A little input - Please
Comments
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Snoopy1995 wrote: »Ban the cheaters so new players don't just peace out when they join one TD.
Well, sadly snoopy or hole-in-one, not everybody who is better than you is a cheater. Just because they get one unreal frag or looks like they always know where you're at doesn't instantly mean they cheat. I was once called a cheater by you and 2K.MVP and then i joined you're team under a different name and was told i suck. So maybe people just have lucky days or scrims or matches doesn't mean they cheat.
P.S. Looking at replays for hours forcing yourself to believe they are cheating probably isn't good for your health and you should find a new excuse for being on the worst team in competitive scene. GGs -
Well, sadly snoopy or hole-in-one, not everybody who is better than you is a cheater. Just because they get one unreal frag or looks like they always know where you're at doesn't instantly mean they cheat. I was once called a cheater by you and 2K.MVP and then i joined you're team under a different name and was told i suck. So maybe people just have lucky days or scrims or matches doesn't mean they cheat.
P.S. Looking at replays for hours forcing yourself to believe they are cheating probably isn't good for your health and you should find a new excuse for being on the worst team in competitive scene. GGs
harsh
but +1 -
Well, sadly snoopy or hole-in-one, not everybody who is better than you is a cheater. Just because they get one unreal frag or looks like they always know where you're at doesn't instantly mean they cheat. I was once called a cheater by you and 2K.MVP and then i joined you're team under a different name and was told i suck. So maybe people just have lucky days or scrims or matches doesn't mean they cheat.
P.S. Looking at replays for hours forcing yourself to believe they are cheating probably isn't good for your health and you should find a new excuse for being on the worst team in competitive scene. GGs
Nah you got it all wrong you have to look at the situation through snoopys eyes
Everyone cheats! -
Well, sadly snoopy or hole-in-one, not everybody who is better than you is a cheater. Just because they get one unreal frag or looks like they always know where you're at doesn't instantly mean they cheat. I was once called a cheater by you and 2K.MVP and then i joined you're team under a different name and was told i suck. So maybe people just have lucky days or scrims or matches doesn't mean they cheat.
P.S. Looking at replays for hours forcing yourself to believe they are cheating probably isn't good for your health and you should find a new excuse for being on the worst team in competitive scene. GGs
I was talking about the cheaters that shoot through walls and respawn in the enemy base. New players would be more likely to quit if they had to deal with that. Why don't you grow a pair and hop off the alt. -
Ellustrial wrote: »Woah woah woah...
This is the best post in this entire thread.
@[GM]Juicebox, focus on Ellustrial's post.
As for my own opinions, I think that hacking is definitely the biggest concern for Z8 right now. I don't know much about how you're handling it, however I have always wondered if Z8 has ever considered having in-game moderators that can ban or block blatant hackers from within the game. These moderators would be sort of a patrol to ban cheaters on the fly. These moderators would preferably be players who have invested heavily into this game, whether it be long time competitive players or people who have purchased a significant amount of ZP. That way these moderators would be more trustworthy since they have something to lose if they abuse their powers.
Furthermore, if you implement a system where these in-game moderators submit live in-game footage (replays just don't cut it most of the time), then the bans could be reviewed and justified. This is similar to the Overwatch system in CSGO, which honestly works extremely well. (http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/overwatch/).
Now, I'd like to address the issue of competition in CF. Don't get me wrong, if anyone loves the competetive side of CF, it's me. However, the reason the competitive scene is dead-ish is because there is no interest in being involved in online events for the majority of the community. The thing is, in games like CSGO, LoL, DotA, etc., they have an incredible amount of national and international tournaments. More players are constantly becoming competitive with hopes of reaching those events. To the average player, watching people compete and actually seeing them on a massive stage is absolutely entertaining and motivating. As a contrast, watching an online match is stale. It's like any mainstream sport, would people rather watch the actual England vs Portugal World Cup Match on TV, or would they rather watch a FIFA simulation on their computer? I know that the concept of huge national or international tournaments is a very difficult one to address, but I believe that it is absolutely vital for them to occur more frequently than 1 time a year as it has been so far.
There are more things I have to say, but these were my top 1s. -
Snoopy1995 wrote: »I was talking about the cheaters that shoot through walls and respawn in the enemy base. New players would be more likely to quit if they had to deal with that. Why don't you grow a pair and hop off the alt.
believe it or not this is my main. just never used the forums because of idiots like you. -
England and Portugal?hammer_mav wrote: »This is the best post in this entire thread.
@[GM]Juicebox, focus on Ellustrial's post.
As for my own opinions, I think that hacking is definitely the biggest concern for Z8 right now. I don't know much about how you're handling it, however I have always wondered if Z8 has ever considered having in-game moderators that can ban or block blatant hackers from within the game. These moderators would be sort of a patrol to ban cheaters on the fly. These moderators would preferably be players who have invested heavily into this game, whether it be long time competitive players or people who have purchased a significant amount of ZP. That way these moderators would be more trustworthy since they have something to lose if they abuse their powers.
Furthermore, if you implement a system where these in-game moderators submit live in-game footage (replays just don't cut it most of the time), then the bans could be reviewed and justified. This is similar to the Overwatch system in CSGO, which honestly works extremely well. (http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/overwatch/).
Now, I'd like to address the issue of competition in CF. Don't get me wrong, if anyone loves the competetive side of CF, it's me. However, the reason the competitive scene is dead-ish is because there is no interest in being involved in online events for the majority of the community. The thing is, in games like CSGO, LoL, DotA, etc., they have an incredible amount of national and international tournaments. More players are constantly becoming competitive with hopes of reaching those events. To the average player, watching people compete and actually seeing them on a massive stage is absolutely entertaining and motivating. As a contrast, watching an online match is stale. It's like any mainstream sport, would people rather watch the actual England vs Portugal World Cup Match on TV, or would they rather watch a FIFA simulation on their computer? I know that the concept of huge national or international tournaments is a very difficult one to address, but I believe that it is absolutely vital for them to occur more frequently than 1 time a year as it has been so far.
There are more things I have to say, but these were my top 1s.
Oranje you silly -
Case 1: Realistyou might be new here. But i'm not. I ran the first successful cf league. Made the ruleset that is currently followed by all leagues. And was until this past year, an advisor for most leagues. So after that, let me start out with probably the only thing i might say on this matter. You are literally the dumbest game manager i've ever come across. After i had ripped saiden in a post (last year?) i never thought i'd meet someone dumber. It saddens me that the canadian education system is this lacking.
Stop with all these bull**** excuses. I've heard it for years in this game. "were rebuilding the community" "were going to get better leagues" "were going to stop hacks" "were going to start lans". It's all bull****, its the same crap thats been spewed for years by you people.
You talk about change all the time, but nothing ever happens except a new zp limited edition ak47holoscopeyolo420redtiger skin comes out. For years issues have plauged this game that have never been acknowledged or fixed by z8. (except for one post by saiden on the matter) this long assed list includues the 125hz issue, the ladder fps bug, insane server lag, insanely awful air reg and reg in general, insanely awful interp, and thats just the tip of the iceberg with this game. You continue to talk of change, yet i've never seen any.
Hell the "competitive" tab still shows "wem coverage" and those awful "official tournaments" that happened what 4 years ago? The photo page doesn't even load anymore. It would take me literally 25 minutes to fix that tab. Seriously give me the admin password for the website and i will fix that tab for you for free within 25 minutes. You are a complete disgrace, you had 6 months to do these things. Don't give me this crap about you being new. I've done research articles for psychological research in way less time then you've had to fix a damned tab on a website.
You may actually be forrest gump's lower iqed brother.
case 2: Optimisthammer_mav wrote: »this is the best post in this entire thread.
@[gm]juicebox, focus on ellustrial's post.
As for my own opinions, i think that hacking is definitely the biggest concern for z8 right now. I don't know much about how you're handling it, however i have always wondered if z8 has ever considered having in-game moderators that can ban or block blatant hackers from within the game. These moderators would be sort of a patrol to ban cheaters on the fly. These moderators would preferably be players who have invested heavily into this game, whether it be long time competitive players or people who have purchased a significant amount of zp. That way these moderators would be more trustworthy since they have something to lose if they abuse their powers.
Furthermore, if you implement a system where these in-game moderators submit live in-game footage (replays just don't cut it most of the time), then the bans could be reviewed and justified. This is similar to the overwatch system in csgo, which honestly works extremely well. (http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/overwatch/).
Now, i'd like to address the issue of competition in cf. Don't get me wrong, if anyone loves the competetive side of cf, it's me. However, the reason the competitive scene is dead-ish is because there is no interest in being involved in online events for the majority of the community. The thing is, in games like csgo, lol, dota, etc., they have an incredible amount of national and international tournaments. More players are constantly becoming competitive with hopes of reaching those events. To the average player, watching people compete and actually seeing them on a massive stage is absolutely entertaining and motivating. As a contrast, watching an online match is stale. It's like any mainstream sport, would people rather watch the actual england vs portugal world cup match on tv, or would they rather watch a fifa simulation on their computer? I know that the concept of huge national or international tournaments is a very difficult one to address, but i believe that it is absolutely vital for them to occur more frequently than 1 time a year as it has been so far.
There are more things i have to say, but these were my top 1s. -
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Seems expensive don't you think?
10k Zp is like 8$ per person, Its not that expensive and is a good starter, Usually on other sites that run tournaments For other games like COD/LOL/Dota the buyin is 12-15$ with a 60% payout 8Team bracket. It usually goes well. I think it would be good for CF and it would help expand the competitive community Of Cf. I see alot of leagues and other random stuff that take to much time in my opinion. These tournaments would only last a couple of hours and would attract more people with decent payouts of course. -
PLatnuimDE wrote: »10k Zp is like 8$ per person, Its not that expensive and is a good starter, Usually on other sites that run tournaments For other games like COD/LOL/Dota the buyin is 12-15$ with a 60% payout 8Team bracket. It usually goes well. I think it would be good for CF and it would help expand the competitive community Of Cf. I see alot of leagues and other random stuff that take to much time in my opinion. These tournaments would only last a couple of hours and would attract more people with decent payouts of course.
My mistake I forgot my medicine this morning
I thought you meant 10k everyday -
PLatnuimDE wrote: »10k Zp is like 8$ per person, Its not that expensive and is a good starter, Usually on other sites that run tournaments For other games like COD/LOL/Dota the buyin is 12-15$ with a 60% payout 8Team bracket. It usually goes well. I think it would be good for CF and it would help expand the competitive community Of Cf. I see alot of leagues and other random stuff that take to much time in my opinion. These tournaments would only last a couple of hours and would attract more people with decent payouts of course.
I have wrestled with this idea of a player buy-in before (most likely ZP) but I am not so sure that the people in this community at the moment would participate in an event with a buy-in.
The only good example of a buy-in event that I can remember was when WOGL ran some sort of P2P event for the first WCG I believe? Obviously that went well because it was WCG with good prizes. The other example went HORRIBLE, when OCG tried to run a P2P event at the beginning of this year. I don't think they had one full team sign up for that event.
Maybe it would be different now, maybe it wouldn't. It's hard to tell with this community. Being that the major events in this version have supplied some form of cash prizes, I'm not sure how well received it would be if the prizes went back to all ZP amounts for these small 1 or 2 day events. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I have wrestled with this idea of a player buy-in before (most likely ZP) but I am not so sure that the people in this community at the moment would participate in an event with a buy-in.
The only good example of a buy-in event that I can remember was when WOGL ran some sort of P2P event for the first WCG I believe? Obviously that went well because it was WCG with good prizes. The other example went HORRIBLE, when OCG tried to run a P2P event at the beginning of this year. I don't think they had one full team sign up for that event.
Maybe it would be different now, maybe it wouldn't. It's hard to tell with this community. Being that the major events in this version have supplied some form of cash prizes, I'm not sure how well received it would be if the prizes went back to all ZP amounts for these small 1 or 2 day events.
First focus on fixing some of the problems that were listed by multiple people. That way you'll have a lot more people participate. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I have wrestled with this idea of a player buy-in before (most likely ZP) but I am not so sure that the people in this community at the moment would participate in an event with a buy-in.
The only good example of a buy-in event that I can remember was when WOGL ran some sort of P2P event for the first WCG I believe? Obviously that went well because it was WCG with good prizes. The other example went HORRIBLE, when OCG tried to run a P2P event at the beginning of this year. I don't think they had one full team sign up for that event.
Maybe it would be different now, maybe it wouldn't. It's hard to tell with this community. Being that the major events in this version have supplied some form of cash prizes, I'm not sure how well received it would be if the prizes went back to all ZP amounts for these small 1 or 2 day events.
We had no idea WEM was coming when we signed up in WOGL. The fee was paid before the announcement was made. -
This isn't at Polleus, it's at Juice.
Ryangi's focusing a lot of pent up crap onto one person, (and without much tact :P) but the general idea is correct I think. Specifically his last paragraph. Most of the "we're trying to fix it" over the years has unfortunately been coming from people who really can't fix anything, i.e. the moderators, or people who then don't fix it, i.e. Z8 Games.
I haven't played in some time, so I can't speak for things like server/ping issues. But I can talk about some of the things I know were issues back then, and from skimming this thread seem to continue to be issues now.
1. Lack of support from Z8 Games.
I'm not talking about ZP prizes, and I'm not talking about hosting LANs. Stuff like that is just throwing money at the problem and expecting it to work itself out. What I AM talking about is vocal support of the competitive community from Z8 Games. The biggest example of the issue was highlighted in Ryangi's post, however there's more to it than just the competitive page. Z8 Games has never really promoted their competitive community to the non-competitive masses that play CF. Hell, I can remember a while ago when their was an international tournament, Z8 had 0 coverage of it. The only threads posted about it were from the community, or from the Mods (on their own initiative). Where were the match announcements? The standings? Hell, you've got a little ticker bar in the game, even just updating that with some information about the event would have been nice.
2. Lack of communication between Z8 Games and the competitive community.
Z8's strategy over the years seems to have been a simple one; assign one guy to communicate with the competitive community, and then forget about them. Don't get me wrong, Saidin was great. He honestly seemed to care a lot about the success of the competitive community. But it never really mattered, because Z8 Games still felt like a stone wall. Yeah, we could raise our voices about issues and there was somebody their to respond, but because the discussions never seemed to have any effect outside of the forums, the logical conclusion was that Z8 just didn't care. The ONE TIME that this wasn't the case was with the huge xfam0usx "red dot theory" debacle. It was apparent that Saidin wasn't the only person who was making the decision about how to handle it, and was the only time that Z8 actually seemed pressured into giving a crap about us. Other than that they just seem to stay out of the way and let whatever guy they have assigned to us handle it.
Both of these things amount to the feeling that Z8 Games just doesn't care about the competitive community. And to be honest, I stopped believing they did a long time ago. You want to change this, you need to start by addressing the two issues I highlighted above. Some suggestions:
- Recognition in places other than the forums. A team recently qualified for an international event? Celebrate them with in-game announcements and banners on the patcher/website. A tournament about to take place? Advertise that ****, either in-game, on the patcher, or on the website. This not only helps make us feel like Z8 gives a damn, but it promotes the competitive community within the casual community. If a casual player reads something a competitive player posts about how good a team is, why should they care? It's just another player. But when Z8 says it, it comes across as "official". It gives it meaning. (You're also reaching out the the huge playerbase who don't even go on the forums.)
- Run weekly "official" tournaments with ZP prizes and potentially ZP buy ins. Alternatively, run a league with monthly or bi-monthly tournaments that awards the winners with entry into said league. Don't just pay somebody else to do it, take a vested interest in the organization and promotion of it. There doesn't even have to be a huge prize at this point, anybody who's still playing CF probably isn't doing it for the money. There just needs to be obvious support from Z8 Games themselves. Yes, cheating is always going to be an issue, but that's a bridge to cross when we actually get to that point (I've already got a few ideas, at least when it comes to regulation within a small group of people).
There's a lot more that could be done, but is just generally unrealistic. Hell, my dream for a competitive client still lives on, though that's just not gonna happen. However, my suggestions above are at least doable, or certainly seem to be from my position. It really boils down to one simple point; Z8 games needs to be proud of its competitive community. These are the people who enjoy playing your game enough that they've become the best at it. I spent 5 years of my life playing CF competitively, I was on one of the four original teams in this game, hell I was a Mod for CF's competitive forums. Not once did I really feel like Z8Games, as a company, gave a crap about developing their competitive scene. Maybe that's not true, but it's certainly how it feels.
I think that's all, I'll add more if it comes to me.
EDIT:appliedlogic wrote: »Everyone will forget about this thread in about a week or so and the game will remain in this state.
This is exactly what ryangi is talking about when he says that it's all the same crap over all these years. I don't blame him for being frustrated, there's a point where you just can't keep believing in what Z8 says anymore. Not with their track record.
There are a lot of issues you can't change, that are built into the way CF works (Ellu touched upon these). But at the end of the day, I don't think those are the things that are the real issue here. I loved playing CF, most of the "issues" I just viewed as mechanics of the game, things that you had to modify your play to account for. Most of the time they're consistent enough to do so.
I want to make it clear, I think CF is, at its core, a fantastic game. I wouldn't have put so much time into it if I didn't think so. The issues here lie outside the game. -
[MOD]Denxi wrote: »This isn't at Polleus, it's at Juice.
1. Lack of support from Z8 Games.
Z8 Games has never really promoted their competitive community to the non-competitive masses that play CF. Hell, I can remember a while ago when their was an international tournament, Z8 had 0 coverage of it. The only threads posted about it were from the community, or from the Mods (on their own initiative). Where were the match announcements? The standings? Hell, you've got a little ticker bar in the game, even just updating that with some information about the event would have been nice.
Absolutely agreed. The amount of actual support the Competitive Community is not a lot. It's the competitive players that drive any competitive style game, and they need to be recognized. There are a lot of tools that we have at our disposal that are not being utilized. Of course, we could always use more tools to make it easier.[MOD]Denxi wrote: »
2. Lack of communication between Z8 Games and the competitive community.
Z8's strategy over the years seems to have been a simple one; assign one guy to communicate with the competitive community, and then forget about them. Don't get me wrong, Saidin was great. He honestly seemed to care a lot about the success of the competitive community. But it never really mattered, because Z8 Games still felt like a stone wall. Yeah, we could raise our voices about issues and there was somebody their to respond, but because the discussions never seemed to have any effect outside of the forums, the logical conclusion was that Z8 just didn't care. The ONE TIME that this wasn't the case was with the huge xfam0usx "red dot theory" debacle. It was apparent that Saidin wasn't the only person who was making the decision about how to handle it, and was the only time that Z8 actually seemed pressured into giving a crap about us. Other than that they just seem to stay out of the way and let whatever guy they have assigned to us handle it.
Both of these things amount to the feeling that Z8 Games just doesn't care about the competitive community. And to be honest, I stopped believing they did a long time ago. You want to change this, you need to start by addressing the two issues I highlighted above. Some suggestions:
- Recognition in places other than the forums. A team recently qualified for an international event? Celebrate them with in-game announcements and banners on the patcher/website. A tournament about to take place? Advertise that ****, either in-game, on the patcher, or on the website. This not only helps make us feel like Z8 gives a damn, but it promotes the competitive community within the casual community. If a casual player reads something a competitive player posts about how good a team is, why should they care? It's just another player. But when Z8 says it, it comes across as "official". It gives it meaning. (You're also reaching out the the huge playerbase who don't even go on the forums.)
Communication runs both ways. I really liked Saidin as well, he taught me a lot, but as far as communication goes, he was fairly tight lipped about what has been going on.
As a company, Z8Games has always taken the easy way out, by passing the buck about the problems to someone else. There was a problem, it was the developer's fault, or the managements fault, or someone else's. At the end of the day this doesn't matter to the players because it amounts to the same thing, Z8Games as a whole company has let them down again.
Z8Games over the years has adopted a policy of keeping things away from the community. This has extended from not just game related policies, but also what we do as a company. The purpose of any company is to cater to it's clients. The players of this game, and especially the competitive players who continue to come back, should be the ones we cater too.[MOD]Denxi wrote: »
- Run weekly "official" tournaments with ZP prizes and potentially ZP buy ins. Alternatively, run a league with monthly or bi-monthly tournaments that awards the winners with entry into said league. Don't just pay somebody else to do it, take a vested interest in the organization and promotion of it. There doesn't even have to be a huge prize at this point, anybody who's still playing CF probably isn't doing it for the money. There just needs to be obvious support from Z8 Games themselves. Yes, cheating is always going to be an issue, but that's a bridge to cross when we actually get to that point (I've already got a few ideas, at least when it comes to regulation within a small group of people).
Because we pay ESG and NESL, they are both official leagues for the game. The issue is what you had stated earlier. Even though we pay for these leagues, we do not do enough to promote them, or to promote their results. Recently, it came to my attention that Carbon and !nstinct just played a match, and yet we did not do enough to cover it, or to give exposure to it.
Running weekly tournaments by only the current staff we have is not yet possible. Hopefully, we can rebuild our company enough to get to a point where it will be, but the best that we can do right now is to give the proper exposure that our current leagues need.[MOD]Denxi wrote: »
EDIT:
This is exactly what ryangi is talking about when he says that it's all the same crap over all these years. I don't blame him for being frustrated, there's a point where you just can't keep believing in what Z8 says anymore. Not with their track record.
There are a lot of issues you can't change, that are built into the way CF works (Ellu touched upon these). But at the end of the day, I don't think those are the things that are the real issue here. I loved playing CF, most of the "issues" I just viewed as mechanics of the game, things that you had to modify your play to account for. Most of the time they're consistent enough to do so.
I want to make it clear, I think CF is, at its core, a fantastic game. I wouldn't have put so much time into it if I didn't think so. The issues here lie outside the game.
Ryangi definitely has valid points, and he's also right. Basically, whatever I say on behalf of Z8Games or the company, would mean very little after all of the years of neglect that this community has had to endure.
So now, the only thing that we can do is to start doing the things we say, and to stop making excuses about why things aren't working. Players don't care about why something doesn't work because at the end of the day, it's that broken thing that is affecting them. What we say about it doesn't matter if it is still not fixed. -
[GM]Juicebox wrote: »Absolutely agreed. The amount of actual support the Competitive Community is not a lot. It's the competitive players that drive any competitive style game, and they need to be recognized. There are a lot of tools that we have at our disposal that are not being utilized. Of course, we could always use more tools to make it easier.
What are you even saying. This paragraph is just as robotic and vague as the impersonal replies you give to support tickets and doesn't even begin to accept responsibility. And it isn't even roboticly generated!
Also, your immature sentence structure and ability to be creative with what you say makes it obvious that you are not the fully flexible, qualified person that your job requires and this deprived and neglected community depends on. You are gay. -
Hes agreeing with Denxi on the lack of recognition¨for the competitive side and reaching the pub side of the game with the competitive things that are happening.stepdadpro wrote: »What are you even saying. This paragraph is just as robotic and vague as the impersonal replies you give to support tickets and doesn't even begin to accept responsibility. And it isn't even roboticly generated!
Also, your immature sentence structure and ability to be creative with what you say makes it obvious that you are not the fully flexible, qualified person that your job requires and this deprived and neglected community depends on. You are gay.
Also that it's the competitive players that drive the competitive scene.
Lacking reading comprehension is no excuse to be rude. If I get it, anyone with English as a first or second language should get it, so I'm guessing you're negative for the sake of negativity. It's not very constructive. -
Hes agreeing with Denxi on the lack of recognition¨for the competitive side and reaching the pub side of the game with the competitive things that are happening.
Also that it's the competitive players that drive the competitive scene.
Lacking reading comprehension is no excuse to be rude. If I get it, anyone with English as a first or second language should get it, so I'm guessing you're negative for the sake of negativity. It's not very constructive.
It is you, my friend, that is lacking insight. I know what he was saying and fully understood the paragraph. I said what I said because his answer was basically a 3rd grade book report conclusion summarizing what everybody already knew and had actually been saying to him this whole time. He literally took what everbody has been saying in their complaints and simply reworded it. He also said in his statement something along the lines of "tools not being used enough" and "using more tools to fix the problem". That is where he got vague and made no progression with what he was saying. We don't know what these "tools" are so what is the point of saying that Z8 has "tools" to work with if those tools are just as obscure as Z8 Games itself? That's a tactic liars use to lose the people they are trying to decieve in a mess of noncorresponding details and force the decieved into becoming so confused that their perception is skewed by the liar's barrage of somewhat relevant, but obscure details. The person being decieved is so focused on figuring out what the deciever is saying that he forgets what he was thinking in the first place. This is what Juicebox is trying to do. He is trying to throw us off by hinting at information he "knows" that we can't necessarily argue with because what he says is so vague that we can't really prove him right or wrong because what he said wasn't really anything meaningful at all.
Yes, me saying he is gay was influenced by negativity I felt at the time but that doesn't automatically suck the validity out of what I said. -
stepdadpro wrote: »I said what I said because his answer was basically a 3rd grade book report conclusion summarizing what everybody already knew and had actually been saying to him this whole time. He literally took what everbody has been saying in their complaints and simply reworded it.
Yes, that is exactly what I did. Rewording something requires comprehension of the situation as a whole. It means that I have looked at both sides of the current situation in the game, and have come to the same conclusion that every competitive player has already reached. It also means that I've also read what everyone else is saying, and that I am taking responsibility for reading it. The reason third-graders make book reports is to show that they've read the book and have some sort of comprehension about it.
This doesn't mean I have all the answers. If you read a few posts back, I've basically admitted that I didn't have an idea of what I was doing. I still don't, which is why I am reading this thread to get ideas as to what needs to be done. I'm also rewording and restating the posts that the community has said, and repeating it to the management of this company, just like a third-grade book report. Unless you'd rather I didn't read this thread, and I didn't do anything about it.stepdadpro wrote: »He also said in his statement something along the lines of "tools not being used enough" and "using more tools to fix the problem". That is where he got vague and made no progression with what he was saying. We don't know what these "tools" are so what is the point of saying that Z8 has "tools" to work with if those tools are just as obscure as Z8 Games itself? That's a tactic liars use to lose the people they are trying to decieve in a mess of noncorresponding details and force the decieved into becoming so confused that their perception is skewed by the liar's barrage of somewhat relevant, but obscure details.
What tools we have: Facebook, In-game banners, News posts, Scrolling Message bar in game, Forums, Twitter, marketing.
What tools we've been using to promote or re-build the competitive community: None. The posts by GMs (including me) in the competitive community basically amount to either announcements or statements about announcements that need to made. This means that we've never actually taken a vested interest in the competitive community as a whole.
What tools we don't have, but will need: Competitive website, player recognition systems, Clan Site, dedicated competitive server that restricts weapons and game modes, and probably a lot more.stepdadpro wrote: »The person being decieved is so focused on figuring out what the deciever is saying that he forgets what he was thinking in the first place. This is what Juicebox is trying to do. He is trying to throw us off by hinting at information he "knows" that we can't necessarily argue with because what he says is so vague that we can't really prove him right or wrong because what he said wasn't really anything meaningful at all.
I hope that what I've stated above is pretty clear. Also, just in case you had missed what I said earlier:[GM]Juicebox wrote: »Communication runs both ways. I really liked Saidin as well, he taught me a lot, but as far as communication goes, he was fairly tight lipped about what has been going on.
As a company, Z8Games has always taken the easy way out, by passing the buck about the problems to someone else. There was a problem, it was the developer's fault, or the managements fault, or someone else's. At the end of the day this doesn't matter to the players because it amounts to the same thing, Z8Games as a whole company has let them down again.
Z8Games over the years has adopted a policy of keeping things away from the community. This has extended from not just game related policies, but also what we do as a company. The purpose of any company is to cater to it's clients. The players of this game, and especially the competitive players who continue to come back, should be the ones we cater too.stepdadpro wrote: »Yes, me saying he is gay was influenced by negativity I felt at the time but that doesn't automatically suck the validity out of what I said.
You're right, and you made valid points, especially about disclosure and transparency. We should be keeping our players aware of things that affect them, and the last thing that we should be doing is to try and confuse everyone.
Obviously there are things that we cannot say or things that we cannot do, but we should also be doing the things that we need to do. Which, frankly, we haven't.
This community is still very alive. This thread is proof of that. Even if half of it is showing me how much I'm lacking. -
[GM]Juicebox wrote: »
Yes and no. I remember 2 years ago during the week alpha would fill up as well as bravo in about 50-80%. Both were full on the weekends + charlie had a decent amount of people playing on it. But then look at EU or ES versions of this game. Hardly any people play them compared to our severs in 2014 (not even close to what was happening here in 2012). Goes to show that this game has a lot of potential. Either way, I really like the game, I think it's very possible to make the game as alive as it used to be as long as you take action. -
stepdadpro wrote: »It is you, my friend, that is lacking insight. I know what he was saying and fully understood the paragraph. I said what I said because his answer was basically a 3rd grade book report conclusion summarizing what everybody already knew and had actually been saying to him this whole time. He literally took what everbody has been saying in their complaints and simply reworded it. He also said in his statement something along the lines of "tools not being used enough" and "using more tools to fix the problem". That is where he got vague and made no progression with what he was saying. We don't know what these "tools" are so what is the point of saying that Z8 has "tools" to work with if those tools are just as obscure as Z8 Games itself? That's a tactic liars use to lose the people they are trying to decieve in a mess of noncorresponding details and force the decieved into becoming so confused that their perception is skewed by the liar's barrage of somewhat relevant, but obscure details. The person being decieved is so focused on figuring out what the deciever is saying that he forgets what he was thinking in the first place. This is what Juicebox is trying to do. He is trying to throw us off by hinting at information he "knows" that we can't necessarily argue with because what he says is so vague that we can't really prove him right or wrong because what he said wasn't really anything meaningful at all.
Yes, me saying he is gay was influenced by negativity I felt at the time but that doesn't automatically suck the validity out of what I said.
Blessed! -
Alright, before we get carried away here. The cheaters are back. Do something about it before people that came back to the game in the past week leave again.
Mav said something about it before and I always thought that it would be a great idea. Give me in-game banning rights. Yeah, it sounds a little crazy but here's the thing. You're risking absolutely nothing. I'm only going to ban the obvious cheaters, either using shotguns and killing people through walls or just straight up aimbotting. If there's even slightest doubt, I'm not going to ban that person. I would document every cheater and save the replay in case someone complains. Come on now, you've got absolutely nothing to lose. You can go ahead and ban my account I spent $2k+ on. I pub at least an hour or two, sometimes more depending on how much time I have. The game is becoming impossible to play again, you have to do something about it asap. -
stepdadpro wrote: »What are you even saying. This paragraph is just as robotic and vague as the impersonal replies you give to support tickets and doesn't even begin to accept responsibility. And it isn't even roboticly generated!
Also, your immature sentence structure and ability to be creative with what you say makes it obvious that you are not the fully flexible, qualified person that your job requires and this deprived and neglected community depends on. You are gay.
The sentence made perfect sense. -
Give me in-game banning rights. Yeah, it sounds a little crazy but here's the thing. You're risking absolutely nothing. I'm only going to ban the obvious cheaters, either using shotguns and killing people through walls or just straight up aimbotting.
like giving a kid a gun....
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