Brainstorm to make the Competitive scene grow
Comments
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alright well i actually wanted good realistic ideas that would improve the community, so denxi or bruce, pretty please.
or someone else who can construct a few sentences, by all means.
Says the guy who doesn't capitalize his sentences. Step it up Patrik. -
...make a new one or send me a pm and i'll make a thread (or not, the back and forth discussions probably aren't necessary just yet)
You know, I made a thread a LOOOOOONG time ago that I think had some good (though perhaps impossible considering the amount of control z8 has over in-game stuff) ideas:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=53800 (original thread, 4k views)
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=54872
Some of this is irrelevant...most of it is perhaps, but stuff like names showing up through smoke, the crazy long round timer, friendly fire...those are still valid points that would raise the skill ceiling on this game a bit.
Of course, the thread was made before WCG, so most of the crap is out the window since we have to try to stay close to the other versions for international play.
Regardless, all z8 can do is out of game stuff really, and since they can't officially run a tournament that uses a 3rd party program like bandicam, we're kind of sol.
They can promote OUR community run tournaments, give (or discount) prizes, etc.
We are the minority though, and while it would be nice for z8 to bend over backwards, from a business standpoint it just doesn't make sense. They can do more, but we can't expect them to move mountains.
z8 needs to do WEBSITE stuff, thats where they CAN do more. Its hard to ask them to run tournaments now when cheating is so widespread. -
We need to create more tournaments to compete in that are widely advertised to promote growth in the competitive scene, while at the same time these tournaments need to be good enough to help alienate the cheaters.
We then need more tournaments with descent cash prizes not zp prizes cash prizes to help promote a more competitive environment.
We need a group of people that are willing to get better at casting so that we can eventually have some good media floating around to further the growth of the competitive scene, im not talking about the joke of a cast logic has been doing Im talking about someone actually making an effort.
We need to stop making cancerous threads and start creating more original content in terms of guides to help lift new teams.
We need to stop creating cancerous two week teams and start promoting the growth of long term teams. -
appliedlogic wrote: »...im not talking about the joke of a cast...Im talking about someone actually making an effort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiIQ_vc2Ahk /skip to like 2:00
As far as tournaments and stuff, its impossible. Until we have GOOD a/c that will give the community confidence, it will never ever happen.
Consider the following: You scrim a team and get your sht slapped in. You win a round or two and thats on gunfighting skills alone.
Are you more inclined to say "Ahh brah they cheat" or "Damn they were really good and we need to step it up."
You cannot just throw money at a game and make it to grow. z8 can host another tournament, another 5 tournaments, but until people stop thinking "cheat" and start thinking "skill" this game will never grow.
I don't have any suggestions to make, f2p games are full of cheats. CS has ESEA. We will never have ESEA.
LANs? Haha! The average age of this community just isn't able to travel. Imagine we had a lan with a $10,000 grand prize. How many teams would make it? 16 year old Joey tells his parents "Mom, I'm going to travel 1000+ miles to go and play video games."
You know what would happen? Teams from OTHER games would go "o sht leggo". They go to the lan, then quit the game afterwards...thats ineffective.
How would we even determine who gets to play in that tournament? Online qualifiers? See: Anti-cheat problem.
It is what it is. What can WE do? Encourage the community to come competitive, give ourselves as much exposure as possible, and play a respectful game.
What can z8 do? Promote us on website or in-game, help with prizes for community run tournaments/cups/leagues.
I wish CF had LANs, and who knows, maybe I'm wrong and this LAN will be a huge success. Maybe we'll have a huge turnout, a friendly turnout, a chance to show z8 just what the community is capable of.
It's all up to you. -
denxi i love you and i love root beer. is this a match made in heaven or what?
See, we just have to make a healthy serving of root beer mandatory in the diet of competitive crossfire players. Immediate improvement.moderating this section is extremely time-demanding, and those mods who have the time, generally avoid it for other reasons.
but i'm sure lack of moderation isn't the reason the competitive community is in the shape its in, and "make me mod" isn't what you need the most.
I can't agree with this. You want a forced attitude adjustment, proper modding is the way to go. -
Ok so other suggestions more coding wise from Z8.
This is probably out of reach and unrealistic, but w/e. I made a thread ages ago based on this subject, but I can't find it for reference.
Create a team system!
Teams would have:
- Smaller roster limit (8 - 15 IMO. Wanna earn money, start it as a base 8, ZP upgrades to 15)
- Server similar to clan server (Implementing the fixes discussed by Bruce in his old thread, possibly some other ones too.) Server should have both the option for public scrim rooms and private scrim rooms.
- Players transfer limits (as in I can only join a new team on a cooldown of X duration). Possibly one a month? Not only this, but newly created teams might have X waiting period before being allowed scrim server access. W/e the limitation, one has to be in place. Yes, alts might become an issue, no idea right now how to deal with that.
Lost my train of thought, can't remember what I was building to, but that's the essential idea. -
You cannot just throw money at a game and make it to grow. z8 can host another tournament, another 5 tournaments, but until people stop thinking "cheat" and start thinking "skill" this game will never grow.
This is a huge point. Other games' communities have a much more active shaming process in the community than ours, or at least it sure as hell seems that way. People have been caught cheating on multiple occasions in CF, and people STILL allow them on their teams. I'd love to be boycotting those teams, but the community is (at least was before I stopped playing) too sparsely populated to be avoiding any team who plays with a repeat offender.
Z8 taking a more active part in the banning of competitive community members would be great, except for:
a) I'm not sure how accurate they'd be, or whether they'd be willing to deal with the backlash of a mistake. I'm thinking back to the Oz issue. They'd have to be pretty invested to keep an accurate track record, however they'd have to constantly be justifying their bans, something which I can see them being uncomfortable with.
A way around this would be to simply have someone analyze any bust vids posted by the community, and then decide whether the where legitimate evidence or not. They wouldn't BAN off this, but they'd allow or delete the thread based off of this. This would promote (hopefully) community shaming of cheaters. One important thing would be to make sure it's understood that one video does usually not give you a definite answer on the legitimacy of a player, it takes multiple videos from multiple games to build up enough "evidence."
The only trouble with this is that it both require someone qualified enough on Z8's end to make these calls, as well as an understanding of my last point from the community. Maybe making SOME COMP PLAYERS WHO KNOW THEIR **** MOD, AND HAVING THEM REGULATE IT.''
b) ****ing forgot my second thing. I'll edit if I remember -_- -
The problem with that is z8 views "bust" videos as hackusations which forbidden on the forums. That rule will not be changed in the foreseeable future. If a player is cheating just report the player, once they get banned they have to use another account. Then that player has to explain to their friends what happened. If there was a little bit of maturity in the community it would help your cause a lot more.
Proper modding. Ok, I could spend literally hours infracting and banning alts. But that isnt the root of the problem. Its the "cool" kids that troll all day, in and out of game. They are whats wrong with your community. -
ill be the one straight out and say it, cheating on alts in pubs/inner scrims/or even general scrims is fun, you play the game to have fun, you have all the right to have as much fun in the game as you want, but the consequences is your responsibility.But once I go on my main its all legit from that point on, its just the way the game plays, people do it to be "cool" yeah but some people just do it to fck around. The thing that gets me ****ed off the most is that teamates dont know that their teamate is cheating, and some of them dont have any balls to ask them to record AND upload. People that cheat on their main account thats in a team is just upright dumb.
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[MOD]Iceman wrote: »The problem with that is z8 views "bust" videos as hackusations which forbidden on the forums. That rule will not be changed in the foreseeable future.
Because?[MOD]Iceman wrote: »If a player is cheating just report the player, once they get banned they have to use another account. Then that player has to explain to their friends what happened. If there was a little bit of maturity in the community it would help your cause a lot more.
You don't understand. Without public shaming and public evidence, it is stupidly easily for someone with the simplest of verbal/social skills to talk their way out of any social repercussions from the majority of the community. Without someone publicly pooping all over them, there is no way to stop them coming back with 0 consequences.
Z8 can't even keep Tasty banned off the forums. We cannot depend on Z8 to do anything about the cheaters. The most we can hope for is that someone with power understands the basic concept of social shaming, and can accept implementation of it.[MOD]Iceman wrote: »Proper modding. Ok, I could spend literally hours infracting and banning alts. But that isnt the root of the problem. Its the "cool" kids that troll all day, in and out of game. They are whats wrong with your community.
Waiting for a thread to get hugely popular before dealing with the problem is not proper modding. Proper modding of the comp section requires suppression of the ideas and attitude. A delayed response is completely useless, there is no suppression going on. -
ill be the one straight out and say it, cheating on alts in pubs/inner scrims/or even general scrims is fun, you play the game to have fun, you have all the right to have as much fun in the game as you want, but the consequences is your responsibility.But once I go on my main its all legit from that point on, its just the way the game plays, people do it to be "cool" yeah but some people just do it to fck around. The thing that gets me ****ed off the most is that teamates dont know that their teamate is cheating, and some of them dont have any balls to ask them to record AND upload. People that cheat on their main account thats in a team is just upright dumb.
Cheating in a competitive environment is not fun unless you are insecure about your normal skill level. There is an argument for cheating in public, casual games, and an even bigger one for private, fun games, but if you think that wasting the time of 9 other people is fun, just because you get to **** all over your opponents in a PRACTICE match, you're an idiot. -
Cheating in a competitive environment is not fun unless you are insecure about your normal skill level. There is an argument for cheating in public, casual games, and an even bigger one for private, fun games, but if you think that wasting the time of 9 other people is fun, just because you get to **** all over your opponents in a PRACTICE match, you're an idiot.
Im sorry I shoud've re-worded my statement. Cheating and LETTING YOUR TEAM know is whats fun. Hiding it and ****ing people off is not fun to anyone, I agree with you. But if your team knows you're cheating on an alt, you can haul ass and be as blatant as you feel like, whether the opponents decide to leave or not is their choice. -
Cheating in a competitive environment is not fun unless you are insecure about your normal skill level. There is an argument for cheating in public, casual games, and an even bigger one for private, fun games, but if you think that wasting the time of 9 other people is fun, just because you get to **** all over your opponents in a PRACTICE match, you're an idiot.
Another thing, its not about being insecure about your normal skill level in the case I'm describing, people that cheat on mains might be insecure and all but what I'm trying to say is that people like to haul ass and have some fun. They like the adrenaline rush to **** off players online in a video game. Whatever puts a smile on their face, you shouldn't judge them, they take full responsibility over what can happen. -
Another thing, its not about being insecure about your normal skill level in the case I'm describing, people that cheat on mains might be insecure and all but what I'm trying to say is that people like to haul ass and have some fun. They like the adrenaline rush to **** off players online in a video game. Whatever puts a smile on their face, you shouldn't judge them, they take full responsibility over what can happen.
you get an adrenaline rush from ****ing off players? that's ridiculous, and yes players who cheat in scrims are insecure. -
Another thing, its not about being insecure about your normal skill level in the case I'm describing, people that cheat on mains might be insecure and all but what I'm trying to say is that people like to haul ass and have some fun. They like the adrenaline rush to **** off players online in a video game. Whatever puts a smile on their face, you shouldn't judge them, they take full responsibility over what can happen.
Like I said, if someone finds enjoyment in destroying people who are playing for the purpose of practicing (that's what a scrim is), then they need to get their priorities straight. Take that **** to a pub game if all you want is the killing pixels rush, it has 0 place in a competitive environment. -
Like I said, if someone finds enjoyment in destroying people who are playing for the purpose of practicing (that's what a scrim is), then they need to get their priorities straight. Take that **** to a pub game if all you want is the killing pixels rush, it has 0 place in a competitive environment.
You guys are brainwashed by these cheaters, you legit players are literally brainwashed. You think just because a person is cheating in a video game he needs to get his priorities straight?
You have the view point of a legit player which is why you dont understand. Lemme ask you a question, whats more fun, Cheating in a pub or in a scrim? You talking about killing pixels while the so called "practice" you are doing is killing pixels as well. Practice is fun for you, cheating is fun for the cheaters. -
Like I said, if someone finds enjoyment in destroying people who are playing for the purpose of practicing (that's what a scrim is), then they need to get their priorities straight. Take that **** to a pub game if all you want is the killing pixels rush, it has 0 place in a competitive environment.
and you take a scrim as practice? are you kidding me , me and my team all we do is scrim, we fck around, nobody is practicing and yet its still this so called "scrim". Yeah we might get serious at times, but it aint practice its just getting more serious from what we previously were which was just running through people with knives and proving the dumbness of the players in a scrim. -
Waiting for a thread to get hugely popular before dealing with the problem is not proper modding. Proper modding of the comp section requires suppression of the ideas and attitude. A delayed response is completely useless, there is no suppression going on.
are you asking for 24/7 supervision of one specific forum section because the competitive players can't engage in a normal discussion?
can't suppress if nobody is watching, and we can't have someone always watching. -
You guys are brainwashed by these cheaters, you legit players are literally brainwashed. You think just because a person is cheating in a video game he needs to get his priorities straight?
You have the view point of a legit player which is why you dont understand. Lemme ask you a question, whats more fun, Cheating in a pub or in a scrim? You talking about killing pixels while the so called "practice" you are doing is killing pixels as well. Practice is fun for you, cheating is fun for the cheaters.
I'm not getting enjoyment out of the act of killing pixels, as you said the cheater is, but I'm getting enjoyment in partaking in a challenge. In improving. Tell me why cheating in a scrim is more fun than cheating in a pub. Because if you can provide a reason for that, you'll also be providing evidence for your own insecurities when it comes to skill.
Although I have a good grasp on the concept, I've never been good at explaining it. All I can tell you is that if you value the act of beating someone else over the act of beating yourself, then you should probably choose a different avenue of entertainment than competitive X.and you take a scrim as practice? are you kidding me , me and my team all we do is scrim, we fck around, nobody is practicing and yet its still this so called "scrim". Yeah we might get serious at times, but it aint practice its just getting more serious from what we previously were which was just running through people with knives and proving the dumbness of the players in a scrim.
Then you're wasting your opponents time. I'm not saying this can't be fun, but if you aren't informing the opposing team beforehand then all you're doing is creating a terrible environment for them to improve. -
are you asking for 24/7 supervision of one specific forum section because the competitive players can't engage in a normal discussion?
can't suppress if nobody is watching, and we can't have someone always watching.
people think mods are entitled to see everything and anything involved with the forums, they don't realize the actual amount of forum support you guys have. Just like in the real world, you notice the bad outcomes much more than the good outcomes. -
we can't have someone always watching.
Obviously not. But is it out of the question to have somebody check in every 30 minutes? Because not even that is happening.
Countless times I've been able to watch threads, over the time of up to (sometimes even over) 2 days, go completely to personal attacks. This is not an isolated event, this is (or at least was) consistent. -
I'm not getting enjoyment out of the act of killing pixels, as you said the cheater is, but I'm getting enjoyment in partaking in a challenge. In improving. Tell me why cheating in a scrim is more fun than cheating in a pub. Because if you can provide a reason for that, you'll also be providing evidence for your own insecurities when it comes to skill.
Although I have a good grasp on the concept, I've never been good at explaining it. All I can tell you is that if you value the act of beating someone else over the act of beating yourself, then you should probably choose a different avenue of entertainment than competitive X.
Then you're wasting your opponents time. I'm not saying this can't be fun, but if you aren't informing the opposing team beforehand then all you're doing is creating a terrible environment for them to improve.
as a matter of fact , sometimes the opponents do get informed about the cheating, but do they take action? no.
And if all im doing is walling, dont you get more satisfaction from killing me than killing a normal legit player. It can be considered more practice if i have on basic walls and some other small stuff.
"Tell me why cheating in a scrim is more fun than cheating in a pub. Because if you can provide a reason for that, you'll also be providing evidence for your own insecurities when it comes to skill."
That doesn't make sense, ill be providing evidence for my own insecurities?no ill just fill you in on why cheating in a scrim is more fun than cheating in a pub.
So you , the legit player is all ready for practice. The cheater is all ready to **** people off in a video game, his goal is to make you angry. If he loses the game, he gets mad, but that rarely happens. At the end of the scrim, chances are he has a smile of his face, and you are fcking ****ed. Who won?the cheater, whether or not he won the scrim, he beat you mentally. He goes to sleep laughing and you go to sleep with an average/****ed off face. Maybe the problem is not to keep pointing out these cheaters. Pointing out cheaters and complaining makes them want to do it more. Leave it alone, theyll get bored of it.
That can be a possible fix to the issue.
"Although I have a good grasp on the concept, I've never been good at explaining it. All I can tell you is that if you value the act of beating someone else over the act of beating yourself, then you should probably choose a different avenue of entertainment than competitive X."
In a competitive community, offtopic with the cheaters now, you aim to win. you aim TO BEAT THE OTHER OPPONENT. you aim TO BE BETTER THAN THEM. how does your quote even make sense? competitive gaming is all about having the desire to beat someone else. In anything you do, competition is having the desire to be on top. -
"Tell me why cheating in a scrim is more fun than cheating in a pub. Because if you can provide a reason for that, you'll also be providing evidence for your own insecurities when it comes to skill."
That doesn't make sense, ill be providing evidence for my own insecurities?no ill just fill you in on why cheating in a scrim is more fun than cheating in a pub.
So you , the legit player is all ready for practice. The cheater is all ready to **** people off in a video game, his goal is to make you angry. If he loses the game, he gets mad, but that rarely happens. At the end of the scrim, chances are he has a smile of his face, and you are fcking ****ed. Who won?the cheater, whether or not he won the scrim, he beat you mentally. He goes to sleep laughing and you go to sleep with an average/****ed off face. Maybe the problem is not to keep pointing out these cheaters. Pointing out cheaters and complaining makes them want to do it more. Leave it alone, theyll get bored of it.
That can be a possible fix to the issue.
Oh so you're going to go this route then. Fine, it just means I don't have to type as much.
If you (I specifically mean YOU, not the royal you, but you, the person I'm typing to. That is the YOU I was using when I posed the initial question) find pleasure in the pain of others, and don't see anything wrong with that, then I have no response to you other than to hope your life improves.In a competitive community, offtopic with the cheaters now, you aim to win. you aim TO BEAT THE OTHER OPPONENT. you aim TO BE BETTER THAN THEM. how does your quote even make sense? competitive gaming is all about having the desire to beat someone else. In anything you do, competition is having the desire to be on top.
If you're defining your skill by other people, you are not a true competitor. I'm not going to argue this, it's something for you to figure out by yourself. But it's the truth. -
Oh so you're going to go this route then. Fine, it just means I don't have to type as much.
If you (I specifically mean YOU, not the royal you, but you, the person I'm typing to. That is the YOU I was using when I posed the initial question) find pleasure in the pain of others, and don't see anything wrong with that, then I have no response to you other than to hope your life improves.
See thats why you have trouble comprehending from your viewpoint, I dont have the pleasure in the pain of others, as a matter of fact I feel sorrow for every person that feels pain that ive seen through my life. More so, I feel more pain for animals. You are saying because I cheat in video games, and make EVERYONE LAUGH in mumble, that my life will turn around wrong. Blind man just blind of the issue.
If you're defining your skill by other people, you are not a true competitor. I'm not going to argue this, it's something for you to figure out by yourself. But it's the truth.
See the thing is , I dont need to figure out anything, im not the one blind of the issue, you are. The truth hurts especially when you dont know the true meaning of what you're saying. Competitors have statistics, look at counter strike all these statistics that define each player in ESEA, people want to be on top. I cant believe you are blind of what competition even is.
Im ending this, no point in arguing with people that dont have the desire to listen to anyone and still babble from their own view point. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe.
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![[Denxi]](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/0/navatar_2018000.gif){kind=avatar}
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