Serious discussion - What do you think? What do you want?
Comments
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Let's just summarize my point into a paragraph because I can write an essay about this.
Polleus, stability is going to be the biggest challenge with ESG. As all of us know, people constantly leave teams and teams die over and over (been there, done that). The main problem is not how ESG wants to structure their league but the players themselves. Players leave teams and teams are forced into forfeiting every game because of a loss (really?...). Personally, I have and still believe that the players need to mature and if a player has a dedicated group of guys, stick through it and continue (again, it will be hard to find those players).
Whichever decision ESG chooses, that won't affect anything with the stability. People just need to shut up and cut their ego because frankly me and probably 70% (random figure) of the community just ignore them and are fed up with how players treat each other in this game. -
Though I'm not much of a competitive player...
Organize it into a 3 divisions; A, B, and the Amateur division
A, the top division of course and the potential to go on in other leagues. Money Prizes and Sponsorships and all that jazz.
B, the lower division; professional, and the top reward is relegation to Division A.
and the Amateur Division; where everyone can play for the fun of it, or begin their ascent upwards. Top reward is relegation to Division B. Most low-level tourneys would be hosted at the Amateur Division.
Or you can have a half-half season, like the Argentina Primera Division's Apertura and Clausura system, where in this case, there are 20 teams, and it is divided into two tournaments with 19 games, one game against each opponent. So some serious rank talk here.
Really now that I'm stuck in soccer thoughts, why not have a system to other sport leagues? Instead of imitating e-gaming leagues, we continue the traditional sporting league's timetables or something.
I think I went a little off-tangent here... but I hope I gave some thoughts on something
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Alrighty, I haven't written a WoT [wall of text] in a while. In the interest of the competitive community, here goes nothing.
After Launch
Don't, I repeat, don't, separate teams into divisions off the bat. All it would be is bias and agony over why or why not a team wasn't invited to the "P" equivalent division. Personally, it's just too much work for you to explain to them that you haven't seen them play in Echo 8. Also, all dividing teams into divisions would do is invite teams to play in a "professional" division based off of what you know about them, and not about what they've done. Basically, inviting any team to join would make for a long, harder to manage league. If you invite a few elite teams that you know will co-operate, it will be much easier to manage. Throw that in with a working anti-cheat, and you have a hit waiting to happen.
Alternatively, create an invite only 1st league, not even called season one. Call it something along the lines if "Launch League". Basically, teams will apply [that's right not by invite] for a shot in the launch league. Players will have to apply to something as follows:- Team Name: Team RAZZLEDAZZ
- Team Roster I]please include competitive experience and achievements[/I:
Player A - [league experience]
Player B - [league experience]
Player C - [league experience]
Player D - [league experience]
Player E - [league experience]
Player F - [league experience]
Player G - [league experience] - Reason why team should be accepted into the Launch League:
Oh, we're a competitive team, and we've been playing CF for X amount of years. We've won WOGL-P Y times, and we've gone to WCG 20XX. Additionally, we're active, scrimming and practicing every night since our date of creation; Dec. 12, 2011.
- Division A
-Team A
-Team B
-Team C
-Team D - Division B
-Team E
-Team F
-Team G
-Team H - .. and so on
The playoffs will also be a big determining factor as to the schedules for the first season. First place will be favoured more [in the case of Byes, not for league administration; PLEASE], than eighth place, who will most likely have the less lenient schedule.
The remaining eight teams will have first choice at the open league, and will be favoured the same as the playoff victors, in the order in which they placed.
Beginning of Seasons
This is where it gets simple. Now that you have your eight teams to place in the "P" division, there's nothing you should do to change it unless in the circumstance that one team dies or drops out of the league. In that case, the highest ranking team from the playoff that follows them will take their place. There will be three divisions, Professional division, Open division, and Open Cash division. They will tier as highest tier, middle tier, and lower tier respectively.
Professional Division
This is your professional division; it will be where the titans battle it out. This is where most of your prize money pool lays, and the goal for everybody else. As with previous leagues, this is the holy grail of the game. It will be what defines you, and what hypes up the league for others. This league will obviously be favoured by the administrators and community than any other division in the league due to the best of the best playing. The rules will be strict, and action will be harsh. There will be no leniency. If you are caught cheating, it is no-questions asked, banned. Actions of a player will not affect a team, but the team will not be able to replace said player. Actions such as disrespect will be dealt with strictly as well. Also, disputes would be limited.
Open Division
As with any other league, there is a "open" division in which players who could not make it to the pros can play. It will model the professional division, but with more lenient rules. Players can dispute matches more due to the diminished trust factor [if you allow the top teams, you trust that they will follow rules]. If you let any team under the sun get in, you'll never know what their ethics are. Remember, you're letting anyone in until a cap of probably a minimum of 16 teams and a maximum of 32 teams. Rules model Professional Division.
Open Cash Division
Same ethics as the Open Division, but with one exception. CASH weaponry are allowed with the exception of some which will be to the league's discretion. Characters and items will NOT be allowed due to their physical appearances [SPOPs seem smaller than regular characters, but are the same hitbox-wise]. The prize pool will be smaller, and there will only be a limit of 16 teams, due to the lessened interest from the competitive community.
How to move from division to division
Open Cash Division -> Open Division
The winner of the Open Cash Division has the option to move to the Open division; but it is not necessarily a prize, but an ability to register prior to public registry. Open Cash cannot move to Professional without going through Open Division or without administrative consent.
Open Division -> Professional Division
The winner of Open will be able to move up to Professional. The loser of Professional [last place] is forced down to Open with the ability to register prior to public registry. If any teams die, but have a higher statistical ranking than the last place team, they in turn take last place. If any team misses a quarter of their league matches, they are auto-last placed. That means even if Team B has an undefeated season, but die and miss the last 4 games [assuming 16 game season], they will be made last place unless in situations in which administration will say otherwise. If multiple place teams die, the top teams from Open [as judged from playoffs] will move up to take their spot.
Professional Division -> Open Division / Open Cash Division
Professional Division teams have the right to move to any league they wish at any given time with the ability to register prior.
Closing thoughts
Teams should be stable, if they have the guts to play in a professional division. If teams decide to get into a professional division and miss out on a chance to win a massive grand prize by splitting up, may I ask, "Why are they even in a professional league?" It seems that they deserve to not win money if they are going to break up and not stick it through until the season. Teams will die eventually, but they should have the, and excuse my language, balls, to stick it out a season and die at the end. -
but you are the one that said people don't get better from playing matches.
Of course they get better from playing matches, but that doesn't mean a match is for practice.
I don't know how to explain what I'm thinking, really. Basically what Denxi and I argued for a bit, matches are a totally different mentality from scrims. League experience wins matches, the thing is only a couple of teams actually have league experience, and I mean TEAMS have league experience, not players with experience.
In that sense most of the players will be on an even playing field, with scrim practice being the only real practice they have, and what will make or break the team in the match.
Once every has started to play leagues and starts to get into the feel of it you are absolutely right, but that is the future, and as it stands right now most of the teams in Crossfire aren't exactly stable. Sure they have been together for more than 2 weeks, great, but the team composition is terrible and they have no teamwork.
Individual skill will win out until they begin to improve as a team unit. Once that happens league experience COMBINED with individual skill and teamwork wins. -
Datkidddddd wrote: »didn't read what all you said hi. but it seems to me like your saying only certain teams can get into this "launch tourney"
They apply, the admin team choose the best candidates for P, and let them battle it out in a test league. 1. It let's you test your anticheat; 2. It gives you something to start with for P. -
They apply, the admin team choose the best candidates for P, and let them battle it out.
very biased imo. Team X can do better than Team Z on a certain map and team Z can do better than team X on another. It comes down to actually playing a game rather than being picked out due to the opinions any of the admins may have on a certain team. -
They apply, the admin team choose the best candidates for P, and let them battle it out in a test league. 1. It let's you test your anticheat; 2. It gives you something to start with for P.
i'm not understanding why the admins choose.
how about every team plays in one mesh of teams for a season or 2, whoever places well through out those 2 seasons would qualify for 'P' in the next season, ones that dont place so well, don't. -
Datkidddddd wrote: »i'm not understanding why the admins choose.
how about every team plays in one mesh of teams for a season or 2, whoever places well through out those 2 seasons would qualify for 'P' in the next season, ones that dont place so well, don't.
having two seasons to determine placement is not a bad idea actually. tally up the points after two seasons and the top X amount of teams go to P -
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Muffin. This game is undoubtedly different from games like 1.6/Source/COD4 etc.
You don't need teamwork to play good. 5 superb individuals with excellent shots + good gamesense would be able to be a top team. Teamwork is rarely used, other than in making calls (correct ones), and when you use a productive bait. -
Letting teams play 2 seasons before placement in taking the easy way out, and a huge waste of time. You can start the placement right away and under 4 weeks have a defined group for professional/premier/invite/main status teams. Using group play or single/double elimination and bo3-bo7 match-ups, you can do more in 2-4 weeks then in 2 seasons (4+ months) of league play.
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Muffin. This game is undoubtedly different from games like 1.6/Source/COD4 etc.
You don't need teamwork to play good. 5 superb individuals with excellent shots + good gamesense would be able to be a top team. Teamwork is rarely used, other than in making calls (correct ones), and when you use a productive bait.
I'm fully aware, that is why I said scrims are all that matter RIGHT NOW.
In time the competitive scene will grow, and develop, and it will start to really become more teamwork oriented.
However as it stands teams that DO have teamwork, absolute SH*T on teams that are individualistic. That's why Hammertime and LL went to Korea, and the others didn't. -
I'm fully aware, that is why I said scrims are all that matter RIGHT NOW.
In time the competitive scene will grow, and develop, and it will start to really become more teamwork oriented.
However as it stands teams that DO have teamwork, absolute SH*T on teams that are individualistic. That's why Hammertime and LL went to Korea, and the others didn't
I have a COMPLETELY different opinion about that, I don't believe that'll ever happen. But you never know
EDIT: HT is pretty much individual skilled players bro.. Some teamwork, but not really... -
Letting teams play 2 seasons before placement in taking the easy way out, and a huge waste of time. You can start the placement right away and under 4 weeks have a defined group for professional/premier/invite/main status teams. Using group play or single/double elimination and bo3-bo7 match-ups, you can do more in 2-4 weeks then in 2 seasons (4+ months) of league play.
You do have a point, if you want to sort teams mainly by just skill. The thought here is to build stability along with skill in planning for a long-term, successful league. You can't build stability in picking teams from cups over 2-4 weeks that don't last through a whole season for a "P" division. You have to first sort through the teams willing to stick it out from the teams not willing to stick it out.
Skill is only one factor in placement, there is so much more than just skill. Building an upper division in 2-4 weeks? That's short-term thinking, not long-term thinking. An upper division should be more than who can win in a few short cups. It should be about conduct, player and team stability, skill, and a myriad of other aspects that should define a "Main" division that will last and promote the highest amount of competition not just for 1 season, but for many seasons. -
I don't get where you're getting information that HT has no chemistry.
I mean, Garrett and Hunter live with each other.. They play as a team, you don't see anyone on that team carrying, nor do you see anyone on that team that is left out. They're all crucial to that silver medal that they won. I highly doubt they would have won if they all relied on somebody [ex. 15oL]. -
I mean, Garrett and Hunter live with each other.. They play as a team
Huh? Since when does living with someone imply teamwork? Teamwork is the chemistry you build with the group of players and with some of the attitudes these players display, ie Garret (Long neck... I mean Long hair, Don't care). The likely hood of them actually practicing working as a team is below likely. I've never seen them do anything other than frag, and excessively at that I might add, but, teamwork would be playing so you'd always get the frags necessary for the rounds secure in your grasp. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »You do have a point, if you want to sort teams mainly by just skill. The thought here is to build stability along with skill in planning for a long-term, successful league. You can't build stability in picking teams from cups over 2-4 weeks that don't last through a whole season for a "P" division. You have to first sort through the teams willing to stick it out from the teams not willing to stick it out.
Skill is only one factor in placement, there is so much more than just skill. Building an upper division in 2-4 weeks? That's short-term thinking, not long-term thinking. An upper division should be more than who can win in a few short cups. It should be about conduct, player and team stability, skill, and a myriad of other aspects that should define a "Main" division that will last and promote the highest amount of competition not just for 1 season, but for many seasons.
Instead of trying to fix what the other two organizations couldn't do properly (or hold onto), you need to look at this community as if it's for the first time. I know for a fact you are going to get the same exact outcome by doing a 4 week session, or a 2 month session. Instead of taking community input, get together with your admins and figure out a rigorous, active plan that you all agree on and can execute with no hitches. Your not going to find your best solution here. -
Muffin. This game is undoubtedly different from games like 1.6/Source/COD4 etc.
You don't need teamwork to play good. 5 superb individuals with excellent shots + good gamesense would be able to be a top team. Teamwork is rarely used, other than in making calls (correct ones), and when you use a productive bait.
gamesense is teamwork... -
I don't get where you're getting information that HT has no chemistry.
I mean, Garrett and Hunter live with each other.. They play as a team, you don't see anyone on that team carrying, nor do you see anyone on that team that is left out. They're all crucial to that silver medal that they won. I highly doubt they would have won if they all relied on somebody [ex. 15oL].
i'm going to be honest here... there is nothing special about ht's chemistry. they're all just a bunch of good players who play smarter individually than most of the people in this community and out-rifling everyone didn't seem to help them much in the finals.
props to team russia for displaying some nice cross fires as gr and china for showing what teamwork is like when taking sites. then again i'm judging from a viewer's perspective and only on the 3 casted matches so there could have been a different story behind the scene that i'm not aware of
![[Denxi]](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/0/navatar_2018000.gif){kind=avatar}
![[MOD]Polleus](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/7/navatar_8918107.gif){kind=avatar}
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