Serious discussion - What do you think? What do you want?
Comments
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And for this so called "stability" that everyone wants, the one good way to make it happen is with strict rules that have no loopholes. Allow player and team changes, but don't be lenient. Instead of wasting a week to play 1 match, make teams schedule and play 2-3 matches per week. There isn't enough going on for people and teams to stabilize, and even then there are many aspects that I wouldn't be able to cover here.
"2 maps per week is keeping the competitive bar down. One bo3 per week in Invite and maybe main. Everyone has the time for it." - caseyfoster
Off topic to what is being discussed here, but he makes a good point. What he is asking for would probably be overkill for CF, but you see my point. Controversial and all, should be looked at. -
And for this so called "stability" that everyone wants, the one good way to make it happen is with strict rules that have no loopholes. Allow player and team changes, but don't be lenient. Instead of wasting a week to play 1 match, make teams schedule and play 2-3 matches per week. There isn't enough going on for people and teams to stabilize, and even then there are many aspects that I wouldn't be able to cover here.
"2 maps per week is keeping the competitive bar down. One bo3 per week in Invite and maybe main. Everyone has the time for it." - caseyfoster
Off topic to what is being discussed here, but he makes a good point. What he is asking for would probably be overkill for CF, but you see my point. Controversial and all, should be looked at.
This is what i was telling sauce, I really want 1-2 matches a week. -
If you schedule more than a single match a week (especially if they are on two different days) you risk losing many of the older players that are out of their teens and that will have obligations to attend to.Datkidddddd wrote: »agreed .
Wont happen, I'm sure if thousands of people have been able to manage over the past 4+ years I'm sure this community can considering you can schedule and have a team of more then 5 I'm sure teams can work it out. -
Wont happen, I'm sure if over 10,000 people can manage so can this community.
Well then you risk losing me
I'm guessing you're talking about some other league e.g. ESEA, etc. If so, the older player pool is much larger. Say 50% of players that are 20+ are unable to play 2-3 matches a week. Remove that percentage from 2000, you will still have 1000 players that are 20+. Remove that number from 20, you lose a more important part of what makes this community viable, especially since these players are usually key in the best teams. -
Well then you risk losing me
You will adapt to the new setting and see it's not actually as bad as your trying to make it.Datkidddddd wrote: »well with your idea as i talked with polleus about. you're idea would be perfect if this were looking to be a 'short term' project. but it's not.
You are trying to tell me teams can't manage two half hour matches on two separate nights?
And why would my idea be bad for the "long-term", because your not giving me anything to work on. -
You will adapt to the new setting and see it's not actually as bad as your trying to make it.
The problem is that even if I can make two nights a week 75% of the time, the end result for the 25% time I can't make it (DQ loss, team delegated to lower division) will be the same as an absence 100% of the time. This in turn makes me not want to be a starter, which makes me not want to invest my time in a team properly, if at all. -
The problem is that even if I can make two nights a week 75% of the time, the end result for the 25% time I can't make it (DQ loss, team delegated to lower division) will be the same as an absence 100% of the time. This in turn makes me not want to be a starter, which makes me not want to invest in a team properly.
What if you scheduled to play both matches in one night? It's been done before and it's going to be done again. Your looking at it in a way that makes it seem impossible when it isn't. Obviously there are cases (such as me back in 2010) when I didn't have the time to be a player, so instead I did what shoddy work I could as an admin. You work it out to the best outcome.
Edit: A bad thing I've noticed in 2010 is that many teams never schedule and always wait until the last possible second. Something needs to be done to make players accommodate for the other 9 people who will be involved in the match, etc etc etc. Long topic I never resolved, because you can't stop people from lying or taking advantage. -
Datkidddddd wrote: »it's funny how your on an alt, this was a discussion where polleus wanted the community's point of view.You're an idiot.Spell ixneD backwards.It'll take him lightyears.
I lol'd . -
didnt wanna read the whole thread so heres my idea, or my solution:
a) 2 games a week=14 games in a season, it will encourage teams to stay together because people wont get all depressed and angry and disband when they lose 1 game. because their is 13 more games. People will develop league experience at a fast lane level,let the playoffs, with a top 16 of the season go play. In my opinon, intensity and anger and frustration rise among 2 week teams because of the wait to prove on client. with 2 games a week, teams can fit in 2 sscrims as practice before each match, and no pressure is felt untill playoffs.(This will generally improve competitivness on a gradual slope level.)
b) 3 groups: Top Tier, Medium Tier, Lower Tier. TEams apply to whatever league they want. With Lower Tier being a smaller prize pool with no admission, medium will attract more teams as its a slightly higher tier and give a slightly higher prize. Top Tier will be a cash, winner takes all. But teams will have the option of playing in 2 different Tier's. with the exception that a top tier team cant play in lower tier. so generally 2 groups, with an option of playing cash as an optional league. -
What if you scheduled to play both matches in one night? It's been done before and it's going to be done again. Your looking at it in a way that makes it seem impossible when it isn't. Obviously there are cases (such as me back in 2010) when I didn't have the time to be a player, so instead I did what shoddy work I could as an admin. You work it out to the best outcome.
Edit: A bad thing I've noticed in 2010 is that many teams never schedule and always wait until the last possible second. Something needs to be done to make players accommodate for the other 9 people who will be involved in the match, etc etc etc. Long topic I never resolved, because you can't stop people from lying or taking advantage.
Many teams have this mentality of non-accommodation/selfishness and believe that inconveniencing the other team will somehow higher their chances of winning a match. I'm not sure where it comes from but they feel like if the team they are facing can't make it to default, then the right strategy is to not accommodate them and take the forfeit win(100% chance of winning vs lower chance of winning while facing them). This is prevalent with the entire spectrum of teams, no matter the talent or integrity.
Hence, can't make it to default: have to forfeit that match.
Maybe I've come to the age where I'm too old to play competitive games but I'd like to think there's no age limit to videogaming. -
The type of long-term project you want is never going to be found here. If you want to create something that is unique for this community alone you will need to research far beyond what little has hit this community so far. So instead of using this thread, ask your admins to do a ton of research into eSports and build something new. This entire thread has a bunch of opinions based on the previous two leagues and outside leagues. So again, have a few guys dedicate a real amount of time into creating a new system that works.
Even I made a few points that shouldn't be considered, I see it now.
TLDR: What I mean is that you need a few dedicated people who share the same vision. Open up some Google Doc's and brainstorm something so innovative it blows our minds. Because your never going to find something so big in a few posts. Surprise us next year. -
The type of long-term project you want is never going to be found here. If you want to create something that is unique for this community alone you will need to research far beyond what little has hit this community so far. So instead of using this thread, ask your admins to do a ton of research into eSports and build something new. This entire thread has a bunch of opinions based on the previous two leagues and outside leagues. So again, have a few guys dedicate a real amount of time into creating a new system that works.
Even I made a few points that shouldn't be considered, I see it now.
TLDR: What I mean is that you need a few dedicated people who share the same vision. Open up some Google Doc's and brainstorm something so innovative it blows our minds. Because your never going to find something so big in a few posts. Surprise us next year.
yeah, outside the box. something new.
messag2true -
The type of long-term project you want is never going to be found here.
You can't say these things. I'm like a child. What am I going to do when you say I can't do it?
tee heeIf you want to create something that is unique for this community alone you will need to research far beyond what little has hit this community so far. So instead of using this thread, ask your admins to do a ton of research into eSports and build something new. This entire thread has a bunch of opinions based on the previous two leagues and outside leagues. So again, have a few guys dedicate a real amount of time into creating a new system that works.
TLDR: What I mean is that you need a few dedicated people who share the same vision. Open up some Google Doc's and brainstorm something so innovative it blows our minds. Because your never going to find something so big in a few posts. Surprise us next year.
A lot more work has gone into this before coming to the community, ask Iceman. Ironically, his e-mail is full of my Google spreadsheets and presentations outlining this whole ordeal at length. I'm not using this thread as an end all be all of what we're going to do, as if I don't have a clue of what we're going to do. I feel it important to involve the community in any case.
In reference to people basing their opinions off of past leagues, that's all they can do really. A lot of these players have never competed nor even played outside of CF, so that's all they have to go on and that's completely fine. Will their logic always be right? No. Will my logic always be right? No. It's always good to examine all your angles, even if you already have an idea of where you're headed. This is essence, research of how this community works and thinks and feels about important aspects that I have planned out for a year and a half at least. You can't narrow your thinking to JUST your staff, you of all people should understand that knowing your community down to every detail is something that all eSports organizations should make a point of doing. Something that I feel is lacking in many other organizations today. -
I have only read my 1st few pages and too tired to finish off but here is what I think.
I agree that any P status is stupidly given to teams that fall apart. I also agree that it didn't even mean that much. You would of thought it's the perfect intensive for a team to stay together, guess not. A better intensive is what P status would mean. Prizes, Competition & High Rank status. Only way to filter the teams that deserve it is to play a open league with everyone and give it to the top qualifying teams. You can do this at the end of the 2nd season if you think that the 1st one would be too soon.
If you want to hand-pick teams and place them into an event because you think they deserve it, not only because they are a good team, but have committed to staying together and out lasting other teams, then why not do a Invite Only event. It's your company you can do what you want with it. If a team has clearly stayed together and played with a consistent roster for your events, you can choose to invite them to play an extra event. To not seem bias you just need to make a rule for it that's all. Something like "The top 8 qualifying teams that have max X (1?) roster changes over the X months/leagues will be invited for an extra event at the end of each season." -
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But that puts pressure on teams. What's the point of rushing in 2 matches. That puts them in a position that they may have to play on Friday Night and Saturday Night. Most people that don't play CF tend to go out on those days.
Fixed it for you. -
Touche.
Anyways, back to the topic. After the league gets established and whatnot, are there any plans for Weekly or even Monthly Drafts or stuff of that nature?
Drafts shouldn't be done by the league, it should be done by the players. (That way Me, Tae, and Suko can be admins/staffs on it ^^!) -
But that puts pressure on teams. What's the point of rushing in 2 matches. That puts them in a position that they may have to play on Friday Night and Saturday Night. Most people tend to go out on those days.
they can easily set default between mon-thurs.....
![[MOD]Polleus](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/7/navatar_8918107.gif){kind=avatar}
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