Combat Axe and Coupon Exchange changes.
Comments
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GodsGunman wrote: »Whatever way you look at it, removing the perm axe from the coupon exchange will kill competitive ghost mode in the long run. I honestly don't care what your reasons are for removing it.
There is valid point to this. However we'll have to approach it from a new perspective. It has been a long time since we've done larger events for ghost mode. Perhaps it's time for us as the publisher to add our hand in helping promote the mode. -
Gh0st_Slay3r wrote: »If they dont have the axe they will get better with the knife. I used to suck with knife in gm as bl but I forced myself to use it for a while now and have got a lot better with it and find it 10x more fun to sue than the axe.
There are lots of ghost mode players that would never have gotten into Ghost Mode if there was no axe, me being one of them. I strongly believe new people that try out ghost mode who only have the knife will not like it at all, and never play it again. Those that get the axe (like myself) might start enjoying it, and try to get better, eventually joining a ghost mode team.
Not having the axe in the coupon exchange for the same amount of coupons as before will in the long run kill ghost mode.
*edit* (ninja'd)[GM]Saidin wrote: »There is valid point to this. However we'll have to approach it from a new perspective. It has been a long time since we've done larger events for ghost mode. Perhaps it's time for us as the publisher to add our hand in helping promote the mode.
So the choice is yours, add back in the axe, something that is in all likelihood relatively simple, or spend dozens of hours and resources promoting ghost mode with organizing tournaments, making banners, announcements and the like.
Your way is risky, but if you can change the way everyone thinks of ghost mode and which weapons are OP without nerfing/buffing, then kudos to you, and job well done. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »There is valid point to this. However we'll have to approach it from a new perspective. It has been a long time since we've done larger events for ghost mode. Perhaps it's time for us as the publisher to add our hand in helping promote the mode.
whoop whoop. I think you just made me happy :rolleyes: -
My Question..[GM]Saidin wrote: »There is valid point to this. However we'll have to approach it from a new perspective. It has been a long time since we've done larger events for ghost mode. Perhaps it's time for us as the publisher to add our hand in helping promote the mode.
Are you saying that by removing the permanent axe, it promotes Ghost Mode? -
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GodsGunman wrote: »There are lots of ghost mode players that would never have gotten into Ghost Mode if there was no axe, me being one of them. I strongly believe new people that try out ghost mode who only have the knife will not like it at all, and never play it again. Those that get the axe (like myself) might start enjoying it, and try to get better, eventually joining a ghost mode team.
Not having the axe in the coupon exchange for the same amount of coupons as before will in the long run kill ghost mode.
This is correct on so many levels
When my combat axe 90 days ran out and got replaced by 30 days , i stopped playing gm or knife games , there was no point when others glitched to get the kris or bought kukri which is super overpowered , the axe was the only melee equalizer and removing it will deeply impact the melee appreciating community and might possible lead to the death of GM BL and Melee only matches -
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GodsGunman wrote: »So the choice is yours, add back in the axe, something that is in all likelihood relatively simple, or spend dozens of hours and resources promoting ghost mode with organizing tournaments, making banners, announcements and the like.
You should note here that while we work with the developers on aspects of the game direction, ultimately they are the ones that implement the designs.
Adding back the Axe is not a choice, or an option, at this point in time.
So the choice then, to use your own terms would be put back on you. We can spend time being negative about the change or we can find ways within the system we have to promote Ghost Mode or find new positives.
While you may have a valid opinion about competitive ghost mode. Having access to a permanent axe does not the mode make. Especially since the competitive ghost mode circle comes about from a purely community driven aspect. That aspect is not driven based on an item available in the game. But if we can continue to facilitate the growth of that aspect then that's what we'll do. -
There are two rimmington shotguns why not add one only and use the other spot for the permanent axe? That would solve the axe problem and the problem of people not knowing what to do with coupons. And 50 coupons for a 30day weapon is too much. There are also 3 grenades for 25 coupons why not remove two of the grenades and put the new coupon guns as 25 coupons for 30days instead?
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AR3SN4L4L1FE wrote: »There are two rimmington shotguns why not add one only and use the other spot for the permanent axe? That would solve the axe problem and the problem of people not knowing what to do with coupons. And 50 coupons for a 30day weapon is too much. There are also 3 grenades for 25 coupons why not remove two of the grenades and put the new coupon guns as 25 coupons for 30days instead?
They removed it for a reason.. if anything they would add the Perm AK Camo back before the axe -
I think Saidin is right.
Permanent Axes has been here for 3-4 years, it's time to evolve, and get new guns.
I apologize to people who wanted it, but as I always do :
"I buy now instead of waiting and probably be disappointed, if there is another awesome coupon gun that replaced the item I've bought before the patch, I just save the coupons and finally get it !"
I have 4 Permanent Axes and all permanent coupon guns, but that's how I did.
If you can take the item you want, take it now. The rest will come later ! -
NanoCooper wrote: »I think Saidin is right.
Permanent Axes has been here for 3-4 years, it's time to evolve, and get new guns.
It just devolved, in that 30 Days thing.
at least one of those perm would've been nice...
but no.
w.e time to do event day 2. -
How would that help your business at all? 1 day before the update I was going to buy ZP for my birthday. Now that that's gone I can't say I'll be doing anything of the sorts. You lost yourself a member, which is good for your business?
I'd still pay after that too, because there'd be a new mode, scratch that, two modes actually I could do well with, improving my experience. And then, after that you still had room for the remington along with the other weapon and the axe. How is that an improvement at all? -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »You should note here that while we work with the developers on aspects of the game direction, ultimately they are the ones that implement the designs.
Adding back the Axe is not a choice, or an option, at this point in time.
So the choice then, to use your own terms would be put back on you. We can spend time being negative about the change or we can find ways within the system we have to promote Ghost Mode or find new positives.
While you may have a valid opinion about competitive ghost mode. Having access to a permanent axe does not the mode make. Especially since the competitive ghost mode circle comes about from a purely community driven aspect. That aspect is not driven based on an item available in the game. But if we can continue to facilitate the growth of that aspect then that's what we'll do.
Almost everything I know had to be picked up over a year or two since I started becoming an active forumer, so forgive me for that mistake. I had thought that decisions on where to put items were not as strongly influenced as they now seem by smilegate.
It's unfortunate that the axe can't be seen returning there right now, I'm sure if you're willing to put in the effort (which from what you said it seems like you are), we (you as the GMs and us as the community) may be able to revive ghost mode.
It's nice to see for sure that G4Box is doing as much as they can with their... limitations. I understand you can't be blaming your boss for everything, even though in... some cases it's entirely their fault.
*edit* (ninja'd)How would that help your business at all? 1 day before the update I was going to buy ZP for my birthday. Now that that's gone I can't say I'll be doing anything of the sorts. You lost yourself a member, which is good for your business?
I'd still pay after that too, because there'd be a new mode I could do well with, improving my experience. And then, after that you still had room for the remington along with the other weapon and the axe. How is that an improvement at all?
Read what he said, they're doing all they can with their limitations. -
GodsGunman wrote: »Read what he said, they're doing all they can with their limitations.
Still, shouldn't they be partially in control? After all, loss of income would affect their loss of income. Even if this game doesn't go bankrupt off of this update (Probably anyway...), you have to understand, that if they don't make money, then G4BOX looses a mass of income too, so really their shouldn't be a boss here, there all directly related to the profit.OceanSpray wrote: »make perm axe a bp weapon... ppl are dieing for a new BP weapon.. great opportunity to give it to them ^^lol.
Mmhmm, this too. Except still, now we have 2 remmington slots? We're back to root 1 again.. -
Still, shouldn't they be partially in control? After all, loss of income would affect their loss of income.
A Permanent Axe for what is essentially free (coupons) represents a loss of income.
It also represents a flaw in the design. You shouldn't be buying crates to get a Permanent Axe. You should be buying crates because you want to win the prize in the crate. Getting the coupons is a nice bonus.
AND the fact that there are still permanent weapons available means you still have the option to collect coupons for something permanent.
GGms point is that the choice of permanent weapon (in this case not having the axe be one of the permanent weapons) stifles a subsection of the community, in Ghost Mode players. Which is something that we will now have to judge on, discuss with the developers and work within the limits of the game to correct. IE while we're discussing options with the devs, maybe it's time to run a GM event because we haven't run enough of them in the past. -
GodsGunman wrote: »Whatever way you look at it, removing the perm axe from the coupon exchange will kill competitive ghost mode in the long run. I honestly don't care what your reasons are for removing it.
The axe was literally the best deal in the coupon exchange. It was considered the standard for melee weapons, because it doesn't 1 shot if you hit the legs with a right click, as well as the range not being as far as the shovel. Having a 1 shot headshot was okay on this weapon too since it's basically either try for a headshot when you left click or try for a 1 hit kill when you right click, neither were guaranteed kills on contact unless they hit the correct spot.
Every other melee weapon in the game aside from the knife is overpowered. My clan as well as many other ghost mode clans that I've seen throughout the years have had a strict knife and axe only rule in place, especially for clan wars. Removing the axe from coupon exchange ruins that, because what used to be a fairly easy to attain permanent weapon can now only be achieved temporarily (or through zp crates when the rose axe was attainable).
G4Box has to be able to see the game through the eyes of the player, as well as through the eyes of a business, for the sake of the game, and in this case particularly, ghost mode. Without the axe, ghost mode will lose it's competitive edge.
I already have the axe and so does everyone else that I know that wanted it, that should be enough evidence to support I'm not looking out for myself with this plea, I'm trying to fight for the game. Please put it back where it was, or be faced with the consequences of the already dwindling ghost mode community die over time.[GM]Saidin wrote: »There is valid point to this. However we'll have to approach it from a new perspective. It has been a long time since we've done larger events for ghost mode. Perhaps it's time for us as the publisher to add our hand in helping promote the mode.GodsGunman wrote: »There are lots of ghost mode players that would never have gotten into Ghost Mode if there was no axe, me being one of them. I strongly believe new people that try out ghost mode who only have the knife will not like it at all, and never play it again. Those that get the axe (like myself) might start enjoying it, and try to get better, eventually joining a ghost mode team.
Not having the axe in the coupon exchange for the same amount of coupons as before will in the long run kill ghost mode.
*edit* (ninja'd)
So the choice is yours, add back in the axe, something that is in all likelihood relatively simple, or spend dozens of hours and resources promoting ghost mode with organizing tournaments, making banners, announcements and the like.
Your way is risky, but if you can change the way everyone thinks of ghost mode and which weapons are OP without nerfing/buffing, then kudos to you, and job well done.
If you look at TalonBlaze's threads, a majority of the top ghost mode players believe the competitions should be run with knives and not axes. I believe this change will better the ghost mode community rather than hurt it. Now the skill ceiling of BL has just gotten much higher. This will allow members of the community to outshine nearly everyone around them. This is why broodwar and quake series can be so exciting to watch. The skill ceiling is nearly limitless. There would be no Flash's or Cypher's if the competitions were friendly to get into. When I first started playing starcraft and later broodwar, it was quite the shock. I realized that I could be as good as I practiced to be, and grinded my way from a mediocre c6 level played to a mid to low b player. Along the way I learned so many transferable skills that I still use to this day.
For "competitive" ghost mode it is teams/clans that will be the next generation that furthers the mode. It isn't a matter of if new people would try ghost mode or not, it is a matter of getting more teams/clans to play it.
As for Z8 promoting ghost mode leagues and tournaments. This is mandatory, even if the axe was still ZP, if they didn't promote or the community didn't promote it there would be a very poor turnout. One of the reasons there was so many teams for the first WOGL O/P season was because of the massive push z8 did in promotions. WOGL-O was free to play and anybody could sign up for the single elimination tournament to earn a birth into the playoffs of the paid league. WOGL-P had a good turnout as well becuase buying entry into the tournament got not only the chance to win $1000 and the trip to china, but ZP items as well. Effectively you spent 10k ZP and gained more than you would if you just spent it on items normally. I believe GodsGunman had it backwards, to not spend the effort promoting ghost mode would be risky. In that case you are solely betting on word of mouth to convince teams to sign up. I believe the last round of WCG qualifiers had such a low turnout team wise because I feel it wasn't promoted enough. Z8 did do a lot in terms of announcements on the competitive page and in the forums, but I feel that there had to of been a way to get more exposure it could of been much larger and more successful like some of the other titles that were competing.
Sorry for the poor grammar and incoherent wall of text. I have been up well over 24 hours so things are getting a bit frazzled upstairs. -
Skill ceiling hasnt gotten any higherIf you look at TalonBlaze's threads, a majority of the top ghost mode players believe the competitions should be run with knives and not axes. I believe this change will better the ghost mode community rather than hurt it. Now the skill ceiling of BL has just gotten much higher. This will allow members of the community to outshine nearly everyone around them. This is why broodwar and quake series can be so exciting to watch. The skill ceiling is nearly limitless. There would be no Flash's or Cypher's if the competitions were friendly to get into. When I first started playing starcraft and later broodwar, it was quite the shock. I realized that I could be as good as I practiced to be, and grinded my way from a mediocre c6 level played to a mid to low b player. Along the way I learned so many transferable skills that I still use to this day.
For "competitive" ghost mode it is teams/clans that will be the next generation that furthers the mode. It isn't a matter of if new people would try ghost mode or not, it is a matter of getting more teams/clans to play it.
As for Z8 promoting ghost mode leagues and tournaments. This is mandatory, even if the axe was still ZP, if they didn't promote or the community didn't promote it there would be a very poor turnout. One of the reasons there was so many teams for the first WOGL O/P season was because of the massive push z8 did in promotions. WOGL-O was free to play and anybody could sign up for the single elimination tournament to earn a birth into the playoffs of the paid league. WOGL-P had a good turnout as well becuase buying entry into the tournament got not only the chance to win $1000 and the trip to china, but ZP items as well. Effectively you spent 10k ZP and gained more than you would if you just spent it on items normally. I believe GodsGunman had it backwards, to not spend the effort promoting ghost mode would be risky. In that case you are solely betting on word of mouth to convince teams to sign up. I believe the last round of WCG qualifiers had such a low turnout team wise because I feel it wasn't promoted enough. Z8 did do a lot in terms of announcements on the competitive page and in the forums, but I feel that there had to of been a way to get more exposure it could of been much larger and more successful like some of the other titles that were competing.
Sorry for the poor grammar and incoherent wall of text. I have been up well over 24 hours so things are getting a bit frazzled upstairs.
they just b hop , stab and slash you , it doesnt change anything -
Skill ceiling hasnt gotten any higher
they just b hop , stab and slash you , it doesnt change anything
You get head shots every time with you axe right? Please think before you post. Now it takes much more skill to kill the enemy in 1 hit. Not only that, since the knife moves faster it will allow for much more adept maneuvering. Several of the top GM players already prefer knives, and believe that knives should be the future for "competitive" ghost mode. There is quite a difference between playing in pubs/drafts, and playing actually tournaments/leagues.
The axe and other 1 hit weapons are basically the xm8 of ghost mode. The community is going to complain and whine, but in the end it will be for the better (at least that's what the told me when they took away my beloved xm8). -
I was really looking forward to getting the Permanent Axe on my alt account because I use it a lot and I enjoy knifing, but now I can't get it. =(
I understand why you did what you did, but couldn't you have left 1 permanent axe? Like there were 3 options for permanent axe in the 50 coupon slot, now theres 1 for the R4X Storm and 2 for the Remington. I mean, I really liked the permanent axe option, and I was probably going to buy zp on my other account sooner or later to get some crates and hopefully be able to get the Axe.
I also can't buy like 100's of zp crates for the chance of winning say the Permanent Rose Axe or Halloween Shovel, since it's all luck.
I'm just saying, you could have put maybe something else in that spot where the second Remington is.. like maybe a Permanent Shovel or Katana or something where the Permanent Axe used to be. That would be "changing it up", not what you're doing. -
You get head shots every time with you axe right? Please think before you post. Now it takes much more skill to kill the enemy in 1 hit. Not only that, since the knife moves faster it will allow for much more adept maneuvering. Several of the top GM players already prefer knives, and believe that knives should be the future for "competitive" ghost mode. There is quite a difference between playing in pubs/drafts, and playing actually tournaments/leagues.
The axe and other 1 hit weapons are basically the xm8 of ghost mode. The community is going to complain and whine, but in the end it will be for the better (at least that's what the told me when they took away my beloved xm8).
Most people can stab you once then slash you once, which results in your death , if done fast enough you can still move away undetected
I used to play with the axe , it expired , i play with the knife and it isnt too hard to get a 4kdr as BL -
Most people can stab you once then slash you once, which results in your death , if done fast enough you can still move away undetected
I used to play with the axe , it expired , i play with the knife and it isnt too hard to get a 4kdr as BL
Then it looks like you are good to go to compete at the top level. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »A Permanent Axe for what is essentially free (coupons) represents a loss of income.
It also represents a flaw in the design. You shouldn't be buying crates to get a Permanent Axe. You should be buying crates because you want to win the prize in the crate. Getting the coupons is a nice bonus.
AND the fact that there are still permanent weapons available means you still have the option to collect coupons for something permanent.
GGms point is that the choice of permanent weapon (in this case not having the axe be one of the permanent weapons) stifles a subsection of the community, in Ghost Mode players. Which is something that we will now have to judge on, discuss with the developers and work within the limits of the game to correct. IE while we're discussing options with the devs, maybe it's time to run a GM event because we haven't run enough of them in the past.
Honestly, I wouldn't say that would really be a loss in income, either your the best player out there (or a hacker I guess) you would never get enough GP without spending some money to get an axe.
I do very much want the main prize, but I know that simply isn't realistic. Like why I don't do the Missions.
You get a 1/9 chance of getting the correct dogtag. Which that you have to go out of your way for.
Then after that, you get maybe a 1/300 chance to get a gun that isn't even all that great.
If anythings your flaw, it's that. But I know your a business and honestly that is a good scheme dare I say. Simply because I'm not going to spend $400 dollars for a chance to win a good weapon. But I know there are others willing to do that Stares at godsgunman making it still a good technique. I'd rather have a steady income of coupons so I can buy a pretty good weapon for the right price.
If that makes any sense at all you can see where I'm going.
This discussion has been closed.
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