Combat Axe and Coupon Exchange changes.
Comments
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@ [GM]Saidin >
I wonder. What's the point into making temporary weapons? You already know that there's a minimum (if at all) persons buying temporary weapons. The Bushmaster, LR300 and AKs-74u are ones of the rarest guns to see. People just don't want temporary stuff.
What was the point of adding more temporary stuff, if even what's already here gets despised and rejected by the players?
Yeah its a waste of ZP imo.
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Exactly. I'm not against the perm AXE being moved out, afterall everything gets it's share once in a while. But what's the point into putting temporary in there, if basically, the majority doesn't even gives a f**k about temporary weaponry.Yeah its a waste of ZP imo.
This decision ... Was overboard, in my opinion. -
Exactly. I'm not against the perm AXE being moved out, afterall everything gets it's share once in a while. But what's the point into putting temporary in there, if basically, the majority doesn't even gives a f**k about temporary weaponry.
This decision ... Was overboard, in my opinion.
Some temporary weapons do get bought alot. Melee weapons mostly. Shovel, Kukri, Katana etc. The axe will probably be among that sort now that its only temp.
Hard to tell if the temp guns I see in game from people are crates or not though. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »Some temporary weapons do get bought alot. Melee weapons mostly. Shovel, Kukri, Katana etc. The axe will probably be among that sort now that its only temp.
Hard to tell if the temp guns I see in game from people are crates or not though.
All of them are crates. How much of AKs-74u and LR300 do you see around? And bushmasters? Even SG552, which is in crates too, is epically rare. People do not buy temporary guns. They do buy temp melee because there's no other choice, so far the only stable permanent melee was an AXE, and even myself, I got two of those and NEVER bought a temporary melee.
Temporary weapons are perfectly useless. Yes, they may be 2 people out of 100 that do buy them. 2 people out of 100 are not a reason to give us more temporary weapons. We don't need them. We don't use them. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »You should note here that while we work with the developers on aspects of the game direction, ultimately they are the ones that implement the designs.
Adding back the Axe is not a choice, or an option, at this point in time.
So the choice then, to use your own terms would be put back on you. We can spend time being negative about the change or we can find ways within the system we have to promote Ghost Mode or find new positives.
While you may have a valid opinion about competitive ghost mode. Having access to a permanent axe does not the mode make. Especially since the competitive ghost mode circle comes about from a purely community driven aspect. That aspect is not driven based on an item available in the game. But if we can continue to facilitate the growth of that aspect then that's what we'll do.
I believe you can help aid Ghost Mode by adding a GP dayed melee weapon so people like myself who only use GP and not ZP can experience an axe.
and no the WCG packages wont count because i dont want to spend 20k when i just use axe
put an axe 7day in Store for like 4000 GP? sounds fair enouf people could like it -
All of them are crates. How much of AKs-74u and LR300 do you see around? And bushmasters? Even SG552, which is in crates too, is epically rare. People do not buy temporary guns. They do buy temp melee because there's no other choice, so far the only stable permanent melee was an AXE, and even myself, I got two of those and NEVER bought a temporary melee.
Temporary weapons are perfectly useless. Yes, they may be 2 people out of 100 that do buy them. 2 people out of 100 are not a reason to give us more temporary weapons. We don't need them. We don't use them.
Would be easier to identify if they had a -B like the bugged AUG does to tell if its a black market version to tell for sure. I haven't seen any bushmaster's no, but plenty of the other guns.
But I honestly see more shovels and kukri's more than axes unless I'm in a 'competitive' channel. Even though the axe was perm. Think the lowest bought melee is the katana.
(Back when I started off, I used to get the Ghost package, till I saved up enough for my axe. was quite a good investment in save zp from then on, but i did go temp until that point) -
Because compared to axe both shovel is kukri is overpowered, and once again, there's no permanent alternative to such OP'd weapons. If the shovel was in a crate, everyone would use this instead of getting a temp one.[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »Would be easier to identify if they had a -B like the bugged AUG does to tell if its a black market version to tell for sure. I haven't seen any bushmaster's no, but plenty of the other guns.
But I honestly see more shovels and kukri's more than axes unless I'm in a 'competitive' channel. Even though the axe was perm. Think the lowest bought melee is the katana.
(Back when I started off, I used to get the Ghost package, till I saved up enough for my axe. was quite a good investment in save zp from then on, but i did go temp until that point)
Hey, let's make a test alright? Let's go out in UK1 and just scout rooms, to see how much AKs-74u, LR300 and Bushmasters we see in one hour. Of course, we won't count temp weapons which are obtainable with crates. So you open your eyes a little. -
Because compared to axe both shovel is kukri is overpowered, and once again, there's no permanent alternative to such OP'd weapons. If the shovel was in a crate, everyone would use this instead of getting a temp one.
Hey, let's make a test alright? Let's go out in UK1 and just scout rooms, to see how much AKs-74u, LR300 and Bushmasters we see in one hour. Of course, we won't count temp weapons which are obtainable with crates. So you open your eyes a little.
Well the thing in that case was the Kris, which was obtainable permanently via crates. And I've seen maybe.... 10? Granted the crate itself wasn't permanent, but considering it was another melee weapon much more OP than the axe, you'd think they'd be all over that.
Heh, UK1, haven't been there in ages. I never said I didn't agree with you, was just pointing out that it would be hard to say if someone did or didn't purchase them temp is all. They might have liked the weapon, who knows. lol. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »Well the thing in that case was the Kris, which was obtainable permanently via crates. And I've seen maybe.... 10? Granted the crate itself wasn't permanent, but considering it was another melee weapon much more OP than the axe, you'd think they'd be all over that.
Heh, UK1, haven't been there in ages. I never said I didn't agree with you, was just pointing out that it would be hard to say if someone did or didn't purchase them temp is all. They might have liked the weapon, who knows. lol.
Unlike all other crates, the Kris wasn't alone in the crates, thus already dividing the small chance of getting a perm out of a crate by 3 or 4 (depending on the number of perms), unless a crate contains all four perms at once.
Besides, crates take time. If that crate lasted 1 year, you wouldn't see any temp melee anymore.
Then again, crates aren't a sure buy. If you had a kriss or a shovel for coupons, temp melee would cease to exist in pubs.
And it is VERY easy to say that no one buys them. Here's a few factors:
a. You don't see pure temp guns in games. On a general basis. I saw maybe 4 or 5 in the past half a year.
b. There's a very limited number of discussion about those even on the forums. Generally, a lot of people ask advice before buys weaponry (as you can see with all those "help me choose" and "which gun is better" threads), but there's a tremendously low number of threads talking about those.
c. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people, using their common sense, can tell that a permanent weapon > not permanent weapon in quite a lot of cases (exception being UP and OP weapons as in a perm M16 < a temp AK-Camo or a temp m12s > a perm G36K in sheer power) -
Unlike all other crates, the Kris wasn't alone in the crates, thus already dividing the small chance of getting a perm out of a crate by 3 or 4 (depending on the number of perms), unless a crate contains all four perms at once.
Besides, crates take time. If that crate lasted 1 year, you wouldn't see any temp melee anymore.
Then again, crates aren't a sure buy. If you had a kriss or a shovel for coupons, temp melee would cease to exist in pubs.
And it is VERY easy to say that no one buys them. Here's a few factors:
a. You don't see pure temp guns in games. On a general basis. I saw maybe 4 or 5 in the past half a year.
b. There's a very limited number of discussion about those even on the forums. Generally, a lot of people ask advice before buys weaponry (as you can see with all those "help me choose" and "which gun is better" threads), but there's a tremendously low number of threads talking about those.
c. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people, using their common sense, can tell that a permanent weapon > not permanent weapon in quite a lot of cases (exception being UP and OP weapons as in a perm M16 < a temp AK-Camo or a temp m12s > a perm G36K in sheer power)
True enough, since coupons, even if not guaranteed, are still likely to be obtained at some point with enough persistence and play.
The likely scenario that will probably happen is we'll see more weapons like the kukri and the shovel, or a ton of more user's with knives.
I guess it doesn't help the cause when a zp crate costs 1000, and most of the temp weapons cost 2000+ for 7 days. You technically get more bang for your buck trying crates than buying it.
Though, its the same with sprays and other stuff. Most of the time its easier to get them through crates than it is to buy them via store. Exceptions probably being C4 Speed/Defuse and Expanded grenades.
So.... Not entirely sure what the deal is. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »Some temporary weapons do get bought alot. Melee weapons mostly. Shovel, Kukri, Katana etc. The axe will probably be among that sort now that its only temp.
Hard to tell if the temp guns I see in game from people are crates or not though.
That's because their is no GP Melee weapons available, this is just a ploy to increase more profits for z8, and no one wants to spend the gp for the wcg package just for the axe for 7 days "insert rude insult here" -
its only 210k gp a year...
what do you mean only, do you know how hard it is to get 210k gp for many ppl. some ppl got work and studies, exam and other things. they canot spend 25 hrs a day playing CF. and maybe same of them have no way of entering zp. i enter zp and was grounded by my parents for wasting money -
i have spent about 2 years to get the damm permanent axe.... finally i got enough coupons BUT NO!!!! THEY CHANGED IT!! WAY TO GO!!!
me to bro, when now i have enough money to get Combat axe, they change patch , so sad, i dont think i m gonna play this CF that often. maybe i will change to counter strike online since there are many perm weapons there. u could get 5 perm weapons( melee, pistol, rifle) for RM60(USD$20) -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »True enough, since coupons, even if not guaranteed, are still likely to be obtained at some point with enough persistence and play.
The likely scenario that will probably happen is we'll see more weapons like the kukri and the shovel, or a ton of more user's with knives.
I guess it doesn't help the cause when a zp crate costs 1000, and most of the temp weapons cost 2000+ for 7 days. You technically get more bang for your buck trying crates than buying it.
Though, its the same with sprays and other stuff. Most of the time its easier to get them through crates than it is to buy them via store. Exceptions probably being C4 Speed/Defuse and Expanded grenades.
So.... Not entirely sure what the deal is.
Both of which are GP and thus easy to get.
Plus most GP crates have them as well.
I got 2 years worth of Expanded grenade and 1 year of fast defuse from GP crates alone.
The only ZP temp weapon I see commonly that can ONLY be gotten with ZP directly is the Kukiri. But That is still around 1-2 spotted in GM a week. I play around 20+ GM games average a day to give you a idea of the scarcity. Most Katana users I see have Assassin A3 as a badge, Assassin A3's reward is a 90 day Katana.
The only time I've seen most ZP temp weapons was the week they came out.
Haven't seen a Famas-Camo since it was released, haven't seen a Dual Uzi's since they were released, haven't seen the Bushmaster since it was released, ect...
Most temp weapons are rarely ever bought, most of the ones we get are from crates.
losing the AXE in coupons is understandable, coupon weapons are mostly there for collecting and collecting becomes better when the things are no longer available. But replacing it with temp weapons that are way over priced for what they are? That is just plain INSULTING.
Nearly every time I see Z8 release temp weapons I'm reminded that they have no understanding on the value of the weapons they are releasing.
Example: The Remington.
It has a slower shooting rate, low ammo count, and longer reload then most shotguns in the game. All the GP shotguns are better then it, cheaper, and permanent. Why would anyone waste 50 coupons for a gun that last 30 days that has 3 other guns preforming much better then it?
Another Example: The Famas-Camo.
It a reskin +5 ammo version of a rarely used gun. Why would anyone pay for a temp version of a gun that many consider to be UP?
Z8 really has its values mixed up.
One expects weapon effectiveness to match up with how you get them.
ZP temp is where the BEST weapons should be, why else buy them at all if they are not the best?
ZP crates is is where most great weapons should be. Worse then the ZP temp but better then the rest.
Coupons should generally be of lesser or equal value to ZP crate guns.
GP crates is where simple upgrades to GP guns should be. Mostly just reskins with slightly more ammo.
GP is where the base guns should be.
Or in short:
ZP temp>ZP crate>=Coupons>GP crate>GP.
Z8 has it messed up has:
ZP crate>=Coupons>GP>GP crate>ZP temp. -
@ [GM]Saidin >
I wonder. What's the point into making temporary weapons? You already know that there's a minimum (if at all) persons buying temporary weapons. The Bushmaster, LR300 and AKs-74u are ones of the rarest guns to see. People just don't want temporary stuff.
What was the point of adding more temporary stuff, if even what's already here gets despised and rejected by the players?
bro i understand ur feelings.i also the person who not got that permanent axe for 2 coupon .But u have to understand that this is business.There is no humanity in place of business.now u will buy zp for 7 days katana or kukri.And that will bring money to them.better now try exchange M4a1 custom quickly.otherwise u will see that in next patch they will replace whole slot with 7 days m12s camo.and people will also not tell this noob gun. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »First off, taken from the Holiday December Patch Notes (December 2011)
There has never been a guarantee which coupon exchange items would be available at any given moment. As mentioned, they have always been BONUS ITEMS for opening crates.
Permanent weapons is something we want to be able to provide you, and how the Black Market operates is a direct involvement from us with the developers. Our system is very much unlike the other systems used in other versions of CF and we're proud that it's meant more permanent weapons and more crate options for you guys.
However there has to be some sort of sustainability to coupons. Having a player who has opened up enough crates to get what they want out of the coupons who then refuses to open up more crates because they have all coupon weapons is a concern. This doesn't always mean that they have to own everything, but the fact remains that there were too many permanent items available in the coupon exchange system was becoming an issue. In short, coupons were losing their value. As a result of that players complain when the system doesn't get updates. But updates doesn't mean most spots or positions or additional permanent items. Since we're dealing with a set amount of spaces for the items, we have to change some things up.
....
Try to think of the larger picture before deciding to post a huge QQ thread because there's a weapon introduced in the game that you can't permanently own. And on the flip side, if you already have the axe permanently then awesome. And if you don't, well now the Black Market is more flexible for you so that you don't feel the need to "horde" coupons for your item. The Axe is available in other places within the game, and we've seen special edition axes that are permanent, there is no reason to believe that these kinds of items will stop coming out. Just relax and have some fun within the game. Coupons are bonus items, treat them as such and you'll realize that you're having just as much fun.
Full proof logic in my opinion. Saidin is such a boss. -
They remove the only permanent melee weapon and replace it with two Rimmington shotguns for 30days for 50coupons. When before they had 90 day weapons for 10coupons. And they say the reason for this is so that people can do other things with their coupons. But the real reason is so you can make more money. To get 50 coupons you need around 120zp crates which would cost about $72 and you might not even win the weapon. $72 for a 30day weapon tell me one idiot that likes the new update?
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