Why the clan server is bad.

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Comments

  • I think the size of the map should determine the length of round.
  • Interesting concept but that leaves too much room for debate. Something standard across all maps is best. At worst that means that some maps will have to be played a bit faster.

    2:30 just allows way too much time.
  • maybe clan ranking system also based on wins and frags/death in beta
  • round time to short? lol.....

    the point of s n d is to ether kill the other team or plant/ defuse the bomb. Not run up the timer... ive been in 2 rounds on clan server i can think of where the timer ran up..... and the only time it ever seems to happen is if BL for whatever reason chooses not to plant and have their last guy hide....
    Never have i been setting there 1:50 secs into a round going "god i wish the round time was shorter, i cant possible set here for another 40 secs waiting for the outcome." how impatient or you? also, this is a game, somthing you do in your free time, if your on a schedule play F@#$ing solitaire.
  • Yeah you're right, there would be too many variables on a per map basis.
    But definently agree the time needs docked atleast half a minute.
    That's my vote.
  • friendly fire would fail :
    noob : give me ure gun
    me : no
    noob : " boom ", told u to give me ure gun
    thats why a noob ould abuse the friendly fire
  • gunner10k wrote: »
    friendly fire would fail :
    noob : give me ure gun
    me : no
    noob : " boom ", told u to give me ure gun
    thats why a noob ould abuse the friendly fire

    that's pretty sad if you have that problem in your clan
  • The most common method of two teams playing a formal match against each other is to go to the clan server. The clan server is good in a couple ways, but ultimately does more things wrong than right. This article is mostly my own opinion but I think its what the game needs.

    First, the short list of what the clan server does right:

    -Forces room name to be the name of the clan.
    -Auto switches at half time.
    -Forces even teams.


    Things the clan server does wrong:
    (Some of these might require changes to the game)

    - Can't rejoin at halftime or during the game.

    Things happen. Not everyone out there has the best equipment and the game itself is often buggy and crashes at random. By locking out a player for the rest of the game you've taken what might have been a good close 5v5 and made it a waste of time 5v4. No matter what the outcome is neither team is going to be happy. Also, sometimes people have off days, or they have to go due to something urgent in their life. I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed for a member from the same clan to join in at halftime.

    tl;dr: If someone drops or has their game crash, let them rejoin during the half. If someone else from the clan wants to join, let them join at halftime.

    - Spawns are fixed.

    When you spawn on the first round of the half, thats where you'll spawn for the rest of the half. This means that if you're playing at B and you spawn far away from it, you'll always get there late. With the consistent spawning it puts teams at a disadvantage and its not something that you can plan for. If you're on offense and you have to most god awful spawn that puts you so far away from A site, how can you rush A? The defense will always beat you to those choke points. A random spawn system adds more strategic depth to the game and ensures competitive balance.

    - Round times are too long

    I've spoken to many competitive players about this and we've all come to the same conclusion. 2:30(:25, w/e) is far too much time for a single round. The game plays slow enough as it is, rarely do teams run out of time. At times its just boring to play, let alone spectate as the last remaining attacker walks all the way from long A to B site on Black Widow in order to plant. A shorter time would be much better, and perhaps 10 or so seconds of "freeze time" so that teams can coordinate on vent or type in team chat. I would suggest 1:45 of playing time and :10 seconds of freeze time at the start of the round. Its not a major change, just start the round with 1:55 instead of 2:30.

    - No friendly fire

    Does anyone go into the clan server intending to lose? Even awful games like Combat Arms have friendly fire enabled in their clan server. Other versions of CF allow a checkbox for pubs to have friendly fire. No reason why our version shouldn't have it enabled on the clan server. It forces players to pay more attention to the game instead of just spraying bullets at anything that moves. Full team damage should be enabled.

    Besides, then we can make cool videos like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ_L24XMn-0



    All I can come up with right now. I understand that there may be internal company politics that prevent things from being changed but uh...yerp.


    If you have any thing else to add, type it up nice and I'll edit it into my thread.


    -Bruce[oL]

    very nice essay! im sure Saladin and the Mods will be happy :rolleyes:
  • to me there seems to be many more hackers/glitchers in clan beta.

    you have to sit there and get humiliated until 18 rounds are finished to get the replay.
  • round time is too long

    1:45 is fine

    keep clans from camping spawn, no more food breaks
  • We had FF before, I think....
    I might be thinking of a different game though.
  • 0:35 would happen to every single team all the time if FF was on.

    But I support.
  • Pubstarrr wrote: »
    0:35 would happen to every single team all the time if FF was on.

    But I support.

    I imagine 3 grenades would do some damage as things are right now.



    But still, friendly fire would just make the game feel more natural and competitive.
  • klone123 wrote: »
    round time is too long

    1:45 is fine

    keep clans from camping spawn, no more food breaks


    "Yo man these kids slow play man watch ima go grab my coke from the fridge and they'll still be in spawn."
  • I agree with everything that bruce has touched on here. Implementing changes that would address these matters would significantly improve competitive game play in crossfire. I think the round time limit is the most important, along with the spawn location issue. The fact that you can't rejoin after a dc in the clan server makes scrimming there virtually pointless. Having a FF option would be great aswell.
  • Crossfire20090623_0000.jpg?t=1271907316

    Left side: Friendly fire

    Apparently other versions had it :c
  • The most common method of two teams playing a formal match against each other is to go to the clan server. The clan server is good in a couple ways, but ultimately does more things wrong than right. This article is mostly my own opinion but I think its what the game needs.

    First, the short list of what the clan server does right:

    -Forces room name to be the name of the clan.
    -Auto switches at half time.
    -Forces even teams.


    Things the clan server does wrong:
    (Some of these might require changes to the game)

    Another thing clan server does right is that it is universally recognized as where to play scrims at by most clans.
    - Can't rejoin at halftime or during the game.

    Things happen. Not everyone out there has the best equipment and the game itself is often buggy and crashes at random. By locking out a player for the rest of the game you've taken what might have been a good close 5v5 and made it a waste of time 5v4. No matter what the outcome is neither team is going to be happy. Also, sometimes people have off days, or they have to go due to something urgent in their life. I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed for a member from the same clan to join in at halftime.

    tl;dr: If someone drops or has their game crash, let them rejoin during the half. If someone else from the clan wants to join, let them join at halftime.

    Good point. Also a quick note there should be added functionality in the voting options for clan matchs. Pause and Reset Match (return to lobby) are two that come in mind. These would help deal with lag issues or timeouts or afk's between clans. I do understand that some clans might not want to play with good manner, but this leaves the possibility for others.
    - Spawns are fixed.

    When you spawn on the first round of the half, thats where you'll spawn for the rest of the half. This means that if you're playing at B and you spawn far away from it, you'll always get there late. With the consistent spawning it puts teams at a disadvantage and its not something that you can plan for. If you're on offense and you have to most god awful spawn that puts you so far away from A site, how can you rush A? The defense will always beat you to those choke points. A random spawn system adds more strategic depth to the game and ensures competitive balance.

    Another problem with fixed spawns is getting spammed through walls and boxes will stuck in freeze time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't spawns based on player location in the lobby.
    - Round times are too long

    I've spoken to many competitive players about this and we've all come to the same conclusion. 2:30(:25, w/e) is far too much time for a single round. The game plays slow enough as it is, rarely do teams run out of time. At times its just boring to play, let alone spectate as the last remaining attacker walks all the way from long A to B site on Black Widow in order to plant. A shorter time would be much better, and perhaps 10 or so seconds of "freeze time" so that teams can coordinate on vent or type in team chat. I would suggest 1:45 of playing time and :10 seconds of freeze time at the start of the round. Its not a major change, just start the round with 1:55 instead of 2:30.

    I believe round time should be one of the options in the lobby game setup menu. Also I think freeze time should be upped to 15 seconds. 10 Seconds is a little short to develop a strategy for the upcoming round.
    - No friendly fire

    Does anyone go into the clan server intending to lose? Even awful games like Combat Arms have friendly fire enabled in their clan server. Other versions of CF allow a checkbox for pubs to have friendly fire. No reason why our version shouldn't have it enabled on the clan server. It forces players to pay more attention to the game instead of just spraying bullets at anything that moves. Full team damage should be enabled.

    In my opinion friendly fire should be another option in the game lobby menu. As for damage reduction, I believe the reduction through boxes would be good enough for FF. However, this would require the guns that do full spam damage to be fixed.


    All I can come up with right now. I understand that there may be internal company politics that prevent things from being changed but uh...yerp.


    If you have any thing else to add, type it up nice and I'll edit it into my thread.


    -Bruce[oL]

    Another thing I believe should be added is a delay on spectator. I haven't tested it out, but I imagine there is no delay in spectator which could lead to ghosting problems in organized matchs. I think there should also be a way to password spectator separately from the game lobby. This way you could invite the other team and guests.

    I have many more comments/ideas that other games have done effectively, but I will see where this thread goes before I add any more.
  • Only read the first post and a couple replies, so if I repeat anything... MY BAD.
    First, the short list of what the clan server does right:

    -Forces room name to be the name of the clan.
    -Auto switches at half time.
    -Forces even teams.

    Agreed.
    Disagreed.
    Disagreed.

    I think there should be a short "halftime" between rounds. During this time I'd let teams make subs, use storage, etc. Would maybe be 30 seconds long.

    I think if a team is willing to play man down and the other team doesn't mind... Go for it. You have to ready up anyways, it's not like they can force you to play man down.

    - Can't rejoin at halftime or during the game.

    Things happen. Not everyone out there has the best equipment and the game itself is often buggy and crashes at random. By locking out a player for the rest of the game you've taken what might have been a good close 5v5 and made it a waste of time 5v4. No matter what the outcome is neither team is going to be happy. Also, sometimes people have off days, or they have to go due to something urgent in their life. I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed for a member from the same clan to join in at halftime.

    tl;dr: If someone drops or has their game crash, let them rejoin during the half. If someone else from the clan wants to join, let them join at halftime.

    If someone disconnects I think anyone should be able to join the empty spot. The game needs to recognize whether or not that player slot died. Players should only be able to spawn during freeze time. I already explained how I think halftime should work.
    - Spawns are fixed.

    When you spawn on the first round of the half, thats where you'll spawn for the rest of the half. This means that if you're playing at B and you spawn far away from it, you'll always get there late. With the consistent spawning it puts teams at a disadvantage and its not something that you can plan for. If you're on offense and you have to most god awful spawn that puts you so far away from A site, how can you rush A? The defense will always beat you to those choke points. A random spawn system adds more strategic depth to the game and ensures competitive balance.

    I know some people care a lot about this, I don't. I just wish the clan server and the other servers were the same. Whether they're both fixed or both random, I wouldn't care too much. Both random would probably be my preference though.
    - Round times are too long

    I've spoken to many competitive players about this and we've all come to the same conclusion. 2:30(:25, w/e) is far too much time for a single round. The game plays slow enough as it is, rarely do teams run out of time. At times its just boring to play, let alone spectate as the last remaining attacker walks all the way from long A to B site on Black Widow in order to plant. A shorter time would be much better, and perhaps 10 or so seconds of "freeze time" so that teams can coordinate on vent or type in team chat. I would suggest 1:45 of playing time and :10 seconds of freeze time at the start of the round. Its not a major change, just start the round with 1:55 instead of 2:30.

    Yeah, round time could use a trimming. 1:45 with 10sec freeze sounds about right.
    - No friendly fire

    Does anyone go into the clan server intending to lose? Even awful games like Combat Arms have friendly fire enabled in their clan server. Other versions of CF allow a checkbox for pubs to have friendly fire. No reason why our version shouldn't have it enabled on the clan server. It forces players to pay more attention to the game instead of just spraying bullets at anything that moves. Full team damage should be enabled.

    Should definitely be enabled. I guess there could be an option for it, but I'd think competitive players would want it on. I also think nade damage should be increased. Shots on team mates should probably be about 30% of the damage they do on the enemy.


    --

    Another idea I had awhile ago... I saw there's a board for wogl on the z8 forums. I don't know if there's any sort of partnership there or not. But I think it'd be a pretty rad idea if you could set rooms to wogl rules. I doubt z8 would go for it, but I know competitive players would. By wogl rules, I mean... The part of the room where you'd select knife only, sniper only... There'd be an option that says "wogl". Or if they didn't want it to say wogl, put "pro", "league", whatever - I don't care. Pretty much it'd just limit the scrim to whatever the current league allows. The only problem with that is leagues are going to have to constantly change their rules for CrossFire and I don't know whether or not they'd want to update that part of the game over and over.
  • Mickeyes definitely had some good points there. But my suggestion would be to have the clan server a 5v5 server. No 8v8 rooms, 7v7's, 6v6's, 3v3 or 4v4's. Just 5v5 rooms. Bad enough when you go into a room with 5 people in it. You ask for 5 and they say "6/7/8". Scrims are meant to be 5v5's.
  • I don't think that FF would be abused in clan scrims, but it should not be enabled in pugs by any means, that is where the abuse would be widespread.
    I agree that the scrims should be a max of 5 vs 5.
    Also the disconnect issue should be resolved, I have been in a few scrims where there was only one player left on one team due to disconnects and not having the possibility of rejoining.
  • I don't understand how "FF" would be abused. I'm assuming the people posting those replies don't realize we're talking about the clan server... I hope.
  • Yet another thread with wonderful ideas that are just never going to happen......Prove me wrong.
  • The maps in this game are small enough to allow for low round limits. Only when people **** around do you have to even consider time running out.

    I'd go as far to suggest 1:30 with a 5 second game delay as the round starts (pretty much as it is now).

    Because some maps are bigger you could even see about adding a round time limit option on the left with the other options. Ie. 1:30, 1:45, 2:00, 2:30.

    Friendly Fire... full damage or reduced I can't really say. There is a difference in having to be cautious and then not even being able to risk shooting. Either way it will be good for scrims.

    All this is fairly worthless for the beta channel if players are still unable to join after being disconnected. However you want to see about getting it implemented I would suggest something like this:

    -Saves spots/score of players

    Only those that play the half can rejoin if disconnected/quit. Do not allow them to respawn if they leave and come back. Saving the scores of the player goes with saving the spot, so another person cannot join until the half is over.

    -Halftime player spots/scores reset
    First, the GP and Headshot total are added up from both halves so I know it saves the previous scores. Have it reset scores and player slots. On top of that make it a mandatory 15 second wait before the match starts (pretty much what it is now). Because the player spots and scores are reset you can switch your roster, and as this is the beta server you obviously can only switch clanmates.

    Also, though most respectable teams won't do this, don't allow the game to start until all the 'player' spots are filled. This way you won't get people playing 6v5 in an original 5v5. So if teams want more or less players, they take an extra 10 seconds and recreate the room to match the total players.

    Finally, though I can't really tell how this would work out due to there being no time delay, a spectator mode option. What better way for players to learn and see than if they can watch a match *live*. The teams playing (if this option existed) could limit the amount of spectators and such. Without a time delay you know how this could obviously be abused, but I tend to believe that most clans who are worth watching won't abuse it.


    Again though, I have no idea what is possible for you to incorporate into the game and what isn't.


    #mytwocents
  • Oh yeah, I forgot to mention spectators. ADD SPECTATORS.

    Except, I think there should definitely be a delay.
  • Kahlann, what if they only allowed a re-join after the 2 minute mark? (Or w/e 15 seconds after the start would be)

    Although I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement.
  • Denxi wrote: »
    Kahlann, what if they only allowed a re-join after the 2 minute mark? (Or w/e 15 seconds after the start would be)

    Although I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement.

    That was what I was hoping for, might have put it in there or not. Early in the morning. = =

    That was how it was before a certain patch. If you joined the game after the round started then you couldn't spawn or very soon after. Again, against most teams you won't have to worry about any abuse in the mechanics of the game but we're talking about the clan server in general.

    Because of that i'd suggest a very low limit or just plain no spawn.


    Just noticed that you can't say di.ck. I wonder if Richard would be pleased. Does ***** work? Nope, no talking about genitalia on here... how will I ever learn Sex Ed now. T.T
  • IMO this would probably be a room type than a server.
  • Ignore this if it's being said allready.

    Friendly fire would...cause more rage than there allready is.

    Fixed Spawn Points. This is good. You can place yourself in the room so you are closer to the position you wanna get, giving you a advantage over that spot etc.


    I agree about joining at half etc. It's bs when you switch Alt-Tab come back and you get DC, or you get genuenly DC or game crashes for you and your team has to play with 1 less player when it's the game's fault.
    However, you can't have players leaving and coming back 10 times during the game either can you? Play through, show the real scores/frags and that is how you won/lost the game. No RQ rejoin.

    But gotta compramise and say it would be a lot nicer if you can join at half time.

    =]