For saidin
Comments
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Come on, seriously? Are you that paranoid of people being angry that they broke the rules and get punished for it (disqualified) then post non sense on the forums (which can easily be removed)?suko wrote:With bandicam, you only have to review hackusations. Require people to bandi regardless. Therefore the person uploads their bandi after, and if they don't have it? Too bad they are D/Qed gg, but only if there are accusations against said player. It's not a perfect system, but unless you can get a working a/c that doesn't lag 90% of the players, well that's about all you can do.
This two go hand in hand, Lemme respond to this before going to what Erick said.
1) Whatever the decision is to have rules, or have bandicam (or some type of other thing). It would be forced and enforced.
We would not care about the nonsense on the forums in this regard.
2) Every match ends up in a hackusation. We would be requiring people to bandi, or use whatever and yes a few of those matches would be fine. But it's our experience that everyone accuses the other team of hacking regardless of what system they are on (ac, or bandi or whatever). -
sukodaworst wrote: »Doop said they'd play in one more tourney in his 'super post'. Nice try though.
You're an idiot. He said he was going to lead a mix team of players from all different teams for this said tourney, he actually specifically said lpk was not coming back. -
You're an idiot. He said he was going to lead a mix team of players from all different teams for this said tourney, he actually specifically said lpk was not coming back.
I bet sype/doop/minty play on the same team. Kinda making it LPK again.
We will see who the 'idiot' is then, shall we? -
sukodaworst wrote: »I bet sype/doop/minty play on the same team. Kinda making it LPK again.
We will see who the 'idiot' is then, shall we?
No they won't. Considering doop has actually spoke to me about the matter and not you yet you still blur out random assumptions makes me giggletron. -
No they won't. Considering doop has actually spoke to me about the matter and not you yet you still blur out random assumptions makes me giggletron.
[16:48] ERIC***KK: pretty sure he told me it was still gonna be him sype and minty
[16:48] ERIC***KK: and he wanted to try and get jaime
[16:48] ERIC***KK: like last night he told me this
whatever slaya
here;
[02:29] doop: im hoping to get an instinct/lpk/snsd pug going
[02:29] doop: something like doop sype minty jon jaime pablo cypher reck -
I'm not saying not let some people play.
Or even link it to this "Tournament" you guys are running now.
The competitive community needs some sort of help from Z8.
What im trying to say is after this tournament you're hosting for all of the players for FREE
Make a league where we still have to pay in a form of ZP lets say(thats easiest)
but give a cash form of prize from that zp bought.
Example. 2 Divisions open and pro like i said. Open gets 20 teams lets say. 20x5= 100 players at the minimum withOUT backups. 100 players+a 5 dollar league is is 500 dollars. And thats the open prize pool. Frist getting 250, 2nd 100, ect ect.
Pro would be invite only depending on how well you did in open.
This way z8 isnt really losing money, Theyre just helping us with signups and such, so players know they arent getting scammed.
The Tournament that was intended to run right this moment, is at the point where using this kind of discussion can only help.
So great, we run a simple tournament to work out some kinks with a web designed bracket, or to award some zp and build some extra momentum. But ultimately the stuff being discussed right this second are part of the building blocks to anything bigger we do. (and thus the benefit of this thread)
There's not so much worry about losing money, think of it this way. There will always be the public and casual side of the game, that is not going anywhere and part of the reason why we're even discussing some sort of legitimate tournament in the first place.
There is money to be used for a tournament or league or whatever we want. The largest hurdle has been staffing, in so far as we've been trying to find ways to be able to run leagues or tournaments without the need for everyone on board to drop what they are doing and focus solely on a tournament. It's difficult, that's a fact of life.
It also has to do with holding an open tournament and accounting for the hack situation, obviously we're very aware of what it's like in game and competition is only good when its legitimate. Somehow we need to find a way to make that such.
Charging ZP is a way to legitimize the tournament and to lower the number of public signups, and sure if it helps increase some internal numbers then that's fine. But we don't need to worry about charging everyone 5 bucks so we can issue a few thousand dollars in a paycheque in cash to the winner.
It should also be noted that 3rd party leagues charge more because of the staffing it takes to put this kind of stuff together than the prize itself.
Continue with the discussion, but lets try to keep things moving constructively. Some people in this thread are already degrading the quality of discussion. -
checking armour is as simple as making the game a couple rounds higher than your target, bringing an m4 to the middle of the map and shooting the enemy in the head. next round 1 body shot each while the other team gets to shoot your players.
start at 1 round a piece, can even nade the 2nd round if you wish.
or take a ss while you hold tab and upload it. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »The Tournament that was intended to run right this moment, is at the point where using this kind of discussion can only help.
So great, we run a simple tournament to work out some kinks with a web designed bracket, or to award some zp and build some extra momentum. But ultimately the stuff being discussed right this second are part of the building blocks to anything bigger we do. (and thus the benefit of this thread)
There's not so much worry about losing money, think of it this way. There will always be the public and casual side of the game, that is not going anywhere and part of the reason why we're even discussing some sort of legitimate tournament in the first place.
There is money to be used for a tournament or league or whatever we want. The largest hurdle has been staffing, in so far as we've been trying to find ways to be able to run leagues or tournaments without the need for everyone on board to drop what they are doing and focus solely on a tournament. It's difficult, that's a fact of life.
It also has to do with holding an open tournament and accounting for the hack situation, obviously we're very aware of what it's like in game and competition is only good when its legitimate. Somehow we need to find a way to make that such.
Charging ZP is a way to legitimize the tournament and to lower the number of public signups, and sure if it helps increase some internal numbers then that's fine. But we don't need to worry about charging everyone 5 bucks so we can issue a few thousand dollars in a paycheque in cash to the winner.
It should also be noted that 3rd party leagues charge more because of the staffing it takes to put this kind of stuff together than the prize itself.
Continue with the discussion, but lets try to keep things moving constructively. Some people in this thread are already degrading the quality of discussion.
Is it possible for someone like ayce to partner with you guys to help handle the hackusations and such?
There has to be an easy way to to help out the competitive side of the community
on z8s part. -
I think there would be more teams, if asians team could actually participate without getting bashed on for behind asian. If theres an asian team in echo 8, peoples response "GO BACK TO ALPHA 7 YOU *****"
If you think they cheat, just wait till an AC comes, but that doesn't usually happen, because of the people being ruthless animals when they see an asian team in echo 8.
I talked to lots of asian teams, they mostly don't want to participate because of the racism, and the bashing they get. -
Is it possible for someone like ayce to partner with you guys to help handle the hackusations and such?
There has to be an easy way to to help out the competitive side of the community
on z8s part.
i'm SURE some people in the community wouldn't mind doing this for a good tourney/league. -
I mean like,
Really the only thing i could see z8 doing would be helping with a league fee like wogl.
I SERIOUSLY feel there has to be one for the serious competitive side of crossfire.
Even utilizing your competitive tab/page would be cool. Have the current league seasons standings, league leaders, Ect. -
Let's put together a hypothetical rule set and breakdown for a potential tournament.
Let's say the prizes will be in real world money or at least real world prizes (gaming gear).
Signups
Teams of 5
You must have 1,000 ZP minimum to be taken from each account that gets signed up.
A team Leader must have a valid email address associated with their account.
The Team Leader must sign up 5 players using their Cross Fire USN.
Each player must be a minimum of level 5 to play.
A player can only be signed up once / associated with 1 team.
So for this hypothetical signups. Now we have lets just keep it simple and say 8 Divisions, 6 teams each. 64 teams.
Now to properly seed teams for a 32 man tournament we need to have each team play each other team in their division once.
Lets say this has to happen over the course of 1 month.
That gives you ~4 weeks to seek out the other teams and play at least 1 match, report the score to a tournament email with bandicam evidence, and then gives us that time to sort out the data.
How would you sort out communication between each teams. Would we be expected to select the specific time for all 120 games in the round robin?
I'm asking this last part to find out what you expect us to make rulings on. We ultimately have to step back and say, well this clan was here and this clan wasn't etc etc. And if we say "you all must play all your games on Oct 19th" then someone is going to sign up and say, wtf I can't play on that day.
I'm looking to get more insights on what you guys expect when you're playing to set up a match versus a complete stranger. -
Is it possible for someone like ayce to partner with you guys to help handle the hackusations and such?
There has to be an easy way to to help out the competitive side of the community
on z8s part.
There is certainly nothing wrong with this idea. Obviously some things need to be discussed further to make something like that official, but no one is putting that idea off the table. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »Let's put together a hypothetical rule set and breakdown for a potential tournament.
Let's say the prizes will be in real world money or at least real world prizes (gaming gear).
Signups
Teams of 5
You must have 1,000 ZP minimum to be taken from each account that gets signed up.
A team Leader must have a valid email address associated with their account.
The Team Leader must sign up 5 players using their Cross Fire USN.
Each player must be a minimum of level 5 to play.
A player can only be signed up once / associated with 1 team.
So for this hypothetical signups. Now we have lets just keep it simple and say 8 Divisions, 6 teams each. 64 teams.
Now to properly seed teams for a 32 man tournament we need to have each team play each other team in their division once.
Lets say this has to happen over the course of 1 month.
That gives you ~4 weeks to seek out the other teams and play at least 1 match, report the score to a tournament email with bandicam evidence, and then gives us that time to sort out the data.
How would you sort out communication between each teams. Would we be expected to select the specific time for all 120 games?
I'm asking this last part to find out what you expect us to make rulings on. We ultimately have to step back and say, well this clan was here and this clan wasn't etc etc. And if we say "you all must play all your games on Oct 19th" then someone is going to sign up and say, wtf I can't play on that day.
I'm looking to get more insights on what you guys expect when you're playing to set up a match versus a complete stranger.
Make a private forum only accessible to the team leader/scheduler.
Team captains have to discuss match times and such(if its not already a default day)
After the match players can request Armor screenshots/bandicams/ ect.
I liked your first general idea though for signups.
You guys are able to make a private subforum right?
Just like what you have with mods? -
How about you make a section inside of the competitive forums for this tournament. And then there is individual sections for each division with each match having it's own thread. Will make it somewhat easier to communicate.
Also, if someone reports a no-show, than they have to have some kind of proof on the time and date they were waiting, and a screenshot of the agreement from the forums on when and where the match will be held.
Along the lines of cheating, you should have fraps or bandicam. When a player is getting called out, they post their ingame vid on the thread specifically assigned to that matchup. If they fail to post it within 24 hours(maybe 48) than their whole team is DQ'd from the divsion.
ninja'd by erick on the subforums lol -
Make a private forum only accessible to the team leader/scheduler.
Team captains have to discuss match times and such(if its not already a default day)
After the match players can request Armor screenshots/bandicams/ ect.
I liked your first general idea though for signups.
You guys are able to make a private subforum right?
Just like what you have with mods?
As a small aside, one of the most time consuming things is creating endless match up forum posts. I know that directly from experience.
There is quite a bit of logistics involved in doing all that, but it's possible. The more teams the more headache for sure. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »As a small aside, one of the most time consuming things is creating endless match up forum posts. I know that directly from experience.
There is quite a bit of logistics involved in doing all that, but it's possible. The more teams the more headache for sure.
I will send you some asprin.
It is really great getting some kind of feedback on the competitive player's wants from you Saidin. Keep it up. -
What kind of time frame is a reasonable time frame for teams to compete in a division.
Say 6 teams in a division, and you must play each time once. What is the best way to split that up?
Tell people you must play X team before Y day?
Tell people you must play all teams in your division by a certain day?
Etc. -
Make sure that enough teams can join.. Just not the top 5 or whatever. Tourney's give new teams a chance to prove to people how good they are.
The Signups would be convoluted, but would be accessible.
From a game growth standpoint this is an aspect that cannot be denied. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »What kind of time frame is a reasonable time frame for teams to compete in a division.
Say 6 teams in a division, and you must play each time once. What is the best way to split that up?
Tell people you must play X team before Y day?
Tell people you must play all teams in your division by a certain day?
Etc.
Probably play all teams in your division by a certain day. Maybe like 3 weeks? Would give time for 5 matches. Would it be one map, or best of 3? Probably should go with one map, chosen by the head of the tourney.
Maybe if you do not play a team in your division, it would count as a loss for both teams? -
WaffleMunzta wrote: »Probably play all teams in your division by a certain day. Maybe like 3 weeks? Would give time for 5 matches. Would it be one map, or best of 3? Probably should go with one map, chosen by the head of the tourney.
Maybe if you do not play a team in your division, it would count as a loss for both teams?
To keep it consistent and fair for all teams the actual game rules and stuff would be set by us. (or me as the case may be)
Example
All games are a Best of 3 played on the following maps:
Game 1: Eagle Eye
Game 2: Black Widow
Game 3 (if necessary): Sub Base
(just an example, though I wouldn't be surprised if those maps would be chosen)
This would be for the divisional games for all teams and all players.
This means ultimately you as a team in a division of 6 teams, would play those maps 5 times over.
To avoid the clan server, and allow teams with players on multiple clans to play the games could be played as halves in regular games. Though personally I would prefer to play on the clan server. Disconnects are an issue to consider. When one player disconnects it will be hard to trust random teams to a set of rules that says "abandon the match and continue with a score etc"
Disconnects need to have a large special set of rules set up for them. Partly because of the public nature of the signups and tournament etc. Problems happen, it's where to put the iron fist down on these kinds of stuff the trick. -
Should be noted that many of these rules have been set up in the past, either in tournaments from our past or in internal documents about these kinds of things.
But as we start to put these rules out, the grey areas start to show themselves and it becomes much harder to hold a legitimate competition with as much grey area as there is. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »As a small aside, one of the most time consuming things is creating endless match up forum posts. I know that directly from experience.
There is quite a bit of logistics involved in doing all that, but it's possible. The more teams the more headache for sure.
It doesn't have to be YOU.
That would be a responsibly of a league administrator, or so on. That would be their job.
But in this forum that administrator would also need the writes to make threads in a private forum just like mods. -
As for time frames for matches, just make it 2 matches a week, schedule defaults
Ex: Wednesday 8 30 EST and Sunday 8 30 EST, and make it negotiable for both teams in a forum post or website or w.e, and then send it in to someone update a spreadsheet etc?
It will be a bit hectic for the beginning, esp if you have an open division with 150+ teams or w.e but it evens out, if you need help, get community members you guys trust to go on with it.
Making a league pay to play would be great, resulting in Cash Prizes, and an actual goal for teams to stay together in to build stronger teams. The strongest teams are teams that stick together. If you have constant seasons, say every 4 months or so, after playoffs or w.e you can keep using the money ppl are paying to continue on with the season, and if you have enough left over, rent out a venue, make a LAN for top placers etc.
Iunno, fun idea to try to bring light into the dark cave known as the competitive area of CF. -
I think there would be more teams, if asians team could actually participate without getting bashed on for behind asian. If theres an asian team in echo 8, peoples response "GO BACK TO ALPHA 7 YOU *****"
If you think they cheat, just wait till an AC comes, but that doesn't usually happen, because of the people being ruthless animals when they see an asian team in echo 8.
I talked to lots of asian teams, they mostly don't want to participate because of the racism, and the bashing they get.
No...
The majority of them are just plain annoying and dumb. Sure there are some respectable ones, but most of them aren't even worth playing. -
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