Professionalism in Competitive Cross Fire
Comments
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ontopic: (to poleus or w/e your name is) you made a topic about competitive cross fire when you're not a part of it. Way to go! tl;dr btw, I was told you were an idiot anyways.
I would suggest you take your negative and rude statements elsewhere. YOU are a perfect example of the thread I made. Thank you for that. I'm glad I could get a real live specimen of what's wrong with the competitive community. If you don't have anything constructive to add to the post, I will be obliged to remove your posts and you from this thread. Questions? -
I'm absolutely tired of hearing this topic. If you want respect in a match, go play in a professional staring competition. And I feel those who b#tch about it are jaded and far too inexperienced for the fast paced, hard hitting scene you call 'e-Sports'. I can understand peoples feelings towards direct insults/attacks. But as I say; "Say what you please, but own up to what happens to you..." [Everyone knows this with me...Fall is coming quick and what has happened in the past will be confronted.]. If you take 2-3 jabs here or there on a personal level, ok. But when you make a campaign out of it, and it's non stop then you can step in. Everything else- ...no. Don't water down the scene by even conjuring up policies to prevent this, or action to combat it. Your organization WILL NOT get looked at any differently. More so steer people away....The last thing I want to do as a player is prepare my game, practice my game, and watch my mouth. I say keep the median open for the spirit and heat of competition, but moderate it's flow. Moderate at a fair and knowledgeable discretion. ALL these feuds eventually fizzle. Closing, deleting, warning only fuels the fire. Old stories get old, people eventually stop. Let them say what they need to say, play like they want to play. The psych game is just as important...
Cross Fire Reference: The most prestige and respected team in Cross Fire [Drag A;B] DOES NOT say good game, nor do they really acknowledge the match. Does that make them less of professionals?
Counter-Strike Reference: Mr. Lake...the infamous manager [compLexity]. ANYONE who has ever followed Counter-Strike will know...this guy will gut you and your family face to face, on the webs, anywhere. No holds bar. Craig Levine was the same way. They would talk so much sh#t it was insanity. The two MOST RESPECT e-SPORT MANAGERS OF ALL TIME. Jason was the devil. He was in everyone's head, and he ALWAYS went as low as possible. He was less of a professional manager?
E-Sports is a characters game...Lose the characters and you lose story. You lose the story you lose interest. Too many teenagers in here arguing against it...This has been e-Sports since it began. Get with it, or get out. F' You and your friends, your friends friends, and their friends friends parents. Your off game, your wack, and your gf is a sucia. K?
Worry less about conduct, and more about gameplay... -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I would suggest you take your negative and rude statements elsewhere. YOU are a perfect example of the thread I made. Thank you for that. I'm glad I could get a real live specimen of what's wrong with the competitive community. If you don't have anything constructive to add to the post, I will be obliged to remove your posts and you from this thread. Questions?
tl;dr
I didn't say one rude thing. ezpz -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »My point is that it's not just up to the people. Kind of like a rebellious teenager, they aren't just going to change because their parents told them to change and left them alone. Someone has to step in and give them a slap in the head and punish them for doing wrong. You want to act like a moron on the forums and embarrass yourself and your team? Why don't you sit out a game and take some time to think about it? Etc.
I don't disagree. -
You have teams like vVv LifeLine, ProCore.LPK, Instinct, do work son. Trio, and some other notable top teams that are too stuck up to help any of the lower tier teams in CF over on the NA side. Doop has one of the biggest egos on The forums, yes he can back it up, but why be a total ***** about everythig. I honestly think they need better competition in the game or they won't even come close if they make it past the national qualifier for WCG. It's a sad community and this game is slowly dieing because of it.
NOBODY in this community owes anyone. If they want to help, cool. But if if not, don't hate them. They didn't get where they are, and stay where they are from sharing secrets. This comes with experience. EVERYONE starts on the bottom. We learn as we play; We grow as we win/lose. That's the nature of this game. There's been people who've tried helping. Though it came with a price, if you want it you'll buy it. Their game plans, plays and strats have worked well for them. You don't deserve their salt & pepper for free. Watch them and learn if you want to grow in such a hurry....
Thinking any one of the top teams owes it to the community to mentor them...that's asinine... -
If you take 2-3 jabs here or there on a personal level, ok. But when you make a campaign out of it, and it's non stop then you can step in. Everything else- ...no. Don't water down the scene by even conjuring up policies to prevent this, or action to combat it. Your organization WILL NOT get looked at any differently. More so steer people away....The last thing I want to do as a player is prepare my game, practice my game, and watch my mouth. I say keep the median open for the spirit and heat of competition, but moderate it's flow. Moderate at a fair and knowledgeable discretion.
This is what I'm trying to get at. As I said before, I believe it should be REGULATED, not completely stopped. Rivalry and trash talking is apart of eSports and always will be. Conjuring up policies to prevent it would just take more time and probably hurt more than help. By no means did I say it should all be prevented, just closely watched for those times where it does go too far. -
Eh, I've had enough of anything competitive from Indonesia. Back during the sweet LAN days. CS 1.6 ftw.
Cod4, promod JaW.
LANFEST Columbus,Ohio-2nd Place
Mount Vernon LAN Cod4-3rd Place
Cod4 FFA Columbus LAN-1st
Just Add Water Champs of WANFEST
Never was disrespected on that game. People become friends with you instead of trolling on Cod4. -
Aw.... sucks to be american in COD4, NA scene is as dead as Charlie Sheen's brain.Cod4, promod JaW.
LANFEST Columbus,Ohio-2nd Place
Mount Vernon LAN Cod4-3rd Place
Cod4 FFA Columbus LAN-1st
Just Add Water Champs of WANFEST
Never was disrespected on that game. People become friends with you instead of trolling on Cod4. -
Aw.... sucks to be american in COD4, NA scene is as dead as Charlie Sheen's brain.
I quit a year ago. All germans who are better then the US teams.. I love the game so much that I play with Germans and learned some German for callouts and play with 300 ping.
De-Di-Ca-Ti-on. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I understand that you may be open to helping someone, but not everyone is. That's simple fact. He's right in the sense that A LOT of competitive teams will not reach out and help others, they will just stick to themselves. I'm sure a lot of teams don't want to ask in afraid to get a response other than what you said, "If you want help ask for it". Some players will not be that gracious and I applaud you for doing so. However, such is not the case with everyone and the "closed-off" attitude by so many, seem to ruin the fact that few are willing to help, so they don't ask.
LPK and Instinct don't get along. Everytime there has been a, you serious is that legal moment? They explained it. If LPK and Instinct can work together, I think just about anyone can.Professionalism is also bound upon the fact that players blame other players for mistakes. If a player dies, it's usually someone other than their's fault. Very rarely will you find a player that is humble and states that, "That's my fault guys, sorry."
You aren't playing with good players then. It's not a matter of professionalism, in that case it is a matter of skill.[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I would suggest you take your negative and rude statements elsewhere. YOU are a perfect example of the thread I made. Thank you for that. I'm glad I could get a real live specimen of what's wrong with the competitive community. If you don't have anything constructive to add to the post, I will be obliged to remove your posts and you from this thread. Questions?
tom is one of the most "professional" people i have met in crossfire. there's more to professionalism than gracious professionalism.I'm absolutely tired of hearing this topic. If you want respect in a match, go play in a professional staring competition. And I feel those who b#tch about it are jaded and far too inexperienced for the fast paced, hard hitting scene you call 'e-Sports'. I can understand peoples feelings towards direct insults/attacks. But as I say; "Say what you please, but own up to what happens to you..." [Everyone knows this with me...Fall is coming quick and what has happened in the past will be confronted.]. If you take 2-3 jabs here or there on a personal level, ok. But when you make a campaign out of it, and it's non stop then you can step in. Everything else- ...no. Don't water down the scene by even conjuring up policies to prevent this, or action to combat it. Your organization WILL NOT get looked at any differently. More so steer people away....The last thing I want to do as a player is prepare my game, practice my game, and watch my mouth. I say keep the median open for the spirit and heat of competition, but moderate it's flow. Moderate at a fair and knowledgeable discretion. ALL these feuds eventually fizzle. Closing, deleting, warning only fuels the fire. Old stories get old, people eventually stop. Let them say what they need to say, play like they want to play. The psych game is just as important...
Cross Fire Reference: The most prestige and respected team in Cross Fire [Drag A;B] DOES NOT say good game, nor do they really acknowledge the match. Does that make them less of professionals?
Counter-Strike Reference: Mr. Lake...the infamous manager [compLexity]. ANYONE who has ever followed Counter-Strike will know...this guy will gut you and your family face to face, on the webs, anywhere. No holds bar. Craig Levine was the same way. They would talk so much sh#t it was insanity. The two MOST RESPECT e-SPORT MANAGERS OF ALL TIME. Jason was the devil. He was in everyone's head, and he ALWAYS went as low as possible. He was less of a professional manager?
E-Sports is a characters game...Lose the characters and you lose story. You lose the story you lose interest. Too many teenagers in here arguing against it...This has been e-Sports since it began. Get with it, or get out. F' You and your friends, your friends friends, and their friends friends parents. Your off game, your wack, and your gf is a sucia. K?
Worry less about conduct, and more about gameplay...
well said.
in random EG news storm/frod out and pauly/hero in.
in random cf news, i believe dragon ab lost in a qualifier. that or google crome lies to me. -
What a joke.
I'm sure YOU would know sooooooooo much more about the European scene then me and YOU would know that of course every single german, pt, polish w/e team has FLAWLESS English. HOW WOULD I KNOW? Of course how did I forget, you've had sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much experience playing all across the European community. What a spastic I am.I'm absolutely tired of hearing this topic. If you want respect in a match, go play in a professional staring competition. And I feel those who b#tch about it are jaded and far too inexperienced for the fast paced, hard hitting scene you call 'e-Sports'. I can understand peoples feelings towards direct insults/attacks. But as I say; "Say what you please, but own up to what happens to you..." [Everyone knows this with me...Fall is coming quick and what has happened in the past will be confronted.]. If you take 2-3 jabs here or there on a personal level, ok. But when you make a campaign out of it, and it's non stop then you can step in. Everything else- ...no. Don't water down the scene by even conjuring up policies to prevent this, or action to combat it. Your organization WILL NOT get looked at any differently. More so steer people away....The last thing I want to do as a player is prepare my game, practice my game, and watch my mouth. I say keep the median open for the spirit and heat of competition, but moderate it's flow. Moderate at a fair and knowledgeable discretion. ALL these feuds eventually fizzle. Closing, deleting, warning only fuels the fire. Old stories get old, people eventually stop. Let them say what they need to say, play like they want to play. The psych game is just as important...
Cross Fire Reference: The most prestige and respected team in Cross Fire [Drag A;B] DOES NOT say good game, nor do they really acknowledge the match. Does that make them less of professionals?
Counter-Strike Reference: Mr. Lake...the infamous manager [compLexity]. ANYONE who has ever followed Counter-Strike will know...this guy will gut you and your family face to face, on the webs, anywhere. No holds bar. Craig Levine was the same way. They would talk so much sh#t it was insanity. The two MOST RESPECT e-SPORT MANAGERS OF ALL TIME. Jason was the devil. He was in everyone's head, and he ALWAYS went as low as possible. He was less of a professional manager?
E-Sports is a characters game...Lose the characters and you lose story. You lose the story you lose interest. Too many teenagers in here arguing against it...This has been e-Sports since it began. Get with it, or get out. F' You and your friends, your friends friends, and their friends friends parents. Your off game, your wack, and your gf is a sucia. K?
Worry less about conduct, and more about gameplay...
This isnt a boxing chat son. I don't know how you could say e-sports is 'hard-hitting'. the only reason i'm here playing this stupid game is because of knee injuries I was picking up continously in real sports. I've watched some of these ''css/1.6 pro's '' lanning. I wouldnt call them hard hitters. The only one i'd be a bit cautious beside would be that guy from fnatic [i think??] called markeloffe or w/e. He could sit on me
. The talking here and the actual competeting going on here is nowhere near the stuff that goes on in proper sports. Hell, I don't even know why i'm here comparing the two. Snakes and Ladders is more similar. -
He was referring to your english being a joke as well, I'm pretty sure. Not disagreeing with you. You're calling particular countries out and our education while you can't type properly either.I'm sure YOU would know sooooooooo much more about the European scene then me and YOU would know that of course every single german, pt, polish w/e team has FLAWLESS English. HOW WOULD I KNOW? Of course how did I forget, you've had sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much experience playing all across the European community. What a spastic I am. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Let's not get into small arguments over who types a certain way alrighty?
I'm surprised it's been decent for this long, haha.
As am I. Did you ever or will ever play competitively? Just a question. Only one mod ever has, well bruce as well. -
He was referring to your english being a joke as well, I'm pretty sure. Not disagreeing with you. You're calling particular countries out and our education while you can't type properly either.
Oh lord, I wrote they're instead of their. Didnt realise my forum posts were to be part of my C.V. -
trash talking is best thing about competitive gaming imo, rufus hates me on forums but i love to sh1t stir, everyone thinks i hate doop but id actually buy him a beer just the way the penny drops, forums give the fans a story to follow often the actual behind the scene's, player's, team's, personality's all get on imo keep the trash i love it ... just my drunken opinion...[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I have sat by and watched teams compete with one another for quite some time. While I have not personally competed in these events, I have gained quite a perspective as an outsider looking in on the lack of Professionalism in our community. While this does not apply to all teams, this does apply to many of them.
So, I ask the question, why is there such a lack of Professionalism within our community of competition? Is it the lack of enforcement from the Gaming Organization to instill those ideals in teams that participate in their events? Is it the age of the community that's causing it? Is this simply how eSports has been, is, and always will be?
I understand that eSports will always have trash talking. That's inevitable between two or more teams competing for a prize or title. Rivalries will always grow between teams and players alike. That's very understandable, that's sports in general. However, is there not a line where that becomes unnecessary? Is there not a line where a player or team leader simply crosses to where they make their entire team look unprofessional? Does "image" mean anything to you as players? As teams? It seems the majority of you will not hesitate to publicly jump on someone for missing a shot, or performing bad in a game, or any number of reasons. Is it really necessary?
What happened to wishing your opponent luck, playing out the game, and then wishing the winner a good game or showing humility towards a team that you beat? When did human standards go out the window for a lot of you? I understand teams want to win, but is it completely necessary to forget about the ideal of professionalism?- Example: Team A sees that a player on Team B is using a flash guard in the early rounds of the game. Team A decides not to notify the opposing team in order to be able to dispute the game in the event Team A loses. A lot you will say, that's part of the game and part of winning. I say, that's nonsense and you should have the decency and want to play on a fair ground. How can the sanctity of eSports be upheld when so many players fail to follow a simple set of ideals that uphold maturity and professionalism?
Discuss. -
trash talking is best thing about competitive gaming imo, rufus hates me on forums but i love to sh1t stir, everyone thinks i hate doop but id actually buy him a beer just the way the penny drops, forums give the fans a story to follow often the actual behind the scene's, player's, team's, personality's all get on imo keep the trash i love it ... just my drunken opinion...
Rivalry and trash talking is NOT wrong, just my opinion that it needs to be moderated when it gets out of hand. You can chatter back and forth and stir up some controversy without insulting a player's well being, family, personal values, etc.
I repeat what Doop said:
"The issue is that the player's aren't insulting the other player's game, they are insulting the player directly."
As said in my original post, I understand trash talking is a part of competition. There is a line however that needs to be moderated by the Organization that supposedly sets out to uphold the spirit of Competitive and Professional eSports events. Just because eSports HAS been that way, doesn't mean it has to always be that way. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Let's not specifically turn this towards one organization. That was my fault for that. I understand classic rivalries, they exist across all sports. Rivalries is what makes match-ups interesting and entertaining to lead up to and watch. That's all good and well, but rivalries and "trash talking" do not need to cross the line into blatant insults. It's simply not necessary.
Putting it down on paper and enforcing it, for any organization are two different animals. I am also referring to etiquette OUTSIDE of just your match. I'm talking about overall representation and professionalism as a competitive team for a particular game, in this case CF.
Polleus
I will way in on this from the league side of things. The enforcement of this is always up to the teams playing. We can't be in all matches however we have and will continue to enforce this when valid evidence is provided by teams that are playing in a competitive WOGL event. However public play and behavior outside of our website and events remains beyond a leagues control. However if Z8 were to implement there own rules toward this WOGL would stand by not allowing players to compete sue to their behavior at Z8's forums and in game. This is what it would take for at least WOGL to do something about this issue. Hope this helps. -
i like you till you quoted the dodge[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Rivalry and trash talking is NOT wrong, just my opinion that it needs to be moderated when it gets out of hand. You can chatter back and forth and stir up some controversy without insulting a player's well being, family, personal values, etc.
I repeat what Doop said:
"The issue is that the player's aren't insulting the other player's game, they are insulting the player directly."
As said in my original post, I understand trash talking is a part of competition. There is a line however that needs to be moderated by the Organization that supposedly sets out to uphold the spirit of Competitive and Professional eSports events. Just because eSports HAS been that way, doesn't mean it has to always be that way.
i agree with ya -
However public play and behavior outside of our website and events remains beyond a leagues control. However if Z8 were to implement there own rules toward this WOGL would stand by not allowing players to compete sue to their behavior at Z8's forums and in game.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. While yes, you have no actual control over players outside your website, you DO have control over their status in your League events. It is not up to Z8Games to enforce your League standards. If your standard is stated that your off-the-field conduct CAN have an affect on your league status, then it is up to YOU to enforce such.
As a League CEO or Director, I would be WELL within my rights to sit a player out for excessively causing turmoil in the Cross Fire community forums. As a competitive team, you should be held to a higher standard. Tell me, in all sports, do players not get punished for misconduct on or off the field? That is the organization's job, not Z8Games.
If you have the set of ideals and the standard that you want to preserve the professionalism and spirit of eSports, then you commit to that and uphold it through what you CAN control, team/player status and violation punishment. I believe you have complete rights to do so. You are not denying them the service of Cross Fire, you are denying them the right to play in your Organization for screwing up and making an embarrassment of themselves and their team. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. While yes, you have no actual control over players outside your website, you DO have control over their status in your League events. It is not up to Z8Games to enforce your League standards. If your standard is stated that your off-the-field conduct CAN have an affect on your league status, then it is up to YOU to enforce such.
As a League CEO or Director, I would be WELL within my rights to sit a player out for excessively causing turmoil in the Cross Fire community forums. As a competitive team, you should be held to a higher standard. Tell me, in all sports, do players not get punished for misconduct on or off the field? That is the organization's job, not Z8Games.
If you have the set of ideals and the standard that you want to preserve the professionalism and spirit of eSports, then you commit to that and uphold it through what you CAN control, team/player status and violation punishment. I believe you have complete rights to do so. You are not denying them the service of Cross Fire, you are denying them the right to play in your Organization for screwing up and making an embarrassment of themselves and their team.
while i think you status as moderator is impartial to these thing's i think you have a point, WOGL isnt giving the community what they deserve[in more ways than one] imo stayed tuned for mayhem tv we took a month out for professional set up stay tuned....... -
but really no one really shows respect to anyone, it's normal because it's over the internet, you can talk sh1t without any consequences. People some how think they are bad ass when very little was accomplished. Apparently manners are void on the internet.
It's true, it's almost something that people do without thinking about it. Growing up, we yell at electronics and other faceless items when we're upset about something or it's not working as expected. I think people talk **** to others on the internet almost out of subconscious habits they have formed over the years because even though its common knowledge there is obviously someone sitting behind that computer, it still feels like this faceless mechanical object.
I can say first hand, a lot of people you've known to talk **** online are some of the nicest people you'll meet in person if you ever go to a LAN :P (this goes for any game).[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Alright, but can a Gaming Organization take it upon themselves to more strictly enforce the ideals of Professionalism?
- Actions within the community, i.e. Forum Trolling other teams with blatant disrespect, being punished on the League side.
- Penalties for excessive public trash talking (where it gets out of hand in-game or on the forums). As I said there is a line, punishments when it crosses that line?
Etc.
Here's the problem with that, and keep in mind I'm not trying to bash this game. The gaming organization's that are in this game, aren't really the "professional" organizations you would see upholding these kind of values in other games. Even then there is always trash talking to some degree, but these teams will be a lot more lax on these situations as they don't take themselves as serious as some of the other "big names".vVvBLITZED wrote: »In my opinion talk is cheap. Why not define yourself rather than "psych" out your opponent? What's wrong with relying on nothing but yourself to accomplish your own goals?
There will always be the players that want to stroke their e-peen and be "that team" that constantly talks trash after winning. I've made it a point with all of my teams in the past not to talk excessive trash. If someone starts in on us, sure, have fun trolling them back, but none of my players will ever go out of their way to put a team or other players down in any game I play. A lot of the responsibility is with the leader of said team and how they want to be seen in the community. To me I'd rather be respected and rooted for, than hated. But to each their own I guess.
While I agree this doesn't pertain to everyone in the community, this community seems to be right on par with most free2play shooters. I've played quite a few others and I'd say it's really no different in those.
I really don't play actively in this community, just install the game with some friends when I hear there is a big event coming up. Because most of my players (Team Exile) actively play other games as well so we never really get a chance to scrim/practice; But when we do have the chance, most of the decent teams we play actually treat us with respect in-game. That is unless you play in the clan server, which lets be honest you can't really count that as competition anyway.
I think a lot of it is when you come in and play a free2play shooter, you have to develop thick skin when dealing with other players in game. You'll see a lot more foreign cheaters/spammers/trash talkers in a f2p game. Rather than this helping people develop a tolerance, I think it just sets a bad tone for people and everyone kind of plays along with it whether they know it or not. -
Originally Posted by BOBBY View PostI'm absolutely tired of hearing this topic. If you want respect in a match, go play in a professional staring competition. And I feel those who b#tch about it are jaded and far too inexperienced for the fast paced, hard hitting scene you call 'e-Sports'. I can understand peoples feelings towards direct insults/attacks. But as I say; "Say what you please, but own up to what happens to you..." [Everyone knows this with me...Fall is coming quick and what has happened in the past will be confronted.]. If you take 2-3 jabs here or there on a personal level, ok. But when you make a campaign out of it, and it's non stop then you can step in. Everything else- ...no. Don't water down the scene by even conjuring up policies to prevent this, or action to combat it. Your organization WILL NOT get looked at any differently. More so steer people away....The last thing I want to do as a player is prepare my game, practice my game, and watch my mouth. I say keep the median open for the spirit and heat of competition, but moderate it's flow. Moderate at a fair and knowledgeable discretion. ALL these feuds eventually fizzle. Closing, deleting, warning only fuels the fire. Old stories get old, people eventually stop. Let them say what they need to say, play like they want to play. The psych game is just as important...
Cross Fire Reference: The most prestige and respected team in Cross Fire [Drag A;B] DOES NOT say good game, nor do they really acknowledge the match. Does that make them less of professionals?
Counter-Strike Reference: Mr. Lake...the infamous manager [compLexity]. ANYONE who has ever followed Counter-Strike will know...this guy will gut you and your family face to face, on the webs, anywhere. No holds bar. Craig Levine was the same way. They would talk so much sh#t it was insanity. The two MOST RESPECT e-SPORT MANAGERS OF ALL TIME. Jason was the devil. He was in everyone's head, and he ALWAYS went as low as possible. He was less of a professional manager?
E-Sports is a characters game...Lose the characters and you lose story. You lose the story you lose interest. Too many teenagers in here arguing against it...This has been e-Sports since it began. Get with it, or get out. F' You and your friends, your friends friends, and their friends friends parents. Your off game, your wack, and your gf is a sucia. K?
Worry less about conduct, and more about gameplay...
i have to agree with this statement.
![[MOD]Polleus](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/7/navatar_8918107.gif){kind=avatar}
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