Ping VS. Ping
Comments
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RussianRtl wrote: »You are in an advantage: you see me first, you can shoot at me first and kill me without taking any damage even if I hit you or HS you. BUT if u miss me, but I HS u, you are expecting not to die? wtf r u talking about kid?
i can shoot you in the head, see your blood spurt out all over the floor then have you shoot me behind the wall.
gg? -
i can shoot you in the head, see your blood spurt out all over the floor then have you shoot me behind the wall.
gg?
Happens to me in every single game. And there is no difference if the guy has a low or high ping, only that the lowpinger "tanks" more of my hits. Its all about the game mechanic and the reg. -
high pingers just tank gg
There is no reason why this would happen. The only tanking you'd see is sometimes the net coding fails. This happens to everyone, it's not often and it's not major, so stop crying.
If your gonna make a point at least back it up with some reason/logic
oh and once again
Fail troll is fail -
RussianRtl wrote: »Happens to me in every single game. And there is no difference if the guy has a low or high ping, only that the lowpinger "tanks" more of my hits. Its all about the game mechanic and the reg.
iv seen things happen like this b4,once killed a guy and 2 seconds later he died,then there was a guy i threw a nade at,then after 4 seconds it "Registered" as a nade kill...and ofcourse all the times i'm behind a wall with curving bullets. -
iv seen things happen like this b4,once killed a guy and 2 seconds later he died,then there was a guy i threw a nade at,then after 4 seconds it "Registered" as a nade kill...and ofcourse all the times i'm behind a wall with curving bullets.
Thats CF lag, not necessarily ping Lag.
I through a nade earlier in GM, was a quite a big delay between it exploding and this guy dying, Both our pings seemed to be 100ish.
Anyway im done on thsi thread, read through my other posts, i tried to explain everything best i could. I've done networking and Gameprogramming in college so i know a bit about it. O well :P -
RussianRtl wrote: »You are in an advantage: you see me first, you can shoot at me first and kill me without taking any damage even if I hit you or HS you. BUT if u miss me, but I HS u, you are expecting not to die? wtf r u talking about kid?
hahaha what? that doesnt even make sense at all.... use the Edit tool at the bottom to fix ur stupid posts....like i said its a split second that u dont see me cuz my ping is lower, ill try and word it from GR point of view, ur sitting there guarding window, a guy jumps out to try and shoot you, he misses and then u shoot at him and kill him, but from his veiw he was already hidden after he shot? how does that not make sense. -
saintNooby wrote: »Amazing player? stfu baddie
Though you could argue as to how good I am, there is one thing for sure, and that is that I am not bad.
So much fail in this thread that it hurts. I have played not only in the West Coast Server with 120 ping but also in the Japanese server with 210 ping. I get on a normal day 13-14 ping on the normal servers.
So i'm positive that I can speak for just about any ping range there is. I'm also positive that the knowledge from playing this game well and for a long period of time has given me insight into how this game mostly works. On top of that I have experience in MANY other first person shooter games.
On top of all that I am studying networking as well as computer systems.
Those above reasons, combined with plain logic are what give me the ability to point out all your flaws.
So lets start with the original reason this thread was started. Something i'm going to call Invisible Peaking and Curving Bullets. For both of these it happens no matter the ping difference, however I have found that the bigger the gap the farther out a person can get before the model of the player is seen or hides around a corner or object.
Invisible Peaking before most people came to realize it as bad coding would be called getting shot through walls (not boxes). It would look as if the bullets would fly through the wall and the person would most likely die before the model was seen on the screen. I have tested this with some players from different pings. 13 pings of me, bunz and ivan. 68-70 ping of uMad and 180-200 ping of oops. I won't speak for any of them, but I am fast. Really fast. Yet when they would pop around the corner, even with me knowing they are going to peak along with hearing the footsteps (did without me pre-firing to the sound of the footsteps.) and they would still get off 3-5 bullets to my single one shot. In some cases the person getting peaked wouldn't even get off a single bullet. Try this out for yourself.
Ways to offset this are if the model is rendered before he peaks out, or if he peaks out slower. Examples would be if the person runs out with the gun first not looking your way, really only does this if its a rifle and a long rifle at that. The game renders the gun as part of the model and reduces the time of the Invisible Peak. Same goes with walking or crouching out around a corner. The game seems to need the fast momentum to really give you an Invisible Peak. The last one I have found is if the players gun is sticking through a wall as he peaks. Similar to the first way, gun is rendered before they move around the corner/object. Also gives away the player.
The above reasons are why I dislike the Spop character. Argue all you want that they do or do not have the same hitboxes, they do not have the same model. The Spop model is smaller and can therefore peak farther. To add, they can also hide behind objects easier, though the name still appears even if you can't 'see' them.
Curving Bullets are when you get shot behind the wall even though from your angle all you can see is wall. A misconception is that this only happens against high pingers. I could cite all different times this has happened or i've tested it, and once again it is the same as the Invisible Peak. The greater the gap in ping, the farther behind/longer time behind the object or wall the person can be and still get shot.
Something you may not know is that what your view encompasses is not your entire character. Parts of your character's body does not follow with your point of view. This is one of the reasons you are still shot while you hide behind a wall. You may just see the edge of the corner, but about a forth of your body (maybe slightly smaller) is still sticking out.
Again with the Spop character, though they can still get shot behind the walls, they have an even smaller part of their body that is not in the point of view. Also again, hiding is made that much easier with the Spop character.
Because I am getting entirely bored of explaining this I will only briefly tell you of playing in the other ping ranges. Also, if anyone has blood on and believes that it is and should (though it really should) be a good indication of when you hit, is bad. Look no further than Counter-strike and its client sided blood. Same deal with this, except worse coding and more laggers.
At 13 ping against lower ping people I am sure most of my bullets register. There are times when I will see exactly where my bullet hits, see the person flinch or even see the person flinch in mid-air (obviously if they were jumping) and drop straight down to the ground. In each of these there are times when I die and behold a beautiful zero damage. Or times where the only part of the body I can see is the head and still deal twenty damage. This all happens fairly rarely against these types of pingers.
Against mid-high pingers, being around 100-150, I notice the same things as before, except it happens a little bit more (obviously).
Again with the high pingers 150+, I find many of my bullets hitting but minimal damage compared to the bullets I fire.
On the West Coast server with my 110-120 ping I noticed almost the exact same thing. My shots would register fairly nice against low pings, pretty good against mid pings and decent against high pings.
On the Japanese server is where I found it really interesting with my 200-210 ping. Everyone there, besides the few players like myself, have very low pings. I won't say the game was entirely enjoyable, or that I could play to my full capacity, but I did notice that I could kill almost exactly as easily.
What I learned from playing with these different pings is a few things. First being that the higher the ping the longer it took to respond to things. This being picking up, dropping or changing weapons took a long time (my quick-switching habit was really annoying) and even kills took longer to register. That being said, my kills would always register. I can see why high pingers say 'I had to empty half a clip to kill so and so'. The truth is, you don't need to, you just need to trust that your shots hit. Same with grenades. The problem is that the game runs smooth even if you lag, so you don't really feel the lag. That is a problem for both you and anyone else as your game is saying that it runs smooth to you, and to the server, but your ping does not match it. On top of that, while playing with higher pings, I found that if I kept moving I would get shot a lot less. Don't get me wrong, I obviously strafe while under 13 ping, but I just found that continually moving at high pings made it near impossible to die even with two people shooting at me. And before you ask about score, try going with an 8-10 kdr through the games.
A few other things to mention is Frames Per Second. High or Low pingers, if you have very low frames, you are not sending nor receiving enough information and therfore appear as though teleporting or skipping. Combine this with the fact that the models (especially the Spop) have tendencies to appear like this anyway. Then combine both those with the fact that high pingers always appear and move like this, and you have yourself one hell of a hard target to hit. So in-case anyone can't understand what I said here, three ways to make a person look like they teleport or skip:
1.Have low FPS
2.Have a high ping or if you are lagging/spiking
3.The inherent bad model movement.
So, as a low pinger with high fps, I have only one out of three.
As a high pinger with high fps, you have two out of three.
And obviously a high pinger with low fps, you have all three.
So what am I saying? First of all, opposed to Saintnooby, I am a good player. Not only that, being used to a low ping and being a good shot allows me to trust that I did in fact hit the person. Next, low pingers, despite what the majority of high pingers believe, have better reg (being shot at) than high pingers and usually have smoother model movement. On top of that, throw in the bad coding and interp. Higher pings are at less of a disadvantage than they believe, and even have advantages over low pingers.
Oh, also, in before someone mentions two people standing still with a low pinger and a high pinger. If you don't know who will win then you are absolutely ret.arded.
So don't get me wrong, I don't want people to have high pings. If I could I would have everyone play at the same ping. However, having played as a low, mid and high pinger, I can say that you are all full of yourselves. Stop making excuses about your ping. You are the anomaly in the game. The low pingers are the ones who can complain, not you.
End. Rant. Also, if you are going to call me a baddie, care to back it up? Please, go ahead and try me. -
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saintNooby wrote: »Those figures are realistic.
150+ Ping is where you get the 'laggers', People who teleport. etc..
Even for me with a 120 ping, I can see you guys lagging/tanking.
I remember when the servers were all crashing, so i played in West Coast server, Had average ping of about 180, I was a hell of a lot better than with my normal ping. Even though low pingers tank'd more.
200+ Ping do have advantages. A high pinger see's you before the you see them. For example when a high pinger jumps from behind a wall, He can see you , But you cant see him because his movement hasn't registered yet. Therefore he has that advantage. It's why many high pingers are falsely accused of wallhacks.
Your basing your entire argument on the fact you played WCS and your ping was 180 and you Pwnd better? lol
The average Ping in the WCS is much higher then other servers. Your opponents had higher pings than your used to. Their higher average ping gave you that advantage. Its not uncommon to have 2 or 3 300 plus pings in a WCS game.
This really is not rocket science and I'm baffled by the disconnect.
Its about communication Speed to the server (Period) The SERVER is KING!
Doesnt matter where the 200 pinger thinks he is at. It only matters what the Server thinks. See your opponent as the server see's him...You achieve your opponent.
LOW PING means you see what the server sees. The server determines whether the shots connect. Not your opponents PC.
I move to Northern California from South Korea this coming week. I wont be playing that much until my household good arrive from Seoul. I'll play on the laptop from time to time.
But when I'm settled I expect my ping to be around 40. From 155 to 40? Woot!
Psypher -
Though you could argue as to how good I am, there is one thing for sure, and that is that I am not bad.
So much fail in this thread that it hurts. I have played not only in the West Coast Server with 120 ping but also in the Japanese server with 210 ping. I get on a normal day 13-14 ping on the normal servers.
So i'm positive that I can speak for just about any ping range there is. I'm also positive that the knowledge from playing this game well and for a long period of time has given me insight into how this game mostly works. On top of that I have experience in MANY other first person shooter games.
On top of all that I am studying networking as well as computer systems.
Those above reasons, combined with plain logic are what give me the ability to point out all your flaws.
So lets start with the original reason this thread was started. Something i'm going to call Invisible Peaking and Curving Bullets. For both of these it happens no matter the ping difference, however I have found that the bigger the gap the farther out a person can get before the model of the player is seen or hides around a corner or object.
Invisible Peaking before most people came to realize it as bad coding would be called getting shot through walls (not boxes). It would look as if the bullets would fly through the wall and the person would most likely die before the model was seen on the screen. I have tested this with some players from different pings. 13 pings of me, bunz and ivan. 68-70 ping of uMad and 180-200 ping of oops. I won't speak for any of them, but I am fast. Really fast. Yet when they would pop around the corner, even with me knowing they are going to peak along with hearing the footsteps (did without me pre-firing to the sound of the footsteps.) and they would still get off 3-5 bullets to my single one shot. In some cases the person getting peaked wouldn't even get off a single bullet. Try this out for yourself.
Ways to offset this are if the model is rendered before he peaks out, or if he peaks out slower. Examples would be if the person runs out with the gun first not looking your way, really only does this if its a rifle and a long rifle at that. The game renders the gun as part of the model and reduces the time of the Invisible Peak. Same goes with walking or crouching out around a corner. The game seems to need the fast momentum to really give you an Invisible Peak. The last one I have found is if the players gun is sticking through a wall as he peaks. Similar to the first way, gun is rendered before they move around the corner/object. Also gives away the player.
The above reasons are why I dislike the Spop character. Argue all you want that they do or do not have the same hitboxes, they do not have the same model. The Spop model is smaller and can therefore peak farther. To add, they can also hide behind objects easier, though the name still appears even if you can't 'see' them.
Curving Bullets are when you get shot behind the wall even though from your angle all you can see is wall. A misconception is that this only happens against high pingers. I could cite all different times this has happened or i've tested it, and once again it is the same as the Invisible Peak. The greater the gap in ping, the farther behind/longer time behind the object or wall the person can be and still get shot.
Something you may not know is that what your view encompasses is not your entire character. Parts of your character's body does not follow with your point of view. This is one of the reasons you are still shot while you hide behind a wall. You may just see the edge of the corner, but about a forth of your body (maybe slightly smaller) is still sticking out.
Again with the Spop character, though they can still get shot behind the walls, they have an even smaller part of their body that is not in the point of view. Also again, hiding is made that much easier with the Spop character.
Because I am getting entirely bored of explaining this I will only briefly tell you of playing in the other ping ranges. Also, if anyone has blood on and believes that it is and should (though it really should) be a good indication of when you hit, is bad. Look no further than Counter-strike and its client sided blood. Same deal with this, except worse coding and more laggers.
At 13 ping against lower ping people I am sure most of my bullets register. There are times when I will see exactly where my bullet hits, see the person flinch or even see the person flinch in mid-air (obviously if they were jumping) and drop straight down to the ground. In each of these there are times when I die and behold a beautiful zero damage. Or times where the only part of the body I can see is the head and still deal twenty damage. This all happens fairly rarely against these types of pingers.
Against mid-high pingers, being around 100-150, I notice the same things as before, except it happens a little bit more (obviously).
Again with the high pingers 150+, I find many of my bullets hitting but minimal damage compared to the bullets I fire.
On the West Coast server with my 110-120 ping I noticed almost the exact same thing. My shots would register fairly nice against low pings, pretty good against mid pings and decent against high pings.
On the Japanese server is where I found it really interesting with my 200-210 ping. Everyone there, besides the few players like myself, have very low pings. I won't say the game was entirely enjoyable, or that I could play to my full capacity, but I did notice that I could kill almost exactly as easily.
What I learned from playing with these different pings is a few things. First being that the higher the ping the longer it took to respond to things. This being picking up, dropping or changing weapons took a long time (my quick-switching habit was really annoying) and even kills took longer to register. That being said, my kills would always register. I can see why high pingers say 'I had to empty half a clip to kill so and so'. The truth is, you don't need to, you just need to trust that your shots hit. Same with grenades. The problem is that the game runs smooth even if you lag, so you don't really feel the lag. That is a problem for both you and anyone else as your game is saying that it runs smooth to you, and to the server, but your ping does not match it. On top of that, while playing with higher pings, I found that if I kept moving I would get shot a lot less. Don't get me wrong, I obviously strafe while under 13 ping, but I just found that continually moving at high pings made it near impossible to die even with two people shooting at me. And before you ask about score, try going with an 8-10 kdr through the games.
A few other things to mention is Frames Per Second. High or Low pingers, if you have very low frames, you are not sending nor receiving enough information and therfore appear as though teleporting or skipping. Combine this with the fact that the models (especially the Spop) have tendencies to appear like this anyway. Then combine both those with the fact that high pingers always appear and move like this, and you have yourself one hell of a hard target to hit. So in-case anyone can't understand what I said here, three ways to make a person look like they teleport or skip:
1.Have low FPS
2.Have a high ping or if you are lagging/spiking
3.The inherent bad model movement.
So, as a low pinger with high fps, I have only one out of three.
As a high pinger with high fps, you have two out of three.
And obviously a high pinger with low fps, you have all three.
So what am I saying? First of all, opposed to Saintnooby, I am a good player. Not only that, being used to a low ping and being a good shot allows me to trust that I did in fact hit the person. Next, low pingers, despite what the majority of high pingers believe, have better reg (being shot at) than high pingers and usually have smoother model movement. On top of that, throw in the bad coding and interp. Higher pings are at less of a disadvantage than they believe, and even have advantages over low pingers.
Oh, also, in before someone mentions two people standing still with a low pinger and a high pinger. If you don't know who will win then you are absolutely ret.arded.
So don't get me wrong, I don't want people to have high pings. If I could I would have everyone play at the same ping. However, having played as a low, mid and high pinger, I can say that you are all full of yourselves. Stop making excuses about your ping. You are the anomaly in the game. The low pingers are the ones who can complain, not you.
End. Rant. Also, if you are going to call me a baddie, care to back it up? Please, go ahead and try me.
Read it all. Nicely thought out...But its rubbish!
Low Ping is king.....The lower the better...Nothing more nothing less.
Not to mention at really high pings 300 plus switching to your Grenade can actually take 3 seconds. But I guess someone here will tell me this is an advantage as well?
Psypher. -
Your basing your entire argument on the fact you played WCS and your ping was 180 and you Pwnd better? lol
The average Ping in the WCS is much higher then other servers. Your opponents had higher pings than your used to. Their higher average ping gave you that advantage. Its not uncommon to have 2 or 3 300 plus pings in a WCS game.
This really is not rocket science and I'm baffled by the disconnect.
Its about communication Speed to the server (Period) The SERVER is KING!
Doesnt matter where the 200 pinger thinks he is at. It only matters what the Server thinks. See your opponent as the server see's him...You achieve your opponent.
LOW PING means you see what the server sees. The server determines whether the shots connect. Not your opponents PC.
I move to Northern California from South Korea this coming week. I wont be playing that much until my household good arrive from Seoul. I'll play on the laptop from time to time.
But when I'm settled I expect my ping to be around 40. From 155 to 40? Woot!
Psypher
And this is the exact reason why people telelport.
Lets say you send the server the information that you are going to move forward. It sees this and sends back a response, you've moved forward.
Then you spike and it doesn't recieve any information, so it assumes you stood still. But you didn't! So the next packets send the information that you are now 5 steps forward and lets say two to the left. Because this game has some faulty coding, the server accepts the information and puts you at that point.
So what has happened from someone else's point of view? You were running forward, they shoot at you but you suddenly stop (take into account the bad and already skippy model movement) and stop suddenly. They go to reposition their aim on you standing still, but right before they go to shoot you are suddenly a little bit further and to the left. You have teleported, congratulations.
Honestly, people coming in here talking about how the server is supposed to work when you don't know more than the words connection, ping and lag.
Edit:Read it all. Nicely thought out...But its rubbish!
Low Ping is king.....The lower the better...Nothing more nothing less.
Not to mention at really high pings 300 plus switching to your Grenade can actually take 3 seconds. But I guess someone here will tell me this is an advantage as well?
Psypher.
For lack of anything better to say, you are stupid. You read what I wrote, but you took something I said was bad and are implying I meant it as a good thing?
Sit down. -
I agree, I am buying armor then running around with my SPOP on with my Kriss blazing while I 360 spray off anything I can jump off of.
Hey My Cypherrr brother.
Ya with a low ping, Kriss, Spop, Armor and a Guiness!!!!!! Sweet.
But some here would tell you your Ping advantage will be Lost. lol
Actually where you might feel the pain is the people your playing with will have low pings too. Then you will get to see whjo is lord!
Psypher with a P Out -
And this is the exact reason why people telelport.
Lets say you send the server the information that you are going to move forward. It sees this and sends back a response, you've moved forward.
Then you spike and it doesn't recieve any information, so it assumes you stood still. But you didn't! So the next packets send the information that you are now 5 steps forward and lets say two to the left. Because this game has some faulty coding, the server accepts the information and puts you at that point.
So what has happened from someone else's point of view? You were running forward, they shoot at you but you suddenly stop (take into account the bad and already skippy model movement) and stop suddenly. They go to reposition their aim on you standing still, but right before they go to shoot you are suddenly a little bit further and to the left. You have teleported, congratulations.
Honestly, people coming in here talking about how the server is supposed to work when you don't know more than the words connection, ping and lag.
Edit:
For lack of anything better to say, you are stupid. You read what I wrote, but you took something I said was bad and are implying I meant it as a good thing?
Sit down.
Stupid? Awe now that hurts. Why the vitriol?
nice debate though
P -
Though I don't fault anyone for a lack of basic grammar when they are foreign, if you are going to try to argue or make a point in English, don't use Google Translator.
k thx.
Now that response was a master piece!
Dude, I'm sorry about calling your post rubbish. I re-read it, I had read it slightly wrong. For the most part. But anyone eluding the high pinger has any advantage baffles me. and in spots your post does elude that there may be an advantage to high pingers.
But thank you for a great post and taking the time to line it out. you obviously have a lot of insight.
And the translation was supplied by a 4 th grade Korean English student I know down in Pusan. Being a 45 year old American I have little command over the English language.
Take it easy
Psypher -
It works in different ways.
If high & low pinger are bursting and moving, the low pinger should win. The high pinger will be shooting further off, due to inaccuracy of what's displayed on his/her screen.
If a low pinger camps, he/she is dead. He/she does not see the rusher until too late. The high ping rusher does not send his/her location info to the server quickly, so the low pinger doesn't get to see the high pinger.
If a high pinger camps, he/she is dead. He/she does not see the rusher until too late, as the location info of the low pinger does not reach the high pinger's computer in time. -
saintNooby wrote: »I stick to my original point, Next time you look in WOGLs/Pugs any competitive play, I bet you they are all low pingers. Im also going to record some tanking, If i can get Xfire to work. Then you can see for yourself.
Its been done, only it was low pingers recording tanking on high pingers. Good try though.
Maybe next time you will think of something original. -
Its been done, only it was low pingers recording tanking on high pingers. Good try though.
Maybe next time you will think of something original.
200+ Pingers tank, Yes.
For me with 110-140 Ping, I do not tank, But low pingers tank for me.
Im done with you, Your clearly a stubborn american dbag. See for urself when UK server comes out. -
saintNooby wrote: »I stick to my original point, Next time you look in WOGLs/Pugs any competitive play, I bet you they are all low pingers. Im also going to record some tanking, If i can get Xfire to work. Then you can see for yourself.
The reason you see all WOGL/Pug players with low pings is because only Americans/Canadians are the ones who try and get involved with that sort of gameplay, and they all have relatively good pings.
As for people who have 120-200ping and try to complain, well its rubbish, I have played Japanese CF with a 120-200 ping and I do fine, not a difference at all, and if anything I actually TANK shots making it harder for the low pingers. Please do not stick to the excuse of having high ping, its useless. Deal with the 0.0000000001 ms difference of seeing the person. If your really not good enough to use tactical smarts to see the guy first and actually aim to kill, then you really need to rethink your game choice. -
The reason you see all WOGL/Pug players with low pings is because only Americans/Canadians are the ones who try and get involved with that sort of gameplay, and they all have relatively good pings.
As for people who have 120-200ping and try to complain, well its rubbish, I have played Japanese CF with a 120-200 ping and I do fine, not a difference at all, and if anything I actually TANK shots making it harder for the low pingers. Please do not stick to the excuse of having high ping, its useless. Deal with the 0.0000000001 ms difference of seeing the person. If your really not good enough to use tactical smarts to see the guy first and actually aim to kill, then you really need to rethink your game choice.
Your lying and idiotic, bye -
saintNooby wrote: »Your lying and idiotic, bye
Not only are you some nameless kid, but your a nameless Euro ping baddie.
Your ignorant and terrible at this game. Stop playing ghost mode and learn to actually play First Person Shooter games.
This game is so messed up that there is hardly any difference in low pings to high pings. I've already posted a long ass reply with proof.
Sit down or get good.
Protip: You have to actually be good at something before calling someone else bad.
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