Article: Skill
Comments
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ok, i did not understand some of the things you said. but you said not many players here are intellectuals. so, as an advice, if you wana relate to as many players here about ur opinions for the betterment(skills) of the community. better make it short, concise and accurate. uhm! what else, uhm! i dont know what to say.
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PacQuiaoPHI wrote: »ok, i did not understand some of the things you said. but you said not many players here are intellectuals. so, as an advice, if you wana relate to as many players here about ur opinions for the betterment(skills) of the community. better make it short, concise and accurate. uhm! what else, uhm! i dont know what to say.
If people don't understand it, they're not smart enough to respond properly to it. Let alone play within the range of players I'm speaking of and to. -
This is a counter-productive article in my opinion Denxi but your effort is unquestionable, and pretty ballsy. The people that do have this 'sixth-sense' so to speak cannot describe it in words as transparent as you have, but ultimitely diluted.
Mostly because this 'skill' you speak, called gamesense is instinctual and comes with ample competative FPS experience. This is a free to play game so that doesn't aid in the fact that pubbing will seldom get you to the top so that is why I will throw out there only about 2-3% of the CF community can actually display this playing IQ consistently and effectively.
I somewhat disagree it's pure 'skill', because I go into Alpha 7 to pub all the time and see the chinease players there. They are sure skilled, they give me a good warm up. But at the end of the day they do not have the intuition or gamesense that the true players have. It's very apparent. Intuition and Wisdom cannot be taught.
Raw information like denxi's examples on players, their personal skill with their gun as opposed to your teammates etc. is just raw knowledge and only a small portion of skill.
Take Blackjack for example. If you understand basic strategy (dont get the wording Strategy confused with normal strategy in CF) and the raw chances and when to hit, stay, doubledown, split etc, or quickely assume the dealer has xx cards,, That only gives you a 2 percent advantage (max) and will SURELY not distinguish a blackjack player, let alone a CF player understanding their opponents.
You can call it luck based on my blackjack analogy, but there is luck with having wisdom and ample gamesense, i'm not gonna lie. There are times where I am in the right place at the perfect time, making a quick assumption and following through with it. But at the end of the day you cannot teach someone gamesense and with the wisdom that follows.
tl;dr good article denxi but it isn't your fault a big portion of gamesense was left out.. This article (essentially) should give lesser competative players an added edge with a rough estimated sucess rate of rounds won by 5-10% and it is the foundation of exponentially increasing that rate. -
This is a counter-productive article in my opinion Denxi but your effort is unquestionable, and pretty ballsy. The people that do have this 'sixth-sense' so to speak cannot describe it in words as transparent as you have, but ultimitely diluted.
Mostly because this 'skill' you speak, called gamesense is instinctual and comes with ample competative FPS experience. This is a free to play game so that doesn't aid in the fact that pubbing will seldom get you to the top so that is why I will throw out there only about 2-3% of the CF community can actually display this playing IQ consistently and effectively.
I somewhat disagree it's pure 'skill', because I go into Alpha 7 to pub all the time and see the chinease players there. They are sure skilled, they give me a good warm up. But at the end of the day they do not have the intuition or gamesense that the true players have. It's very apparent. Intuition and Wisdom cannot be taught.
Raw information like denxi's examples on players, their personal skill with their gun as opposed to your teammates etc. is just raw knowledge and only a small portion of skill.
Take Blackjack for example. If you understand basic strategy (dont get the wording Strategy confused with normal strategy in CF) and the raw chances and when to hit, stay, doubledown, split etc, or quickely assume the dealer has xx cards,, That only gives you a 2 percent advantage (max) and will SURELY not distinguish a blackjack player, let alone a CF player understanding their opponents.
You can call it luck based on my blackjack analogy, but there is luck with having wisdom and ample gamesense, i'm not gonna lie. There are times where I am in the right place at the perfect time, making a quick assumption and following through with it. But at the end of the day you cannot teach someone gamesense and with the wisdom that follows.
tl;dr good article denxi but it isn't your fault a big portion of gamesense was left out.. This article (essentially) should give lesser competative players an added edge with a rough estimated sucess rate of rounds won by 5-10% and it is the foundation of exponentially increasing that rate.
Cool story bro.
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This is a counter-productive article in my opinion Denxi but your effort is unquestionable, and pretty ballsy. The people that do have this 'sixth-sense' so to speak cannot describe it in words as transparent as you have, but ultimitely diluted.
Mostly because this 'skill' you speak, called gamesense is instinctual and comes with ample competative FPS experience. This is a free to play game so that doesn't aid in the fact that pubbing will seldom get you to the top so that is why I will throw out there only about 2-3% of the CF community can actually display this playing IQ consistently and effectively.
I somewhat disagree it's pure 'skill', because I go into Alpha 7 to pub all the time and see the chinease players there. They are sure skilled, they give me a good warm up. But at the end of the day they do not have the intuition or gamesense that the true players have. It's very apparent. Intuition and Wisdom cannot be taught.
Raw information like denxi's examples on players, their personal skill with their gun as opposed to your teammates etc. is just raw knowledge and only a small portion of skill.
Take Blackjack for example. If you understand basic strategy (dont get the wording Strategy confused with normal strategy in CF) and the raw chances and when to hit, stay, doubledown, split etc, or quickely assume the dealer has xx cards,, That only gives you a 2 percent advantage (max) and will SURELY not distinguish a blackjack player, let alone a CF player understanding their opponents.
You can call it luck based on my blackjack analogy, but there is luck with having wisdom and ample gamesense, i'm not gonna lie. There are times where I am in the right place at the perfect time, making a quick assumption and following through with it. But at the end of the day you cannot teach someone gamesense and with the wisdom that follows.
tl;dr good article denxi but it isn't your fault a big portion of gamesense was left out.. This article (essentially) should give lesser competative players an added edge with a rough estimated sucess rate of rounds won by 5-10% and it is the foundation of exponentially increasing that rate.
I'm pretty tired, so forgive me if I don't make sense or go off on a tangent. The following will be a random assortment of facts and statements that will hopefully make a readable post xD
The post wasn't meant to be a guide, it's more of an opinion statement. I do believe people can learn something, but I don't believe that the original post can teach them everything.
The main point of the post was to educate notsogood players about how a smart player's brain works.
The "sixth sense" is the ability to subconsciously take in and analyze data, and later on subconsciously make a descision based on all the data collected, that's what I was trying to get across.
I don't think you can teach yourself this. You are born with it at different levels, or you aren't. Most professional CS players, if tested on Logic/Analytical IQ would probably score 115+.
Luck is, as you said, incorperated into everything. You cannot be 100% sure about anything, however the logical thinking that good players have allows them to deduct which descision is more likely to be correct/successful.
You pointed out that some people playing pubs are skillful. I won't deny that. I just wasn't clear at all that I was only referring to analytical skill, not skill in general, in my OP.
However IMO analytical skill is the skill that matters the most. -
I'm pretty tired, so forgive me if I don't make sense or go off on a tangent. The following will be a random assortment of facts and statements that will hopefully make a readable post xD
The post wasn't meant to be a guide, it's more of an opinion statement. I do believe people can learn something, but I don't believe that the original post can teach them everything.
The main point of the post was to educate notsogood players about how a smart player's brain works.
The "sixth sense" is the ability to subconsciously take in and analyze data, and later on subconsciously make a descision based on all the data collected, that's what I was trying to get across.
I don't think you can teach yourself this. You are born with it at different levels, or you aren't. Most professional CS players, if tested on Logic/Analytical IQ would probably score 115+.
Luck is, as you said, incorperated into everything. You cannot be 100% sure about anything, however the logical thinking that good players have allows them to deduct which descision is more likely to be correct/successful.
You pointed out that some people playing pubs are skillful. I won't deny that. I just wasn't clear at all that I was only referring to analytical skill, not skill in general, in my OP.
However IMO analytical skill is the skill that matters the most.
Couldn't agree more. Just tried to get the point across better. Never said it was a guide by the way.. :P
I know that your article was meant to educate 'notsogood' players as stated in my last sentance.
I know what you were trying to get across
It's a proven fact leaders arent born leaders, and leaders make judgements of the present external and internal environments, so you are right, you cannot teach yourself this.. But you can grow and understand.. Teaching is different than Learning.. Learn from a teacher or play with a better player and learn off of them.. You're right, you can't teach yourself..
The only thing I disagree Denxi is that analytical skill is not the skill that matters the most, but it is NECESSARY as a foundation to be a top player. Anyone with eyes and half a brain can analyze players, thats one thing,, But to execute the proper formula for sucess consistently, divine. Thats the most important skill in my opinion: execution and consistency.
Denxi you are making your points like I am trying to counter your article, which I am not. I am saying the truth based on my point of view and I respect yours and vice-versa..
essential - analytical skill (matters the most if you want to be an above average player)
unique - intuition to execute consistently, that is what forms the top player. (matters the most if you want to be the BEST) -
Couldn't agree more. Just tried to get the point across better. Never said it was a guide by the way.. :P
I know that your article was meant to educate 'notsogood' players as stated in my last sentance.
I know you were trying to get across
It's a proven fact leaders arent born leaders, and leaders make judgements of the present external and internal environments, so you are right, you cannot teach yourself this.. But you can grow and understand.. Teaching is different than Learning.. Learn from a teacher or play with a better player and learn off of them.. You're right, you can't teach yourself..
The only thing I disagree Denxi is that analytical skill is not the skill that matters the most, but it is NECESSARY as a foundation to be a top player. Anyone with eyes and half a brain can analyze players, thats one thing,, But to execute the proper formula for sucess consistently, divine. Thats the most important skill in my opinion: execution and consistency.
Denxi you are making your points like I am trying to counter your article, which I am not. I am saying the truth based on my point of view and I respect yours and vice-versa..
essential - analytical skill (matters the most if you want to be an above average player)
unique - intuition to execute consistently, that is what forms the top player. (matters the most if you want to be the BEST)
"Denxi you are making your points like I am trying to counter your article, which I am not. I am saying the truth based on my point of view and I respect yours and vice-versa.."
I KNEW it would probs come across like that, ug.
And by analytical skill your def of consistancy and using said info is basically what i was referring to.
Oh, and I was stating that this wasn't a guide just because your phrasing in the first post near the end sound a little like you were taking that approach to reading it, sorry if I insulted your intelligence.. -
no no not at all,, i love exchanging knowledge with people I just wanted us to be on the same page.. That's the way mature people should talk on the internet
.. And plus, I have helped a lot of players already and I don't mind dropping a line or two once in a while -
Dear Malte,
Forgive me if I am wrong but I do believe that even if one played with perfect Black Jack strategy you would still be at a disadvantage to the house. Although, I do suppose if your counting away you would probably gain a rather considerable gain on the house... -
Dear my friend Cypher,
You are naturally at a disadvantage, even depending on the number of decks in the shoe.. It slightly lowers your favour. A single deck game already has a slight 0.2% advantage with 8 decks at a near 0.7%!
Splitting and hitting on aces will give a slight advantage to the player,, very small but probably less than 0.2%
The house advantage is roughly 5% or more over the player naturally.. But with card counting and true counting along with other added options for the players can turn the advantage to the player.. That's why casino's are scared and they will bar you if they catch you.. Yeah my dad forced me to read a blackjack beat the dealer book lol.. Perfect strategy IS card counting.. The professionals do it all the time in casinos but they are very smart about it (obviously).. -
Dear my friend Cypher,
You are naturally at a disadvantage, even depending on the number of decks in the shoe.. It slightly lowers your favour. A single deck game already has a slight 0.2% advantage with 8 decks at a near 0.7%!
Splitting and hitting on aces will give a slight advantage to the player,, very small but probably less than 0.2%
The house advantage is roughly 5% or more over the player naturally.. But with card counting and true counting along with other added options for the players can turn the advantage to the player.. That's why casino's are scared and they will bar you if they catch you.. Yeah my dad forced me to read a blackjack beat the dealer book lol.. Perfect strategy IS card counting.. The professionals do it all the time in casinos but they are very smart about it (obviously)..
there was a vid made about card counting and the makers won millions until they were caught 0.o. forgot the name of vid but i saw it last year in a.p. statistics
back to the topic... i personally feel that pubs are for people to try out new individual strats to see if they work. In an essence i am stating that a player should not be judged by how well he does in a pub. A few examples would be the elite CN clan... You see them in pubs and most of them are good shots well in scrims they turn out to have nearly 0 teamwork. Practicing in pubs also makes it easier in a clutch situation if the opposing team doesn't stack(only against decent clans though) pubs also sharpen your reflex/aiming. Sure scrims do that as well but the amount of time spent waiting for the latter clan to ready up is beat by just simply joining a pub.
any clan that tries out in purely pubs is not worth looking at -
there was a vid made about card counting and the makers won millions until they were caught 0.o. forgot the name of vid but i saw it last year in a.p. statistics
back to the topic... i personally feel that pubs are for people to try out new individual strats to see if they work. In an essence i am stating that a player should not be judged by how well he does in a pub. A few examples would be the elite CN clan... You see them in pubs and most of them are good shots well in scrims they turn out to have nearly 0 teamwork. Practicing in pubs also makes it easier in a clutch situation if the opposing team doesn't stack(only against decent clans though) pubs also sharpen your reflex/aiming. Sure scrims do that as well but the amount of time spent waiting for the latter clan to ready up is beat by just simply joining a pub.
any clan that tries out in purely pubs is not worth looking at
The movie is called "21" methinks. -
No cool story bros or tl:dr's for me denxi.
I agree with everything you said, and I strongly feel the ignorance and judgment of this community is nothing but a microcosm of the human race.
However, I will say that expecting better out of the vast group of people is a little bit naive of you, we are just humans after all. And If the entire human race can't stop from being so judgmental than how can you expect a community of FPS game players to behave any differently?
Albert Einstein Once Said: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
I agree,It's a sad fact but it is true.
I suck on every map except Downtown and Desert Storm where I own all.I'm just good on these maps.Doesn't stop people from calling me a hacker and kicking me..yet I'll go on GM or something else and get like 2/23 and now I'm a loser or the most overused word"noob"
Go figure.
Furhtermore,Who the heck cares if I'm a noob anyway?good for you then,I should be easier to kill.lol...sorry one of my pp's.:)
Good Post. -
ok i understand the last thing what u writed but can u do the short story i did lost in it :PI labeled this as an article because that's the only real classification I could think of.
Assumptions made will be based off the data collected, however please recognize that there is room for error, as I am not omnipotent.
Recently I began thinking about skill and the common opinions and misconceptions surround the subject.
The main thing I hate about judging people in this game, and most games for that mater, is it's done instantaneously. If the majority of people saw someone go 28 - 8 in an SnD pub, say on BW, they'd believe said person was a skilled crossfire player, that is if they weren't so closed minded to believe anyone who does better than them is a hacker.
They judge quickly and easily because they're stupid.
This annoys me because of many reasons, particularly because of the fact that you're judging the person over one situation.
When I was recruiting for Executable, when interviewing a candidate he asked how he'd be tried out. I responded with my usual, that he'd be tried out over something like a week's time, during which he could play in multiple scrims, with multiple people, while playing multiple positions. His response was disconcerting. He told me a previous clan he tried out for (No names, however they are considered a top clan) had tried him out in one scrim, thereafter deciding that he didn't make it.
Now, obviously I can't make too many accurate assumptions, I wasn't there, I don't know why they decided to reject him, maybe he swore way too much, I don't know. However the fact that a top clan would reject someone based off of data collected over 1 scrim is, well, kind of sad.
Another reason why it the judgment system is getting me worried is because of an inablity to distinguish a difference between skills in a public game and skills in a scrim.
For most people, pubs are worth something. Don't ask me why, maybe just because they're he most accessible thing to them, but to them, if you do well in a pub, you are a good player. I know that people will read this and think to themselves "I don't do that, only morons do." However, some, if not most of the people that need to reassure themselves that they don't judge off pubs, actually DO. (Some people, probably doop, will find the next section completely useless and insulting to their intelligence. Terribly sorry to you, but most people here aren't to smart.) I'll use myself as an example here, because, unlike most people, I don't have a "try-hard" switch that I can turn on and off on command.
When I play in a pub (SnD), I don't normally top. I may occasionally if I use an AWM/AK/M4, and I'm playing with *******s, but normally you'll find me sitting around the high - mid level on the scoreboard. This isn't because I'm not a good player. On the contrary, during scrims with good clans (and I mean good, not "oh em gee we think we're good cause we beat someone 12 - 6 in a 4v4," but a top-ish level clan) I will do a decent job. This is because, in this game, you don't need to be that good at using your gun. Sure, you need to know SOME things, like how to aim, how to control your recoil, hearing/reflex time, and so on and so forth. However, in my experience, the most important skills in competitive play are:
- Being able to logically deduct what will happen next from data collected in the past
- Knowing the maps and knowing the appropriate place to be to respond to a situation
- An ability to memorize, call up, and use all data gathered during the game, and possibly during past scrims.
-and-
- An ability to think of the team as a whole, the map as a grid, and being able to intelligently use that ability to gain the advantage.
The last skill is hard to explain, so I'll use an example. This is how my brain works during a situation.
It's a 5v5 vs. a good clan, on Factory. It's 3-1 for us. We need the round to continue the momentum, because if they get it to a 3-2 their spirits will rise. They're running an AWM, 2 M4s, an AK, and a Scar Lite. We're running 2 snipers, and 3 AKs. We pushed up B, and it's down to a 2v3 from the enemies picks. Most of the kills were in middle. Me, an AK, and another AK are still alive. This is how I choose what to do.
Remember, this is sub-consciously, within half a second.
- I know that they still have an AK, M4, and Scar Lite left.
- I know that they play a slow, cautious rotate-trap on defense when they have the advantage. I know this because on round one we played defensively on B long and it took them until 1:07 to get a guy actually push from the back for a flank kill.
- I know that the enemy with the AK isn't very good at using it.
- I know that my teams AK is better at long range and precision shooting than close range firefight.
- I know the M4 has a silencer. I also know he knows how to use it properly.
- I know that I've killed the Scar Light guy twice at close range.
- I know the Scar Light guy normally is B sites defense, and like to play slightly aggressive.
- I know that we've won 2 out of the 3 rounds at B site.
- I know a whole ****load more. However, I root out the above details, and devise this plan.
Friendly AK will peek B courtyard's window to try to get a skill on the SL guy, if the SL has pushed up. If the SL guy hasn't pushed up, or if we kill him, then we will both push into courtyard, and peek B hallway.
Once in B hallway, assuming the SL guy is dead (I can safely assume he was supposed to hold the hallway from the previous rounds) then we'll begin our assault onto B site.
If the M4 guy was smart, he'd make use of his silencer. I can assume then that he'd either flank (which we'd obviously be aware of the possibility and watching for it) or take a hiddy-hole near B site where he can get the surprise on us and kill use without revealing his position. Because it's only a 3v2, and because the SL guys has been owned before, it's more likely that the smart M4 player would take the later alternative, rather than thin the defense for a risky flank.
When we pushed in, I would then focus of more of my attention on finding and killing the M4. The logic behind this is as follows.
The opponents AK isn't too good of a gun. Because of this, he'll most likely get some sort of cover to help compensate. I know that Friendly AK is a good longshot. I also know that if the M4 will camp close to the entrances for a "ninja," and I can safely conclude that the AK will be farther away because of this. Therefore I can assume, and confirm over Ventrilo, that friendly AK will prefer going after the farther away guy. I would prefer that as well, as I know that I prefer close range combat than long range.
Within half a second (Yeah, it really is only half a second.) I've made a plan that has a decent chance of succeeding, based on data from the previous rounds.
In my opinion, this is the main reason why pub skill and scrim skill are so different. You don't need most, if not all of the logically thinking and smart playing in a pub, but you do in a scrim, because you aren't working as one unit, you're working by yourself.
There's a different skill set for clutch playing as well.
People need to realize that there is a huge difference between pub and scrim skill. Most people don't know how big it really is, and people need to start realizing/worrying about scrim skill, or else the competitive community in this game won't go anywhere.
And to trollers, no, I didn't get mad because someone said I sucked in a pub, I am actually concerned about the total community ignorance when it comes to this area.
you man (: ![[MOD]Zzxq](https://z8games.akamaized.net/cfna/forum/customavatars/20/navatar_5345120.gif){kind=avatar}
And yes, I did judge you on your skill from that one game. And a lot of the time, I judge people from pubs, but it's pretty hard not to if they do a 0.5 KDR or below.
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