Article: Skill
I labeled this as an article because that's the only real classification I could think of.
Assumptions made will be based off the data collected, however please recognize that there is room for error, as I am not omnipotent.
Recently I began thinking about skill and the common opinions and misconceptions surround the subject.
The main thing I hate about judging people in this game, and most games for that mater, is it's done instantaneously. If the majority of people saw someone go 28 - 8 in an SnD pub, say on BW, they'd believe said person was a skilled crossfire player, that is if they weren't so closed minded to believe anyone who does better than them is a hacker.
They judge quickly and easily because they're stupid.
This annoys me because of many reasons, particularly because of the fact that you're judging the person over one situation.
When I was recruiting for Executable, when interviewing a candidate he asked how he'd be tried out. I responded with my usual, that he'd be tried out over something like a week's time, during which he could play in multiple scrims, with multiple people, while playing multiple positions. His response was disconcerting. He told me a previous clan he tried out for (No names, however they are considered a top clan) had tried him out in one scrim, thereafter deciding that he didn't make it.
Now, obviously I can't make too many accurate assumptions, I wasn't there, I don't know why they decided to reject him, maybe he swore way too much, I don't know. However the fact that a top clan would reject someone based off of data collected over 1 scrim is, well, kind of sad.
Another reason why it the judgment system is getting me worried is because of an inablity to distinguish a difference between skills in a public game and skills in a scrim.
For most people, pubs are worth something. Don't ask me why, maybe just because they're he most accessible thing to them, but to them, if you do well in a pub, you are a good player. I know that people will read this and think to themselves "I don't do that, only morons do." However, some, if not most of the people that need to reassure themselves that they don't judge off pubs, actually DO. (Some people, probably doop, will find the next section completely useless and insulting to their intelligence. Terribly sorry to you, but most people here aren't to smart.) I'll use myself as an example here, because, unlike most people, I don't have a "try-hard" switch that I can turn on and off on command.
When I play in a pub (SnD), I don't normally top. I may occasionally if I use an AWM/AK/M4, and I'm playing with *******s, but normally you'll find me sitting around the high - mid level on the scoreboard. This isn't because I'm not a good player. On the contrary, during scrims with good clans (and I mean good, not "oh em gee we think we're good cause we beat someone 12 - 6 in a 4v4," but a top-ish level clan) I will do a decent job. This is because, in this game, you don't need to be that good at using your gun. Sure, you need to know SOME things, like how to aim, how to control your recoil, hearing/reflex time, and so on and so forth. However, in my experience, the most important skills in competitive play are:
- Being able to logically deduct what will happen next from data collected in the past
- Knowing the maps and knowing the appropriate place to be to respond to a situation
- An ability to memorize, call up, and use all data gathered during the game, and possibly during past scrims.
-and-
- An ability to think of the team as a whole, the map as a grid, and being able to intelligently use that ability to gain the advantage.
The last skill is hard to explain, so I'll use an example. This is how my brain works during a situation.
It's a 5v5 vs. a good clan, on Factory. It's 3-1 for us. We need the round to continue the momentum, because if they get it to a 3-2 their spirits will rise. They're running an AWM, 2 M4s, an AK, and a Scar Lite. We're running 2 snipers, and 3 AKs. We pushed up B, and it's down to a 2v3 from the enemies picks. Most of the kills were in middle. Me, an AK, and another AK are still alive. This is how I choose what to do.
Remember, this is sub-consciously, within half a second.
- I know that they still have an AK, M4, and Scar Lite left.
- I know that they play a slow, cautious rotate-trap on defense when they have the advantage. I know this because on round one we played defensively on B long and it took them until 1:07 to get a guy actually push from the back for a flank kill.
- I know that the enemy with the AK isn't very good at using it.
- I know that my teams AK is better at long range and precision shooting than close range firefight.
- I know the M4 has a silencer. I also know he knows how to use it properly.
- I know that I've killed the Scar Light guy twice at close range.
- I know the Scar Light guy normally is B sites defense, and like to play slightly aggressive.
- I know that we've won 2 out of the 3 rounds at B site.
- I know a whole ****load more. However, I root out the above details, and devise this plan.
Friendly AK will peek B courtyard's window to try to get a skill on the SL guy, if the SL has pushed up. If the SL guy hasn't pushed up, or if we kill him, then we will both push into courtyard, and peek B hallway.
Once in B hallway, assuming the SL guy is dead (I can safely assume he was supposed to hold the hallway from the previous rounds) then we'll begin our assault onto B site.
If the M4 guy was smart, he'd make use of his silencer. I can assume then that he'd either flank (which we'd obviously be aware of the possibility and watching for it) or take a hiddy-hole near B site where he can get the surprise on us and kill use without revealing his position. Because it's only a 3v2, and because the SL guys has been owned before, it's more likely that the smart M4 player would take the later alternative, rather than thin the defense for a risky flank.
When we pushed in, I would then focus of more of my attention on finding and killing the M4. The logic behind this is as follows.
The opponents AK isn't too good of a gun. Because of this, he'll most likely get some sort of cover to help compensate. I know that Friendly AK is a good longshot. I also know that if the M4 will camp close to the entrances for a "ninja," and I can safely conclude that the AK will be farther away because of this. Therefore I can assume, and confirm over Ventrilo, that friendly AK will prefer going after the farther away guy. I would prefer that as well, as I know that I prefer close range combat than long range.
Within half a second (Yeah, it really is only half a second.) I've made a plan that has a decent chance of succeeding, based on data from the previous rounds.
In my opinion, this is the main reason why pub skill and scrim skill are so different. You don't need most, if not all of the logically thinking and smart playing in a pub, but you do in a scrim, because you aren't working as one unit, you're working by yourself.
There's a different skill set for clutch playing as well.
People need to realize that there is a huge difference between pub and scrim skill. Most people don't know how big it really is, and people need to start realizing/worrying about scrim skill, or else the competitive community in this game won't go anywhere.
And to trollers, no, I didn't get mad because someone said I sucked in a pub, I am actually concerned about the total community ignorance when it comes to this area.
Assumptions made will be based off the data collected, however please recognize that there is room for error, as I am not omnipotent.
Recently I began thinking about skill and the common opinions and misconceptions surround the subject.
The main thing I hate about judging people in this game, and most games for that mater, is it's done instantaneously. If the majority of people saw someone go 28 - 8 in an SnD pub, say on BW, they'd believe said person was a skilled crossfire player, that is if they weren't so closed minded to believe anyone who does better than them is a hacker.
They judge quickly and easily because they're stupid.
This annoys me because of many reasons, particularly because of the fact that you're judging the person over one situation.
When I was recruiting for Executable, when interviewing a candidate he asked how he'd be tried out. I responded with my usual, that he'd be tried out over something like a week's time, during which he could play in multiple scrims, with multiple people, while playing multiple positions. His response was disconcerting. He told me a previous clan he tried out for (No names, however they are considered a top clan) had tried him out in one scrim, thereafter deciding that he didn't make it.
Now, obviously I can't make too many accurate assumptions, I wasn't there, I don't know why they decided to reject him, maybe he swore way too much, I don't know. However the fact that a top clan would reject someone based off of data collected over 1 scrim is, well, kind of sad.
Another reason why it the judgment system is getting me worried is because of an inablity to distinguish a difference between skills in a public game and skills in a scrim.
For most people, pubs are worth something. Don't ask me why, maybe just because they're he most accessible thing to them, but to them, if you do well in a pub, you are a good player. I know that people will read this and think to themselves "I don't do that, only morons do." However, some, if not most of the people that need to reassure themselves that they don't judge off pubs, actually DO. (Some people, probably doop, will find the next section completely useless and insulting to their intelligence. Terribly sorry to you, but most people here aren't to smart.) I'll use myself as an example here, because, unlike most people, I don't have a "try-hard" switch that I can turn on and off on command.
When I play in a pub (SnD), I don't normally top. I may occasionally if I use an AWM/AK/M4, and I'm playing with *******s, but normally you'll find me sitting around the high - mid level on the scoreboard. This isn't because I'm not a good player. On the contrary, during scrims with good clans (and I mean good, not "oh em gee we think we're good cause we beat someone 12 - 6 in a 4v4," but a top-ish level clan) I will do a decent job. This is because, in this game, you don't need to be that good at using your gun. Sure, you need to know SOME things, like how to aim, how to control your recoil, hearing/reflex time, and so on and so forth. However, in my experience, the most important skills in competitive play are:
- Being able to logically deduct what will happen next from data collected in the past
- Knowing the maps and knowing the appropriate place to be to respond to a situation
- An ability to memorize, call up, and use all data gathered during the game, and possibly during past scrims.
-and-
- An ability to think of the team as a whole, the map as a grid, and being able to intelligently use that ability to gain the advantage.
The last skill is hard to explain, so I'll use an example. This is how my brain works during a situation.
It's a 5v5 vs. a good clan, on Factory. It's 3-1 for us. We need the round to continue the momentum, because if they get it to a 3-2 their spirits will rise. They're running an AWM, 2 M4s, an AK, and a Scar Lite. We're running 2 snipers, and 3 AKs. We pushed up B, and it's down to a 2v3 from the enemies picks. Most of the kills were in middle. Me, an AK, and another AK are still alive. This is how I choose what to do.
Remember, this is sub-consciously, within half a second.
- I know that they still have an AK, M4, and Scar Lite left.
- I know that they play a slow, cautious rotate-trap on defense when they have the advantage. I know this because on round one we played defensively on B long and it took them until 1:07 to get a guy actually push from the back for a flank kill.
- I know that the enemy with the AK isn't very good at using it.
- I know that my teams AK is better at long range and precision shooting than close range firefight.
- I know the M4 has a silencer. I also know he knows how to use it properly.
- I know that I've killed the Scar Light guy twice at close range.
- I know the Scar Light guy normally is B sites defense, and like to play slightly aggressive.
- I know that we've won 2 out of the 3 rounds at B site.
- I know a whole ****load more. However, I root out the above details, and devise this plan.
Friendly AK will peek B courtyard's window to try to get a skill on the SL guy, if the SL has pushed up. If the SL guy hasn't pushed up, or if we kill him, then we will both push into courtyard, and peek B hallway.
Once in B hallway, assuming the SL guy is dead (I can safely assume he was supposed to hold the hallway from the previous rounds) then we'll begin our assault onto B site.
If the M4 guy was smart, he'd make use of his silencer. I can assume then that he'd either flank (which we'd obviously be aware of the possibility and watching for it) or take a hiddy-hole near B site where he can get the surprise on us and kill use without revealing his position. Because it's only a 3v2, and because the SL guys has been owned before, it's more likely that the smart M4 player would take the later alternative, rather than thin the defense for a risky flank.
When we pushed in, I would then focus of more of my attention on finding and killing the M4. The logic behind this is as follows.
The opponents AK isn't too good of a gun. Because of this, he'll most likely get some sort of cover to help compensate. I know that Friendly AK is a good longshot. I also know that if the M4 will camp close to the entrances for a "ninja," and I can safely conclude that the AK will be farther away because of this. Therefore I can assume, and confirm over Ventrilo, that friendly AK will prefer going after the farther away guy. I would prefer that as well, as I know that I prefer close range combat than long range.
Within half a second (Yeah, it really is only half a second.) I've made a plan that has a decent chance of succeeding, based on data from the previous rounds.
In my opinion, this is the main reason why pub skill and scrim skill are so different. You don't need most, if not all of the logically thinking and smart playing in a pub, but you do in a scrim, because you aren't working as one unit, you're working by yourself.
There's a different skill set for clutch playing as well.
People need to realize that there is a huge difference between pub and scrim skill. Most people don't know how big it really is, and people need to start realizing/worrying about scrim skill, or else the competitive community in this game won't go anywhere.
And to trollers, no, I didn't get mad because someone said I sucked in a pub, I am actually concerned about the total community ignorance when it comes to this area.
Comments
-
He told me a previous clan he tried out for (No names, however they are considered a top clan) had tried him out in one scrim, thereafter deciding that he didn't make it.
I know you said no names but I want to guess anyways:
paradox- ?
Lemme know if I got it
We run our tryouts like this:
step 1 - add me on xfire
step 2 - annoy me constantly while im at school or on my laptop and don't have a mouse
step 3 - finally set up a time we are both free
step 4 - ship 1v1 (I just like to play 1v1's, doesn't really matter unless I like 40-10 you or something)
step 5 - play a scrim with us
step 6A - get kicked
step 6B - get accepted
step 7 - bother me on xfire about why you were kicked, even though I never kick people, only accept them
For real, if someone can't listen / callout / mesh with our team, we usually don't give them more than 2 games.
Nice post btw, too bad the community won't appreciate it. -
No cool story bros or tl:dr's for me denxi.
I agree with everything you said, and I strongly feel the ignorance and judgment of this community is nothing but a microcosm of the human race.
However, I will say that expecting better out of the vast group of people is a little bit naive of you, we are just humans after all. And If the entire human race can't stop from being so judgmental than how can you expect a community of FPS game players to behave any differently?
Albert Einstein Once Said: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" -
(Some people, probably doop, will find the next section completely useless and insulting to their intelligence. Terribly sorry to you, but most people here aren't to smart.)
blah blah blah
the reason people in crossfire aren't smart is because they don't constantly reanalyze the situation in game. Situational awareness is the one thing that very few players have in this community, instead they try to rely on pure aim/gun skill to win rounds. It's a shame that the game engine promotes poor/stupid play. -
the reason people in crossfire aren't smart is because they don't constantly reanalyze the situation in game. Situational awareness is the one thing that very few players have in this community, instead they try to rely on pure aim/gun skill to win rounds. It's a shame that the game engine promotes poor/stupid play.
Agreed ive witnesed this when doops was in my clan, no matter how skilled the other team was, in the end doops and game sense would give us the win. -
No cool story bros or tl:dr's for me denxi.
I agree with everything you said, and I strongly feel the ignorance and judgment of this community is nothing but a microcosm of the human race.
However, I will say that expecting better out of the vast group of people is a little bit naive of you, we are just humans after all. And If the entire human race can't stop from being so judgmental than how can you expect a community of FPS game players to behave any differently?
Albert Einstein Once Said: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
I had my hopes brought up.
I played another game before I came back to this. The player size was about the same, if not more than this game, and I can easily say that most of the people I encountered while playing that game had a decent level of logical thinking.LawnyouSure wrote: »I know you said no names but I want to guess anyways:
paradox- ?
Lemme know if I got it
We run our tryouts like this:
step 1 - add me on xfire
step 2 - annoy me constantly while im at school or on my laptop and don't have a mouse
step 3 - finally set up a time we are both free
step 4 - ship 1v1 (I just like to play 1v1's, doesn't really matter unless I like 40-10 you or something)
step 5 - play a scrim with us
step 6A - get kicked
step 6B - get accepted
step 7 - bother me on xfire about why you were kicked, even though I never kick people, only accept them
For real, if someone can't listen / callout / mesh with our team, we usually don't give them more than 2 games.
Nice post btw, too bad the community won't appreciate it.
No, it wasn't Paradox.
Allow thanks for the post, it further prove my point
-
i think people would have to play a longgg time to analyze the situation like that. Crossfire has been out for like a year? i don't know. but i'm willing to bet for a lot of people, this is their first FPS game. this is my first fps game, and i found it on a 3rd party program advertisement for runescape. i'm saying the community may not be experienced enough to play this smart. Which leads to 'hackusations' and other stuff.
perhaps over time things will change and people will understand and acknowledge skill.
as my proof of needing to play for a long time before becoming so aware of the situation, i played GM and TDM for 8 months and i can think deep while keeping focused during gameplay, resulting in a great a win/loss ratio. i played SnD for like 1 week. and i get rolled over easily lol. and i know the problem is i don't know the maps or what people tend to do. -My lack of Experience. -
LawnyouSure wrote: »I know you said no names but I want to guess anyways:
paradox- ?
Lemme know if I got it
We run our tryouts like this:
step 1 - add me on xfire
step 2 - annoy me constantly while im at school or on my laptop and don't have a mouse
step 3 - finally set up a time we are both free
step 4 - ship 1v1 (I just like to play 1v1's, doesn't really matter unless I like 40-10 you or something)
step 5 - play a scrim with us
step 6A - get kicked
step 6B - get accepted
step 7 - bother me on xfire about why you were kicked, even though I never kick people, only accept them
For real, if someone can't listen / callout / mesh with our team, we usually don't give them more than 2 games.
Nice post btw, too bad the community won't appreciate it.
he said TOP CLAN remember? -
I understand what he means about the quick-decision-making thing, but I'm not so sure if I agree with the pub is team/scrim is solo thing. I mean, I pub 90% of the time I'm playing (or more), and I play a lot of S&D. I know that when ur scimming u basically have to do ur best to watch ur area (ESPECIALLY when it's low players liek 3v3, of course), even if it's 5v5, but still, some clans have vent, which when used in FPS is for cooperation through quick communication, not to mention that it's likely that since ur in a clan together, ur prolly close to the same skill level and if u've cw'd a lot together, u'll know which spots ur team will likely pick. ALSO - u all start at the same time (unless one person gets dc'd or has a slow comp.), so it's fresh for everyone, and no chance of getting familiar with tactics/style/weaponry of the enemy is known (unless u've played them before and they don't change up).
In a pub, A LOT of the time you cannot rely on all of ur teammates, which is [logically] why when I join S&D's, the scores aren't always close (ex: 9-0). I know that when u have at least one or 2 other good guys on ur team, sometimes u can basically hit tab and predict the most likely outcome, but low hp, ping difference, and the element of surprise can change things in a split second. Despite that, sometimes new low rank players may not have many kills because they don't know the map, but sum have had enough previous FPS experience that they can handle their gun+reflexes quite well, so face to face, they may do better against sum1 who knows the map but sux at aiming.
Anyways, I play GR most of the time I play S&D in pub. For anyone who's played a lot of S&D, they'd prolly say GR/CT/Bravo (w/e u wanna call the defending side) is easier, since waiting for a target takes less reflexes then rushing/sneaking to one. BUT, it doesn't mean it makes all pub GR easy. I CAMP. I CAMP A LOT. U COULD CALL ME AN OUTDOORSMAN WITH HOW MUCH I CAMP. NOT JUST IN ONE SPOT. I CAMP SPOT TO SPOT [especially cuz ur not always certain how well ur teammates have ur back]. but when u have one of those GR teams in pub that liek to rush BL even though the 0-6 score doesn't tell them IT'S NOT WORKING, GR difficulty suddenly increases, more or less depending on whether ur opponents are all noobs or not, and whether ur surrounded/isolated when ur the last one left, whether most of the BL are together or if they're in branches of 2's, and 3's, AND of course whether the bomb has/hasn't been planted. Even if u have a few GR who are good, u can't just tell ur pub guy who might not even speak ur language, even less - KNOW the map he's playing, or have common sense, which sites to cover. Another thing that shows why GR pub can be EXCRUTIATINGLY FRUSTRATING several times - sumtimes they do have the sensibility to realize that since u have no bomb, U MUST DEFEND THE BASES, STILL, sumtimes the entire team will all go to ONE SITE. YES, ONE SITE. as if the other one doesn't exist anymore because it got nuked 2 rounds ago, so there's NO POSSIBLE WAY IN HELL that they will plant at another site cuz they planted at this one for the last 2 or 3 times....and wudda ya know, ur left to take on 8 rushing BL's set on planting where ur at or flanking ur entire team.
well, that was good ventilation. -
Oh pick me! Let me guess was this one of the many riflers we picked up and kicked within the matter of less then a day in most cases?
Quality post if more players thought like this it would be far more interesting. I believe EU teams are more prone to following this line of thought. I still believe the majority of US teams simply focus on out gunning the other team.
Though as Doops already mentioned its more or less encouraged, however a smart player will always have an edge. I am a terrible shot compared to most other individuals out there, however I am able to rack up kills simply because I think and "learn" the maps.
- Cypher -
You can play this game two ways, outsmarting or outshooting... or both... but basically, if you plan to play it to either style the majority of the time then you should have the mindset from each.
^ im tired, stfu.
So, if you plan to use less ninja and more bubble gum then you need to make sure you put yourself into a spot where its going to be shooting instead of sneaking.
Obviously vise-versa if you are indeed one with the ninja.
bubble gum (see: dukenukem)
I don't even remember what this thread was about exactly. CROSSFIRE'S SEXIEST PLAYER OUT... TO BED. -
It is a good post. Well done denxi.
Might I add another thing? There are spams or prefires that is perfectly legit. If some idiot rushed A long 20 times you know he's going there, in pubs one would just prefire the open area. A lot of times will end up in some rediculous cham looking shot. The thing is pre fire isn't always an indication of chamming. Give it 3 times to judge, if you judge too quick you just might end up embarrasing yourself. -
I wish I could give this thread 5-stars but apparently the forum doesn't have that rating feature :<
People really do need to learn gamesense. It's amazing how many times I can get accused of hacking in pubs just because I'm able to spot patterns. There's some people who always think that going the same route will work every time, even when you've killed them in the same spot the past 5 rounds. I've seen whole teams in S&D Pubs fall into a pattern, where you know the bomb is always going tunnel, you know their sniper is going storefront and back of the B path, and their best players are going to cut through mid to A. Patterns.
Also, It's 3v1, you're off near A when you see 2 teammates drop at mid. Guess where that enemy is going to be. MID! Some people don't pay attention to their radar/map when it's oh so helpful at finding enemies.
People need to stop focusing on themselves and only themselves. Your gun and your aim won't carry you through a match alone. Always know where your teammates are, know where they die (ENEMIES ARE THERE!), figure out who's using what and a general idea of their gunskill and their gamesense. Aim alone won't get you anywhere if the enemy is behind you and you didn't notice the 3 X's behind you on your radar.
) 
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