Is the competitive scene still strong for Crossfire?
Comments
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They do mix quite well. In a slow and circular fashion.
Now all the points you mentioned are rather idiotic and irrelevant to prove your point right so I didn't bother to quote them.
TF2 was P2P at first, it was a major factor why the community was so much better than ours, I'd have to agree. But there are still 2 games left. It does NOT matter if those 2 games were based off P2P games at all. You said ALL F2P games.
All means all, you're still ignorant.
(oh and I am trash)
Spastic and ignorant do not go together. I believe you were trying to search your limited vocabulary and knowledge for a sentence more like this:
"Your sentence lacks comprehension and belies your ignorance."
Of course, you throw in a random word and add ignorant to end of it; like i'm some kind of child to be intimidated by your incoherent sentence.
To further my point, nothing is ever black and white. To be exact, not every single free game has a terrible community. That point should have been so entirely obvious that to even type it out and hit the reply button makes me question your intelligence.
If you want to dig deeper, I can list games like Hostile Intent, Vampire Slayer, Natural Selection or Shattered Galaxy that have/had good communities and were free.
Once again, let me just remind you that you are trash and have a very limited grasp on the the English language, its grammar and the underlying subtleties of the language.
In summary, you're bad and should feel bad. -
i give this game a year or so, if nothing significant changes then it's over from there.
People were saying, a year ago, that CF would die within a year. As long as any FPS game is slightly popular there will always be some form of a competitive side to it. -
teamwork is overrated and generally takes years to make anyway. so when 5 good players make a "team" they're automatically one of the best in this game. the problem is that most good players already have teams when leagues come around; therefore, the only people making teams are sh1tty players. 5 sh1tty players on one team is what you call the majority of "teams" in this game. They only win scrims if they have cheaters or if it is against another team of their quality. When they get wiped out by a couple of good teams the individually bad players feel like they lost because of their teammates and their teammates alone. And so they go look for a better team but they never find one so they end up with the same sh1tty players. it's like elo hell for CF but in this case elo hell makes up 95% of the teams
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throneofGod wrote: »teamwork is overrated and generally takes years to make anyway. so when 5 good players make a "team" they're automatically one of the best in this game. the problem is that most good players already have teams when leagues come around; therefore, the only people making teams are sh1tty players. 5 sh1tty players on one team is what you call the majority of "teams" in this game. They only win scrims if they have cheaters or if it is against another team of their quality. When they get wiped out by a couple of good teams the individually bad players feel like they lost because of their teammates and their teammates alone. And so they go look for a better team but they never find one so they end up with the same sh1tty players. it's like elo hell for CF but in this case elo hell makes up 95% of the teams
Agreed. Seen this happen a million times over. First off, people need to pick other players that they really like to play with. Next, they need to stop disbanding when they lose a few scrims or a match. Just stick with each other, because, after a week or two of disbanding, you're going to end up back together again anyways. -
From a professional standpoint, sitting back and WATCHING the figures in the competitive crowd from now until back when we first launched in Cross Fire [as that's as far back as I can go being as I was an admin] I'll give my HONEST opinion;
Point #1
Competitive Cross Fire is NOWHERE near the number it once was. There's roughly 35 Teams at this time. Safe to say? At one point I had 86 Teams under my watchful eye while with WOGL. 86 is an exact number; 35 is an approximate figure. That's a significant drop in numbers. I want people to argue that... It's definitely died off. The competitive community is shattered because there's no value.
Point #2
In order for this community to NOW grow all parties must work outside of this community. This community has been milked dry. We had a good number of new teams from other games come in when I [in company with Kayne] was marketing WOGL Season 1 in other communities; With plugs and segments on various podcasts including DJ WHEATS, gotFrag and more. All parties involved in the competitive community need to start working together, tackling angles outside of this pub based community. If Frank & G4Box [excluding Christian, because he's got the idea something MAJOR needs to be done] don't get their heads out of their a%%es and start investing in PROPER marketing techniques for this SPECIFIC aspect of their community it will remain stagnant; It's not dead at the moment, but it's motionless. Up to this point, that whole office has approached this avenue of their game with such buffoonery. The competitive side isn't hugely lucrative in today's market, but it's a selling point on expanding the brand and possibly holding the community longer. People WILL NOT stick around a F2P of this caliber forever. There's no benefit and the F2P games now are stepping up and building models to mimic top selling paid games. Only time will tell HOW SERIOUS that office [G4Box Inc.] is when it comes to competitive gaming. And if they don't comply, NeoWiz and SmileGate have some GREAT people that are always willing to listen how they can help in benefiting their game; Especially in markets outside of Asia. Sometimes you have to step over people in life to get somewhere...
I've been speaking with Kris, aiding in ideas how he and the ESG team can better go about the marketing side of this upcoming league. And they've got a good grasp on all sides. They've got GREAT tools and even better resources. Now it's about putting them all together for the sake of Cross Fire NA. It's not implausible to see Cross Fire at a much higher level. It just needs the qualified hands and constructive minds to lead it there. There's already an established crowd. It's now up to G4Box Inc. & ESG to see where THEY take it. Do they leave it to grow internally? Or do they hit the wave of eSport communities and bringing in further talent and teams? I guess that's on them and we'll all just see.
While some of my focus has not left me the time to scour the Competitive Forum as much as I used to I feel the need to put some points in here.
In fact my whole purpose for coming here would be to ask, to who are you comparing us to to get such opinions? (though this tends to start rambling a bit towards the end)
Secondly, while you may be able to speak to someone at Smilegate or Neowiz about something like this, I can assure you that it was not as close as I was when I was having lunch with them in Busan Korea discussing the game, direction and competitive community. Yes they are very interested in the development of the game. [read: growth, read: profit] There are plenty of issues that need/are being addressed within the game. Are we going to get some sort of a Competitive client for CF? Likely not.
I'm not quite ready to put the gavel on the competitive scene here, thankfully we have some light at the end of a dark tunnel with the ESG.
But I get the feeling that you are trying to compare us to someone like Riot, who has millions of players, millions of dollars and a team that would rival any AAA development studio. Imagine having an entire department for customer support, an entire department for marketing, an entire department of CM's, an entire department dedicated to the competitive growth of the game. Then compare that to a company like ours where we have a lot of people here who fill a lot of rolls because we simply aren't that big.
Additionally, I would ask what you mean (ie be more specific) in terms of marketing. There would be, for example, no way we could run a google ad campaign that would advertise a specific tournament, or competitive-specific feature of Cross Fire. Google ads are too expensive and the campaign would be way too niche for it to be worth spending the money on. (you would be surprised how much it costs to put an ad on a page like say.. xfire)
When you think about that, then it becomes more apparent how much we've managed to achieve with what resources we have.
We cannot code anything involving the game. And while yes, changes to the game which may benefit the competitive community (as small as it is) may happen. But they would also have to happen on a Global Scale for the game.
At a fundamental level the game exists in a state right now (random crash problems or 24_3 errors aside) in a state where there is all the tools necessary to play the game in a competitive environment.
With the nature of the community of these kinds of things, an anti cheat and a way to match one group of players versus another group of players is about the only thing anyone else needs to make it work.
The difference between CF and say, counterstrike is that Counterstrike is not tied to a central server. This gives full control to the server owner for how they want to set up the rules.
And arguably it seems that this is where the crux of all the problems is. Because the competitive community wants a way to set up a public tournament, (ie anyone can join) but have a specific set of rules so that players can only use X item on X map etc.
This is actually IN the game already, you just have to keep track of it manually. There's no way to automatically do this. In addition this gives zero benefit for the company. I'll bring up riot here in saying that they do not unlock accounts (give all champions) to people competing in these events.
Lastly, I'll speak about riot again and try to hammer home a point I'll quote from you here.
Riot provides a competitive page, and so do we, admittedly our page is much more difficult to update because it seems that our community (besides rant threads on the forums) is a lot less visible and a lot smaller. The tournament/competitive page was supposed to be a supplemental section of the community. Another homepage dedicated to the competitive people, but all we ever received from them was complaints. However it was updated at times for major tournaments and happenings. It's not perfect but some groundwork is there.All parties involved in the competitive community need to start working together, tackling angles outside of this pub based community.
Riot also provides some way to track teams based on their results. This is also a product of their larger departments, more money etc etc. But those results are taken purely from outside sources. Those leagues and ladders and tournaments and lans are set up completely independant of Riot Games. And often times they don't even have to sponsor.
So once again, because I've said this before, I don't want to sit here and put the onus on the players, but if you want a competitive league go run one yourself.
The ESG sees the potential and is working towards that goal. We can encourage it or discourage it. But ultimately the ESG works independently of us. It's still up to the players to decide whether or not to make it successful.
So I hope this isn't too negative because I respect the comments. We have to continue to do whats best for the game on all fronts. And while a competitive client that has everything (or certain things) unlocked is not likely to happen, we can still continue to encourage things when we see them and provide whatever support we can for that part of the community. -
I truly apologize for my poor english and simply a different way of expressing my own opinion. The reason behind it is the fact english isn't my native language. So there, again. I apologize!bunch of nonsense
"random word".... love it. I also love the line in which you question my intelligence and straight out insult me. I would never expect a great person like yourself to jump into insults simply because I proved you wrong. That is a surprise!
I understand you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I expect you to know the meaning of basic english vocabulary, and so do your teachers I'm sure.
all (ôl)
adj.
1. Being or representing the entire or total number, amount, or quantity: All the windows are open. Deal all the cards. See Synonyms at whole.
2. Constituting, being, or representing the total extent or the whole: all Christendom.
3. Being the utmost possible of: argued the case in all seriousness.
4. Every: got into all manner of trouble.
5. Any whatsoever: beyond all doubt. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »At a fundamental level the game exists in a state right now (random crash problems or 24_3 errors aside) in a state where there is all the tools necessary to play the game in a competitive environment.
Any news on the widescreen scope field of vision bug? I have a difficulty getting friends from other games to play when the only properly functional resolution choices are 1024x768 and 800x600. I realize the other resolutions do work, but the zoom glitch is just too much for most people to deal with. -
Regarding a CF competitive client:
From what I understand, this is what you'd need to do it.
- Rights to host CF in NA. Obviously this may change depending on the terms of the agreement, but I'd assume that as long as you were paying Neowiz to host the game, they wouldn't care if you were making money off the extra server to host it on.
- Weapon limitations. Already proven to have that at a basic level (limiting specific types of nades) So I'd assume that G4 can do this with specific guns.
Just via that you can put up another SERVER that is limited to specific weapons that conform with the current standard. But even better is still possible.
- Unlocking weapons for accounts. Easy.
- New master server. I'm assuming that you'd need this to store account specifically for the competitive servers, but I could be wrong.
If I'm wrong on any of the requirements, PLEASE CORRECT ME.
In your post Saidin, I don't see any actual argument AGAINST a competitive client, besides pointing out what Riot does and saying that the community does it manually so it's k. if you're worried about monetary losses due to a competitive server, I have little doubt that by co-coordinating with something like ESG you could limit accounts that have access to the Competitive server to those active with ESG.
According to the 4 reqs posted, this is well within the reach of G4box. Again, please correct me wherever I've mistaken something. -
Any news on the widescreen scope field of vision bug? I have a difficulty getting friends from other games to play when the only properly functional resolution choices are 1024x768 and 800x600. I realize the other resolutions do work, but the zoom glitch is just too much for most people to deal with.
I was aware there were some issues here, but I don't think the priority level was very high. I will see what I can do about getting this looked in to, or a change in priority level or at least a proper answer. -
I truly apologize for my poor english and simply a different way of expressing my own opinion. The reason behind it is the fact english isn't my native language. So there, again. I apologize!
"random word".... love it. I also love the line in which you question my intelligence and straight out insult me. I would never expect a great person like yourself to jump into insults simply because I proved you wrong. That is a surprise!
I understand you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I expect you to know the meaning of basic english vocabulary, and so do your teachers I'm sure.
all (ôl)
adj.
1. Being or representing the entire or total number, amount, or quantity: All the windows are open. Deal all the cards. See Synonyms at whole.
2. Constituting, being, or representing the total extent or the whole: all Christendom.
3. Being the utmost possible of: argued the case in all seriousness.
4. Every: got into all manner of trouble.
5. Any whatsoever: beyond all doubt.
HERP DERP. Lets pick a single word out of a nearly entirely true statement and then extrapolate it to include EVERY SINGLE case, then let us try to insult the poster by combining spastic and ignorant together at the end of a sentence.
Whether you meant to come off as hostile or not can only be answered by yourself, but the words you typed out are. Hence my hostility towards you. Another reason why you should brush up on your language skills.
You are right in the very basic point that not 'ALL' free FPS games have terrible communities. However, that is akin to pointing out such small factual errors and claiming it to be a fallacy because one used hyperbole.
I thought I had it summed up fairly well in my other post, but in case you missed it:...To further my point, nothing is ever black and white. To be exact, not every single free game has a terrible community. That point should have been so entirely obvious that to even type it out and hit the reply button makes me question your intelligence...Any news on the widescreen scope field of vision bug? I have a difficulty getting friends from other games to play when the only properly functional resolution choices are 1024x768 and 800x600. I realize the other resolutions do work, but the zoom glitch is just too much for most people to deal with.
Also, any word on higher resolutions and aspect ratios? -
Regarding a CF competitive client:
From what I understand, this is what you'd need to do it.
- Rights to host CF in NA. Obviously this may change depending on the terms of the agreement, but I'd assume that as long as you were paying Neowiz to host the game, they wouldn't care if you were making money off the extra server to host it on.
- Weapon limitations. Already proven to have that at a basic level (limiting specific types of nades) So I'd assume that G4 can do this with specific guns.
Just via that you can put up another SERVER that is limited to specific weapons that conform with the current standard. But even better is still possible.
- Unlocking weapons for accounts. Easy.
- New master server. I'm assuming that you'd need this to store account specifically for the competitive servers, but I could be wrong.
If I'm wrong on any of the requirements, PLEASE CORRECT ME.
In your post Saidin, I don't see any actual argument AGAINST a competitive client, besides pointing out what Riot does and saying that the community does it manually so it's k. if you're worried about monetary losses due to a competitive server, I have little doubt that by co-coordinating with something like ESG you could limit accounts that have access to the Competitive server to those active with ESG.
According to the 4 reqs posted, this is well within the reach of G4box. Again, please correct me wherever I've mistaken something.
We already use a server (echo) that is very rarely populated and have rules that most of the community follows. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »I was aware there were some issues here, but I don't think the priority level was very high. I will see what I can do about getting this looked in to, or a change in priority level or at least a proper answer.
Weird, as I assume your #1 priority is getting new users. Only thing the widescreen bug does is:
- Prevent a lot of players from coming to the game.
- Causing dissatisfaction (do you really think having unhappy users is okay?) within the ones that do put up with the game.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this bug has being out for at least 1 year. How can you sit down at your workplace and code on adding widescreen resolutions to CrossFire, then not realize that they are bugged, and even further... not do anything about it when players have being complaining for over a year? -
What is the exact point of this? We already use a server (echo) that is very rarely populated and have rules that most of the community follows.
Access to all competitive weapons and only competitive weapons.
Makes the competitive community easier to find for new players. -
throneofGod wrote: »dell go pick on that now
LOL
Oh Christ, he will do it now.Access to all competitive weapons and only competitive weapons.
Makes the competitive community easier to find for new players.
If you want to play at a slightly more serious level, you will search it out. Having it as pure public knowledge turns it more into a pub.
Now, slightly changing the clan channel to support more options would be better.
Allowing rejoins (but removing spawning during SnD), weapon restrictions, etc. on the clan server would eliminate a need for e8 and would basically do everything you want except give people free guns.
Edit: on top of that, they can track more things on the clan server. -
Oh Christ, he will do it now.
If you want to play at a slightly more serious level, you will search it out. Having it as pure public knowledge turns it more into a pub.
Now, slightly changing the clan channel to support more options would be better.
Allowing rejoins (but removing spawning during SnD), weapon restrictions, etc. on the clan server would eliminate a need for e8 and would basically do everything you want except give people free guns.
That's why I separated the two reqs, for two different options.
Not only the reasons I stated, but also, depending on HOW partnered with leagues and stuff, but using the league's A/C would be interesting to say the least.
A server that only allows competitive players to join (via sync with a league sign-up) and limits to league rules has a low probability of turning into a pub server, besides pubs that solely involve competitive players. -
That's why I separated the two reqs, for two different options.
Not only the reasons I stated, but also, depending on HOW partnered with leagues and stuff, but using the league's A/C would be interesting to say the least.
A server that only allows competitive players to join (via sync with a league sign-up) and limits to league rules has a low probability of turning into a pub server, besides pubs that solely involve competitive players.
I don't exactly disagree, but I don't see how this really benefits Z8. As Saidin has already said, the 'competitive' side isn't very large and they aren't really that big of a company. How does hosting another server help them? Even if you had to pay for the league (as I see what you are suggesting is similar to ESEA), how much would it take to run that website and have z8 make at least enough money to support the server? The reason it works for other games is because they own their own servers. We rely on z8, and they rely on over seas programmers... and the ones in charge of decision makings. -
I don't exactly disagree, but I don't see how this really benefits Z8. As Saidin has already said, the 'competitive' side isn't very large and they aren't really that big of a company. How does hosting another server help them? Even if you had to pay for the league (as I see what you are suggesting is similar to ESEA), how much would it take to run that website and have z8 make at least enough money to support the server? The reason it works for other games is because they own their own servers. We rely on z8, and they rely on over seas programmers... and the ones in charge of decision makings.
I don't think it would really help Z8 that much immediately. Directly they'd be able to use that as some sort of reason to play CF over other free games, and indirectly if CF succeeded competitively because of the draw/changes then they would most likely see some revenue increase.
As for how it would hurt them, I have no idea of the numbers so I can't begin to make an educated statement, but in the same direction of tying it in with leagues, I'm wondering if some form of entrance fee or portion of entrance fee could be used to cover some costs if it was really that much.
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