The Guide of Flawed Logic
Comments
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PR0PAGANDA wrote: »here is a thought for Godsgunnman
sensitivity settings for different guns , best zoom sensivity for snipers , ect
you can change it so where the m60 is not so sluggish , you catch ma drift?
everyones Pc is different I realize that
Won't work, because sensitivity in game is largely dependant on sensitivity for windows or your mouse -
GodsGunman wrote: »I agree with about 85% of this guide.
The M12s and scar light are indeed overpowered.
The M12s for the reasons VATAV stated.
The scar light because it does more damage than an m4a1, has less recoil, and is still a 1 shot kill weapon.
Technically you're correct, and if you're God at this game you'll do better with a 1 shot headshot gun than an m12s, however nobody that I or you know is God at this game.
You mentioned this:
"Basically what i'm trying to say is, there has never been someone so good/amazing that when they put on SPOP noone else can kill them because their peak time is 0.0001s faster."
However the m12s situation is pretty much the same idea. The chances of someone actually doing better with for example an m4a1 over an m12s due to them being as good or better than humanly possible, is about the same chance of being able to kill someone because their peak time is 0.0001s faster.
Plain and simple, the M12s makes noobs able to get easy kills.
When people that have even a little bit of skill/decency die from an m12ser, it's annoying because without the m12s, they would have had a higher chance to beat them if the person that killed them was using a gun other than the m12s since it's so easy to use.
Aye, you're his GUNMAN. -
GodsGunman wrote: »Technically you're correct, and if you're God at this game you'll do better with a 1 shot headshot gun than an m12s, however nobody that I or you know is God at this game.
^this. I used to be very good at 1shotting, but the fact is it's a very low percentage shot against people who actually know what they're doing. In TDM you can pop heads all day, but in SND it just doesn't work that way. You go for the body, which is 3-4 shots and much higher percentage. If you can hit a head in less than 3-4 rounds every time, then by all means, go for noggins, but most good players will get the better of you.
That said, I don't think the m12 is as game-changing as some would have you believe. If you're good, you pick which situations you fight in, and you can put yourself in long-distance attack points where ROF isn't that much of a factor. Guns that spray that many RPS are a pain in the ass to control long range, despite the low recoil. At that point you have to triple shot anyway, which isn't much different than someone using a rifle. It IS possible to use a m12 exactly like a m4, but people are gonna chew you out anyway, even if you 1tap everybody you kill. -
Advantages of the M12:
Very Low recoil.
High accuracy.
Tight clustered spray pattern.
Fast firing rate.
Light weight.
Fast reload.
No damage drop off for long range.
High damage compared to the rest of the SMGs.
You forgot high capacity magazine xDM12 is easy to learn, Easy to use, and highly effective compared to all the other weapons.
AKS-74U is ungodly beast, too. Cept you can't get it for a few thou' GP, so no one complains about it. -
sGosNitcheZ wrote: »People don't complain about weapons because they think they're amazing at this game ( most people.). It's just that some weapons, if you like it or not, do provide advantages.
What i'm saying is, it depends on what you decide is your 'base' level. If you decided uzis were the base level then many guns would be OP. I was pointing out that if you decided SL/M12s was OP while other guns such as M4/M14 weren't. That would be illogical. (As in my opinion, they are much more lethal).
In a way yes. But lets say player A has an M4 in mid on mexico, and player B has an M12s (for the sake of this situation, they're both the same skill level). If it's a CQC situation, the M12s will win most of the time, as a result of it's decent power, almost non-existent recoil, and high RoF. If that player had an M4, it'd be about a 50/50 chance of getting the kill or not.
If it was 50/50, that is fine is it not? Then change it to long distance and M12s is at a disadvantage. Meaning M4 is better overall.
No, but they do provide game changeable advantages.
I agree.
So just because someones a "competitive player" means they're able to 1 tap someone every time, BEFORE the other person starts shooting?
I didn't say that. I was stating a hypothetical situation where you judge guns, as judging guns based on your own skill level is inherently unfair.GodsGunman wrote: »Technically you're correct, and if you're God at this game you'll do better with a 1 shot headshot gun than an m12s, however nobody that I or you know is God at this game.
But you could still use that situation to judge if a gun is OP? The highest potential you can achieve with M4 higher than M12s. So you can't really say M12s is OP, as I feel that would be illogical.
You mentioned this:
"Basically what i'm trying to say is, there has never been someone so good/amazing that when they put on SPOP noone else can kill them because their peak time is 0.0001s faster."
However the m12s situation is pretty much the same idea. The chances of someone actually doing better with for example an m4a1 over an m12s due to them being as good or better than humanly possible, is about the same chance of being able to kill someone because their peak time is 0.0001s faster.
Actually, it is possible. You just don't remember/get continous headshots on the whole team because the people who do it are normally kicked straight after.
Plain and simple, the M12s makes noobs able to get easy kills.
Yes, that is true and I have never denied that, but that should not affect whether it is OP.
When people that have even a little bit of skill/decency die from an m12ser, it's annoying because without the m12s, they would have had a higher chance to beat them if the person that killed them was using a gun other than the m12s since it's so easy to use.
But their gun should have a higher potential, meaning they should probably just improve.NoobExplode wrote: »^this. I used to be very good at 1shotting, but the fact is it's a very low percentage shot against people who actually know what they're doing. In TDM you can pop heads all day, but in SND it just doesn't work that way. You go for the body, which is 3-4 shots and much higher percentage. If you can hit a head in less than 3-4 rounds every time, then by all means, go for noggins, but most good players will get the better of you.
That said, I don't think the m12 is as game-changing as some would have you believe. If you're good, you pick which situations you fight in, and you can put yourself in long-distance attack points where ROF isn't that much of a factor. Guns that spray that many RPS are a pain in the ass to control long range, despite the low recoil. At that point you have to triple shot anyway, which isn't much different than someone using a rifle. It IS possible to use a m12 exactly like a m4, but people are gonna chew you out anyway, even if you 1tap everybody you kill.
Agreed with most of what he said. Except you should go for head anyway, as you will get better :P. -
GodsGunman wrote: »I agree with about 85% of this guide.
The M12s and scar light are indeed overpowered.
The M12s for the reasons VATAV stated.
The scar light because it does more damage than an m4a1, has less recoil, and is still a 1 shot kill weapon.
Technically you're correct, and if you're God at this game you'll do better with a 1 shot headshot gun than an m12s, however nobody that I or you know is God at this game.
You mentioned this:
"Basically what i'm trying to say is, there has never been someone so good/amazing that when they put on SPOP noone else can kill them because their peak time is 0.0001s faster."
However the m12s situation is pretty much the same idea. The chances of someone actually doing better with for example an m4a1 over an m12s due to them being as good or better than humanly possible, is about the same chance of being able to kill someone because their peak time is 0.0001s faster.
Plain and simple, the M12s makes noobs able to get easy kills.
When people that have even a little bit of skill/decency die from an m12ser, it's annoying because without the m12s, they would have had a higher chance to beat them if the person that killed them was using a gun other than the m12s since it's so easy to use.
agreed 100% with him -
Well, please assume that I'm rubbish at reading. I am just finding it difficult to understand your argument. Could you please explain in baby language so I can?
1 + 1 - 1 = 1.
1 + 1 = 2.There aren't plenty of guns stronger than M4/AK/AWM if you imagine it in the scenario I described. Sure, there will be guns that can wallbang and some that will be silenced. But the differences would be minimal and SL/M12s/M4-adv would certainly not fall into the category of OP.
SL can 5 shot burst accurately, while running. No other viable gun can do this.
The fact that you don't see a silencer as being over powered (reduce the sound range for 54m to 15m, and make that sound VERY hard to hear at anything over 5m in gunfire) is blatantly ******ed.Also, "Holding people to my standard in order to apply gunstats and then try to use it as an argument for everyone elses settings." is what people are doing now. If you want to deem M4-adv as an OP weapon based on your standard, then there will obviously be people who are at a different level from you who will disagree. The most obvious thing to me was to just judge guns at the highest level. I am just proposing (what I think is) a fairer method of doing it, if you can think of a fairer method, please enlighten me.
I hold people to the standard that they all have brains which are so good at logic that they can work like a wallhack, thereby making silencer useless and not OP.
That's what you're doing. Do you see how ******ed it is? -
I hold people to the standard that they all have brains which are so good at logic that they can work like a wallhack, thereby making silencer useless and not OP.
That's what you're doing. Do you see how ******ed it is?
Ok, I accept your arguments. But can you not see that the current method is flawed? If someone did come along one day who could actually do everything you said, then what would they think of the method of classifying OP guns? In reality they don't even have to be that, they can just be world class and the power of silencers and ROF would be severly lessened.
And I do see how stupid my method looks, but to me it looks just as stupid as what is going on at the moment, with people in the community justifying arguments like 'M12s is OP because noobs can spray with it and kill people', isn't that holding people to the standard of noobs and judging whether guns are OP based on that? Would you like to suggest a fairer method? -
Ok, I accept your arguments. But can you not see that the current method is flawed? If someone did come along one day who could actually do everything you said, then what would they think of the method of classifying OP guns? In reality they don't even have to be that, they can just be world class and the power of silencers and ROF would be severly lessened.
If they weren't stupid then they'd think that guns that are OP when put against the vast vast vast majority of people are considered OP when put against the vast vast vast majority of people.And I do see how stupid my method looks, but to me it looks just as stupid as what is going on at the moment, with people in the community justifying arguments like 'M12s is OP because noobs can spray with it and kill people', isn't that holding people to the standard of noobs and judging whether guns are OP based on that? Would you like to suggest a fairer method?
There are no OP guns in public games, because public games are not a representation of skill.
So it doesn't matter. -
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Fair enough. So is there any part of the actual guide itself that you disagree with. Apart from, me still believing that M12s is not OP, whether it is in a public match or competitive setting. (For reasons stated, though it seems many disagree)
Note:- I have just stated the differences that I know of between SPOP and other characters. I have not passed judgement in the actual guide as to whether that gives a competitive advantage
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Fair enough. So is there any part of the actual guide itself that you disagree with. Apart from, me still believing that M12s is not OP, whether it is in a public match or competitive setting. (For reasons stated, though it seems many disagree)
Note:- I have just stated the differences that I know of between SPOP and other characters. I have not passed judgement in the actual guide as to whether that gives a competitive advantage
There's a reason I didn't post on the thread until people started arguing about it. -
Henry you just stated an argument that is so BS to compare the guns... m12 is op , m4 and ak are rifles people been using since 10 years ago in competitive gaming's , kinda the same with the awp's , people have mastered these guns in these cf versions , like minty mastered the awp and malte mastered the ak , when you see a player with monitor offline absolutely ****tyng on these players , there's something really wrong , either is the player or the gun , and I don't think the player can gain "skill" that fast.
If the people you mentioned cannot take out a noob holding a M12s with their screen off, they don't deserve to be called good. My argument is not bs, yours is. What has mastering guns got to do with how OP it is. Surely I can master whatever gun I like, but does that mean its not OP?Henry...The M12 Is Op, End Of Discussion
Winkie... The M12s is not OP. There Was No Discussion. -
If the people you mentioned cannot take out a noob holding a M12s with their screen off, they don't deserve to be called good. My argument is not bs, yours is. What has mastering guns got to do with how OP it is. Surely I can master whatever gun I like, but does that mean its not OP?
Winkie... The M12s is not OP. There Was No Discussion.
There Shouldnt Be One -
fckin spop phags
go play cs/css or ava instead of looking for a slightly advantage, to make you look a lil better than you really are, in a sh!tty game like this one
If this game is so ****, go play another game. Why even bother posting on the forums? -
If the people you mentioned cannot take out a noob holding a M12s with their screen off, they don't deserve to be called good. My argument is not bs, yours is. What has mastering guns got to do with how OP it is. Surely I can master whatever gun I like, but does that mean its not OP?
Winkie... The M12s is not OP. There Was No Discussion.
were talking in the realm of stupidty here...you are in denial , so to make you understand i will use the most bs argument ever
my skill level is 100 , i use ak and m4
that player skill level is 100 , he uses m12
he kills me.
/thread -
were talking in the realm of stupidty here...you are in denial , so to make you understand i will use the most bs argument ever
my skill level is 100 , i use ak and m4
that player skill level is 100 , he uses m12
he kills me.
/thread
That's where your wrong and not understanding me. If you both had skill level 100 i.e. Godlike. The m4/ak guy would win. And there is PLENTY of evidence to support this.
Your the only one in denial. -
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Please reread my posts +prove me thenAbout the M12 one.
True that someone that is so skilled that they might as well be a aimbot would do better with a 1 hit headshot weapon, but only about 0.1% of players would ever reach that skill level.
You may find you understand Vatav better.The only drawback of the M12 is the lack of a 1 hit head shot.GodsGunman wrote: »Technically you're correct, and if you're God at this game you'll do better with a 1 shot headshot gun than an m12s
Or even GodsGunman...
The point is. M12s is not always a 1 shot headshot gun. If you can hit headshots quite well and consistently, i.e. if your 'above average'. Then you will do better with M4/AK. Why then should M12s be an OP gun, if M4/AK aren't considered OP. -
becouse this game blows and you can't headshot people becouse they tank , lag ec and even the best player in the world can't consistently hit 1 headshot , learn ur factsPlease reread my posts +
You may find you understand Vatav better.
Or even GodsGunman...
The point is. M12s is not always a 1 shot headshot gun. If you can hit headshots quite well and consistently, i.e. if your 'above average'. Then you will do better with M4/AK. Why then should M12s be an OP gun, if M4/AK aren't considered OP. -
becouse this game blows and you can't headshot people becouse they tank , lag ec and even the best player in the world can't consistently hit 1 headshot , learn ur facts
I said quite well. In addition i'm afraid I can only laugh at your statement, while you tell me to learn my facts. -
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you seriously think that the best fps player in the world can consistently hit 1 shot headshot then ur dumb.
Again I stress, you keep saying consistently, while I have only said quite well. Here's a video of a WCG match between Hammertime and D0ngJia. They are arguably above average players. Watch the video, count the number of rifle hs and rifle not hs. Then tell me that's not headshotting quite well.
http://v.pptv.com/show/TTNT0TmfD03OZs4.html
I'm a noob and even I can headshot quite well. Your telling me I'm dumb because I believe in something I do every day. Please...The visual of SPOP makes a big difference.. Who wants to spray the air next to them.. it makes them harder to snype.
I never said it didn't. -
You kinda said the peek time difference is of no useAgain I stress, you keep saying consistently, while I have only said quite well. Here's a video of a WCG match between Hammertime and D0ngJia. They are arguably above average players. Watch the video, count the number of rifle hs and rifle not hs. Then tell me that's not headshotting quite well.
http://v.pptv.com/show/TTNT0TmfD03OZs4.html
I'm a noob and even I can headshot quite well. Your telling me I'm dumb because I believe in something I do every day. Please...
I never said it didn't.
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