I think I have a solution to the hacking problem
Comments
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cannonfadder wrote: »This will require work on the ENTIRE community .
Sorry to disappoint you but the majority of the community, including both the forumers and gamers, are underage the age of 18, thus they lack total common sense and respect for anything, especially when it comes down to playing the game(ie. hacking/trolling/raging) or anything. Not also to mention that the majority of gamers here on the US/UK servers do not speak English. Again, "total community," in any kind of resolution will not and cannot happen. -
The simplest method to solve the problems with the game would be ping capped entrance servers when the SA servers come.
.
Ping capped room will greatly reduced the amount of people playing in the NA/UK servers. trust me, they will not allow that to happen. -
Ping capped room will greatly reduced the amount of people playing in the NA/UK servers. trust me, they will not allow that to happen.
The NA servers are filled with Non-NA players because the Non-NA players chased nearly all the NA players away. NA players quit because they kept seeing hackers with 150+ ping every day and kept getting kicked by the 150+ ping players constantly and saw Z8 doing nothing about it.
Once the SA servers come they need to force the SA players to play their otherwise the game will just keep dieing. The average age of Non-NA players is 8-14, how many 8-14 year olds do you think have a extra cash to spend? This game needs to be marketing towards the 16-24 year old male NA players, as long as its catering to Non-NA players the NA players will just move to a different game.
The age group 16-24 years has the most extra cash to spend due to getting jobs but not having many bills to pay. 16-24 year old males are also the most likely group to enjoy a FPS game. Most of the servers are in the NA so they should be focusing on NA players.
Whats more profitable? 100,000 NA 16-24 year old players with a extra 300-500 dollars a month to spend on stuff or 500,000 8-14 SA year olds who are lucky to even get 10 dollars to spend a month?
Get rid of Non-NA players and the NA players will start to slowly come back.
Keep the Non-NA players and nearly all NA players will be chased away. -
The age group 16-24 years has the most extra cash to spend due to getting jobs but not having many bills to pay. 16-24 year old males are also the most likely group to enjoy a FPS game. Most of the servers are in the NA so they should be focusing on NA players.
Whats more profitable? 100,000 NA 16-24 year old players with a extra 300-500 dollars a month to spend on stuff or 500,000 8-14 SA year olds who are lucky to even get 10 dollars to spend a month?
Get rid of Non-NA players and the NA players will start to slowly come back.
Keep the Non-NA players and nearly all NA players will be chased away.
If you want to write up a business plan for this and pitch it to them, I'd be more than happy to help out :] I would include an entire section about customer satisfaction and trust. No one wants to spend money in a game for an advantage that still can't match up to the free hacks you can get online. Target the right people, let them know that their money is well-spent, be more stringent with anti-hack policies, and you have the opportunity to milk this game for all it's worth.
I said it before and I'll say it again: ditch xtrap and find a company who can provide the service the way you need it. This is said from a business standpoint, not a player standpoint, although it would do a hell of a lot of good for both. I haven't put a dime into this game in 2011, but in 2010 I had about $300 from ZP purchases and surveys. I love the game, but I've lost faith that the hack situation will improve. -
I have notiiced from page 1, that some of you really just like to come on to these threads just to slam people. The guy is here just trying to make a suggestion that could help Z8 clean up the hacker issues. If his logic is flawed, just tell him. Not SLAM him. At least he is giving a SH!t about the game and not raging. Just lighten up.
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love how ur thinking but, the thing about seeing how many times a person gets kicked is the only bad thing cuz the ''low lvls'' call u a hacker just becuz u have a positive k/d in the match -.- i.e. i got kicked today like 3-4 times bec I had a score of 15/2 in laboratory
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love how ur thinking but, the thing about seeing how many times a person gets kicked is the only bad thing cuz the ''low lvls'' call u a hacker just becuz u have a positive k/d in the match -.- i.e. i got kicked today like 3-4 times bec I had a score of 15/2 in laboratory
9 out of 10 ghost swear I'm hacking even tho nearly all my kills are of running ghost or ghost that moved recently. Rarely ever encounter B hoppers anymore.
Apparently being able to shoot a moving target is impossible with out cheating. -
warning: i didnt read all the posts so i dunno if its already said or not(ill just write it down before i forget XD.
so what bout prioritizing reports of players that have a good ratio of players banned/players reported, that way quality of past reports would be taken into account
this will slow down even more new people's report but the ones with more experience are the ones that check,catch,kick,save and report the more so why not give credit to those?
edit: and please dont bash and try to be constructive, i admit it his idea is bad(especially from a legit/good player point of view, but he IS trying unlike some of u, so stop with the bad posts and plz be constructive or go somewhere else -
warning: i didnt read all the posts so i dunno if its already said or not(ill just write it down before i forget XD.
so what bout prioritizing reports of players that have a good ratio of players banned/players reported, that way quality of past reports would be taken into account
this will slow down even more new people's report but the ones with more experience are the ones that check,catch,kick,save and report the more so why not give credit to those?
edit: and please dont bash and try to be constructive, i admit it his idea is bad(especially from a legit/good player point of view, but he IS trying unlike some of u, so stop with the bad posts and plz be constructive or go somewhere else
I'd prioritize reports by age of account.
Like if a account is over a year old there reports get a high priority, like have 1 person dedicated to reviewing reports from old account users.
Its not a bad idea, but it alone won't solve the problem. -
I'd prioritize reports by age of account.
Like if a account is over a year old there reports get a high priority, like have 1 person dedicated to reviewing reports from old account users.
Its not a bad idea, but it alone won't solve the problem.
i know it wont solve the problem alone but it will help even if a couple hackers get banned per week, and this is (i think and hope) a easy to make thing and will help temporarily till something more effective comes up, or be used as a base for a better report sistem like this one(just to show the thought process):
establishing a group of trusted players(like mods(just for a comparison point nothing else) but a wider group) and give them priority on reports
simple things might take better shape if properly discussed and developed ^^ -
9 out of 10 ghost swear I'm hacking even tho nearly all my kills are of running ghost or ghost that moved recently. Rarely ever encounter B hoppers anymore.
Apparently being able to shoot a moving target is impossible with out cheating.
Thats the reason why I get kicked lol, for kiling players that apparently think that ur invisible when u run or they think u can bhop by just crouching and pressing space -.- hard to find a pro room nowadays, smtimes even the high ranks start QQing lol, and I mean lieutenants and even captains lol -
i know it wont solve the problem alone but it will help even if a couple hackers get banned per week, and this is (i think and hope) a easy to make thing and will help temporarily till something more effective comes up, or be used as a base for a better report sistem like this one(just to show the thought process):
establishing a group of trusted players(like mods(just for a comparison point nothing else) but a wider group) and give them priority on reports
simple things might take better shape if properly discussed and developed ^^
Lets recap for those who don't read the entire thread.
The main problem is: Amount of hackers.
Main factors to the problem:
1. X-trap unable to keep up on patches.
2. Community not kicking the hackers.
3. Support unable to process all its reports.
4. Unable to keep the hackers from remaking accounts.
Main reason to hack: High ping.
What Z8s plan is.
X-trap is what prevents the hacks.
Support eventually gets the hackers that slip through X-trap.
The community kicks hackers well X-trap and Support catch them.
Good in theory, but failing in practice.
X-trap can't keep up with the hack makers.
Support is getting way more reports then it can go through.
The community is refusing to kick the hackers.
All these are caused by the massive amount of High ping players in the game.
High ping players make the majority of hackers, and thus the hack maker's customers.
With so many customers they can make a living on making hacks, thus are more focused then X-trap.
The massive amount of players are sending lots of reports, most are false or incomplete.
These all take time to go through and thus support is bogged down.
High ping players will rarely ever kick a high ping hacker. Mostly due to the High ping players wanting revenge on the Low ping players because most High pings think all Low pings hack.
The few that due get banned just make a new account in minutes because there is nothing stopping them from doing it. IP bans are very easy to get around. -
Main factors to the problem:
1. X-trap unable to keep up on patches.
2. Community not kicking the hackers.
3. Support unable to process all its reports.
4. Unable to keep the hackers from remaking accounts.
Main reason to hack: High ping.
i did a thread to try and minor the number 2 point and keep the new players from starting to hack(the frustration part of hacks) but it needed the help of the most experienced players to work, which most dont have time nor patience for it.
here it is: http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=145997
but i think it would be nothing but utopic thinking
i agree some(most) hackers have high pings but it wouldnt be fair to just "ban" high pings since some of them are legit and indeed very good(unless "banning" them would bring z8 more income)
and my other point on the pryority of reports is , if quantity isnt working why not try quality .
so to end we cant do much(or anithing at all) on point nr.1, and theres few we can do on 3/4, AND theres little that can be done on 2 UNLESS we act like a good community/concerned players and try to do things to better it(even though the majority are lost cases of trolls, ragers etc, it takes the community to make a better community)
edit: btw isnt there already some threads about this kind of thing ? my point is... didnt they come to a point that could help the current status of the game, that we could try and develop them even further or something else XD? -
i did a thread to try and minor the number 2 point and keep the new players from starting to hack(the frustration part of hacks) but it needed the help of the most experienced players to work, which most dont have time nor patience for it.
here it is: http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=145997
but i think it would be nothing but utopic thinking
i agree some(most) hackers have high pings but it wouldnt be fair to just "ban" high pings since some of them are legit and indeed very good(unless "banning" them would bring z8 more income)
and my other point on the pryority of reports is , if quantity isnt working why not try quality .
so to end we cant do much(or anithing at all) on point nr.1, and theres few we can do on 3/4, AND theres little that can be done on 2 UNLESS we act like a good community/concerned players and try to do things to better it(even though the majority are lost cases of trolls, ragers etc, it takes the community to make a better community)
edit: btw isnt there already some threads about this kind of thing ? my point is... didnt they come to a point that could help the current status of the game, that we could try and develop them even further or something else XD?
If it was just hacking and high ping players actually tried to kick high ping hackers then I wouldn't suggest ping caps.
Thing is the majority of the high ping players are little kids who don't understand English and just want to pwn everyone but are unable due to both their high ping and inexperience with video games.
Because they are unable to do well in this game many hack accuse and kick vote people doing better then them. And because Low ping players have a easy time beating High ping players, most High pings think all Low pings hack.
Point 1. If the hack makers lose their customer base (which is almost entirely high ping players) they would need to find a new way to make a income, this leads to less focus on CF hacks and allows X-trap to catch up.
Point 2. The High ping community has shown that their both unwilling to change their behavior and have shown that they don't care about the rules at all. Since they won't change the next course of action would be to remove them.
Point 3. Quality reports means more bans but that doesn't change the sheer quantity they get. This game has 750,000+ registered accounts, if only half of those are active and 1 out of 100 of those active reported hackers when they see them and we assume at least 1 report per person that still be 3,750 reports a day. Each report would take about 10 minutes to review, so that is 37,500 minutes or 625 hours of reviewing a day.
If the staff has about 10 people that is 62.5 hours of reports needed to be completed per person a day with only a 8 hour work day.
Z8 is a Free-to-play game host so they can't afford to higher more people to do the reports. -
xXThantosXx wrote: »I have a great solution to the hacking problem, even if Z8 banns an account permanently it takes 5 mins. top to create a new one.....so the Idea is that Z8 could charge $5 for every new account made
New player + never played = Cant play because he aint got $5.
This games isn't even worth the cost people put into it for crates weapons (which, btw, are actually just reskins with extra ammo...and people can make their own weapons skins anyway.) -
New player + never played = Cant play because he aint got $5.
This games isn't even worth the cost people put into it for crates weapons (which, btw, are actually just reskins with extra ammo...and people can make their own weapons skins anyway.)
How can they be new if they got banned previously? -
Unsubstantiated twaddleIf it was just hacking and high ping players actually tried to kick high ping hackers then I wouldn't suggest ping caps.
Thing is the majority of the high ping players are little kids who don't understand English and just want to pwn everyone but are unable due to both their high ping and inexperience with video games .
Tempting as it may be, its redundant to generalise as you do about players based simply on ping, you certainly cannot extrapolate age and language skill from ping!
The only conclusions you can draw from ping relate to distance from the servers - once you move beyond that, as you have done in your posts, you are simply making massive and emotive generalisations without statistical back-up, and you look like just another young kid shooting uninformed garbage from the hip.
Having played these sorts of games since they were first published - I could equally say -
that I observe an enormous number of low ping players who are just young kids who play without any finesse, their only advantage being their ping.
Having shot a 150-200 ping player with their 5-30 ping, they then troll the player and tell him he's useless. Then when the SKILLED higher ping player 0wns them, and their similarly novice friends, he is hacusated, trolled some more (probably involving his mother and/or sister) ..and then usually kicked, or they at least attempt to...and if the kick fails the trolling continues for the whole game and the 'Host' kicks from game lobby at the end.
Fundamentally they cannot take what they dish out and as such are not emotionally qualified to play the game.
They do this cos:
- They have NFI
- They are what society calls children
- They are immature
- Inexperienced
- Rude
- Arrogant
- are teh suk
- Immature (needs at least 2 entries)
- Have NFI about real-time network game environments
- Are Trolls
- Have listened to loud mouths who also have NFI and who make up 'facts' to suit without any statistical proofs
- Have NFI (did I mention that already cos this is a really important one)
So cos ping filtering would lead to stopping entire global regions - which is obviously not going to make a good business plan ... and judging by the red/green 'market' map Z8 shared would destroy their current markets duh...so,..
- how about age filtering, troll filtering, rudeness filtering. Most important, lets filter people who have NFI. And lets make people take a psyche test before we give them an account!! Cos that would actually work!! Duh
So now Vatav, having balanced your massive, impractical and inaccurate generalistions, can we get back to some practical suggestions.
And lets remember that this IS an international game - the servers are not just installed for the benefit of people who happen to live in North America or the UK and a 250 ping spread is a fact of life here to stay - deal with it. -
cannonfadder wrote: »This will require work on the ENTIRE community not just the GM's but they'll have to step up their game as well. The first and most important step is that we must start reporting hackers. The next thing that has to happen is for the GM's to keep a tally of how many times 1 person was reported and/or votekicked within a certain timeframe, then based on the players games that day see who the players were in the match who either A f12'd or B refused to kick, and give all those players a 2 day ban. I know its not an elegant solution, because I dont know computer code but I can't imagine it would be that hard to come up with a program to do MOST of that for the GM's. I encourage you all to tweak my idea seeing as it would make the game SOOOO much better for the community as a whole, for those of you who took the time to read this thanks, I know theres a lot of lazy players.
Layout your post little more professional.
Z8Games Game Moderators will not listen because they don't code the game.
You will need to take this up with the developers of the game. -
Tempting as it may be, its redundant to generalise as you do about players based simply on ping, you certainly cannot extrapolate age and language skill from ping!
The only conclusions you can draw from ping relate to distance from the servers - once you move beyond that, as you have done in your posts, you are simply making massive and emotive generalisations without statistical back-up, and you look like just another young kid shooting uninformed garbage from the hip.
Having played these sorts of games since they were first published - I could equally say -
that I observe an enormous number of low ping players who are just young kids who play without any finesse, their only advantage being their ping.
Having shot a 150-200 ping player with their 5-30 ping, they then troll the player and tell him he's useless. Then when the SKILLED higher ping player 0wns them, and their similarly novice friends, he is hacusated, trolled some more (probably involving his mother and/or sister) ..and then usually kicked, or they at least attempt to...and if the kick fails the trolling continues for the whole game and the 'Host' kicks from game lobby at the end.
Fundamentally they cannot take what they dish out and as such are not emotionally qualified to play the game.
They do this cos:
- They have NFI
- They are what society calls children
- They are immature
- Inexperienced
- Rude
- Arrogant
- are teh suk
- Immature (needs at least 2 entries)
- Have NFI about real-time network game environments
- Are Trolls
- Have listened to loud mouths who also have NFI and who make up 'facts' to suit without any statistical proofs
- Have NFI (did I mention that already cos this is a really important one)
So cos ping filtering would lead to stopping entire global regions - which is obviously not going to make a good business plan ... and judging by the red/green 'market' map Z8 shared would destroy their current markets duh...so,..
- how about age filtering, troll filtering, rudeness filtering. Most important, lets filter people who have NFI. And lets make people take a psyche test before we give them an account!! Cos that would actually work!! Duh
So now Vatav, having balanced your massive, impractical and inaccurate generalistions, can we get back to some practical suggestions.
And lets remember that this IS an international game - the servers are not just installed for the benefit of people who happen to live in North America or the UK and a 250 ping spread is a fact of life here to stay - deal with it.
What solution do you have to the current hacking problem then?
What do you suggest to stop the kick abusing?
Where did you read that this is CF international?
I made my suggestion based off of what I observed over the years of playing this game.
I've been playing since the Beta well hosted by Subagames, the hacking problems have always come and gone, but it was mostly under control.
Even back in Subagames days hackers were kicked.
Now it seems no one is trying to kick them, is it to much to ask for the game to return to what it was in September 2010? Before all this hack accusing, kick abusing, and rampant hacking?
If a another option were to be possible I would support it over Ping caps.
But at the moment this is the only one I've seen that could work. -
What solution do you have to the current hacking problem then?
What do you suggest to stop the kick abusing?
Where did you read that this is CF international?
If a another option were to be possible I would support it over Ping caps.
But at the moment this is the only one I've seen that could work.
I made a practical suggestion post a little earlier in this thread - part of it involved using RedFlag reports from 'trusted' and experienced players to address 2 categories of hacking.
There is a map Z8 posted that showed their license areas/service area in red/green. Someone may be able to help us with a link to it. I think it was partly offered in the context of IP filtering and explaining how the 'world' licenses were divied up.
Kick abusing is a maturity issue I think - and probably based in frustration as I think you may have alluded to. Frustration will only subside when some of these fundamental issues are dealt with.
Back in 2009 when we had less players and less hackers and a more straight-forward game this issue of kick abuse wasn't as bad, although it still occurred. I don't remember that people who hacked or glitched were as protected as they are now. Missions seem to have provided an incentive to keep a hacker on a team. The only way to combat that is to make a round fail if hack assisted. But with XTrap as it is - without quick updates or even moderately effective protection we are a long way from that.
Personally, I think the problem is so bad that it cannot be solved without assistance from the player group. Which is why I suggested using experienced and trusted players working with Z8 to fast track hack-reports and get a lot of accounts banned in a short space of time. Probably as some kind of undercover operation to max out its effectiveness. -
I made a practical suggestion post a little earlier in this thread - part of it involved using RedFlag reports from 'trusted' and experienced players to address 2 categories of hacking.
There is a map Z8 posted that showed their license areas/service area in red/green. Someone may be able to help us with a link to it. I think it was partly offered in the context of IP filtering and explaining how the 'world' licenses were divied up.
Kick abusing is a maturity issue I think - and probably based in frustration as I think you may have alluded to. Frustration will only subside when some of these fundamental issues are dealt with.
Back in 2009 when we had less players and less hackers and a more straight-forward game this issue of kick abuse wasn't as bad, although it still occurred. I don't remember that people who hacked or glitched were as protected as they are now. Missions seem to have provided an incentive to keep a hacker on a team. The only way to combat that is to make a round fail if hack assisted. But with XTrap as it is - without quick updates or even moderately effective protection we are a long way from that.
Personally, I think the problem is so bad that it cannot be solved without assistance from the player group. Which is why I suggested using experienced and trusted players working with Z8 to fast track hack-reports and get a lot of accounts banned in a short space of time. Probably as some kind of undercover operation to max out its effectiveness.
Having in game mods whose main purpose is to either ban or kick players would be effective. But we'll need a couple hundred to go through all the channels and rooms. Getting that amount of trust worthy people who won't abuse the power would be difficult.
the map you were referring to is:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=166411
And here is the thread that came before it announcing this change:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=165034&highlight=restriction
Note how he keeps saying NA/UK players.
Giving priority to reports from trusted/experienced players is also a improvement but we still need a way to get through all the reports that support gets. Also the temp file needs to be returned, because now to report a hacker we need to play with the hacker till the end.
Edit: also from G4box (makers of CF).
http://www.g4box.com/products.asp#crossfire -
Why don't they just make it so the room host can auto kick anyone etc. The hosts of rooms usually like to keep their rooms clean and fair. You should still be able to suggest kick but the verdict comes down to the room host. And yes the host may be a hacker himself/support hackers on his team to win. And IM sure he may abuse his powers in other ways but it is his room after all and you joined, so you either bare with it or look for a better more mature room host.
Also another suggestion to improve on the first would be a having a host list. A host list is a list which is compiled by a user of hosts they think run a nice clean room to have fun in. To make it easy to identify the trusted hosts in the room list they will be shaded in the color green so you can easily and efficiently navigate to rooms. Also on the other hand you will have a distrusted host list which will be indicated with a red highlight in the room list and all other hosts will be neutral with no color to their room name. -
Having in game mods whose main purpose is to either ban or kick players would be effective. But we'll need a couple hundred to go through all the channels and rooms. Getting that amount of trust worthy people who won't abuse the power would be difficult.
the map you were referring to is:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=166411
And here is the thread that came before it announcing this change:
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=165034&highlight=restriction
Note how he keeps saying NA/UK players.
Giving priority to reports from trusted/experienced players is also a improvement but we still need a way to get through all the reports that support gets. Also the temp file needs to be returned, because now to report a hacker we need to play with the hacker till the end.
Edit: also from G4box (makers of CF).
http://www.g4box.com/products.asp#crossfire
The map showed Australia and New Zealand as green - the license issue is confusing, i think its about hosting rights 'in-country' which is different from a commercial 'service area'.
I agree with you, logistically, the z8 support/GM teams are still going to have to be the final judges of banning - no avoiding that if the hack protection system is unable to identify hacks without returning so many false possitives. This would be the case with my RedFlag report/trsuted player scenario, the only advantage with this suggestion is that it requires no new system or coding - just a new arrangement to implement.
And yes again, there are so many hackers so widespread throughout the server channels that the task is massive - which is why i think the player group needs to assist. After all, a forum mod is really just a comunity member steppeing up to assist - its the same thing. I guess two things are required, re-instatement of in-game mods (current mods seem focused on forums only) and using the trusted experience player group to assist in a massive and intense clean-up
I also agree with the suggestion to re-instate the replaytemp file access - its extremely painful to endure the whole game when you know from a single round you have all the evidence that should be required for a hack ban.
I also really like MashTown's suggestion of flagging trusted room hosts. This is a bit like the web-plugin WOT that offers advice on trusted web-sites. A very good idea IMO. But it requires a patch update so cannot be immediately forthcoming. Also, I guess you would only get a 'green' based on player votes. With so many hack clans we would still end up with hosts flagged green when red would be a better colour - even so, it would do much to improve things and assist in guiding us to more 'sportsmanlike' rooms. -
I really like this game alot. I would also like to pay for ZP for better things but to me it is not worth it because of the BS you go through in this game. Hackers and QQers getting you kicked ETC. One day i hope this game rises up and screws the hackers over.
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well my friend i agree something needs to be done.but reporting hackers LOL,that is a waste of time,i still have reports in from 6 months ago,and i still see them playing. not maybe hacks blatant hacks.a way of maybe dealing with them is punishing the players who keep them in..... by if a player gets4 or more attempts to kick them and they dont get kicked then the game should end...everyone back to lobby no points for anyone,when the idiots that keep hacks in game realise they are going to loose points they will soon start kicking in turn the hacks will get kicked more often. just a thought xd.
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http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=165034&highlight=restriction
Note how he keeps saying NA/UK players.
Never noticed that until you mentioned it but yeah he lead us on to believe that everyone outside NA/UK would be restricted. Maybe he should live up to what he says and do something about it instead of just leading us on.
Also i believe that they should add IP restrictions to SA. Yes it would make people mad but in the end im pretty sure it would lower the number of ha,ckers by 70%.
Another thing is, the way everyone says give the brs their own servers. Tell me what is going to stop them from ha,cking? Coming to our servers to get more kills and ruin our gameplay. I also believe that ping capping the servers wouldnt work because with all the maint the Z8 does seems to usually affect ping in some way and taking into account the number of people who get ping spikes
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