Things that need to be said and heard - Part 4
Comments
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***actical wrote: »When someone cuts you off and almost causes you to wreck your car and possibly end your life, don't you get angry? Don't you swear up a storm in your car? Most people do...because they can't stand idiots almost doing in someone/anyone else witht heir stupidity.
Same applies to the game...9 hackers pizz you off, your more then likley to come on the forum and cry outrage about it, because it's warranted...
When you compare a video game to almost or possibly dying you need to get a reality check. It is people like you that cause the problem. In cases in which truth is regarded as trolling because people cannot face their own ignorance.
<sorry link had to be removed>
I think most forum users figured out that any suggestions posted are essentially meaningless. To be honest the only time I bother posted anymore is when I am intoxicated or if I am browsing and find something comical. -
***actical wrote: »When someone cuts you off and almost causes you to wreck your car and possibly end your life, don't you get angry? Don't you swear up a storm in your car? Most people do...because they can't stand idiots almost doing in someone/anyone else witht heir stupidity.
Same applies to the game...9 hackers pizz you off, your more then likley to come on the forum and cry outrage about it, because it's warranted...
OH NOES A HACK KILLED YOU IN A PUB. YOU ALMOST DIED IN YOUR COMPUTER CHAIR!!!
If you are tired of playing with cheaters, become a competitive player. We police ourselves. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »You may be correct. It may be impossible to beat, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to modify or control that flow in order to produce more positive results along the way. That's the mystery and wonder of the human mind.
Yes it is. It can be used in a positive or negative way as well. You could say that I am manipulating the way people think about this community in order to produce am different way of thinking. Therefore, I am modifying the "flow" of this specific instance of human nature to act in a more positive manner through the stimuli of positive reinforcement. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.
Psychological discussion @ 3am = Priceless
No offense, but I doubt you have actually manipulated anyone with these topics. I have read all the threads, and the only response I get out of them is, "Hmmm. Sounds nice."
I think I can say with reasonable accuracy, that myself and many players aren't going to change who we are as a player due to reading a few posts on the forums. It's just hard to have that epiphany moment as a player. I've only had 2 or 3 in 10 years of competitive gaming.
1) Was during a bo5 broodwar match with a friend back in 2001.]
2) Was during a rtcw scrim in ~2005.
3) Was during my first lan in 2006.
Could possibly have a 4th at WEM, but it is hard to say. Really depends on performance. -
Cypherrrr said it best I think, people need a reality check, 90% of the time you won't change peoples minds on a forum or see your point, let a lone agree with you. So what happens is the thread degrades or the game because of a need to prove you are correct, even if you are you won't accomplish what it is you want which ends in frustration causing things to degrade even further. Accept that you can't change peoples minds and let them have their own opinions even if you don't agree with it. If in game you get suspect someone of cheating make really darn sure before you start a kick vote or accusing, you can't rule out the luck factor, think about the lucky shots you have personally made, we all have it happens. Think before you speak or act on something rather than react.
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Deltin24018 wrote: »If in game you get suspect someone of cheating make really darn sure before you start a kick vote or accusing, you can't rule out the luck factor, think about the lucky shots you have personally made, we all have it happens. Think before you speak or act on something rather than react.
Being on the receiving end of a kick for "hacking" in almost every pub room I play, you really do become desensitized to getting kicked after a certain amount of time. It just becomes part of pubbing. All it really does is steer me away from the game. -
I love crossfire. Of all games, I play this one the most. I agree the crossfire coomunity is a bunch of ******s. You use a strategy and they call you camper. You snipe and they call you camper noob as if you are supposed to rush with the awm or something. You fail in defusing the bomb and they kick you. You wear armor, which only makes sense, and they call you noob. You use the m12 or scar ligth and they call you noob. You spend money on zp to get the good stuff and they call you noob. You have been playing since crossfire was ran by subagames and they call you farmer because of your rank. The community is a bunch of ******s that has never really played a good strategic game such as counter strike or call of duty. Bunch of stupid kids. The good players who are graceful in winning and graceful losing who only worries about their kdr not wins/losses are few and far between.
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I think most forum users figured out that any suggestions posted are essentially meaningless. To be honest the only time I bother posted anymore is when I am intoxicated or if I am browsing and find something comical.
Sorry I had to remove that link. Even with the warning.
One of the biggest problems we have with suggestions is that rarely do people suggest something we a) have control over or b) they suggest something so ludicrous that would only affect them or a small % of the people playing.
Remember that this community here that we are trying to improve still only makes up a small % of the games population. So even something that might be considered a good idea by 10 people doesn't represent something that we can influence for positive direction for the entire game.
But there are suggestions that we do take to heart and try to influence the direction of the game and the community. For example, we'll see a suggestion coming in this patch based on one of Polleus' threads from a few weeks ago. (more news on that to come later)
There's nothing ever wrong with speaking your mind (intelligently) and suggesting something you think would benefit the game. But don't come here and whine and complain about something without backup, evidence, proof or thought. Those are the kinds of suggestions that are meaningless and useless.
Anyways, carry on with the thread. That was mostly a sidetrack. We don't like it when people get discouraged from posting suggestions. Sure we understand that we cannot execute every last one of them. But we like to read them and they can help influence the direction and decisions we make here. -
Xtrap is a fail right now especially with the hack out that hides from xtrap allowing speed hack and aimbot. In every room I play, there are at least 2. I hate to say it but majority are BRs. It has gotten to the point where most of my clan will not play free for all unless it is a locked room and only friends are invited. Even in clan scrims, clans are scrimming with these piece of crap players who are quick to call themselves pro and you a noob. The only thing pro about them is their hack download skills. xtrap needs to be replaced with a better system such as punk buster and anti cheat program used in wogl tournaments. But that to will be exploited but not as bad as xtrap did. Or even perhaps changing the game engine. With these hackers now with their noob accounts, it is definitely bringing the morale down with the good players. Discouraging at the least. I know I really dont want to spend anymore ZP until it is brought to control. It definitely gives us bad attitudes during game play where once it was always a fun attitude.
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No offense, but I doubt you have actually manipulated anyone with these topics. I have read all the threads, and the only response I get out of them is, "Hmmm. Sounds nice.
Whether or not the people who posted these are big parts of this community or not, something changed after reading the thread. I don't care if it's you or the new guy on the forums. Changing someone's mind is the first step to changing other people's mind. Even someone with very little influence, if he changes one person's mind because of the fact that he/she thinks differently now, then the point of this thread has succeeded. I'm sure you've been around long enough to realize that people can be influenced, especially in an online community. Maybe not everyone, but I at least have to try. I consider it a success if I got ONE person to think differently. That's what most of you probably don't understand, haha.ThePassword wrote: »any how ya, I got hope and I chear you on Pollues, Nothing can go wrong with some hope.I suppose you are correct and I will work on changing my attitude. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Whether or not the people who posted these are big parts of this community or not, something changed after reading the thread. I don't care if it's you or the new guy on the forums. Changing someone's mind is the first step to changing other people's mind. Even someone with very little influence, if he changes one person's mind because of the fact that he/she thinks differently now, then the point of this thread has succeeded. I'm sure you've been around long enough to realize that people can be influenced, especially in an online community. Maybe not everyone, but I at least have to try. I consider it a success if I got ONE person to think differently. That's what most of you probably don't understand, haha.
Thinking differently doesn't do much, it's the actions that drive change that are important.
I can think, analyze, and say "I am going to become a better player." all day long. Until I actually begin to fix the faults in my game play I will not be any better of a player.
Easiest way to fix this community in my eyes is just start perma banning repeat offenders. A large punishment for first time offenders would also help guide peoples actions. You don't resist/impede an officer, because you know it will just make the punishment that much worse.
I prefer to avoid these ideology threads, I'm done here. Good luck on your mission. -
Thinking differently doesn't do much, it's the actions that drive change that are important.
I can think, analyze, and say "I am going to become a better player." all day long. Until I actually begin to fix the faults in my game play I will not be any better of a player.
Easiest way to fix this community in my eyes is just start perma banning repeat offenders. A large punishment for first time offenders would also help guide peoples actions. You don't resist/impede an officer, because you know it will just make the punishment that much worse.
I prefer to avoid these ideology threads, I'm done here. Good luck on your mission.
Thank you for the suggestions, as always. I appreciate your input. -
leon129079 wrote: »please stop complain about votekick, its needed the way it is
Well, learn some pinpoint and go (TRY) to play some GM matchs... i am sure u will (HATE) love be kiked from every single MAP! sometimes i need 2 hours (or more) to do a "6 complex game" mission! -
Oh well, I figured it would probably have to be removed. It was rather graphic, I do admit I enjoy being overly dramatic and that most of my statements should be taken with a grain of salt and understanding that I rarely post what is reasonable or correct.[GM]Saidin wrote: »Sorry I had to remove that link. Even with the warning.
Although what I hope to do is incite thought. But back to my thought, the fact is the majority of suggestions are ones that are trivial (they would only produce a small amount of good) or lack a basis in the reality of the situation (the issue of the disconnect between community and developers). But in the end one cannot look at it too harshly. In every game there are issues, bugs, exploits, hacks, a game free of such blemishes simply does not exist. Perfection can not be created by what is imperfect. Furthermore everyone's idea of what is best is different. If there was agreement on such matters within the human race life would be simple and boring.
edit: Nice I dodged that infraction, although I fully expected one.
But while interesting it is not the intent of this thread so I shall let it die...
I think that in the end without rules (rules that exist with a reasonable belief of enforcement) there is no rational person that would cooperate. For an example, I posted a rather graphic image that most likely was a breach of the rules regarding forum conduct. While one could argue I only posted a link and provided a warning it is of little importance. Why? Because I failed to post a proper disclaimer, nor did I explain the nature of the link. Yet I was not given a infraction when it would have been reasonable to do so. In the same respect players can "flame" each other and not receive an infraction even though it is stated that doing so can result in one according the the listed Z8 forum rules. Hence there is little reason to believe that the rules will be enforced as stated. One could also look at this further and note that you can simply make a new forum account. Or relate it to the game and look at how players can cheat get banned then simply make a new account and cheat again.
Forum Rules for Reference -
Caring about other people and being polite on your comments is good not only for the guy you're helping out but for the others. But specially, for YOU.
It's like in real life: if you help others you'll be helping yourself at the same time. You feel better inside and the community will think that you are a great guy, but how about trolling? Taking challenges with other trollers to see who wins a virtual fight? I expect more than that from you people.
The first thing that people think if you are answering a player question properly or acting like an adult is: Wannabe Moderator. It can be, yeah, but not in all cases. -
@Us3rK
The problem is why should I feel good about helping someone else? Would I not feel better if I had taken that time to help my self?
Furthermore why would it matter if I helped someone else. If I wanted I could go make a new account (lets say h0tchix13223 for our purpose) and ask for help. Why would it matter then what my reputation on this forum account (Cypherrr) was? I would be for all intents are purposes a new individual (lets say I changed my ip as well).
To continue why should I or anyone for that matter care if a group of individuals that they most likely will never meet disapprove of their conduct? -
@Us3rK
The problem is why should I feel good about helping someone else? Would I not feel better if I had taken that time to help my self?
Furthermore why would it matter if I helped someone else. If I wanted I could go make a new account (lets say h0tchix13223 for our purpose) and ask for help. Why would it matter then what my reputation on this forum account (Cypherrr) was? I would be for all intents are purposes a new individual (lets say I changed my ip as well).
To continue why should I or anyone for that matter care if a group of individuals that they most likely will never meet disapprove of their conduct?
Because if you don't, then the same cycle happens over and over and over again. It's just too bad that people don't think far ahead. -
@Us3rK
The problem is why should I feel good about helping someone else? Would I not feel better if I had taken that time to help my self?
Furthermore why would it matter if I helped someone else. If I wanted I could go make a new account (lets say h0tchix13223 for our purpose) and ask for help. Why would it matter then what my reputation on this forum account (Cypherrr) was? I would be for all intents are purposes a new individual (lets say I changed my ip as well).
To continue why should I or anyone for that matter care if a group of individuals that they most likely will never meet disapprove of their conduct?
because you never know, people have problems with accounts from time to time, so let's say something happens to 20 people and I have it in my power to help them all, who would I help first? someone I recognize as helpful? or someone who has helped me in the past or contributed positively somehow? Think of it as Karma. it really only matters if you plan to play the game for a long while, people will eventually remember your name and you will built a reputation, what kind is up to you. -
Because if you don't, then the same cycle happens over and over and over again. It's just too bad that people don't think far ahead.
How would it happen again and again? There seems to be more then enough people that are more then willing to help. Furthermore in this situation with its anonymity increases the draw towards simply acting helpful and one account and trolling on another. Why not? I mean that way I get the best of both words right?Deltin24018 wrote: »because you never know, people have problems with accounts from time to time, so let's say something happens to 20 people and I have it in my power to help them all, who would I help first? someone I recognize as helpful? or someone who has helped me in the past or contributed positively somehow? Think of it as Karma. it really only matters if you plan to play the game for a long while, people will eventually remember your name and you will built a reputation, what kind is up to you.
Well, I could only troll on an alternate account. Not to mention lets be honest here if I had an account problem I would use support and/or GreyCloak (depending on the issues itself). Plus would you ignore a helpless new player? One way or another I still get the same help that the "cooperative" individual did. There is nothing forcing me to cooperate and I can still access the benefits that those that do cooperate have without cooperating. -
Nice Post!
OMG that has to be the very best thread I have ever seen and had the pleasure to read in all my years of gaming.
And NO I'm not kissing his butt....The logic is undeniable.
If you didn't GET IT the first time, read it again.
Everything you said can and should be used in game, as well as here.
This is a game forum you can't change one without the other.
You can't have one without the other.
The game prob.'s as you put it, are not mechanical, the game is not at fault nor is the hack system within it.
It's us, our choice's make the game what it is.
Everything we say AND do reflex how healthy the community can become. -
How would it happen again and again? There seems to be more then enough people that are more then willing to help. Furthermore in this situation with its anonymity increases the draw towards simply acting helpful and one account and trolling on another. Why not? I mean that way I get the best of both words right?
A cycle of no improvement. -
A cycle of no improvement.
Would not others such as your self make improvements? Therefore I would gain the benefits of those improvements. Your argument if I understand it correctly is essentially that there are benefits that we cannot obtain alone. In other words that through cooperation we can accomplish things that we cannot do so individually.
However my response is that I would pretend to cooperate but in reality do as I please. Therefore I would benefit from the cooperation that would occur. There would be improvement simply the overall group improvement would not occur as quickly as if I had worked with them. However individually I would improve faster then if I had simply gone off on my own or if I had truly cooperated. Sure maybe at some point it could create a dangerous situation but lets face it there are tons of people that play CF. I am sure I could rally a few of them to join the "forum community". Not to mention by the time that occurs I will probably be to busy with other things anyways! Sure I could see how it has the potential to lead to a very poor situation for others. But I fail to see how it would effect me in a negative manner.
By the way there are issues with this game, anyone that thinks otherwise is ignorant of the facts. -
.............Would not others such as your self make improvements? Therefore I would gain the benefits of those improvements. Your argument if I understand it correctly is essentially that there are benefits that we cannot obtain alone. In other words that through cooperation we can accomplish things that we cannot do so individually.
However my response is that I would pretend to cooperate but in reality do as I please. Therefore I would benefit from the cooperation that would occur. There would be improvement simply the overall group improvement would not occur as quickly as if I had worked with them. However individually I would improve faster then if I had simply gone off on my own or if I had truly cooperated.
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
I'm sorry but you sound very selfish.
Do you run your life by this way of thinking?
I couldn't do it.
Live my life or anything fer that matter, and make it all about me.
You gotta love and honor something or nothing mean's anything.
Just my thought's.
Not trying to troll at you Cypherrrr lol -
@ruinit
No, I doubt I would ever live that way. Still if one relates it back to the topic they can potential understand something that may be of use.
By the way I believe there is already a rule that would allow the enforcement of manners on the forums if one wishes to do so. -
Would not others such as your self make improvements? Therefore I would gain the benefits of those improvements. Your argument if I understand it correctly is essentially that there are benefits that we cannot obtain alone. In other words that through cooperation we can accomplish things that we cannot do so individually.
However my response is that I would pretend to cooperate but in reality do as I please. Therefore I would benefit from the cooperation that would occur. There would be improvement simply the overall group improvement would not occur as quickly as if I had worked with them. However individually I would improve faster then if I had simply gone off on my own or if I had truly cooperated. Sure maybe at some point it could create a dangerous situation but lets face it there are tons of people that play CF. I am sure I could rally a few of them to join the "forum community". Not to mention by the time that occurs I will probably be to busy with other things anyways! Sure I could see how it has the potential to lead to a very poor situation for others. But I fail to see how it would effect me in a negative manner.
By the way there are issues with this game, anyone that thinks otherwise is ignorant of the facts.
My argument is that a positive influence is countered by a negative one.
As well as the story of the fountain of milk. If you aren't familiar I will explain.
There's a village. The Mayor of the village decides, in order to increase tourism, to create a fountain of milk in the middle of the city. So he organized builders, and in 6 months a HUGE fountain was made int he middle of the city. The Mayor then asked every household in the town to bring in one cup of milk. Such a small amount would not hurt any family, and the end result would be the same.
One family had a good idea. If they brought a cup of water, who would notice among the thousands of other cups of milk?
And so all the households came, and poured their cups into the fountain. When it came time for the unveiling, the Mayor walked up to the podium, gave a short speech, and turned on the fountain.
And water came out.
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![[Andre]](https://z8games.akamaized.net/cfna/forum/customavatars/93/navatar_3936893.gif){kind=avatar}
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