Hackers list (Guilty list)
Comments
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I believe it was mentioned that it was against their privacy policies to release a list of names of hackers who are banned.
If that's the case, what about CF BR?
This list might seem insignificant, but with the population of CF NA it could be useful and rather more embarrassing :P Especially if it is based on a minimum rank requirement list. -
We had such a list in the past and CF Brazil has it Wall of shame. So privacy is not an issue as no details are given other than Day banned and IGN. Don't we a have access to view IGNs, date account made, honor or not. Having a list make no difference to privacy, it only motivates us to report more.
On top of that a list no longer requires admins to add feedback to reports as players just needs to keep an eye on the Wall of shame to see if that player reported has been banned or not. Of course Wall of shame will not work without the report system speed changing. Pointless having a Wall of shame if reports takes few months or year to view then update Wall of shame. Also since when do we care about the privacy of illegal users. -
We are not CF BR.If that's the case, what about CF BR?
Also, if we started some sort of list like that people would be hacking on alts just to get on it and laugh about it with their friends. This would not solve anything, and you simply do not need to know the names of people banned for hacking. If it was someone you know, you won't see them in game anymore. If it wasn't, then it doesn't really matter anyway. -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »We are not CF BR.
Also, if we started some sort of list like that people would be hacking on alts just to get on it and laugh about it with their friends. This would not solve anything, and you simply do not need to know the names of people banned for hacking. If it was someone you know, you won't see them in game anymore. If it wasn't, then it doesn't really matter anyway.
I thought Mac and IP bans were given out??
What about having a minimum rank for the players getting banned which starts from second or first lieutenant? Something that tells us our reports are having action being taken upon. -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »We are not CF BR.
Also, if we started some sort of list like that people would be hacking on alts just to get on it and laugh about it with their friends. This would not solve anything, and you simply do not need to know the names of people banned for hacking. If it was someone you know, you won't see them in game anymore. If it wasn't, then it doesn't really matter anyway.
Would make it easy for us to see if the players we reported got banned or not. We can still visit their profiles, but if they change their IGN, we cannot do that anymore. Also, I don't think people would hack more just for fun, don't you guys ban the PCs? -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »We are not CF BR.
Also, if we started some sort of list like that people would be hacking on alts just to get on it and laugh about it with their friends. This would not solve anything, and you simply do not need to know the names of people banned for hacking. If it was someone you know, you won't see them in game anymore. If it wasn't, then it doesn't really matter anyway.I thought Mac and IP bans were given out??
What about having a minimum rank for the players getting banned which starts from second or first lieutenant? Something that tells us our reports are having action being taken upon.
I'm inclined to agree with Pyrex on this issue. If the best reason you guys can come up with is that 'we don't NEED to know' and 'people would just get banned on their alts for laughs' then it really should be looked into setting up even if it's just a trial run. And like Pyrex stated...or rather asked...there are SUPPOSE to be MAC address bans given out to those who are banned for hacking as per a previous announcement (not sure about IP bans but one would assume that'd just go with the territory if MAC bans being given). Unless....you guys stopped that policy and didn't notify everyone?
I mean quite honestly...something needs to change about how hackers are handled on OUR version of CF because it's blatantly obvious that the actions being taken currently aren't enough. The fact that ranked has never really been playable unless farming it with friends is a testament to that fact. So...with that in mind there's no reason to NOT look at potential options and that includes other versions of CF which may have implemented something different and discussing their potential pro's and con's. -
It can be debated, why to be so categoric (edit:CAN). I've owned twos clans the past 7 years; to can search the nickname of a new member in this list is a great help and a great gain of time. Over to spy them randomly.
Just to put some (sad) reality in the considerations, i had more members in perm ban list of the twos clans that registered members. All busted in plain cheating session.
That's the crude reality when you want to do the thing rightly and with tolerance 0 for any form of destructive behavior.
And i'm writing this message after a report (of another VERY OBVIOUS replay). Seriously if you need some help to sort these type of replays (the one without any doubt, the only one type that i save since ages), i will be proud to help to improve the quality of the gameplay of the real players. I can pass hours as spectator in ranked mode too if it's needed to save this game that i love. We are numerous to feel powerless against the players wich have only one mission in theyr life = to destroy this game without any blowback.
If we show the muscles and determination, trust me that they will no longer be proud of anything like that but frightened. And it's the initial deal in any game between real players and those supposed to support them.
edit2 : i totally agree with you ixith, word for word. -
I thought Mac and IP bans were given out??
What about having a minimum rank for the players getting banned which starts from second or first lieutenant? Something that tells us our reports are having action being taken upon.
Mac address bans on a f2p game LOL that was a front -
search the nickname of a new member in this list is a great help and a great gain of time.
Anyone on this list would not be able to join your clan because they would be banned permanently. That being said you've all given the team some stuff to think about. Thanks for the points brought up, guys. -
It's better to discourage that ban. Remove all rank, stats, ZM bonus, hm bonus, badges, XP, GP, temp wpn, wpn buyed with GP, coupons ... returning from point 0 with a special smiley hard to rank up (red or anything but not the yellow smiley).
If the guys are able to inject third party code in the CF files, they are able to don't give a f*** about the ban they risk. -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »We are not CF BR.
Also, if we started some sort of list like that people would be hacking on alts just to get on it and laugh about it with their friends. This would not solve anything, and you simply do not need to know the names of people banned for hacking. If it was someone you know, you won't see them in game anymore. If it wasn't, then it doesn't really matter anyway.
This is not CF brazil, however we can learn from them and as CFNA Community we envy their Admin work in regards to Hacking and Wall of Shame, as it motivates them to report and surely will do the same for us. Hackers Privacy is of no concern to us, nor their main or alts. It's the job of the Admins to prevent Alts and catch them and Ban mains associated with Alts and hackers.
Here is an example of such a system which would be similar to CF Brazil or better, depending on the Developers design and implementation. Image below is illustration of such a system.
[th]Pros![/th]
[th]Cons![/th]
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Proves to Players Hacking Situtation is taken seriously!
[*]*Players can see if that player has been Banned yet!
[*]*Players dont need to wait for Feedback Reports!
[*]*Players Doubt in Report System can be assured, with Weekly and Monthly list.
[*]*Shows Players/Community how Xigncode system is doing!
[*]*Shows how Many Players banned Weekly and Monthly via Reports and Xigncode catch!
[*]****Mainly Bring more Trust in the System overal and Admin work, in regards to Report system and Xigncode!********
*Making Alts to get in the list Argument?Why do we care about this? aren't Admins surposed to follow IPs?Ban mains as well as Mac Ban etc Hardware Ban
*Privacy Arguement? Really What privacy is breached?other than IGN? as we know any way.
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Basically there is no way to stop it. Even with a list I promise it will be those people out there that would make it there goal to keep hacking on other accounts just to keep filling up the list. Some people just have no lives.
Well this is where the Real Hammer should come in. "MAC, IP, Motherboard, HDD and BIOS serial numbers ". They can be bypassed but a lot harder for newbie hackers. -
Tl;dr: a list would encourage people to report. With or without names in it. And you can also censor parts of the ign like a phone game does on their facebook, for example ign= Pureskilz and the ign.on the list would look like Pureski** , last 2 chars are censored.
... -
I've saw only the help that the list can be for clean clans; now with this pros/cons considerations i'm more aware about the positive effect in the community, camelsoldier. The effect of the "we don't accept that"-flag too.
As MCSE, let me add somes things on bans:
MAC : initially not a problem to implement and more productive that only IPs.
But without breaking the laws, you can only block routers. You can't send arp to a private adress from the net, without breaking the law. To be more clear, if the guy use a cellphone to come in UK4 server, you will ban/block the cellphone or any other intermediary network system. Not the computer of the cheater, i mean not directly the cheater. But you have (as admin) a total control on the accounts and you can do anything you want with them, because in this specific case ... you are the laws.
And it's why i'm against bans. Too many work wich involve highly skilled admins (it mean 30K to 50K per year, per employee), with extra workload for dev' in bonus of the work they allready have.
On structures like CF, the massive workload involved imply full time job(s) dedicated to that. And you can imagine that no admin on earth is able to manually treat 10K account per day, you have to develop an automated solution (like Xigncode is, in certain manner) wich will destroy the pings and the fluidity of the game because it's on the server's side. And to do that on a cluster (a fews computers act as a big one) is damn complex. You have to deal with the firewalls , the load balancing server, the front server etc ...
On commercial database or extranet you don't care about that, you don't need to have a good ping to replicate a database, send emails to intranet etc ... trust me if they set an array of "autoban" servers, we will cry on the network performances. Actually, at the minute i'm writing these words, we all experience this problematic. Servers must face a massive attack (it's worldwide) wich have nothing to have with the game itself and cheaters. And i'm the first to cry atm to play SD or TDM against zombie with 300HP lol, but i known it's temporary and will not last long.
- Game cops cost (a lot) less that skilled network admins. To the point to be free eventually if somes are interrested to do that for ZP.
- To punish a cheater in rebooting totally his account cost only one easy script that any dev' can do in only one morning. For good. I've saw in ranked TDM a lot of multi-VIP high rank players using cheats. No matter how, they have paid in a free to play game. To ban these accounts is very problematic in this case. To reboot theyr account is not problematic. They keep theyr VIP and ZP weapons. But they lost all efforts they put to destroy our gameplay : no stats, no rewards to have cheated, no sense to cheat again. When they have finished to rank up theyr "red smiley", they can change theyr ign for a fresh and clean start. They wanted to destroy the rules, they lose in knowning that it will happend a day. But they don't lose theyr money.
- Real time actions are psychologically more effiscient for a certain type of people. They are very happy to can play very long and often without any blowback. They say it clearly in the chat, and they are proud of this state. They are "the kings of the game", they own all others players, they have the power. We are the mouse of these cats. Put game cops in the equation, and you reverse the situation. They become the preys, not us with our pathetic reports they don't care about.
I must be honest, the quality of public gameplay have been increased since a fews months. But it is not the right time to stop in the middle of the path, or the blowback of cheaters will be harder. With a certain type of people, tolerance is a weakness and an invitation to be worse. Not an invitation to become better. -
MAC : initially not a problem to implement and more productive that only IPs.
But without breaking the laws, you can only block routers. You can't send arp to a private adress from the net, without breaking the law. To be more clear, if the guy use a cellphone to come in UK4 server, you will ban/block the cellphone or any other intermediary network system. Not the computer of the cheater, i mean not directly the cheater. But you have (as admin) a total control on the accounts and you can do anything you want with them, because in this specific case ... you are the laws.
And it's why i'm against bans. Too many work wich involve highly skilled admins (it mean 30K to 50K per year, per employee), with extra workload for dev' in bonus of the work they allready have.
You really don't need a "highly skilled admin" to watch replays, verify a player is cheating, and use an already developed system to ban players.
They don't get 10,000 tickets per day. That is a ridiculous number.On structures like CF, the massive workload involved imply full time job(s) dedicated to that. And you can imagine that no admin on earth is able to manually treat 10K account per day,
Xigncode is surely client-side, otherwise it wouldn't be able to scan for malicious programs/hacks. It would have to stay constantly connected to the server though. Also "destroy the pings and fluidity of the game" No. It won't. Xigncode doesn't constantly spam the server with requests, it will make little difference to server performance. We've used xtrap for years before it was renamed and it generally doesn't impact performance.you have to develop an automated solution (like Xigncode is, in certain manner) wich will destroy the pings and the fluidity of the game because it's on the server's side. And to do that on a cluster (a fews computers act as a big one) is damn complex. You have to deal with the firewalls , the load balancing server, the front server etc ...
It sounds like you're describing both a dev and a sysadmin.
What? Why would they need multiple "autoban" servers, when a single server can literally just run a single SQL query per user caught by xtrap? I'm sure there are other processes involved afterwards, but they don't have millions of users banned per day, so it really wouldn't affect server performance all that much.On commercial database or extranet you don't care about that, you don't need to have a good ping to replicate a database, send emails to intranet etc ... trust me if they set an array of "autoban" servers, we will cry on the network performances. Actually, at the minute i'm writing these words, we all experience this problematic. Servers must face a massive attack (it's worldwide) wich have nothing to have with the game itself and cheaters. And i'm the first to cry atm to play SD or TDM against zombie with 300HP lol, but i known it's temporary and will not last long.
No. They would have to be paid if they're doing work - in money. Doing so for ZP would make them a volunteer, and they'd have to work from the office. The GMs wouldn't allow someone to access their systems like that externally, unsupervised.- Game cops cost (a lot) less that skilled network admins. To the point to be free eventually if somes are interrested to do that for ZP.
No one is going to volunteer 9-5 in an office for ZP. You can't feed a family with ZP.
Why should they not lose their money? If they're going to cheat they should be punished. What's stopping them from continuing to cheat? They're not banned, they're just low rank. They can cheat again, and just get reset, not banned, almost no consequences.- To punish a cheater in rebooting totally his account cost only one easy script that any dev' can do in only one morning. For good. I've saw in ranked TDM a lot of multi-VIP high rank players using cheats. No matter how, they have paid in a free to play game. To ban these accounts is very problematic in this case. To reboot theyr account is not problematic. They keep theyr VIP and ZP weapons. But they lost all efforts they put to destroy our gameplay : no stats, no rewards to have cheated, no sense to cheat again. When they have finished to rank up theyr "red smiley", they can change theyr ign for a fresh and clean start. They wanted to destroy the rules, they lose in knowning that it will happend a day. But they don't lose theyr money.
They SHOULD be banned. No doubt about it.
A script that manually deletes all their items from their account would take longer and require more processing power than simply adding to a ban list, and it saves read/writes increasing the longevity of the storage drives compared to removing all weapons/items.
There are hundreds if not thousands of players online at any one time. You would need dozens of "game cops" to be in even half the rooms to catch these people. It's much easier, cheaper, and faster to have people fill out information about the hackers, timestamps and send replays for them. They can open the replay, check the times, and say yes or no. It's VERY hard to tell in-game if someone is walling if they are on the opposite team. From a replay, it's easy to see if they're following something through a wall.- Real time actions are psychologically more effiscient for a certain type of people. They are very happy to can play very long and often without any blowback. They say it clearly in the chat, and they are proud of this state. They are "the kings of the game", they own all others players, they have the power. We are the mouse of these cats. Put game cops in the equation, and you reverse the situation. They become the preys, not us with our pathetic reports they don't care about.I must be honest, the quality of public gameplay have been increased since a fews months. But it is not the right time to stop in the middle of the path, or the blowback of cheaters will be harder. With a certain type of people, tolerance is a weakness and an invitation to be worse. Not an invitation to become better.
I've seen more cheaters recently than 3 months ago. It's not getting better at the moment. Hopefully next patch there will be a ban wave.
That being said, I would like to see an amount of people banned, but not showing their names.
Edit: Sorry for the long post. Have a picture of a kitten.
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You have readed me the wrong way ... to finally say the same thing. I will try to light a little more my average english.You really don't need a "highly skilled admin" to watch replays, verify a player is cheating, and use an already developed system to ban players.
Exactly. And it's why i find any effiscient "network-based solution" too expensive, instead game cops.They don't get 10,000 tickets per day. That is a ridiculous number.
I don't talked about tickets but about the real time management of bans, servers side. 10K is a tempered number considering millions of accounts, in certain manner yes it's ridiculously low. But it was for the example.Xigncode is surely client-side, otherwise it wouldn't be able to scan for malicious programs/hacks. It would have to stay constantly connected to the server though. Also "destroy the pings and fluidity of the game" No. It won't. Xigncode doesn't constantly spam the server with requests, it will make little difference to server performance. We've used xtrap for years before it was renamed and it generally doesn't impact performance.
It sounds like you're describing both a dev and a sysadmin.
All my considerations to prove that to focus on bans is not effiscient, was thinked in the server side only. Xigncode/Xtrap don't avoid the destroyed ranked matches, we all known it since ages. Not enough reactive.What? Why would they need multiple "autoban" servers, when a single server can literally just run a single SQL query per user caught by xtrap? I'm sure there are other processes involved afterwards, but they don't have millions of users banned per day, so it really wouldn't affect server performance all that much.
I repeat, you can't count on the client side. "Time will speak" like one say, and time (years) has said all we need to known about it. I don't see the point with the SQL query lol I'm not speaking about to simply record nicknames from altered clients but about a proprietary xtrap on servers side. I don't see it so different that a debian fighting all day long against hack/SQL injections tries. And you will be surprised on how many attacks can face a very little company per day.
To detect destructive behaviors (in a game context or not) with a great success rate, you can't count on a client system wich is so often updated/altered to permit cheats.No. They would have to be paid if they're doing work - in money. Doing so for ZP would make them a volunteer, and they'd have to work from the office. The GMs wouldn't allow someone to access their systems like that externally, unsupervised.
No one is going to volunteer 9-5 in an office for ZP. You can't feed a family with ZP.
I'm more speaking about a turn over of well known 100% clean players. Not full time job. Now i understand your point and i can imagine these helpfull players as "hunters only"; they watch, catch and declare in real time one day or twos per month for ZP. After that, the GM treat the results. Less work for them, more time for replays and complicated situations (discreet/tricky hacks in competition etc ...). I can deal with discreet cheaters, like a lot i guess, i'm speaking about the cheaters wich don't care about to be discreet and that destroy the game without any effort to hide anything.Why should they not lose their money? If they're going to cheat they should be punished. What's stopping them from continuing to cheat? They're not banned, they're just low rank. They can cheat again, and just get reset, not banned, almost no consequences.
They SHOULD be banned. No doubt about it.
A script that manually deletes all their items from their account would take longer and require more processing power than simply adding to a ban list, and it saves read/writes increasing the longevity of the storage drives compared to removing all weapons/items.
I can write this script in C within twos hours if i've access to all library involved. And i'm just a sysadmin, not a dev. Don't present that like a pharaonic job, it's not.
To broke a raid5 with a very simple script loaded in memory ... one more time you push to far. We are not in 80's with token ring network lol
But i understand your radicalism about bans, the majority of players think like you. Let me to be more specific.
Why these players cheat ? Ask yourself.
To rank up more fast, to polish stats, ribbons ... anything that they think impossible to do in playing for real. In any case, it's for the glory of a fake profile (bankable or not).
If this profile risk to lost all traces of theyr cheating sessions, cheating become senseless. In other word, they play for nothing in return but a perpetual reset of theyr profile until they play clean. Eternal newbs.
Ask yourself one more time why they don't simply play in the hacked CF servers that you can find around instead ? No chance to be banned, free VIP etc ...
I known that we are very rare to think this way, instead bans i mean, but maybe a perfect world can be made with the twos sensibilites.
Now we must be honest with our experience on CF and to try to understand the financial problematic involved (Z8 side) with specific cheaters wich have invested thousands of dollars in VIP, ZP crates etc ... it's a problematic that i can understand and extrapolate.
I will have no problem to ban for life a "full free" user wich destroy the game. I will encounter difficulties with "cheaters investors" if i pay my employees with this money ...There are hundreds if not thousands of players online at any one time. You would need dozens of "game cops" to be in even half the rooms to catch these people. It's much easier, cheaper, and faster to have people fill out information about the hackers, timestamps and send replays for them. They can open the replay, check the times, and say yes or no. It's VERY hard to tell in-game if someone is walling if they are on the opposite team. From a replay, it's easy to see if they're following something through a wall.
In a perfect word, yes. But the situation is far from perfect and this report system simply don't affraid them. Game cops with power will, in real time.
You expose an "impossible situation" that we enjoyed during maybe twos years. Yes they can lol, and they have allready done it in past. Go do somes ranked matches, and say me without any shame that you can't see any cheater as a player from any side. Now imagine as "powerfull" spectator (like somes TDM or captain). We don't speak about tricky cheaters hard to spot there, but only obvious ones that are spotted by everyone on the room within the first shots.From a replay, it's easy to see if they're following something through a wall.
I'm speaking more about the numerous idiots wich are not following something through a wall, but shooting them lol We are at this point now.
I hope it's more clear now. At least a little. Good game and stay positive. -
Why don't you guys come up with the "guilty" list that many of us have been asking for a while now? Just curious why you guys are defending cheaters who went as far as to ruin game modes like ranked match.
My clan has extra on the ts3 server a hacker list of different hackers so we can get out of the way in the cw, only in Ranked Match it is hard to get the whole hackers out of the way. Yes, unfortunately, they make the game broken so I do not play often Ranked Match, But fortunately, many public players react to the hacker and kick it then also so that there is a fair play. I write a lot of hackers, I can warn you of the hacken you can also contact me on facebook. My Facebook is https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100016980963708 -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »We are not CF BR.
Also, if we started some sort of list like that people would be hacking on alts just to get on it and laugh about it with their friends. This would not solve anything, and you simply do not need to know the names of people banned for hacking. If it was someone you know, you won't see them in game anymore. If it wasn't, then it doesn't really matter anyway.
Not that this is Valve Corps. Steam or anything, but with their VAC system in place, anyone who has been proven to cheat/hack/exploit receives a permanent VAC mark on their account profile (even if it is private). This helps people in the community steer away from becoming friends or playing games with those kinds of players.
I think it'd be nice to see a mark like that on player profiles, maybe somewhere around the Honorable Soldier slot; for example: Banned icon in place of the Honorable Soldier slot. Just a suggestion. -
Commander2xx wrote: »anyone who has been proven to cheat/hack/exploit ... This helps people in the community steer away from becoming friends or playing games with those kinds of players.
Anyone proven to cheat/hack/exploit will be unable to play games with you or anyone else for that matter. -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »Anyone proven to cheat/hack/exploit will be unable to play games with you or anyone else for that matter.
That might be true if all hackers or illegal program or exploit users get Permanent Ban. However we do know there are days, weeks and even month ban and some cases not always 100% permanent. Someone who hacks and gets caught by Xigncode for say 7 days, they would change their program to a more reliable one. Those caught say first time offend via reports and say they get temp ban they would change their style to more stealth and not outright Aimbot.
Any way the list is not for us to see who has hacked to avoid them or not
as we expect them to have Permanent ban on first Hack offense. The list as I stated above in my previous post, is to show us how many hackers are banned via Admin work "Reports" and how many are banned via Xigncode on weekly basis. We players can access that data of list of actual IGN names "Ranks" etc and date banned and method i.e Admin or xigncode. We players can use this data to determine how useful the reports where and how useful the Xigncode is on catching programs and how determined the Admins are on Reports. Privacy of those banned IGN is of no concern as they are banned Permanently and should not have any protection from any of us.
Whether Temp bans are included or not on the list is of no concern to me, however Permanent banned players IGN and date and method banned is necessary to keep us motivated in reporting and to prove to us Reports are dealt with at a decent pace and Xigncode is working. -
CamelSoldier wrote: »That might be true if all hackers or illegal program or exploit users get Permanent Ban.
They do. No users caught with an illegal program will be given a temp ban. We no longer give chances like that. One and done, we don't want anyone on the game who has opened a hack tool anyway. -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »They do. No users caught with an illegal program will be given a temp ban. We no longer give chances like that. One and done, we don't want anyone on the game who has opened a hack tool anyway.
Well I am glad you have taken such steps, now next phase is Ban list as requested by the community and maybe some change with Report System would be great, speed the process and actual feedback. As I PM you before regarding Unopened Report cases from while back and still remain unopened, as reporters, we expect feedback and closure to our cases and some are over months back. This is why Ban list helps us monitor those reported players, to see if they have been banned yet. -
[GM]Kanadian wrote: »We are not CF BR.
Also, if we started some sort of list like that people would be hacking on alts just to get on it and laugh about it with their friends. This would not solve anything, and you simply do not need to know the names of people banned for hacking. If it was someone you know, you won't see them in game anymore. If it wasn't, then it doesn't really matter anyway.
What about mouse gaming scripts ?- IGN Ezio
![[GM]Kanadian](https://z8games.akamaized.net/cfna/forum/customavatars/61/navatar_22385461.gif){kind=avatar}
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