Proof that Danny was in a legal spot
Comments
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Ellustrial wrote: »The last round is what we're talking about.
Also, Tony, Aztckk was not far enough backward. All Micheal could see was his kneecap (I'll upload the replay POV for you when I'm home).
As for people asking about the spot, I am okay with him boosting. We didn't dispute over that. We dispute over him killing Logic through the billboard, and throwing a nade through it.
Coming from the master of weird boosts, your boost wasn't legal.
You are delusional, you keep saying Logic was killed through it he was not. And you say he through a nade through it.. he did not.
As for the replays EVERYONE knows CF replays are trash and never show anything accurately. Especially nades. -
I didn't see any foul play in terms of people getting killed (from the stream). However, any spot that allows you to see through something that you shouldn't be able to see through (the billboard), shouldn't be allowed. Even though he didn't shoot through it or throw a grenade through it (again from what is seen on the stream), that spot allows a way to see things through the billboard. That right there should make that spot illegal.
http://imgur.com/6jp6vwY
This spot shouldn't be allowed for this very reason.
HOWEVER, it was not illegal for this match as per the rules. I did not see any kills through the billboard, with the nade or with the rifle. There shouldn't be a DQ for this boost unless Ellustrial can provide a POV that proves the full character model wasn't visible. Without that proof, there really isn't anything to go off of from what I can see. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I didn't see any foul play in terms of people getting killed (from the stream). However, any spot that allows you to see through something that you shouldn't be able to see through (the billboard), shouldn't be allowed. Even though he didn't shoot through it or throw a grenade through it (again from what is seen on the stream), that spot allows a way to see things through the billboard. That right there should make that spot illegal.
http://imgur.com/6jp6vwY
This spot shouldn't be allowed for this very reason.
HOWEVER, it was not illegal for this match as per the rules. I did not see any kills through the billboard, with the nade or with the rifle. There shouldn't be a DQ for this boost unless Ellustrial can provide a POV that proves the full character model wasn't visible. Without that proof, there really isn't anything to go off of from what I can see.
THANK YOU POLLEUS! According to Kyle as long as the player's head can be seen and shot it is legal. My videos prove that he could have been seen and shot! Thanks man!! -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I didn't see any foul play in terms of people getting killed (from the stream). However, any spot that allows you to see through something that you shouldn't be able to see through (the billboard), shouldn't be allowed. Even though he didn't shoot through it or throw a grenade through it (again from what is seen on the stream), that spot allows a way to see things through the billboard. That right there should make that spot illegal.
http://imgur.com/6jp6vwY
This spot shouldn't be allowed for this very reason.
HOWEVER, it was not illegal for this match as per the rules. I did not see any kills through the billboard, with the nade or with the rifle. There shouldn't be a DQ for this boost unless Ellustrial can provide a POV that proves the full character model wasn't visible. Without that proof, there really isn't anything to go off of from what I can see.
I totally agree with Polleus. I think this boost shouldn't cause AoN to lose that round in my opinion. They didn't kill anyone through the billboard... -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I didn't see any foul play in terms of people getting killed (from the stream). However, any spot that allows you to see through something that you shouldn't be able to see through (the billboard), shouldn't be allowed. Even though he didn't shoot through it or throw a grenade through it (again from what is seen on the stream), that spot allows a way to see things through the billboard. That right there should make that spot illegal.
http://imgur.com/6jp6vwY
This spot shouldn't be allowed for this very reason.
HOWEVER, it was not illegal for this match as per the rules. I did not see any kills through the billboard, with the nade or with the rifle. There shouldn't be a DQ for this boost unless Ellustrial can provide a POV that proves the full character model wasn't visible. Without that proof, there really isn't anything to go off of from what I can see.
I fully agree with this also, but as a side-note, a replay cannot and should not be used as "proof" that you could "only see his kneecap," because, since he was crouching, it OBVIOUSLY isn't going to show up correctly in the replay. Like, c'mon, you've been playing CF for this long x0tek, don't pretend like you don't know that crouching in replays is nothing like in-game. from watching it a few times off of the broadcast, nothing looked off to me. From what I can remember, he didn't' seem to be in an illegal spot and also didn't even hit him once while shooting and then just naded him. Just x0tek being crytek. -
I can understand Zzxq being under pressure with so much at stake and with a short time to make a decision. In all honestly, I dont think he had enough time to look over all of the details to make a decision like that. Hell it took me about 1 hour to confirm Famous wasnt using red dots when I had to review it.
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I fully agree with this also, but as a side-note, a replay cannot and should not be used as "proof" that you could "only see his kneecap," because, since he was crouching, it OBVIOUSLY isn't going to show up correctly in the replay. Like, c'mon, you've been playing CF for this long x0tek, don't pretend like you don't know that crouching in replays is nothing like in-game. from watching it a few times off of the broadcast, nothing looked off to me. From what I can remember, he didn't' seem to be in an illegal spot and also didn't even hit him once while shooting and then just naded him. Just x0tek being crytek.
Your character model position is 100% accurate via the replay when you are standing still.
Your PoV is slightly higher in replays when you scope in with an AWM.
As per request of ZZXQ, I'm uploading the explanation as to why that boost is illegal. -
Your character model position is 100% accurate via the replay when you are standing still.
Your PoV is slightly higher in replays when you scope in with an AWM.
As per request of ZZXQ, I'm uploading the explanation as to why that boost is illegal.
I'm sorry, I must of misread what I said. I thought I said the PoV is different/higher in a replay for when you are crouching.. Maybe I didn't -
As stated here: http://wca-america.com/crossfire/rules
Under 1.2.2.8. Bug / Glitch Usage:"Known exceptions: "Double-Jumping" is allowed.
"Stacking/Boosting" is allowed with up to 2/5 players.
Situations coming from the use of stated exceptions can still be in conflict with the basics of this rule and are punishable accordingly."
While yes it is kind of vague, it still gives Kyle a tough decision on whether to rule if this boost is illegal or not. Even though this boost is not specifically stated, this rule does give him the authority to make the decision and be completely within boundaries of the rules.
From the evidence that was presented so far, it appears that the invisible billboard was not used to anyone's advantage. The shots that were fired were from under the billboard and the grenade that was thrown was from the side of the billboard and not through it. From the other POV, a player in the same situation can be clearly seen by the opponent as his name lit up when the cross hair moved over him. I see no reason to disqualify the team and frankly because of the shaky evidence from replays in this particular situation, I believe it would be fair to simply let an OT round be played. BAN any boosts from the top of the door in the alley from now on. This will avoid this situation all together. Winner takes all. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »As stated here: http://wca-america.com/crossfire/rules
Under 1.2.2.8. Bug / Glitch Usage:
While yes it is kind of vague, it still gives Kyle a tough decision on whether to rule if this boost is illegal or not. Even though this boost is not specifically stated, this rule does give him the authority to make the decision and be completely within boundaries of the rules.
From the evidence that was presented so far, it appears that the invisible billboard was not used to anyone's advantage. The shots that were fired were from under the billboard and the grenade that was thrown was from the side of the billboard and not through it. From the other POV, the player was clearly seen by the opponent as his name lit up when the cross hair moved over him. I see no reason to disqualify the team and frankly because of the shaky evidence from replays in this particular situation, I believe it would be fair to simply let an OT round be played. BAN any boosts from the top of the door in the alley from now on. This will avoid this situation all together. Winner takes all.
I second this. -
This spot should not be considered legal. If you allow that you're making a statement that finding glitch spots and trying to surprise people with them is a good strategy.
Instead of encouraging skilled play and playing the maps the way they're meant to be played, you're encouraging glitching. -
This spot should not be considered legal. If you allow that you're making a statement that finding glitch spots and trying to surprise people with them is a good strategy.
Instead of encouraging skilled play and playing the maps the way they're meant to be played, you're encouraging glitching.
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[MOD]Polleus wrote: »As stated here: http://wca-america.com/crossfire/rules
Under 1.2.2.8. Bug / Glitch Usage:
While yes it is kind of vague, it still gives Kyle a tough decision on whether to rule if this boost is illegal or not. Even though this boost is not specifically stated, this rule does give him the authority to make the decision and be completely within boundaries of the rules.
From the evidence that was presented so far, it appears that the invisible billboard was not used to anyone's advantage. The shots that were fired were from under the billboard and the grenade that was thrown was from the side of the billboard and not through it. From the other POV, a player in the same situation can be clearly seen by the opponent as his name lit up when the cross hair moved over him. I see no reason to disqualify the team and frankly because of the shaky evidence from replays in this particular situation, I believe it would be fair to simply let an OT round be played. BAN any boosts from the top of the door in the alley from now on. This will avoid this situation all together. Winner takes all.
Polleus coming in big! I 3rd this though i have to agree they should completely remove this boost to avoid a situation like this one. -
This spot should not be considered legal. If you allow that you're making a statement that finding glitch spots and trying to surprise people with them is a good strategy.
Instead of encouraging skilled play and playing the maps the way they're meant to be played, you're encouraging glitching.
Boosting in itself is technically finding spots to be "clever and surprise people" wouldn't you think? I'm not making assumptions, just asking for clarification on your opinion. Does that mean you think boosting in general should not be allowed?
It's kind of a touchy subject. If there are "good" boost spots that fall under "encouraging skilled play", someone would need to go through and define what exact spots are legal. The other alternative is to simply outlaw boosting altogether and we all know how some people would think about that one haha. -
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sayGAUGESslow wrote: »This is ****ing pathetic, I don't play this game anymore but this is how you guys play competitive matches on mexico now? You're all trash and you deserve to be DQ just for going in those spots in the first place.
+1 I can't believe what I've just saw,this is the competitive Crossfire? Playing on top of the map in places where you obviously shouldnt be? And you call that a boost spot?Speak_Truth wrote: »I understand how you feel about spots such as this one, but boosts are used in other games as well. But in this case the point being made is that we did not violate the rules.
So the rules allow "boosting" on top of the map?
I get it..teams are way too "pro" to use the normal paths the game/map has and they have to keep finding places to break the map.
Yep,these are the "pros" of Crossfire. I've seen enough. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Boosting in itself is technically finding spots to be "clever and surprise people" wouldn't you think? I'm not making assumptions, just asking for clarification on your opinion. Does that mean you think boosting in general should not be allowed?
It's kind of a touchy subject. If there are "good" boost spots that fall under "encouraging skilled play", someone would need to go through and define what exact spots are legal. The other alternative is to simply outlaw boosting altogether and we all know how some people would think about that one haha.
I understand the line is thin and I will point to you the same reason the overpass boost was disallowed: players were not intended to enter that part of the map by the map creators. If that is not enough for you, consider that allowing such a boost skews the balance of the map heavily because of the information it gives.
Not only that, the boost spot has been known for years but has not been in use during scrims because of the assumption that it is not admissible in league play. If you allow it, it will be used more often and it will become a time sink for admins to pass a judgement on whether or not the players went so far as to peek through the billboard or shoot through it etc.
Even though referring to the decision by the dreamhack admins during the overpass situation without explaining their reasoning is making use of a logical fallacy , I would basically do the same thing as they did:
-Either force a remake of the rounds where the boost was in play (which is what happened in dreamhack) or force a remake of the match altogether.
-Ban the boost from future league play. I acknowledge your argument that if we do this, we would have to specify every illegal boost spot to make sure there are no more incidents; I would argue that there are very few spots such as this one and that outlawing this spot would essentially become the be-all end-all of the discussion.
TL;DR. That **** is game breaking. Restart the match and ban the spot. -
I would argue that there are very few spots such as this one and that outlawing this spot would essentially become the be-all end-all of the discussion.
TL;DR. That **** is game breaking. Restart the match and ban the spot.
Agreed. Makes sense. -
IMO the boost has never been game-breaking (if anything, it balances out a CT-sided map)
Our current boosting rules are fine. Controversy happened because they didn't clarify with an admin beforehand as to what they could do (I did, actually, and was told not to do it to that point or further). -
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correct me if im wrong * ive never played comp and dont even knwo about this spot* but i feel like from this post maybe u lost the dispute because that billbored illegal ii understand .. but azztcck played that billbored soooo tightly that it made it next to impossible for logic to stand a chance... let idk what if it was logic hugging that billbored that tight and u were the victim u cannot tell me u woodnt be upset i feel like logic or any player in the world woood not have stood a chance in logics shoes unless logic preaimed/scoped it waitnig for someone to play there idk man thats my opion bec i feel like yesss u were behind it but i can see how azztcck perfectly played that billbored ... and tbh the fact that u can seee threw that billbored should make that entire area illegal cause u can call gr spots by looking threw it and not even be behind it.. i feel like next time do not put so much faith into something u see threw that GR cannot see threw ... im 100% sure if that billbored was see threw for both teams u woodnt have been dq'D idk thats my uneducated opinion
![[MOD]Polleus](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/7/navatar_8918107.gif){kind=avatar}
love you Kyle 
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