WCG China Nationals

Peter_North

excepional wrote: »

Like doop said, HT with wcg guns will still beat any team using zp guns

So in your head, everyone using an M4, AK, or awm is more fun than playing with guns like xm8 and m4-silver? Those zp guns are not unfair at all, the only advantage to them is the silencer and 5 bullets. The regular version of the m4 has more accuracy, damage, and I believe tighter spray pattern, so you really can't complain about the zp counterparts at all.

no they wouldn't, they struggled with HRG. i don't think you know the amount of change ZP guns and items have on an outcome.

like i said 3 times, 1 gun cap limit.

and your facts about the m4 vs m4silver are wrong.

acgSNITCH

Peter_North wrote: »

they struggled with HRG. i don't think you know the amount of change ZP guns and items have on an outcome.

What about in the qualifiers?

TruthHurtsU

peter_north wrote: »

play better? No, that's just.. No. That's like if they gave an nhl team golf clubs instead of hockey sticks, "too bad guys, play better"

^ ^

[Denxi]

Peter_North wrote: »

play better? no, that's just.. no. that's like if they gave an NHL team golf clubs instead of hockey sticks, "too bad guys, play better"

Not a good analogy. If you understood the basic physics of how hockey works, you'd know that golf clubs would be completely useless. Are you saying that if you have an M4, and they have an M4 silenced, your gun is completely useless?

Your example needs to EXPAND upon the current standard in order to give an advantage, not take away from it. Try something that relates to the J-Curve.

throneofGod

I agree with peter but we're talking about doop's cup/china rule-set so who cares. If you want to play then play, if not then no big deal.

D1G1TAL

Peter_North wrote: »

my logic is fairness

the bullet capacity is the difference. and the silencer. g36k has recoil and lower dmg. it should not be compared to the xm8.

no it doesn't make it interesting. it makes it unfair. there's more than enough variety with the GP guns. like i said, use a 1 gun cap if you're sick of m4s and AK.s

so what does it matter if china came first? why did you say that?

you can use whatever guns you want in clan wars and pubs. competitive events are to find the team with the best combination of skill and teamwork. not to find the team with the most ZP with some skill and teamwork.

I used the G36 in WOGL, it was a side-variant of the M4A1 at the time.

You talk about it being 'unfair'. How is it unfair? When is there really any fairness in any competitive section of a game. There is always one thing stronger than the other, which brings in how you think and how you use the weapon.

This has nothing to do with how much ZP someone has. The regular M4A1 can easily out beat any ZP gun if used properly, compared to a weapon such as the M4A1-Patriot. I've used it, and is easily matched with the M4A1 or lower.

We can also compare the M4A1 to the M4A1-Advanced. It's generally the same, except a silencer. It's an option of the gun, but an M4 can easily over power it, once again if you can use it properly and not spray/wiff.

Your logic is not "fairness?". Your 'logic' appears to be going around of how much people have ZP or not but leaving out the fact any good player can easily out match someone with ZP Items. Take the old WOGL days for instance, some people used XM8's and M4-Advanced's.. but yet the ones with the regular M4 and AK's still easily killed and helped their team out.

If you cannot afford ZP, then that's not a problem in the end. Learn your gun and figure it out.

Peter_North

Denxi wrote: »

Not a good analogy. If you understood the basic physics of how hockey works, you'd know that golf clubs would be completely useless. Are you saying that if you have an M4, and they have an M4 silenced, your gun is completely useless?

Your example needs to EXPAND upon the current standard in order to give an advantage, not take away from it. Try something that relates to the J-Curve.

?


if you read what i was quoting and didn't try to be a debate hero and jump the gun, you'd see i was referring to armour vs no armour.

Peter_North

WCGTGK wrote: »

The regular M4A1 can easily out beat any ZP gun if used properly, compared to a weapon such as the M4A1-Patriot.

yeah well, m700 can beat m12s if used properly. but there's still a gun that's blatantly better.

naw meen?

[Denxi]

Peter_North wrote: »

?


if you read what i was quoting and didn't try to be a debate hero and jump the gun, you'd see i was referring to armour vs no armour.

My mistake, I thought you were applying the analogy to your entire argument. However my point still stands. Your analogy is WAY too different in magnitude to really get across your idea. There is no game changing technique that armor lets you perform that no armor doesn't, it just gives you that extra edge.

In hockey, if you're reduced to using a gold club, you literally can't slap shot, wrist shot, or flick shot. It's not just a small disadvantage, it's a completely debilitating thing.

(Also not being a "debate hero." I've had this argument so many times it's stupid, and my interest in this game is at an all time low. I'm not taking any sides, I'm just trying to help people represent their arguments better in order for them to get a better experience out of the whole thing =\)

Peter_North wrote: »

yeah well, m700 can beat m12s if used properly. but there's still a gun that's blatantly better.

naw meen?

Here's the way I've always used to represent this argument.

1 + 1 - 1 = 1

1 + 1 + 1 - 1 = 2

Guns can be better than others at specific things, but in an optimal competitive environment you should have a few guns that are balanced and promote as many different play styles as possible.

This becomes a much more effective argument when ZP is brought to the table.

Peter_North

Denxi wrote: »

Here's the way I've always used to represent this argument.

1 + 1 - 1 = 1

1 + 1 + 1 - 1 = 2

Guns can be better than others at specific things, but in an optimal competitive environment you should have a few guns that are balanced and promote as many different play styles as possible.

This becomes a much more effective argument when ZP is brought to the table.

i don't get it. what do the numbers represent?

hammer_mav

5 xm8s pls men

[Denxi]

Peter_North wrote: »

i don't get it. what do the numbers represent?

Advantages and disadvantages.

This is just a quick example, so it'll be INCREDICLY incomplete, but hopefully it'll get the idea across (The analogy itself is very simple as well, but it doesn't affect its validity. In reality the numbers would be all over the place, not just values of 1).

The AK has a more predictable spray pattern (+1), more damage (+1), harder to control in bursts (-1) = 1

The M4 has a lower burst velocity (+1), is significantly lighter (+1), but lower damage (-1) = 1

The M4-ADV has a lower burst velocity (+1), is significantly lighter (+1), has no sound above 15m and is much lower sound in general (+1), but lower damage (-1) = 2

The analogy is a simple way of pointing out that all guns have both good and bad qualities, and clarifying how you can come to a conclusion of whether a gun is balanced. Like I said before, the analogy is SUPER simplified, as not only there MANY different values, but the values change depending on the context. The analogy is just to clarify the basics of balance, as some people can get sidetracked in that regard.

1nsomniac

I would like to see expanded weapon selection in tournaments. Armor might be annoying, though you don't have to buy ZP to get armor; you can get it fairly easily from ZM.

aTastyCookie

1nsomniac wrote: »

I would like to see expanded weapon selection in tournaments. Armor might be annoying, though you don't have to buy ZP to get armor; you can get it fairly easily from ZM.

Not from annoying body AC son.

Snoopy1995

Variety is a horrible idea.

Falloutt

inb4idiot oh wait