WCG China Nationals
http://pub.pptv.com/player/iframe/index.html#w=480&h=360&id=300374
LIVE from WCG 2012 China National Final at the Shanghai Everbright Convention & Exhibition Center
WCG 2012 China National Final Live Stream is on!
WCG 2012 China National Final will be held from October 26 to 28 at the shanghai everbright convention & exhibition center
For those who cannot make it to the exciting event in the CHINA, we have prepared a live stream.
We hope you enjoy the show!!
Note: #w=480&h=360 control the resolution of the stream
For example for 720p, set #w=1280&h=720
LIVE from WCG 2012 China National Final at the Shanghai Everbright Convention & Exhibition Center
WCG 2012 China National Final Live Stream is on!
WCG 2012 China National Final will be held from October 26 to 28 at the shanghai everbright convention & exhibition center
For those who cannot make it to the exciting event in the CHINA, we have prepared a live stream.
We hope you enjoy the show!!
Note: #w=480&h=360 control the resolution of the stream
For example for 720p, set #w=1280&h=720
Comments
-
Peter_North wrote: »may the biggest ZP purchasers be the victor.
if you allowed more guns, instead of every using an m4, it'll be every one using an m4 adv. won't make it any better to watch or play.
and wogl s1 was just a box/wall spamming xm8 fest.
Actually WOGL s1 was more about the ak/k2 than anything.
To expand: If you look at the teams that ended up in the top 6 or so all of them had a few things in common.
1-2 AK Players
1 Good Awper
1-2 k2/m4adv/xm8 players
AKs and k2s are what teams used to get the big entry frags more so than the xm8 wall spam. xm8 wall spam really only became important in certain areas of certain maps (wood on sub base, mid on port, etc.)
It also forced people to have a little bit different of a play style. Playing defensively hiding behind spammable objects wasnt a very good idea just because of the possibility of getting spammed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1nch26KisE -
Actually WOGL s1 was more about the ak/k2 than anything.
To expand: If you look at the teams that ended up in the top 6 or so all of them had a few things in common.
1-2 AK Players
1 Good Awper
1-2 k2/m4adv/xm8 players
AKs and k2s are what teams used to get the big entry frags more so than the xm8 wall spam. xm8 wall spam really only became important in certain areas of certain maps (wood on sub base, mid on port, etc.)
It also forced people to have a little bit different of a play style. Playing defensively hiding behind spammable objects wasnt a very good idea just because of the possibility of getting spammed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1nch26KisE
This is 100% true. Personally, I would rather have the option to play with more variety of weapons for leagues, even WCG. Maybe not all the guns can be used but people could certainly use Silvers and maybe a couple of variants. Nothing is wrong with a 'full damage box shot' weapon, it could be used as a tactic more than an advantage.
Perhaps I'll see if I can implement more weapons in next years WCG, of course if it's picked up in 2013.This is still on? Link is not working for me.
Link was from two days ago, I doubt it will still be up. -
i didnt see any k2s in that vid. i've only counted one k2 out of all the casts they showed. (yours)Actually WOGL s1 was more about the ak/k2 than anything.
that's not what i would call wogl s1 being about k2 and ak. i only seen a couple AK's.
it's all m4 silenced and xm8s with an awm.
from the two snsd casts, definitely an xm8 spray fest on port and desert storm which had 6-8 xm8 users out of a possible 10. also in my own matches were xm8, m4, awm.
the variety under a GP only rule is better than it would be if you allowed ZP temps again.
GP only:
m4, ak, xm8, k2, awm, aug, sg, tar, qbz are the weapons you could see.
ZP temp:
m4 varients, ak varients, awm, xm8 are the only weapons you would see. -
Devious was all k2s pretty much.Peter_North wrote: »i didnt see any k2s in that vid. i've only counted one k2 out of all the casts they showed. (yours)
that's not what i would call wogl s1 being about k2 and ak. i only seen a couple AK's.
it's all m4 silenced and xm8s with an awm.
from the two snsd casts, definitely an xm8 spray fest on port and desert storm which had 6-8 xm8 users out of a possible 10. also in my own matches were xm8, m4, awm.
the variety under a GP only rule is better than it would be if you allowed ZP temps again.
GP only:
m4, ak, xm8, k2, awm, aug, sg, tar, qbz are the weapons you could see.
ZP temp:
m4 varients, ak varients, awm, xm8 are the only weapons you would see.
Consensus was aks/m4s + Gie's crazy SG
LPK used mainly regular m4s, i k2'd most of the time when i wasn't sniping
LifeLine was k2s/m4s/aks, phubez/mickeys/control all k2'd during the season
SNSD was just silly.
Personally I want leagues/events with all items allowed (including armor). Unfortunately this will probably not happen. -
phubez/mickeys/control all k2'd during the season
Personally I want leagues/events with all items allowed (including armor). Unfortunately this will probably not happen.
i don't know, but from what i seen, control and phubez was m4.
and mickeyes pulled a minty and dropped a 0 so i guess that k2 didn't work out so well.
anyway, why do you want all these ZP allowed? that's pay-to-win is unfair. skill and teamwork only goes so far. i mean it's such a blatant advantage. if this is because of the chinese videos and community/events etc, you're crazy. it will not spark a big outbreak in # of competitive players. china is just in love with fps games and shiny things. (including the asian players here in NA)
when i watch their casts, it looks ridiculous... very unprofessional. half naked chicks running around with yellow and pink guns. they all have ZP. so they could have any rules and it be fair.
if you want variety, you should talk to leagues about having a 1 gun cap limit per team.
this is actually a good idea for a couple reasons.
1) variety makes it more fun to both watch and play
2) people will strive to be the best with their chosen gun. (best tar user for ex.)
3) no such thing as imbalanced. no matter what guns you ban or don't ban, there will always be a best gun. a 1 gun cap takes away all unfairness. (even though it seems you don't like balance) -
I personally feel the game is way better with armor (both chest and helm). Armor being a ZP item it only makes sense to allow all ZP items, in my mind.Peter_North wrote: »i don't know, but from what i seen, control and phubez was m4.
and mickeyes pulled a minty and dropped a 0 so i guess that k2 didn't work out so well.
anyway, why do you want all these ZP allowed? that's pay-to-win is unfair. skill and teamwork only goes so far. i mean it's such a blatant advantage. if this is because of the chinese videos and community/events etc, you're crazy. it will not spark a big outbreak in # of competitive players. china is just in love with fps games and shiny things. (including the asian players here in NA)
when i watch their casts, it looks ridiculous... very unprofessional. half naked chicks running around with yellow and pink guns. they all have ZP. so they could have any rules and it be fair.
if you want variety, you should talk to leagues about having a 1 gun cap limit per team.
this is actually a good idea for a couple reasons.
1) variety makes it more fun to both watch and play
2) people will strive to be the best with their chosen gun. (best tar user for ex.)
3) no such thing as imbalanced. no matter what guns you ban or don't ban, there will always be a best gun. a 1 gun cap takes away all unfairness. (even though it seems you don't like balance)
I also personally enjoy using my m4 tiger and i really like the SG camo.
It has nothing to do with chinese videos are anything like that. I enjoy the ZP items so I would like to see more of them. I never understood why we craft rulesets to limit certain guns. It's always done under the guise of preparing teams for WCG/WEM and so on, after the qualifier/event is over teams go back to using whatever they want.
If you scrim any of the top teams on a regular basis you will notice that just about everyone is using some banned or restricted item. If people are already scriming with them, why not just allow them in matches? -
-
excepional wrote: »imo it'd be better for the teams and more fun being able to use more guns than what are allowed now. The only thing I'd suggest if we do have them is a limit of 2 per team so a team can't use 5 xm8's on port and get tons of frags through mid.
With armor spamming and nades don't become that big of a deal. -
yeah sg camo is pretty cool
but what about the people who can't afford this stuff. some people live out on their own and have bills to pay. scamming surveys don't work a lot of the time even if you can avoid all the mail spam, downloading malicious software, are in the good offers country, being able to quickly fill out forms.
so if people can't get ZP, could they really win a tournament/league against armour/spop/fall reduction/m4 customs? i say no way. the matches in the finals are pretty much always close. ZP is a huge swing in advantage. -
If we (LPK) were to play a bo3 match vs hammer time using whatever guns/items we want and HT only used default characters and WCG Package guns I am pretty sure HT would win the best of 3.Peter_North wrote: »yeah sg camo is pretty cool
but what about the people who can't afford this stuff. some people live out on their own and have bills to pay. scamming surveys don't work a lot of the time even if you can avoid all the mail spam, downloading malicious software, are in the good offers country, being able to quickly fill out forms.
so if people can't get ZP, could they really win a tournament/league against armour/spop/fall reduction/m4 customs? i say no way. the matches in the finals are pretty much always close. ZP is a huge swing in advantage.
My point will be proven this cup. Most of HT plans on using the WCG Packages to prepare for China. I am pretty sure they will beat teams who use the variety of weapons that I allowed that are normally banned.
Yes I realize that not everyone can afford to get enough ZP to get all the items they would like to have. To that there isn't much I can say. If you can't afford it, can't do the surveys, and can't get other people to buy it for you; you won't be able to use it.
As for teams winning because of a ZP advantage. Highly doubtful in my mind. When we scrim people and lose it isn't because they have a special grenade or are using an ak-camo or xmas-awm. We lose because of fundamental flaws in our tactics and not being mechanically far superior players than people we are playing. -
My point will be proven this cup. Most of HT plans on using the WCG Packages to prepare for China. I am pretty sure they will beat teams who use the variety of weapons that I allowed that are normally banned.
One question, why aren't you allowing guns with wall bang like xm8? -
Baby steps my friend, baby steps.excepional wrote: »One question, why aren't you allowing guns with wall bang like xm8?
That kind of radical change is what gets people up in arms and spam me with xfires. I don't feel like being berated at the moment. -
My point will be proven this cup. Most of HT plans on using the WCG Packages to prepare for China. I am pretty sure they will beat teams who use the variety of weapons that I allowed that are normally banned.
armour is a bigger adv than gun varients. and armour isn't allowed so may not prove much.
look at the match between hammertime and hrg. match goes into overtime and is up for grabs. if one of those teams had armour, there would be 5 rounds between them with a decisive winner. or even +5 bullets would be enough to not have the match go in OT.
how many times has a match gone into OT?
how many people got caught and killed when reloading or weapon switching because of reloading?
how many times have players died after they were safely behind the wall where they would of been alive with armour?
how many firefights ended up with the winner having 1-15hp?
little things make big changes.
i like fancy weapons as much as any one. but a competitive event is not the place for them. -
Peter_North wrote: »armour is a bigger adv than gun varients. and armour isn't allowed so may not prove much.
look at the match between hammertime and hrg. match goes into overtime and is up for grabs. if one of those teams had armour, there would be 5 rounds between them with a decisive winner. or even +5 bullets would be enough to not have the match go in OT.
how many times has a match gone into OT?
how many people got caught and killed when reloading or weapon switching because of reloading?
how many times have players died after they were safely behind the wall where they would of been alive with armour?
how many firefights ended up with the winner having 1-15hp?
little things make big changes.
i like fancy weapons as much as any one. but a competitive event is not the place for them.
I don't see the logic you are posting.
All guns are different, even the default ones used now frequently. AK 47 and M4A1 are two completely different guns, different damages and so forth.
If the M4A1 does the same damage as an M4 Silver, or an M4 Tiger - what is the different? Same thing with an AK 47, if it does the same damage as a G36 or XM8 - why would it be such a difference, because of it being a different gun?
All guns and aspects of the game are different. Putting people on different levels of resources (weapons, equipment, etc.) makes things more interesting; when we were allowed to use a variety of weapons in WOGL, it was fun and interesting.. unlike now where it's boring and obvious with two most used guns and an occasional AWM.
No one can say 'it's not good for a competitive event'. CrossFire Competitive was in China before us, and their rules was taken into consideration in the first place before WOGL changed them a bit. Then WEM came and everyone though THOSE guns were the only ones to use in CF NA and it has become the default and practical weapons of the competitive scene.
Is it fair? No.
Why? It doesn't let anyone experience more of the game. It creates more suspense and interest in the end.
If you cannot afford a ZP Gun, so what? The M4A1 is a side-variant of a lot of guns in damage and damage range. All guns vary from box shot damage, but that what makes the gun unique and it also creates more strategy and more 'smart' gameplay. -
Peter_North wrote: »may the biggest ZP purchasers be the victor.
if you allowed more guns, instead of every using an m4, it'll be every one using an m4 adv. won't make it any better to watch or play.
and wogl s1 was just a box/wall spamming xm8 fest.Actually WOGL s1 was more about the ak/k2 than anything.
To expand: If you look at the teams that ended up in the top 6 or so all of them had a few things in common.
1-2 AK Players
1 Good Awper
1-2 k2/m4adv/xm8 players
AKs and k2s are what teams used to get the big entry frags more so than the xm8 wall spam. xm8 wall spam really only became important in certain areas of certain maps (wood on sub base, mid on port, etc.)
It also forced people to have a little bit different of a play style. Playing defensively hiding behind spammable objects wasnt a very good idea just because of the possibility of getting spammed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1nch26KisEPeter_North wrote: »i didnt see any k2s in that vid. i've only counted one k2 out of all the casts they showed. (yours)
that's not what i would call wogl s1 being about k2 and ak. i only seen a couple AK's.
it's all m4 silenced and xm8s with an awm.
from the two snsd casts, definitely an xm8 spray fest on port and desert storm which had 6-8 xm8 users out of a possible 10. also in my own matches were xm8, m4, awm.
the variety under a GP only rule is better than it would be if you allowed ZP temps again.
GP only:
m4, ak, xm8, k2, awm, aug, sg, tar, qbz are the weapons you could see.
ZP temp:
m4 varients, ak varients, awm, xm8 are the only weapons you would see.Devious was all k2s pretty much.
Consensus was aks/m4s + Gie's crazy SG
LPK used mainly regular m4s, i k2'd most of the time when i wasn't sniping
LifeLine was k2s/m4s/aks, phubez/mickeys/control all k2'd during the season
SNSD was just silly.
Personally I want leagues/events with all items allowed (including armor). Unfortunately this will probably not happen.Peter_North wrote: »i don't know, but from what i seen, control and phubez was m4.
and mickeyes pulled a minty and dropped a 0 so i guess that k2 didn't work out so well.
anyway, why do you want all these ZP allowed? that's pay-to-win is unfair. skill and teamwork only goes so far. i mean it's such a blatant advantage. if this is because of the chinese videos and community/events etc, you're crazy. it will not spark a big outbreak in # of competitive players. china is just in love with fps games and shiny things. (including the asian players here in NA)
when i watch their casts, it looks ridiculous... very unprofessional. half naked chicks running around with yellow and pink guns. they all have ZP. so they could have any rules and it be fair.
if you want variety, you should talk to leagues about having a 1 gun cap limit per team.
this is actually a good idea for a couple reasons.
1) variety makes it more fun to both watch and play
2) people will strive to be the best with their chosen gun. (best tar user for ex.)
3) no such thing as imbalanced. no matter what guns you ban or don't ban, there will always be a best gun. a 1 gun cap takes away all unfairness. (even though it seems you don't like balance)I personally feel the game is way better with armor (both chest and helm). Armor being a ZP item it only makes sense to allow all ZP items, in my mind.
I also personally enjoy using my m4 tiger and i really like the SG camo.
It has nothing to do with chinese videos are anything like that. I enjoy the ZP items so I would like to see more of them. I never understood why we craft rulesets to limit certain guns. It's always done under the guise of preparing teams for WCG/WEM and so on, after the qualifier/event is over teams go back to using whatever they want.
If you scrim any of the top teams on a regular basis you will notice that just about everyone is using some banned or restricted item. If people are already scriming with them, why not just allow them in matches?Peter_North wrote: »yeah sg camo is pretty cool
but what about the people who can't afford this stuff. some people live out on their own and have bills to pay. scamming surveys don't work a lot of the time even if you can avoid all the mail spam, downloading malicious software, are in the good offers country, being able to quickly fill out forms.
so if people can't get ZP, could they really win a tournament/league against armour/spop/fall reduction/m4 customs? i say no way. the matches in the finals are pretty much always close. ZP is a huge swing in advantage.If we (LPK) were to play a bo3 match vs hammer time using whatever guns/items we want and HT only used default characters and WCG Package guns I am pretty sure HT would win the best of 3.
My point will be proven this cup. Most of HT plans on using the WCG Packages to prepare for China. I am pretty sure they will beat teams who use the variety of weapons that I allowed that are normally banned.
Yes I realize that not everyone can afford to get enough ZP to get all the items they would like to have. To that there isn't much I can say. If you can't afford it, can't do the surveys, and can't get other people to buy it for you; you won't be able to use it.
As for teams winning because of a ZP advantage. Highly doubtful in my mind. When we scrim people and lose it isn't because they have a special grenade or are using an ak-camo or xmas-awm. We lose because of fundamental flaws in our tactics and not being mechanically far superior players than people we are playing.
The other team has armor and you don't. Solution: Play better.Peter_North wrote: »armour is a bigger adv than gun varients. and armour isn't allowed so may not prove much.
look at the match between hammertime and hrg. match goes into overtime and is up for grabs. if one of those teams had armour, there would be 5 rounds between them with a decisive winner. or even +5 bullets would be enough to not have the match go in OT.
how many times has a match gone into OT?
how many people got caught and killed when reloading or weapon switching because of reloading?
how many times have players died after they were safely behind the wall where they would of been alive with armour?
how many firefights ended up with the winner having 1-15hp?
little things make big changes.
i like fancy weapons as much as any one. but a competitive event is not the place for them.
You are just theory crafting hypothetical situations. Your original complaint was about everyone using a m4adv. HT will crush anyone who uses the m4adv in this cup.
How many times has someone died because they aren't as good a player as the person who killed them? How many times have matches gone to over time because teams play sloppy and seem to not care?
How many times have people died because of peakers advantage?
Teams already use ZP items in scrims why not allow them in matches? Are scrims not meant for practice? If everyone is "competitive" shouldn't they strictly use the items that are allowed by the league and nothing else when practicing? -
my logic is fairnessI don't see the logic you are posting.
If the M4A1 does the same damage as an M4 Silver, or an M4 Tiger - what is the different? Same thing with an AK 47, if it does the same damage as a G36 or XM8 - why would it be such a difference, because of it being a different gun?
All guns and aspects of the game are different. Putting people on different levels of resources (weapons, equipment, etc.) makes things more interesting; when we were
No one can say 'it's not good for a competitive event'. CrossFire Competitive was in China before us
It doesn't let anyone experience more of the game.
the bullet capacity is the difference. and the silencer. g36k has recoil and lower dmg. it should not be compared to the xm8.
no it doesn't make it interesting. it makes it unfair. there's more than enough variety with the GP guns. like i said, use a 1 gun cap if you're sick of m4s and AK.s
so what does it matter if china came first? why did you say that?
you can use whatever guns you want in clan wars and pubs. competitive events are to find the team with the best combination of skill and teamwork. not to find the team with the most ZP with some skill and teamwork.The other team has armor and you don't. Solution: Play better.
You are just theory crafting hypothetical situations. Your original complaint was about everyone using a m4adv. HT will crush anyone who uses the m4adv in this cup.
How many times has someone died because they aren't as good a player as the person who killed them? How many times have matches gone to over time because teams play sloppy and seem to not care?
How many times have people died because of peakers advantage?
Teams already use ZP items in scrims why not allow them in matches? Are scrims not meant for practice? If everyone is "competitive" shouldn't they strictly use the items that are allowed by the league and nothing else when practicing?
play better? no, that's just.. no. that's like if they gave an NHL team golf clubs instead of hockey sticks, "too bad guys, play better"
they are not hypothetical. they happened often and the example i used happened.
no, my original complaint was ZP. "may the biggest ZP purchaser win"
lots of people died because the other player is/was better. but that doesn't change the facts of my scenarios.
so what? it's practice/fun. not the real thing. -
Peter_North wrote: »competitive events are to find the team with the best combination of skill and teamwork. not to find the team with the most ZP with some skill and teamwork.
Like doop said, HT with wcg guns will still beat any team using zp guns. Guns like the xm8, if used in leagues, will do nothing negative to the gameplay: it will only encourage the teams to not play dumb and hide behind boxes every round while trying to hold a site.
So in your head, everyone using an M4, AK, or awm is more fun than playing with guns like xm8 and m4-silver? Those zp guns are not unfair at all, the only advantage to them is the silencer and 5 bullets. The regular version of the m4 has more accuracy, damage, and I believe tighter spray pattern, so you really can't complain about the zp counterparts at all. -
The other team has armor and you don't. Solution: Play better.
You are just theory crafting hypothetical situations. Your original complaint was about everyone using a m4adv. HT will crush anyone who uses the m4adv in this cup.
EVERYBODY WHO'S ARGUING WITH DOOP, THIS IS WHY YOU WON'T WIN.
Doop is arguing specific practicality. It doesn't matter that logically, in a situation where you have two teams on the same or close level, the team with ZP items will have an advantage, because his entire argument is based around applying the ruleset to the current reality.
You have to argue why THAT is flawed before you can hope to win the original argument.
![[Denxi]](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/0/navatar_2018000.gif){kind=avatar}
Categories
- All Categories
- Z8Games
- 1 Z8 Forum Discussion & Suggestions
- 15 Z8Games Announcements
- Rules & Conduct
- 2.6K CrossFire
- 746 CrossFire Announcements
- 745 Previous Announcements
- 2 Previous Patch Notes
- 333 Community
- 13 Modes
- 401 Suggestions
- 16 Clan Discussion and Recruitment
- 89 CF Competitive Forum
- 1 CFCL
- 17 Looking for a Team?
- 536 CrossFire Support
- 10 Suggestion
- 16 CrossFire Guides
- 38 CrossFire Off Topic