MK23 SCOOM or D.EAGLE
Comments
-
Go with the Deagle. The MK23 socom max damage is 36 at point blank when the Deagle's is 61.
The Socom's recoil is also the same as a Deagle, in order to match the Deagles DPS you need to shoot it at 7-8 bullets a second, but at that rate it becomes very inaccurate. -
Mk23 heres why,
de is 3 hit most of the time, and sometimes 2 hit, dont shoot THAT fast.
Mk23 is a 3 hit guranteed and shoots faster, so by the time you shoot off 1 1/2 of a De you already got 3 shots out of a Mk23
this is tru..i like to use both even though i keep my de gold and m4 gold paired i like to use the socom..i have no problem getting a headshot off easily..so if your aim is good or if you practice with it then socom is awesome for headshots not just the luck fire with the de like most do..happy gaming and good luck -
Mk23 heres why,
de is 3 hit most of the time, and sometimes 2 hit, dont shoot THAT fast.
Mk23 is a 3 hit guranteed and shoots faster, so by the time you shoot off 1 1/2 of a De you already got 3 shots out of a Mk23Only downside to the mk23 is its MASSIVELY low recoil, So used to high recoil...
At 5 meters,
Socom does 37-38 damage.
Deagle does 61 damage.
At 15 Meters,
Socom does 34 damage.
Deagle does 54-55 damage.
At 30 meters,
Socom does 30 damage.
Deagle does 44 damage.
Damage per bullet, Deagle wins.
RPS,
Socom can fire at 8 rounds per second max.
Deagle can fire at 4 rounds per second max.
Socom wins.
Recoil,
From what I can tell, they have the same recoil per bullet.
Tie.
Ammo,
Socom 13/39
Deagle 7/35.
Socom wins.
The Deagle is nearly always a 2-3 hit kill at most ranges. Socom is a 3-4 hit kill.
The Socom needs to be fired at least at 6 rounds per second before it matches the Deagles DPS. But at that rate or higher the recoil will make its shots spread to far for anything but close quarter combat, at long ranges you need to fire slower to keep accuracy. But at slower rates the Deagle beats it.
If the Socom had less recoil it would be better then Deagle.
The deagle stops being a 2 hit kill at around 24 meters, the Socom stops being a 3 hit kill at around 20 meters. To give a idea of the range, 30 meters is about the bottom of the ramp in GR spawn in Lab to the entrance of B site from GR spawn.
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=158494
Godsgunman's guide list the damage to the body parts at different ranges, the fire rate or RPS, and the ammo. I helped with data collection for the guide.
And for the recoil, I own both and have been using them. The Socoms recoil kills it. -
RPS,
Socom can fire at 8 rounds per second max.
Deagle can fire at 4 rounds per second max.
Socom wins.
Recoil,
From what I can tell, they have the same recoil per bullet.
Tie.
This information isn't exactly true. The socom fires as fast as you can click, similar to the Colt. 4 Deagle shots aren't quite that fast and the socom easily can shoot faster than twice the rounds of a deagle if the player has good trigger fingers.
The recoil comparably is alot lower on the socom as well especially with its successive fire. The deagle appears to have low recoil due to the wait in between shots. However even with its rapid fire, the socom doesn't change much in its area of fire.
Also people forget the socom is quite notably lighter than the deagle as well giving better maneuverability, even if small. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »This information isn't exactly true. The socom fires as fast as you can click, similar to the Colt. 4 Deagle shots aren't quite that fast and the socom easily can shoot faster than twice the rounds of a deagle if the player has good trigger fingers.
The recoil comparably is alot lower on the socom as well especially with its successive fire. The deagle appears to have low recoil due to the wait in between shots. However even with its rapid fire, the socom doesn't change much in its area of fire.
Also people forget the socom is quite notably lighter than the deagle as well giving better maneuverability, even if small.
The deagle fires at 4.7 RPS (give or take 0.2 RPS), whereas the socom fires at a maximum of 8 rounds per second. Getting more than 8 rounds in a second is unrealistic in game situations, so don't even say it can shoot faster then that.
VATAV don't round off the numbers, you rounded off wrong anyways lol, 4.7 does not round off to 4.0 :P -
BowDownToMe wrote: »The deagle fires at 4.7 RPS (give or take 0.2 RPS), whereas the socom fires at a maximum of 8 rounds per second. Getting more than 8 rounds in a second is unrealistic in game situations, so don't even say it can shoot faster then that.
VATAV don't round off the numbers, you rounded off wrong anyways lol, 4.7 does not round off to 4.0 :P
And how do you know its the maximum? Frame rate also affects how fast you are able to fire. Also controls, rig setup, there's tons of other factors in the situations. Your firing factor could be different than others.
A person firing ridiculously fast is no more unrealistic in game situations than people able to kill people with pixels smaller than the tip of a pencil without a scope.
Just saying, although you've done extensive tests for damage and range, ROF and such is variable on more than just game mechanics. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »And how do you know its the maximum? Frame rate also affects how fast you are able to fire. Also controls, rig setup, there's tons of other factors in the situations. Your firing factor could be different than others.
A person firing ridiculously fast is no more unrealistic in game situations than people able to kill people with pixels smaller than the tip of a pencil without a scope.
Just saying, although you've done extensive tests for damage and range, ROF and such is variable on more than just game mechanics.
The game caps at 200 FPS which is what I have, and I also have 32 ping.
Try clicking on a mouse more than 8 times in a second, I bet you can't do it. That's my point. Nothing else really matters. -
BowDownToMe wrote: »The game caps at 200 FPS which is what I have, and I also have 32 ping.
Try clicking on a mouse more than 8 times in a second, I bet you can't do it. That's my point. Nothing else really matters.
I may very well try and do so. However, just because I may not be able to, or you, does not mean someone else may not be able to do better. Since the eye can only detect 60 frames, and anything higher is usually unnoticed, chances are your hands are not nearly as fast. Especially since the eye is extremely fast at reading.
Ping is only used for weapon switches and regging shots. You can empty a whole clip the same at 200 ping as you do at 36 as long as you have the same frame rate since CF doesn't work like other multiplayer games. So don't see how ping ever came into effect. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »I may very well try and do so. However, just because I may not be able to, or you, does not mean someone else may not be able to do better. Since the eye can only detect 60 frames, and anything higher is usually unnoticed, chances are your hands are not nearly as fast. Especially since the eye is extremely fast at reading.
Ping is only used for weapon switches and regging shots. You can empty a whole clip the same at 200 ping as you do at 36 as long as you have the same frame rate since CF doesn't work like other multiplayer games. So don't see how ping ever came into effect.
Unless you can show me a video or some proof of someone shooting a socom faster than 8 times per second then you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Be reasonable, nobody can shoot that fast while still aiming properly. The only way is with a moded mouse.
I added ping incase you came up with some bs about it could have something to do with ping. -
BowDownToMe wrote: »Unless you can show me a video or some proof of someone shooting a socom faster than 8 times per second then you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Be reasonable, nobody can shoot that fast while still aiming properly. The only way is with a moded mouse.
I added ping incase you came up with some bs about it could have something to do with ping.
If I have to have video proof, so do you, since just like me; all you have is numbers to go off of for your field testing. Of course the problem with 'video proof' is of course significant framerate drop unless crap quality is sufficient for you.
The argument here is not about how practical, its about how capable, since that's all your stats are based off of.
Modded mice as far as I know aren't against the rules, just like better sound, or video cards aren't either. You work with the tools you got provided it doesn't break any rules. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »If I have to have video proof, so do you, since just like me; all you have is numbers to go off of for your field testing. Of course the problem with 'video proof' is of course significant framerate drop unless crap quality is sufficient for you.
The argument here is not about how practical, its about how capable, since that's all your stats are based off of.
Modded mice as far as I know aren't against the rules, just like better sound, or video cards aren't either. You work with the tools you got provided it doesn't break any rules.
How do you even know that it shoots as fast as you can? Do you have proof?
I can't prove with video that it's impossible to shoot 13 bullets in half a second, but if what you're saying is true then you should be able to. -
I haven't had THAT much experience with socom, but having played CF for 3 years now and, having a DE as my first and ... Actually quite the only pistol series I used, I think I might be useful to this thread.
Mk.23 Socom is the ONLY sidearm with can oppose the DE series in this game. And by saying that, I don't mean just the regular DE. Mk.23 Socom can outperform DE-Scope and DE-Gold, and under some sircumstances, even DE-Camo.
Let's start comparing all those sidearms in different points.
a. The Damage
DE series - The damage is the same along DE-G/DE/DE-S and DE-C. I have no idea about DE-WGC/DE-X, so if someone cam complete for those two, it would be much appreciated. The DE is able to take down an ennemy with two shots in the body over short range, and with one shot in the head over to long range (Long range defined as from one side of ship to the other), making the DE an expert marksman weapon. The DE is thus the most used weapon with a sniper rifle, especially DE-Scope, wich basically can replace a primary weapon.
The Mk.23 Socom - This gun's damage is only rivaled by the DE, and certainly NOT by the anaconda, and here is why: Anaconda's damage, while being extremely powerful up close, is WILDLY cut down at longer ranges, while Mk.23's damage is scaled down only by 8 hit points, essentially having almost the same damage. If you successfuly hit an ennemy, he WILL die. The Mk.23 is also capable of taking down ennemies in one shot to the head over to medium distances (Medium distance defined as from the middle of ship to it's outer base wall), something that only Anaconda and DE were able to do so far.
b. The ROF
The rate of fire of the socom is basically your P228 and USP rate of fire. Yes, you got me right, you can get off twice as much ammo with the MK23 while with the desert eagle. Meanining that, while the DE will damage you for one 61 hp shot point blank, the Mk.23 will damage you with two 38 hp shots in the same amount of time, point blank, even three if you're trigger happy.
c. Recoil/Accuracy
The reason for wich I placed recoil and accuracy in the same spot is that the Mk.23's recoil allows it to stay accurate even in continuous shooting, while spamming the DE will result in a horrible loss of accuracy even if it IS accurate for your first shot. I would say that the accuraccy is somewhat same on those both guns, with the Mk.23 having the edge of actually keeping this accuracy while shooting.
d. Mobility/Reloading
This is where the Mk.23 trully excells, and this is also why it is way harder to beat an DE-C user with Mk.23 than a DE-G user. The Mk.23 is lighter than the DE, allowing it to be very manoavrable, wich is essential if you bunnyhop or if you need to gap from one place to another. It is also very important for escaping, since you won't need to switch to your grenade/knife and run away completely defence-less. You can now retreat AND shoot the ennemy, if you need to. The Mk.23's reload is slightly faster than the DE's (unconfirmed though, but it does feels faster) AND it has almost twice as much ammo in a clip. The exeption being DE-S (reloading slightly faster than DE and DE-G) and DE-C/DE-X (Reloading noticeably faster than DE/DE-G), in wich case you only have the clip size and speed advantage.
e. Overall
Overall, the Mk.23 is fairly as useful as a deagle, and to me, seems to rival it. While DE is way more useful while used with a sniper rifle, using an Mk.23 with let's say an M4, is sometimes even better that using that M4 with a DE, since it allows for a faster retreat and reload of the assault rifle and a continuous and quite powerful fire (assuming you don't miss half of your shots). The Mk.23 can be used for marksmanship headshotting, althought this can be done only up to medium range and is fairly hard at longer ranges. -
This post made no sence. Just because he knows it's possible, doesn't means he can do it himself. It's a physical and a gear limit. If you have a modded mouse, or if you're fast enough, than you can do it. He just says it's possible for someone who is either able to click as fast OR someone who has a modded mouse. He never said he can do it himself.BowDownToMe wrote: »How do you even know that it shoots as fast as you can? Do you have proof?
I can't prove with video that it's impossible to shoot 13 bullets in half a second, but if what you're saying is true then you should be able to.
P.S.: Dabble Post. Who's mad? -
More than likely people have modded/gaming mouses. Because I use a standard mouse and I can usually get 2 clicks in that do nothing before I can get another round off with a D.Eagle or the Socom. I have a good trigger finger or so I've been told, even on PS3 people thought I used a modded controller because of how fast I could shoot semi-automatic weapons like pistols and semi-auto rifles.
-
a. The Damage
DE series - The DE is able to take down an ennemy with one shot in the head over to long range (Long range defined as from one side of ship to the other), making the DE an expert marksman weapon. The DE is thus the most used weapon with a sniper rifle, especially DE-Scope, wich basically can replace a primary weapon.
Don't come in here acting like you know what you're talking about, you're clueless. The Desert Eagle cannot 1 shot kill headshot after 44 meters. From one side of ship to the other(80 meters), it only does 53 damage. You're dumb.
The Mk.23 Socom - This gun's damage is only rivaled by the DE, and certainly NOT by the anaconda, and here is why: Anaconda's damage, while being extremely powerful up close, is WILDLY cut down at longer ranges, while Mk.23's damage is scaled down only by 8 hit points, essentially having almost the same damage. The Mk.23 is also capable of taking down ennemies in one shot to the head over to medium distances (Medium distance defined as from the middle of ship to it's outer base wall), something that only Anaconda and DE were able to do so far.
You are once again completely wrong, I'm not sure where you're getting all of this bulls*** from but it's not reality.
Anaconda
~~5 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 47, 47.
Foot/Leg: 32, 32.
Back/Chest: 57, 56.
Headshot: 100.
~~15 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 41, 40.
Foot/Leg: 28.
Back/Chest: 52, 48.
Headshot: 100.
~~30 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 31, 31.
Foot/Leg: 21, 21.
Back/Chest: 39, 40.
Headshot: 100.
Mk23 S.
~~5 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 30, 31.
Foot/Leg: 21, 22.
Back/Chest: 37, 38.
Headshot: 100.
~~15 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 28, 29.
Foot/Leg: 20, 20.
Back/Chest: 34, 34.
Headshot: 100.
~~30 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 25, 25.
Foot/Leg: 17, 17.
Back/Chest: 30, 30.
Headshot: 89.
If you talk about back/chest shots, the anaconda decresed by 16 and the mk.23 S. decreased by 15, not really a "WILD" decrease in damage. Moron.d. Mobility/Reloading
The Mk.23's reload is slightly faster than the DE's (unconfirmed though, but it does feels faster) AND it has almost twice as much ammo in a clip.
Wrong again.
Desert Eagle reloads in 2.5 seconds, the socom reloads in 2.9 seconds.e. Overall
The Mk.23 can be used for marksmanship headshotting, althought this can be done only up to medium range and is fairly hard at longer ranges.
The mk.23 s. can only 1 shot kill in 18 meters or less. Not what I'd call "medium to long range". Did you just make all of this up while you were posting it?This post made no sence. Just because he knows it's possible, doesn't means he can do it himself. It's a physical and a gear limit. If you have a modded mouse, or if you're fast enough, than you can do it. He just says it's possible for someone who is either able to click as fast OR someone who has a modded mouse. He never said he can do it himself.
P.S.: Dabble Post. Who's mad?
He has no proof until he can show it being shot faster than humanly possible.
His entire point is that there are people that can shoot it that fast, and my point is tehre aren't. If he can't support his thesis then I'm right because it's impossible to test every single person. He only has to find one.
If you're wondering where I got my stats, this is my weapons guide that I've spent dozens of hours making. I've also been playing since 2009 so your little comment about that really doesn't matter whatsoever. -
BowDownToMe wrote: »He has no proof until he can show it being shot faster than humanly possible.
His entire point is that there are people that can shoot it that fast, and my point is tehre aren't. If he can't support his thesis then I'm right because it's impossible to test every single person. He only has to find one.
If you're wondering where I got my stats, this is my weapons guide that I've spent dozens of hours making. I've also been playing since 2009 so your little comment about that really doesn't matter whatsoever.
1) There is no need to be insulting someone. Especially over a casual debate.
2) I'm going to inquire actually how you managed to get your figures for the socom and the deagle then in terms of ROF. Did you fire them yourself? Get others to do it? Used modded/gaming gear? Only on your machine?
Also, what many people think is inhumanly possible is quite possible for others that have trained in it especially. Not saying I am one of them, but I've seen 10 year old gamers with reflexes that would make most CFer's cry.
A simple youtube of videos of games with mad reflexes and button presses should be pretty common there.
Your current thesis is only supported by your own findings. Doesn't make it correct however. Nor do I think it is 100% accurate as CF has had numerous instances where weapons do not work the way they normally should. Just because I don't have access to elite gaming gear myself or players capable, does not make you right, since you can't disprove it either. (Might as well begin the god vs atheism debate.) I could easily throw in the fact that the mechanics of the game DO allow such since there were methods illegitimately used to achieve such options. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »1) There is no need to be insulting someone. Especially over a casual debate.
Sorry, I get angry when people misinform others for no reason.[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »2) I'm going to inquire actually how you managed to get your figures for the socom and the deagle then in terms of ROF. Did you fire them yourself? Get others to do it? Used modded/gaming gear? Only on your machine?
I fired them myself on my one good computer. I didn't use anything to boost performance, i just used both fingers (like paintballing) instead of one.[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »Also, what many people think is inhumanly possible is quite possible for others that have trained in it especially. Not saying I am one of them, but I've seen 10 year old gamers with reflexes that would make most CFer's cry.
A simple youtube of videos of games with mad reflexes and button presses should be pretty common there.
You clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say.
How do you know for a fact that the mk23. s. can shoot as fast as you can? The only way to prove it can shoot as fast as the play can is by using an auto cli/cker and setting it really fast. Get a video of that and then I will change the stats on my guide. And no it doesn't require anything extra, just download the software.
And what did you edit on my last post? -
BowDownToMe wrote: »Sorry, I get angry when people misinform others for no reason.
I fired them myself on my one good computer. I didn't use anything to boost performance, i just used both fingers (like paintballing) instead of one.
You clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say.
How do you know for a fact that the mk23. s. can shoot as fast as you can? The only way to prove it can shoot as fast as the play can is by using an auto cli/cker and setting it really fast. Get a video of that and then I will change the stats on my guide. And no it doesn't require anything extra, just download the software.
And what did you edit on my last post?
Well for future reference, its usually good to have multiple sources and gear to test with since results always vary. Science has taught us to always do this.
The MK23 can shoot as fast as I can because I haven't found and instance where it couldn't. It appears to be the same for others who use it in CF vids. (Usually from different version in the east.) Also, like the Colt, it doesn't seem to have the same forced delay as the Deagle or the Anaconda and the player's shoot faster than myself. Whether or not they used gaming gear is undetermined.
I'll see if I can dig up something more accessible, but I'll PM it to you instead depending on the content.
As for what I edited, the unnecessary language and words I noted to you. -
socom is way more accurate with less damage..but id hold off and get the de gold..i keep my de gold and m4 gold paired at all times..you just cant go wrong with em!!! happy gaming XDBowDownToMe wrote: »
Don't come in here acting like you know what you're talking about, you're clueless. The Desert Eagle cannot 1 shot kill headshot after 44 meters. From one side of ship to the other(80 meters), it only does 53 damage. You're dumb.
You are once again completely wrong, I'm not sure where you're getting all of this bulls*** from but it's not reality.
Anaconda
~~5 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 47, 47.
Foot/Leg: 32, 32.
Back/Chest: 57, 56.
Headshot: 100.
~~15 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 41, 40.
Foot/Leg: 28.
Back/Chest: 52, 48.
Headshot: 100.
~~30 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 31, 31.
Foot/Leg: 21, 21.
Back/Chest: 39, 40.
Headshot: 100.
Mk23 S.
~~5 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 30, 31.
Foot/Leg: 21, 22.
Back/Chest: 37, 38.
Headshot: 100.
~~15 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 28, 29.
Foot/Leg: 20, 20.
Back/Chest: 34, 34.
Headshot: 100.
~~30 meters~~
Hand/Arm: 25, 25.
Foot/Leg: 17, 17.
Back/Chest: 30, 30.
Headshot: 89.
If you talk about back/chest shots, the anaconda decresed by 16 and the mk.23 S. decreased by 15, not really a "WILD" decrease in damage. Moron.
Wrong again.
Desert Eagle reloads in 2.5 seconds, the socom reloads in 2.9 seconds.
The mk.23 s. can only 1 shot kill in 18 meters or less. Not what I'd call "medium to long range". Did you just make all of this up while you were posting it?
He has no proof until he can show it being shot faster than humanly possible.
His entire point is that there are people that can shoot it that fast, and my point is tehre aren't. If he can't support his thesis then I'm right because it's impossible to test every single person. He only has to find one.
If you're wondering where I got my stats, this is my weapons guide that I've spent dozens of hours making. I've also been playing since 2009 so your little comment about that really doesn't matter whatsoever.
Rule #whatever of internet: All your carefully picked arguments can and will be ignored. Also, you've tested for hours, I've tested for years. GTFO, poser. -
Rule #whatever of internet: All your carefully picked arguments can and will be ignored. Also, you've tested for hours, I've tested for years. GTFO, poser.
No, you've played for years, and so have I. Clearly only one of us has been done any testing whatsoever, and he has a stickied guide about it. -
BowDownToMe wrote: »No, you've played for years, and so have I. Clearly only one of us has been done any testing whatsoever, and he has a stickied guide about it.
Yes, all in all, ur guide is GOOD. I know ur taking pride in you work, but i've been noticing one thing. Ur judgement is based strictly on Facts and Numbers. You forgot about peoples personal opinion. Maybe according to someone, the recoil is perfect for them, making it seem to them as low recoil. That technically doesnt make them wrong, as a opinion can never be wrong. JS
-
x_BlackJack wrote: »Yes, all in all, ur guide is GOOD. I know ur taking pride in you work, but i've been noticing one thing. Ur judgement is based strictly on Facts and Numbers. You forgot about peoples personal opinion. Maybe according to someone, the recoil is perfect for them, making it seem to them as low recoil. That technically doesnt make them wrong, as a opinion can never be wrong. JS
please find somewhere that I've said a gun is good based off of it's recoil?
I never impose my opinion about recoils onto others because recoil is a preferance, not a fact (and it's hard to find facts about recoil because it's somewhat random).
The only thing I stand by are the numbers that I've tested out. Which is why I know that I'm right and everybody that argues with me is wrong. There are cases that I retest a weapon because someone told me it was wrong, and so far in every case I was the one that was right.
![]Kevin](https://z8games.akamaized.net/cfna/forum/customavatars/44/navatar_7763944.jpg){kind=avatar}
Categories
- All Categories
- Z8Games
- 1 Z8 Forum Discussion & Suggestions
- 15 Z8Games Announcements
- Rules & Conduct
- 2.5K CrossFire
- 709 CrossFire Announcements
- 712 Previous Announcements
- 2 Previous Patch Notes
- 319 Community
- 12 Modes
- 392 Suggestions
- 16 Clan Discussion and Recruitment
- 73 CF Competitive Forum
- 1 CFCL
- 16 Looking for a Team?
- 522 CrossFire Support
- 7 Suggestion
- 15 CrossFire Guides
- 35 CrossFire Off Topic