Abortion?
Comments
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which moral law dictates that you should ruin your life with an unexpected pregnancy?
And what LAW states that your being violated should then encourage you to finalise the deed by extinguishing the life created?
Thus making yourself a larger perpetrater of the crime? -
DUKEofYORK wrote: »Twas never about a GOD being here to tell us the rule. It is about the availabilty of choice with the End being the best result. In the 21st Century you can fail in your judgement and still be vindicated by the LAW! Or if you have had the unfairness of abuse you can eradicate the result with the Truth of LAW!
The arguement is this, which LAW do we accept. And where does this LAW stand.
My arguement is that this is moral LAW and the Arguement returns to the "Spark" of Life and whence does Life be Life?
you realize when you say spark of life you mean EVERY single living being, including every single little bacteria and insect you kill everyday
the point here is not when does something become alive, but when does a bunch of cells become a human being, cells are alive, and an embryo is alive, but it is not a human life being killed, killing an embryo would be the same as killing an amebawhich moral law dictates that you should ruin your life with an unexpected pregnancy?
exactly -
you realize when you say spark of life you mean EVERY single living being, including every single little bacteria and insect you kill everyday
the point here is not when does something become alive, but when does a bunch of cells become a human being, cells are alive, and an embryo is alive, but it is not a human life being killed, killing an embryo would be the same as killing an ameba
exactly
So now you compare the "Spark" of Humanity with the "Spark" of any living organism?
I can still argue my case because how can you not see the end product?
Can your mind not realize the future of the creation brought forward?
We are trying to make allowance for the failings of humanity. Simple as that! -
DUKEofYORK wrote: »So now you compare the "Spark" of Humanity with the "Spark" of any living organism?
I can still argue my case because how can you not see the end product?
Can your mind not realize the future of the creation brought forward?
We are trying to make allowance for the failings of humanity. Simple as that!
Make a choise here, we or talk about the spark of life or the spark of humanity, diferent things
you tell me why you cant see the emotional pain of a woman of having a child that or she doesnt want, or will be born will genetic problems or is the product of r4pe? -
Chinese, 17, No real party supporter.
I am against abortion unless it deals with the child going to grow up deformed, contracting a deadly illness, or his/her brain being deformed. I am half/half on r4pe victims as they can either abort or put the child up for adoption. -
Make a choise here, we or talk about the spark of life or the spark of humanity, diferent things
you tell me why you cant see the emotional pain of a woman of having a child that or she doesnt want, or will be born will genetic problems or is the product of r4pe?
Is that what the arguement comes down to? This is about the rule in general. Now we make excuses for the rule because of factors that raise emotional impediments. By doing so we allow the way to be paved for all to follow. So the minority failings become the path we tread, and the morality is now side-tracked by the minority. This was never about ones feelings for the abased or the abused, it is far from that. These unfortunate beings are already on a path of pain, trying to use their path to justify your answer is even more BASE than their initial abuse! -
DUKEofYORK wrote: »Is that what the arguement comes down to? This is about the rule in general. Now we make excuses for the rule because of factors that raise emotional impediments. By doing so we allow the way to be paved for all to follow. So the minority failings become the path we tread, and the morality is now side-tracked by the minority. This was never about ones feelings for the abased or the abused, it is far from that. These unfortunate beings are already on a path of pain, trying to use their path to justify your answer is even more BASE than their initial abuse!
im not gonna say much more, since i said all that i had to say before you came, you lost the main part of the discussion
ill just make a little shorttened version:
IMO abortion is not murder has long as its has not gone through the embryo stage, abortions is usefull and required in cases of r4pe/teenage pregnancy/ health issues and unwanted pregnancy and it is a free will choise made by the mother because she can choose what she does with her body and with her life and we will not cause psychological problems to the mother just to bring an unwanted child to the world, adoption is not an option imo because it fails 60% of the time, very very basicly this is my point -
im not gonna say much more, since i said all that i had to say before you came, you lost the main part of the discussion
ill just make a little shorttened version:
IMO abortion is not murder has long as its has not gone through the embryo stage, abortions is usefull and required in cases of r4pe/teenage pregnancy/ health issues and unwanted pregnancy and it is a free will choise made by the mother because she can choose what she does with her body and with her life and we will not cause psychological problems to the mother just to bring an unwanted child to the world, adoption is not an option imo because it fails 60% of the time, very very basicly this is my point
So we break this down to percentages? 4 out of 10 is a cool way to go!
I will say no-more either. -
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I believe there is a fundamental difference between people and animals. Really, even if some how everybody agreed that people were highly evolved animals, we gained our right to be better than all the other creatures, because that is what natural selection promotes, survival of the fittest, by any means necessary.uncaring people? why uncaring? ill say it has long has it takes for you people to stick it in ur head, EMBRYOS ARE NOT HUMANS, ABORTION IS NOT MURDER, abortion is usefull and until we find a better way it will keep on existing
abortion should be a free choise made by the mother, not by religious nutjobs, like dot stated and well, that think killing an embryo is taking a life, its like i said, if god made it all living beings equal, then why is killin an embryo murder, and hunting for sports isnt?
Now i don't believe in darwinism. I'm a "reliegious nutjob" as you people would like to say, from your view point. But what i find most disturbing, is the LATE TERM ABORTIONS. When there is an obvious baby, and it is an obvious person growing there, that really gets me. That 5 month baby is a human, and abortion at that stage is murder.
Also, thanks to the science division of our society, it has been discovered that "the baby’s brain begins functioning enough to generate measurable brain waves (electroencephalographic [EEG] impulses) at 40 days.1 Additionally, the baby’s facial muscles move, even appearing to form “smiles” as early as 12 weeks.2 "(Perkins) If you can justify killing something that is LIVING inside of you because of YOUR (not including molesting) decision, knowing the consequences, then justice is not blind, its dead.
But here's something else too, if i was able to grow a baby from a skin cell (just say for instance), would you consider that baby to be a human, or just some culmination of cells that grew in a controlled environment? -
Unexpected pregnancy is the result of molesting. Even then, the child does not have to pay because of one man's wrong doing. Why thrust the blame on the baby? Or in your language, why blame the dividing cells? Hunt down the person responsible, it's not the DNA that defines a person, its the choices they make.which moral law dictates that you should ruin your life with an unexpected pregnancy?
Teen pregnancies, willing participants knew what could happen, should shoulder the responsibility until they can give it to some one who will give it a chance, there are people out there who do want children.
Edit:
I'm done here, but the reason i'm against abortion is because of the LATE TERM stuff. That is what really disturbs me. Every action has a consequence, but people should shoulder that responsibility, especially if they knew what could happen. -
Valid arguments, if we were talking about a human. We're not. Its an embryo, depending on how conservative you are. Some might be against fetus abortion but pro embryo and such.Aimoperative wrote: »Unexpected pregnancy is the result of molesting. Even then, the child does not have to pay because of one man's wrong doing. Why thrust the blame on the baby? Or in your language, why blame the dividing cells? Hunt down the person responsible, it's not the DNA that defines a person, its the choices they make.
Teen pregnancies, willing participants knew what could happen, should shoulder the responsibility until they can give it to some one who will give it a chance, there are people out there who do want children.
Edit:
I'm done here, but the reason i'm against abortion is because of the LATE TERM stuff. That is what really disturbs me. Every action has a consequence, but people should shoulder that responsibility, especially if they knew what could happen.
The child shouldn't have to suffer because of a molesters/rapists wrong doing.
It can be spared a life in the foster system and the victim can be spared a life-altering if not life-destroying trauma.
As easy as swallowing a pill.
This is what I don't understand about anti-abortion people.
The life of a cell-mass that doesn't think is valued higher than the life of a woman.
For what, then, if you indeed think so, which you must since you're anti-abortion.
Another mouth to feed in the world? A child that will never be loved? Another sturdy worker in a factory to pay for your welfare when you grow old? Whats the motivation behind this love for potential life? -
still what if the person being violated has got no conditions to take care of a kid or just doesn't want the kid, that person needs to have him simply because its an innocent amount of cells?
not to mention the psychological part, everytime she looked at the child she would remember what she felt the day she was violated
I do Not agree with abortion . I Believe that even though someone may be ****d as Horrible as that is and I know.. The baby that is concieved is still Innocent. No I did not get pregnant by **** but If I had I would have kept the baby seeing it as a blessing no matter the circumstances, But if that is not what other women could do they could give the child up for Adoption. Because There are many and I mean many Families that would Love that Child no matter How it came to be. Because there are so many couples around the World that try everything they can to have a child and would give anything to have one.It is also a Life what gives us the right to take it? This is Just the way I see it But I see it as Murder. Think about it really If someone Kills a baby that is not even an Hour old it is considered Murder So why is that any Different.
BTW I am American -
Angelabeth32 wrote: »I do Not agree with abortion . I Believe that even though someone may be ****d as Horrible as that is and I know.. The baby that is concieved is still Innocent. No I did not get pregnant by **** but If I had I would have kept the baby seeing it as a blessing no matter the circumstances, But if that is not what other women could do they could give the child up for Adoption. Because There are many and I mean many Families that would Love that Child no matter How it came to be. Because there are so many couples around the World that try everything they can to have a child and would give anything to have one.It is also a Life what gives us the right to take it? This is Just the way I see it But I see it as Murder. Think about it really If someone Kills a baby that is not even an Hour old it is considered Murder So why is that any Different.
BTW I am American
If you did get pregnant by **** then you would understand how life-destroying it is. You would blame it all on yourself, you'd feel like you would never get clean again.
And you wouldn't see the baby as a blessing, you'd repel it. It would be like a leech growing inside you.
You don't understand **** unless it has happened to someone very close to you, and you don't understand it fully unless it has happened to you. -
MegalodonSW wrote: »If you did get pregnant by **** then you would understand how life-destroying it is. You would blame it all on yourself, you'd feel like you would never get clean again.
And you wouldn't see the baby as a blessing, you'd repel it. It would be like a leech growing inside you.
You don't understand **** unless it has happened to someone very close to you, and you don't understand it fully unless it has happened to you.
As a Matter Of Fact My Cousin Is a Child Of **** and If her Mom would have thought as many people on here do Then I would not have her in My life. I have 4 Great Kids and Yes I know that I would have had them no matter what. Because Once you feel That life inside you something changes.And for the people that say that it is not a Human being maybe you should read up on it. The heart starts beating 25 days after conception so to me that is alive.Now You are Alive because You have a Heartbeat so Does that mean You are not Human? Again this is another subject like politics and religion, there will never be a middle ground. I think I have said All I have to say On this Subject Because It is going no where but where it always does. And that would be a debate on who is right and who is wrong.So Good Luck with this subject and for all the people still in the debate there is no win or lose here you can go about this as Long as you breath and it will not change.Have a Good Day Everyone. -
wow theres a lot of valid arguements here i really quite a few of your points but the simple fact is and from the fact i know someone who has experienced this that shes found the child a blessing due to its brought happiness to her life but it took her 2-3 years to actually love the child properly. Even tho it looks like the person who abused her she still managed to get around to loving it. Now to what i think i dont believe in abortion its not right but if the person has bin abused then i sort of agree its not fair having to have a child you didnt expect to get in the first place. Also about the adoption most kids end up going to foster care staying there getting treated like dirt and becoming druggies.
Its a fact cause i know a few people who went to foster care and 75% of them are criminals or druggies. -
17, white, Australia-
For abortion- The only exception for abortion is ra.pe. The victim has gone through enough already..and then she has to raise the offender's child too?
Those who are against abortion will normally react to this statement and argue that the woman can put the child up for adoption.
But even so the woman will feel even more guilt. As well the child will grow up too with emotional problems. Mostly emotions of lost, helplessness and more so guilty that he/she is the reason the mother put them up for adoption. Also most the time they end up criminals themselves..
Not saying that, there have been inspirational stories out in the world, of children who have grown up from these kinds of situations and have succeeded in life.
I believe it is wrong to take life from another. Everyone has as much right to live then any other human being. But abortion is different..
Abortion is a very hard topic to discuss. As from both views can be seen right.
What fools me though is that those who are against abortion are for capital punishment. But let's not discuss that one;) -
17, white, Australia-
For abortion- The only exception for abortion is ra.pe. The victim has gone through enough already..and then she has to raise the offender's child too?
Those who are against abortion will normally react to this statement and argue that the woman can put the child up for adoption.
But even so the woman will feel even more guilt. As well the child will grow up too with emotional problems. Mostly emotions of lost, helplessness and more so guilty that he/she is the reason the mother put them up for adoption. Also most the time they end up criminals themselves..
Not saying that, there have been inspirational stories out in the world, of children who have grown up from these kinds of situations and have succeeded in life.
I believe it is wrong to take life from another. Everyone has as much right to live then any other human being. But abortion is different..
Abortion is a very hard topic to discuss. As from both views can be seen right.
What fools me though is that those who are against abortion are for capital punishment. But let's not discuss that one;)
I can almost agree with that statement. But I still think its morally wrong. My BEST FRIEND got raaped 2 years ago and she was only 13. She kept the baby. I've actually been a father figure to Eli.
Hes freaking adorable. Nicole would've hated herself for killing the child. -
I can almost agree with that statement. But I still think its morally wrong. My BEST FRIEND got raaped 2 years ago and she was only 13. She kept the baby. I've actually been a father figure to Eli. Hes freaking adorable. Nicole would've hated herself for killing the child.
I think it really depends on the woman. Your friend must be a very strong lady. -
Aimoperative wrote: »I believe there is a fundamental difference between people and animals. Really, even if some how everybody agreed that people were highly evolved animals, we gained our right to be better than all the other creatures, because that is what natural selection promotes, survival of the fittest, by any means necessary.
Now i don't believe in darwinism. I'm a "reliegious nutjob" as you people would like to say, from your view point. But what i find most disturbing, is the LATE TERM ABORTIONS. When there is an obvious baby, and it is an obvious person growing there, that really gets me. That 5 month baby is a human, and abortion at that stage is murder.
Also, thanks to the science division of our society, it has been discovered that "the baby’s brain begins functioning enough to generate measurable brain waves (electroencephalographic [EEG] impulses) at 40 days.1 Additionally, the baby’s facial muscles move, even appearing to form “smiles” as early as 12 weeks.2 "(Perkins) If you can justify killing something that is LIVING inside of you because of YOUR (not including molesting) decision, knowing the consequences, then justice is not blind, its dead.
But here's something else too, if i was able to grow a baby from a skin cell (just say for instance), would you consider that baby to be a human, or just some culmination of cells that grew in a controlled environment?
again, i said i only agreed with abortion if its in an embryo stage, where it shows no brain functions/ notions of space and time, basicly it cant think it has no sences, it is not a developed organism, it is not a babyMegalodonSW wrote: »If you did get pregnant by **** then you would understand how life-destroying it is. You would blame it all on yourself, you'd feel like you would never get clean again.
And you wouldn't see the baby as a blessing, you'd repel it. It would be like a leech growing inside you.
You don't understand **** unless it has happened to someone very close to you, and you don't understand it fully unless it has happened to you.
exactly, i allways find it interesting as when it comes to an example people allways have a cousin or a friend or an aunt that had it happen to them, and also psychological study's have show that around 80% of molested woman get serious psychological problems and need professional help, so dont come and tell me that having a baby from the man that ****d you wont fk you mentaly, there are exceptions obviously, but the majority arent the exceptions
imagine the pain a person feels having to cary the child of the man that hurt you so much, taking care of the kid alone, and everytime you looked at him, remembering the pain of that awfull day, you cant imagine it unless you go through it -
I can tell Dot is very liberal and is a horrible human being.
don´t be too hard on him. when you are young many things appear black and/or white to you. i won´t exclude myself here. puberty doesn´t help much in that matter.
through experience, questioning yourself and your actions, you will be able to see many shades of grey. this progress (which is neverending, i believe) of course slows down by thinking you are without fail. -
i meant real chicks in the civilized world, sorry, should've been clearer.
I don't count fanatics or religious nutjobs.
i am no where near a fanatic or religious nutjob, i could call you people a nutjob, but it shows how you people are, no respect for anybody, this is what is happening to the world, no one respects life anymore, they only care about themselves, and i'm 100% it's not working out, look what's happening to the world, not just in the middle east, europe, america, asia, it's all over, and it will continue to grow if people continue to act the way they act, just no repsect and morals, look how the barbaric spartans killed their babies at birth, we're the same barbarians if we continue to show no respect towards life, and the women that are against abortion i'm sure they respect life, and now you people look at them as nutjobs for that reason, pathetic how you people are. -
i am no where near a fanatic or religious nutjob, i could call you people a nutjob, but it shows how you people are, no respect for anybody, this is what is happening to the world, no one respects life anymore, they only care about themselves, and i'm 100% it's not working out, look what's happening to the world, not just in the middle east, europe, america, asia, it's all over, and it will continue to grow if people continue to act the way they act, just no repsect and morals, look how the barbaric spartans killed their babies at birth, we're the same barbarians if we continue to show no respect towards life, and the women that are against abortion i'm sure they respect life, and now you people look at them as nutjobs for that reason, pathetic how you people are.
no my friend, you are the one that is pathetic for not understanding that an embryo is not human, killing an embryo is not killing a baby, its not murder
furthermore when you say we dont respect life, you dont mean all life, you mean human life, if you respected all life, you look twice at the ground before stteping in an ant
we respect life, but we can see that abortion is usefull, and simply ignoring that fact because you seem to think that killing an embryo is the same as killing a human, im sorry, but it is simply stupid -
no my friend, you are the one that is pathetic for not understanding that an embryo is not human, killing an embryo is not killing a baby, its not murder
furthermore when you say we dont respect life, you dont mean all life, you mean human life, if you respected all life, you look twice at the ground before stteping in an ant
we respect life, but we can see that abortion is usefull, and simply ignoring that fact because you seem to think that killing an embryo is the same as killing a human, im sorry, but it is simply stupid
i said it wasn't a human it's a lifeform you loser -
UK_DarkArtZ wrote: »wow theres a lot of valid arguements here i really quite a few of your points but the simple fact is and from the fact i know someone who has experienced this that shes found the child a blessing due to its brought happiness to her life but it took her 2-3 years to actually love the child properly. Even tho it looks like the person who abused her she still managed to get around to loving it. Now to what i think i dont believe in abortion its not right but if the person has bin abused then i sort of agree its not fair having to have a child you didnt expect to get in the first place. Also about the adoption most kids end up going to foster care staying there getting treated like dirt and becoming druggies.
Its a fact cause i know a few people who went to foster care and 75% of them are criminals or druggies.
I said I was done But I have to say This one thing.. Dark I Have seen More kids in Foster care because the Parents are Druggies and Could not keep their legs closed.90% Of the Countries Foster kids are there because their parents are deadbeats and Drug heads so that is not all true. I know for a fact because My Little Nephew Is in Foster care Because My Dumb ass Brother and His no good wife would rather be living like hood rats and can not stay off of drugs or out of Jail.Okay I am done I just wanted to say that most of the Kids in Foster care are there because they were born to screwed up parents that planned on having them and then left them for the system to take care of. -
i said it wasn't a human it's a lifeform you loser
wait wait wait, so make a choise? first an embryo is human, now it isnt?
youre an idiot, killing a lifeform is bad obviously, yet YOU and i do it everysingle day, wheter you are aware of that or not is irrelevant
you gotta make a choise here, because first abortion was wrong because you were killing a baby, you were proven wrong, and now abortion is bad because you are killing a life form? something you do everyday
see? the only reason abortion could be considered moraly bad was because you were killing another human, BUT if abortion is made during the embryo stage, then you are not killing a human, you are doing the same has if you were killing a bacteria, so you lost all reason to say embryonic stage abortion is wrong
if you keep on saying that abortion is murder all you are doing is falling deeper and deeper in the hole you carved for yourself
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I still don't know how she lived. This discussion has been closed.
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