pCp vs vVv LL
Comments
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I'm not here saying that I am 100 percent sure aL cheats, or that he even did in the match, regardless of what I think. The fact remains that he was off AC for about 15 mins in a match, which is a justified DQ. BTW someone COULD toggle after they died. Considering he was off AC for 2 mins suggest that IF he was toggling, it wasn't for just a quick pick.
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Pat_Bateman wrote: »He could have done this when he was dead.
I mean, if I ran this league I wouldn't even let wogl banned kids play in the first place. Be happy you got the chance to compete with that roster. I don't know why you're surprised your team got disqualified, look at the roster and you'd realize that chances are someone would cheat or try cheating.
yeaaa okay, ever since the last patch al hasnt been able to alt tab cause of his wooden computer, he has to run 3 game boosters to get a steady frame rate, well see
Bloods going to have him run a test, LLs sht -
vVvbLitzedLL wrote: »I'm not here saying that I am 100 percent sure aL cheats, or that he even did in the match, regardless of what I think. The fact remains that he was off AC for about 15 mins in a match, which is a justified DQ. BTW someone COULD toggle after they died. Considering he was off AC for 2 mins suggest that IF he was toggling, it wasn't for just a quick pick.
Basically sums up what i said :P -
Ruskie, I'm going to give you my honest opinion. I know that Blood is no idiot, and you have to admit, everyone in pCp does have a fishy past. But that by no means doesn't mean that he cheated. When we faced your team, we felt you were legit, and I don't know what it was, maybe you guys weren't trying or w/e, but we ended up tying you guys most matches. And I know for a fact that iD Gaming wouldn't be able to tie vvv lifeline, so suggesting this spontaneous improvement is just mere luck would be foolish.
But Ruskie, I also understand your position. There is a chance that most of the shots were either fluke or just randy stuff, I mean I preaim that stuff half the time too. But because he did it consistently, and I have seen replays of cheaters. they almost ALWAYS cover up like aL was doing in there.
So therefore, I believe that they did have reliable grounds to ban aL, and declare the match overturned. But I also understand that it was slightly hasty, and understand the position of the ESL admins, they are up late at night reviewing every little thing, because the cup is continuing tomorrow, so they have to make a logical decision. And in this instance, the most logical one was banning aL.
if they have all night it would be nice for them to match the time he logged off client to the time in game to see if it was possible for him to even alt tab.
side note: These guys dont work like Pat Bateman. -
if they have all night it would be nice for them to match the time he logged off client to the time in game to see if it was possible for him to even alt tab.
But from the other side, he might not have been cheating at all. But him going off client and on is an auto DQ, and does warrant a 2 year ban as per ESL rules, which he signed and agreed with before he created his account. -
But from the other side, he might not have been cheating at all. But him going off client and on is an auto DQ, and does warrant a 2 year ban as per ESL rules, which he signed and agreed with before he created his account.
if this is true then the 2 year ban is fair. -
if this is true then the 2 year ban is fair.
Understand though, that this is a professional league, which when put into season play, gives either LARGE cash prizes or trips to places like WCG/WEM. So when you have that, you can't afford anyone who breaks any rules, no matter how minor. -
Understand though, that this is a professional league, which when put into season play, gives either LARGE cash prizes or trips to places like WCG/WEM. So when you have that, you can't afford anyone who breaks any rules, no matter how minor.
Bypassing Aequitas sounds more like bypassing client. This is why he got the 2 year ban amirite? Correct me if im wrong. -
yes we were watching the replay and it is possible to turn it while dead, but what pistola said was right, and for some of the rounds its impossible for him to have turned it off.
I believe what should be done here, is that aL should have a PC speed checkup, TV'd and then after that, ESL should correspond the AC logoff times w/ the replay and see if they fit. I suggest the TV and PC speed checkup because you can see how fast his computer is, and based off that, you can estimate how long it takes for him to alt+tab in game. It will probably be done after the tournament, if anyone even wants to go through all that trouble. -
Bypassing Aequitas sounds more like bypassing client. This is why he got the 2 year ban amirite? Correct me if im wrong.
^^^^^^^^
that is basically it, but this wasn't fully proved as a bypass with cheats. it is just determined that he DID indeed alter it in some way, which as i repeat he signed not to do. -
I believe what should be done here, is that aL should have a PC speed checkup, TV'd and then after that, ESL should correspond the AC logoff times w/ the replay and see if they fit. I suggest the TV and PC speed checkup because you can see how fast his computer is, and based off that, you can estimate how long it takes for him to alt+tab in game. It will probably be done after the tournament, if anyone even wants to go through all that trouble.
Thats all we are asking for. We just think that it was a bit to fast of a thing to call, so we are currently trying to see what we can change -
Thats all we are asking for. We just think that it was a bit to fast of a thing to call, so we are currently trying to see what we can change
Also understand though, that with an advanced programming capability, you can have a background program running, altering the client, w/o him alt+tabbing. So with the knowledge that this is possible, in the event that he knew that he would get caught, he could have created this program to throw the trail off him, and pass this off as a MAJOR glitch that only happened with him. Unlikely, but plausible. -
dotaaaishere wrote: »yeaaa okay, ever since the last patch al hasnt been able to alt tab cause of his wooden computer, he has to run 3 game boosters to get a steady frame rate, well see
Bloods going to have him run a test, LLs sht
You realize you can't run Game booster with ESL because it's a rule.... -
soo he didnt leave game
ac log shows him logging out
esl wire didnt even catch a cheat..... don't it scan pc?
alt tabbing out injecting, closing, redo. will sure crash his game.
I believe they are called ring0 cheats in counter strike, someone correct me if i'm wrong though.
But these are designed for client bypasses, and are untraceable. i don't know how they work, but that's what I heard. -
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If you want to get technical, he didn't bypass aequitas since aequitas isn't the program being used. They are using ESL Wire. (Assuming we want to get smart with wording). [ESL Protip: Fix the wording, or it'll be abused to hell. Have to get Kuch or Trevor to do it (assuming you even know who Trevor is, lol)]^^^^^^^^
that is basically it, but this wasn't fully proved as a bypass with cheats. it is just determined that he DID indeed alter it in some way, which as i repeat he signed not to do.
Now, iirc, it's not possible to close or logout and then log back into a match without closing the game. The game has to open each time you try to connect to a match. To say he open/closed ESL Wire during a match without closing CF sounds crazy to me. Multiple login times showed up all the time for tournaments in CoDBO, same thing is probably happening here.
To try to enforce the "Bypassing" rule for someone's ac not working properly, when many people in the event aren't even running the AC, is terrible procedure, and the cod:bo section has been warned about that before too. Also ask them about the fun they had when TE told them that to enforce any config violations, they had to check -every single config file- for everyone in every match of that tournament. You either enforce every single person in every match to have a working AC that is logged in through the entirety of the match, or you can't hand out 2 year bans when one person you don't like has a glitchy AC.
As for the evidence video posted in the thread a few pages ago, nothing looks out of the ordinary to me. There's maybe 1 play that gives me 5% doubt that he might be cheating, but with sound that doubt would be gone instantly and it was more than likely a legitimate play. Without any real significant and definitive proof, you definitely cannot issue that 2 year cheating ban. The 2 year cheating ban is only given when you have absolute proof he was cheating, and the evidence you've provided to the public definitely does not prove that he was.
Understand though, that rules have to be enforced fairly and legitimately. You don't hand out a 2 year ban for actions that only warrant a disqualification from the tournament. Admins do have their own rules and guidelines they have to follow and people to go through when enforcing rules and handing out punishments. [ESL Protip: Read the admin wiki. Now]Understand though, that this is a professional league, which when put into season play, gives either LARGE cash prizes or trips to places like WCG/WEM. So when you have that, you can't afford anyone who breaks any rules, no matter how minor.
Need definitive proof to hand out a 2 year cheating ban. Speculating crazy scenarios doesn't prove anything other than that you have a creative mind. Bans can only be handed out for what actually happened, not for what admins -think- happened.Also understand though, that with an advanced programming capability, you can have a background program running, altering the client, w/o him alt+tabbing. So with the knowledge that this is possible, in the event that he knew that he would get caught, he could have created this program to throw the trail off him, and pass this off as a MAJOR glitch that only happened with him. Unlikely, but plausible.
ESL Wire works on ring0 level. It is (supposedly) designed to be able to catch pretty much anything you throw at it, since you can't run a cheat past ESL Wire since there's no ring(-1). Once again, you're just speculating as to how he could have cheated, without actually proving that he cheated.I believe they are called ring0 cheats in counter strike, someone correct me if i'm wrong though.
But these are designed for client bypasses, and are untraceable. i don't know how they work, but that's what I heard.
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tl;dr: Evidence is weak and procedure has been broken/is flawed.
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Rule was put in place because of the way gamebooster works, constantly rewriting ram for no reason, messes with the way ESL Wire works. I would know, I wrote the rule.just remember i asked ice_man about this earlier. you can't run gamebooster with ESL WIRE, idk why but he told me i couldn't. -
Now, iirc, it's not possible to close or logout and then log back into a match without closing the game. The game has to open each time you try to connect to a match. To say he open/closed ESL Wire during a match without closing CF sounds crazy to me. Multiple login times showed up all the time for tournaments in CoDBO, same thing is probably happening here.
To try to enforce the "Bypassing" rule for someone's ac not working properly, when many people in the event aren't even running the AC, is terrible procedure, and the cod:bo section has been warned about that before too. Also ask them about the fun they had when TE told them that to enforce any config violations, they had to check -every single config file- for everyone in every match of that tournament. You either enforce every single person in every match to have a working AC that is logged in through the entirety of the match, or you can't hand out 2 year bans when one person you don't like has a glitchy AC.
Issue with this was he wasn't running the match. He was opening up match chat and running the Cross Fire, not through Wire, but normally from his desktop/or something else. -
Once again, you're just speculating as to how he could cheated, without actually proving he cheated.
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tl;dr: Evidence is weak and procedure has been broken/is flawed.
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I NEVER said that aL 100% cheated. as I previously stated, i was saying that these are just POSSIBLE ways, and that he probably did do SOMETHING, if not cheat. -
Issue with this was he wasn't running the match. He was opening up match chat and running the Cross Fire, not through Wire, but normally from his desktop/or something else.
If what Blood says is true, then it gives my theory a bump. He was definitely altering something, and he was being discrete about it as well. This is a little fishy at the least. -
And yet it showed him logging into the match? Just being in match chat doesn't cause the login message to appear.Issue with this was he wasn't running the match. He was opening up match chat and running the Cross Fire, not through Wire, but normally from his desktop/or something else. -
And yet it showed him logging into the match? Just being in match chat doesn't cause the login message to appear.
It does actually. If you go into match chat while running the game, why else would you have the play symbol next to your name? Logs were shown of when he was running Wire entirely for this match which includes the time where you opened match chat.
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