Should rejoining be treated as an offense.
Comments
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I think any form of unsportsmanlike behavior should be demoted. So yes, I believe it should be threated in the same way as glitching, since it is a similar form of exploiting the game's mechanics for a purpose it was not intended.
So now we resolved that issue how do we enforce it? Bombard support with tickets and what is proof? screen shots? Even then how can you be sure they are from the same game? -
So now we resolved that issue how do we enforce it? Bombard support with tickets and what is proof? screen shots? Even then how can you be sure they are from the same game?Replays will show people rejoining. So report them the same way you would report a glitcher.
And rejoiners will likely only get reported if they continuously do it during a game, in which case it becomes a bother to other players. -
Replays will show people rejoining. So report them the same way you would report a glitcher.
And rejoiners will likely only get reported if they continuously do it during a game, in which case it becomes a bother to other players.
What about client errors? Have you never got one and been killed afterwards? I have.
Or say you spawned and got killed and cliented almost at the same time, you couldn't rejoin for fear of getting banned?
And is this really that big of an issue for support to deal with when they have more important things to do like watch the back log of hacking replays? -
What about client errors? Have you never got one and been killed afterwards? I have.
Or say you spawned and got killed and cliented almost at the same time, you couldn't rejoin for fear of getting banned?
And is this really that big of an issue for support to deal with when they have more important things to do like watch the back log of hacking replays?There is a difference between rejoining after getting a client error and rejoining after getting killed.
You may get 1 client error during a match right after getting killed during the first minute of the game, but not 4.
Also, its really easy to afford being reported for exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule after getting a client error, and that's just waiting a few minutes before rejoining, so you don't start playing again until the next round starts.
And yes, it is a real issue. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up. Like Talon explained, the bomb can be planted well during the first 2 minutes of the game, where people killed can still exploit the 2 minute join-in rule, and change the outcome of a round. Something which is especially annoying, when you need the wins to finish your daily missions. -
There is a difference between rejoining after getting a client error and rejoining after getting killed.
You may get 1 client error during a match right after getting killed during the first minute of the game, but not 4.
So we don't ban on the first time? what about second? or when do we start? or is once enough if they simply join to early and they respawn?And yes, it is a real issue. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up. Like Talon explained, the bomb can be planted well during the first 2 minutes of the game, where people killed can still exploit the 2 minute join-in rule, and change the outcome of a round. Something which is especially annoying, when you need the wins to finish your daily missions.
Well it might be an issue to you but I would prefer an aimbotter to banned instead of a player that gives me an extra kill. -
So we don't ban on the first time? what about second? or when do we start? or is once enough if they simply join to early and they respawn?
Well it might be an issue to you but I would prefer an aimbotter to banned instead of a player that gives me an extra kill.We start reporting when they start using it to their advantage. Which is the definition of an exploit. If someone rejoining doesn't give him an edge and allows him to change the outcome of a match, I doubt anyone will notice and bother with a report.
We don't go around reporting people for glitching either if they accidentally fall through the map. It is when they start using it to their advantage, that we report them. -
We start reporting when they start using it to their advantage. Which is the definition of an exploit. If someone rejoining doesn't give him an edge and allows him to change the outcome of a match, I doubt anyone will notice and bother with a report.
We don't go around reporting people for glitching either if they accidentally fall through the map. It is when they start using it to their advantage, that we report them.
Still there needs to be some requirements for this to work.
I mean if you get killed and client'ed at the same time and then innocently rejoined killing the last guy and defusing the bomb according to you they should be banned - Obviously that doesn't work.
You would need proof to ban someone like if they rejoined most rounds after being killed, the problem is where to start and end?
So back to the original question:
So we don't ban on the first time? what about second? or when do we start? or is once enough if they simply join to early and they respawn?[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »It's technically abusing a mechanic not intended in a way by the devs, so technically it COULD fall under those guidelines.
I'd rather have it fixed instead though.
I doubt it.
It is obviously intended to be that way; that being a player can respawn before a certain time limit has passed. Whether this is a new player or re-joiner. If the intention wasn't for this to happen then it wouldn't have been made that way.
The game mechanics let you leave and rejoin games, and also let you respawn before the time limit has passed, it's not exploiting IMO.
I suspect it is there to make teams fair up until a certain time has passed.
Sure rejoiners are pathetic but it's not the same as getting into a solid box or going through a solid wall.
Also abusing kick voting could be classed as "abusing a mechanic not intended in a way by the devs" if the kick was unfounded, and kick voting causes more disparity in games than rejoining ever has. -
Still there needs to be some requirements for this to work.
I mean if you get killed and client'ed at the same time and then innocently rejoined killing the last guy and defusing the bomb according to you they should be banned - Obviously that doesn't work.
You would need proof to ban someone like if they rejoined most rounds after being killed, the problem is where to start and end?
So back to the original question:
So we don't ban on the first time? what about second? or when do we start? or is once enough if they simply join to early and they respawn?Obviously you don't seem to get the difference between getting a client error or exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule.
First off, a client error doesn't just boot you from the match, but the entire room. Second, a client error doesn't take effect immediately. It usually looks like the game continues unchanged, until everyone around you freezes and you get booted to the lobby.
In other words, a lot of time is lost during that error, And even more time is lost during your attempt to rejoin the room, and the game you were in. Now, combined with the small change of you getting a client error while being killed during the first few seconds of the game, it makes it HIGHLY unlikely that you manage to get back into the game during the first 2 minutes of the game, let alone instantly are able to rejoin after leaving the room.
Conclusion: A person that rejoins after a client error, EVEN if he miraculously manages to get back in time to play in the same round he left, looks NOTHING like a player who leaves and re-enters the game in a fraction of a second to get a do-over during the same round he got killed. Therefor a client error can NOT lead to you getting punished for exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule. -
Obviously you don't seem to get the difference between getting a client error or exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule.
First off, a client error doesn't just boot you from the match, but the entire room. Second, a client error doesn't take effect immediately. It usually looks like the game continues unchanged, until everyone around you freezes and you get booted to the lobby.
In other words, a lot of time is lost during that error, And even more time is lost during your attempt to rejoin the room, and the game you were in. Now, combined with the small change of you getting a client error while being killed during the first few seconds of the game, it makes it HIGHLY unlikely that you manage to get back into the game during the first 2 minutes of the game, let alone instantly are able to rejoin after leaving the room.
Conclusion: A person that rejoins after a client error, EVEN if he miraculously manages to get back in time to play in the same round he left, looks NOTHING like a player who leaves and re-enters the game in a fraction of a second to get a do-over during the same round he got killed. Therefor a client error can NOT lead to you getting punished for exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule.[/b][/color][/center]
I don't think you comprehend what I mean.
For a banning system to work you need 100% proof, nothing less with suffice, with that said you need to define what is proof;
Is leaving a game and rejoining prior to the limit bannable in itself? or do you actually need to kill someone or inflict at least 1 hp damage? Would simply intimidating the other player be enough to merit a ban? i.e the player can't defuse because he can hear a ghost.
Is it enough that you started a game of GM and just spawned and mommy said "Tommy get out of that game, I need to check my bank account" (quits), Mommy: "oh nevermind" - Rejoins?
And you still didn't answer whether you would prefer hackers being banned or rejoiners? lol -
I have WiMax broadband in Spain, when it's good it's good and I can ping 60 - 80ms which is ok but sometimes it drops my connection momentarily and I'm out of the game. It's a pain but usually I try and rejoin the same game if my space hasn't gone. Sometimes, we have no choice.
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I don't think you comprehend what I mean.
For a banning system to work you need 100% proof, nothing less with suffice, with that said you need to define what is proof;
Is leaving a game and rejoining prior to the limit bannable in itself? or do you actually need to kill someone or inflict at least 1 hp damage? Would simply intimidating the other player be enough to merit a ban? i.e the player can't defuse because he can hear a ghost.
Is it enough that you started a game of GM and just spawned and mommy said "Tommy get out of that game, I need to check my bank account" (quits), Mommy: "oh nevermind" - Rejoins?
And you still didn't answer whether you would prefer hackers being banned or rejoiners? lolChimpzz, look up the word "Exploitation" in a dictionary. It will give you all the answers you need.
None of your examples qualify as situations that could be mistaken for exploitation of the 2 minute join-in rule, because its not exploiting it.
You might as well be asking for what divines glitching. Being inside a wall or under the map, or using being inside a wall or under the map to your advantage. The question answers itself.
What divines exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule, is if its used to come back to life during the same round you were killed. That means, you die, you quit, you rejoin with the minimum amount of time between the 3. No situation that you can come up with will remotely look like that. Therefor it is irrelevant.
And to answer your last question, let me ask you a question. What would rather have broken into? Your car or your house? Its the same stupid question. Cheating is cheating, and I do not prefer one form of cheating over another. Sure, hacking is worse that exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule, but that doesn't mean you should be able to get away with the lather just because other people are doing the former. So both should be punished, and the severity of that punishment is up to the people in change of dealing out those punishments. -
Chimpzz, look up the word "Exploitation" in a dictionary. It will give you all the answers you need.
None of your examples qualify as situations that could be mistaken for exploitation of the 2 minute join-in rule, because its not exploiting it.
You might as well be asking for what divines glitching. Being inside a wall or under the map, or using being inside a wall or under the map to your advantage. The question answers itself.
What divines exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule, is if its used to come back to life during the same round you were killed. That means, you die, you quit, you rejoin with the minimum amount of time between the 3. No situation that you can come up with will remotely look like that. Therefor it is irrelevant.
And to answer your last question, let me ask you a question. What would rather have broken into? Your car or your house? Its the same stupid question. Cheating is cheating, and I do not prefer one form of cheating over another. Sure, hacking is worse that exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule, but that doesn't mean you should be able to get away with the lather just because other people are doing the former. So both should be punished, and the severity of that punishment is up to the people in change of dealing out those punishments.
That pink text style is very annoying. -
I doubt it.
It is obviously intended to be that way; that being a player can respawn before a certain time limit has passed. Whether this is a new player or re-joiner. If the intention wasn't for this to happen then it wouldn't have been made that way.
The game mechanics let you leave and rejoin games, and also let you respawn before the time limit has passed, it's not exploiting IMO.
I suspect it is there to make teams fair up until a certain time has passed.
Sure rejoiners are pathetic but it's not the same as getting into a solid box or going through a solid wall.
Also abusing kick voting could be classed as "abusing a mechanic not intended in a way by the devs" if the kick was unfounded, and kick voting causes more disparity in games than rejoining ever has.
Incorrect, there are plenty of things in the game that are abused due to engine limitations, bugs or the like. Take for example; Glitching. People can do it, if it wasn't intended by the developers, it wouldn't be there right? Or what about blocking in MM/HM/HMX? Clearly that was totally intended as a form of gameplay for the mode as well right? No, these are abused flaws in the game that haven't been or cannot be fixed.
I highly doubt the devs intended a player to be capable of respawning several times (if needed) within the time frame. No, players are abusing the ability of them allowing players to join in late because there isn't any coding to prevent them from re-entering the game. Such as ZM.
I highly doubt it was intended to make teams 'fair' since its not uncommon knowledge that the join methods aren't perfect where you can start a game that has a 1v3 right at the start despite the unbalance. Which I doubt was intended either. -
And to answer your last question, let me ask you a question. What would rather have broken into? Your car or your house? Its the same stupid question. Cheating is cheating, and I do not prefer one form of cheating over another. Sure, hacking is worse that exploiting the 2 minute join-in rule, but that doesn't mean you should be able to get away with the lather just because other people are doing the former. So both should be punished, and the severity of that punishment is up to the people in change of dealing out those punishments.[/b][/color][/center]
Car since it's the lesser of two evils, just like you should want reviewers to review serious complaints about game exploitation rather than the lesser issues.
The fact is that whilst it may be ideal that support deals with all reports hacking, glitching, scamming, re-joining, kick vote abuse - They cannot even handle hacking reports.
What next boosting, bunny hopping, double jumping reports and bans? Those are exploits too:rolleyes:[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »Incorrect, there are plenty of things in the game that are abused due to engine limitations, bugs or the like. Take for example; Glitching. People can do it, if it wasn't intended by the developers, it wouldn't be there right? Or what about blocking in MM/HM/HMX? Clearly that was totally intended as a form of gameplay for the mode as well right? No, these are abused flaws in the game that haven't been or cannot be fixed.
Those are not as regular or as normal to do, as it is to simply enter a game/leave.
Glitching requires know-how, it is not something a regular player could do except accidently, blocking is not an issue the devs wanted to happen either.
But the joining of games and leaving of games is intended obviously, same as with the time limit for re-spawning.
The act of rejoining can only very loosely be defined as an "exploit" because they might not have intended dead players to leave and rejoin, but the means by which they do this 'exploit' are fully legal hence doesn't warrant a ban.
I mean you are allowed to leave/re-enter games it's not an issue in TDM etc[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »I highly doubt the devs intended a player to be capable of respawning several times (if needed) within the time frame. No, players are abusing the ability of them allowing players to join in late because there isn't any coding to prevent them from re-entering the game. Such as ZM.
They don't have to stop them re-entering like ZM that would be very annoying if you client'ed or something, they just have to re adjust the clock for re-spawning.
So either you are there when the spawn happens or you don't spawn at all.[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »I highly doubt it was intended to make teams 'fair' since its not uncommon knowledge that the join methods aren't perfect where you can start a game that has a 1v3 right at the start despite the unbalance. Which I doubt was intended either.
Yes those are bugs, but I still think it is there so that if you start 1v2 and then someone joins immediately afterwards they too can play to balance the team. -
Car since it's the lesser of two evils, just like you should want reviewers to review serious complaints about game exploitation rather than the lesser issues.
The fact is that whilst it may be ideal that support deals with all reports hacking, glitching, scamming, re-joining, kick vote abuse - They cannot even handle hacking reports.
What next boosting, bunny hopping, double jumping reports and bans? Those are exploits too:rolleyes:So basically what you are saying, is that the guy that broke into your car should get away with it, because cops have more important criminals to catch?
Please tell use where you park your car at night, Chimpzz. -
just to say, if it was like ZM spawn, i would quit. i error too much to have to be kicked out of the match completely when i error... atleast now i can rejoin for the next round...Car since it's the lesser of two evils, just like you should want reviewers to review serious complaints about game exploitation rather than the lesser issues.
The fact is that whilst it may be ideal that support deals with all reports hacking, glitching, scamming, re-joining, kick vote abuse - They cannot even handle hacking reports.
What next boosting, bunny hopping, double jumping reports and bans? Those are exploits too:rolleyes:
Those are not as regular or as normal to do, as it is to simply enter a game/leave.
Glitching requires know-how, it is not something a regular player could do except accidently, blocking is not an issue the devs wanted to happen either.
But the joining of games and leaving of games is intended obviously, same as with the time limit for re-spawning.
The act of rejoining can only very loosely be defined as an "exploit" because they might not have intended dead players to leave and rejoin, but the means by which they do this 'exploit' are fully legal hence doesn't warrant a ban.
I mean you are allowed to leave/re-enter games it's not an issue in TDM etc
They don't have to stop them re-entering like ZM that would be very annoying if you client'ed or something, they just have to re adjust the clock for re-spawning.
So either you are there when the spawn happens or you don't spawn at all.
Yes those are bugs, but I still think it is there so that if you start 1v2 and then someone joins immediately afterwards they too can play to balance the team. -
So basically what you are saying, is that the guy that broke into your car should get away with it, because cops have more important criminals to catch?
Please tell use where you park your car at night, Chimpzz.
If the police was as incompetent as Z8games you are correct.
However police can deal with all issues 99% of the time effectively.
Z8games cannot as I said even deal with hacking reports adding to this boosting, bunny hopping, double jumping, re-joining, kick vote abuse reports and bans would either make the situation worse or just the same i.e they wouldn't even review them. -
[MOD]Talonblaze wrote: »Incorrect, there are plenty of things in the game that are abused due to engine limitations, bugs or the like. Take for example; Glitching. People can do it, if it wasn't intended by the developers, it wouldn't be there right? Or what about blocking in MM/HM/HMX? Clearly that was totally intended as a form of gameplay for the mode as well right? No, these are abused flaws in the game that haven't been or cannot be fixed.
I highly doubt the devs intended a player to be capable of respawning several times (if needed) within the time frame. No, players are abusing the ability of them allowing players to join in late because there isn't any coding to prevent them from re-entering the game. Such as ZM.
I highly doubt it was intended to make teams 'fair' since its not uncommon knowledge that the join methods aren't perfect where you can start a game that has a 1v3 right at the start despite the unbalance. Which I doubt was intended either.
Easy fix talon....
look at EM. If you enter after the game starts you wait.
S&D should be the same. -
Easy fix talon....
look at EM. If you enter after the game starts you wait.
S&D should be the same.
Exactly.
Much better than adding to an already overloaded and non functioning report system or adding a ZM style unable to join message so when you client you cannot rejoin.
Or accidently banning people for simply re-spawning which the game does allow. -
If the police was as incompetent as Z8games you are correct.
However police can deal with all issues 99% of the time effectively.
Z8games cannot as I said even deal with hacking reports adding to this boosting, bunny hopping, double jumping, re-joining, kick vote abuse reports and bans would either make the situation worse or just the same i.e they wouldn't even review them.I don't know what planet you are from, but most serious crimes take several years to be solved, if they get solved at all. While Z8Games at worst would only require a couple of months to deal with their backed-up report system.
So I don't know about you, but to me Z8Games seems to be the more efficient. -
I don't know what planet you are from, but most serious crimes take several years to be solved, if they get solved at all. While Z8Games at worst would only require a couple of months to deal with their backed-up report system.
So I don't know about you, but to me Z8Games seems to be the more efficient.
And considering support tickets get handled a lot faster than complaints to the police (for example) would get solved..
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