What should I do when the staff fails?
I recently reported 6 hackers - 1 speeder, 5 wallers. All 5 wallers were high ranks and 4 of them admitted that they are using vip hacks. Now, 10 days later, all these guys still play.
What went wrong?
I still own a replay showing 4 of the wallers. They did it in an obvious way because they thought my team hacked aswell.
What went wrong?
I still own a replay showing 4 of the wallers. They did it in an obvious way because they thought my team hacked aswell.
Comments
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autoban 3 days gm ban permanentI recently reported 6 hackers - 1 speeder, 5 wallers. All 5 wallers were high ranks and 4 of them admitted that they are using vip hacks. Now, 10 days later, all these guys still play.
What went wrong?
I still own a replay showing 4 of the wallers. They did it in an obvious way because they thought my team hacked aswell. -
I think it is very unlikely that vip hackers get caught by the autoban system - otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to get these hacks. Furthermore non of them got the "honarable soldier" ribbon. So they would be banned at least 7 days or? I think I checked the 14th and the 20th of december.
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What is going wrong, is that a million reports come in every day, and there are only a hand full of GMs to review them all.[MOD]Iceman wrote: »It may take a little while for them to get to your report. If they are found to be hacking, they will be permanently banned.Good to see you back, Ice. It has been a while.
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You could have copied your response from the other threadWhat is going wrong, is that a million reports come in every day, and there are only a hand full of GMs to review them all.
@Dot & Frecklez
I'll keep waiting then and will post again next year :rolleyes: -
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[MOD]Iceman wrote: »It may take a little while for them to get to your report. If they are found to be hacking, they will be permanently banned.
I was wondering, I reported a person some were in July.
And again some where in September.
I caught him using that invisible heck in GM.
where he was walking around but still stayed invisible.
Like 1 week ago I saw him.
That kind of surprised me......
If the missed it the first oke but the second time?
Kind of annoyed me and since than I kind of gave up on reporting.
I know people get banned when hecking but that that pathetic nub still didn't get banned still annoys me. -
Report would be handeled easier, if newbies stoped reporting people who are just good.
I'm a GM player, and people "apparently" Don't know how many that actaully does it but they report me.
I hear ghost breat, what the hell do you do if you're decent at PinPointing? You aim where you heard it and shoot.
If you hear someone in vent, or through a wall on some map, you run around and shoot them cause they're camping the same spot, BAM you're a waller.
I bet, if there was 2 milion reports everyday, only 5k of them would be of actuall hackers.
The rest just legit players kicking ass. -
Z8 is being to soft on hackers.
when it comes to banning hackers, it should never NEVER NEVER be a win/win situation. if one were to download a hack that person should think about all of the consequences of hacking because hacks cant instantly get downloaded to one's computer. -
I recently reported 6 hackers - 1 speeder, 5 wallers. All 5 wallers were high ranks and 4 of them admitted that they are using vip hacks. Now, 10 days later, all these guys still play.
What went wrong?
I still own a replay showing 4 of the wallers. They did it in an obvious way because they thought my team hacked aswell.
You do realized that the GMs were on their holiday breaks so they werent able to do anything from then til just recently, so give it a few more days or so.. -
Time... it may take a while for the report to be actually reviewed. If they are so guilty as you say they are... double check with just a simple review yourself. Look at the replay, take another view at the screenshot(s) of them possibly admitting to using hacks.
Also the report itself, the more details in that report of times when they used their hacks, the exact nature of the hack used (Rather than just VIP, specify which hack was used from the "VIP list")
Again, it's just a matter of time. -
1. Takes time to review your report- excluding the time that takes them to even get to yours.
2. A/B could have got them first, thus showing a "banned sign" in the database.
Just looking through some of the OPs previous hack reports we can see that a bunch of them have been permanently banned, a bunch have been picked up by the AB system and there are still some in the system that need review.
We have to set priority levels on the hack reports because we get so many. This is only logical when dealing with such a large pool. A hacker banned by the AB system is moved to a lower priority. The reaction here is going to be "omg z8 is too soft on hackers because the A/B system doesn't issue permanent bans!!!"
Let me explain something to all users. And there's going to be some good information here so please read the indented example. It might help you the next time you want to complain.A person who hacks and is caught by the A/B system plays LESS than someone who hacks and is not caught by the A/B system.The chances of you seeing the user in game, especially in a public game is a pretty big long shot. Though it does happen, in those cases we apologize that you seemed to have "found" your hacker again. But if he's still hacking then he'll get caught under the same A/B system and probably won't be playing a few minutes after you found him.
If you hack and get caught, you get kicked from the server and banned for a period of time. If you decide to come back to the server when you get unbanned and you still hack then you will get kicked and banned again. Usually within minutes. All the way until your account is permanently banned by the system. A total of something like 55 days after your first ban, and in those 55 days you might have played a total of 5-10 minutes of game.
It might show on the clan page, last played X day. And then you (the reporter) comes to the forums and moans that "the player is still playing". Even though they have played a total of 30 seconds of game play and got rebanned immediately by the auto ban system.
Now before you start going off and saying "but he hacked once he should be banned". The reply to this is, if he gets back in the game after being banned from the A/B system and is not caught again, then it could very well be because he is not hacking. The A/B system is designed to discourage players from hacking. If the player comes back and is no longer hacking then its doing its job. You are frustrated because you lost one game because this player hacked once and feel he should never play the game again. The A/B system allows some leniency for players to reform. This is the nature of the system. Justice in the world does allow for people to reform. And if they don't get caught again then chances are they are not hacking.
But wait, there's more. The original report is still in the system. And if we review it and issue a permanent ban, then the player will still be banned. Now the HACKER is the one complaining to us and our answer is "we are sorry but in order to maintain the integrity of our users and our hack report system we cannot unban your account." Only in the rarest of cases does an unban happen manually from us. (we're talking a handful in all of last year)
So take the time to read some of this and realize that we are doing everything we can within our power on a daily basis to; Stop Hacks from entering the game by reporting them to xtrap and the developers, ban hackers by reviewing reports, maintaining the auto ban system so that it continues to catch hackers, working with the moderators and physically playing the game with our team here so that we can catch live hackers within rooms. -
Saidin over the past year or two I've seen you praise the autoban system a fair amount, and while I think it's an awesome idea in theory, in real life applications it just doesn't cut it.
Hackers can very very easily get past the autoban system, by very simply creating an alternate account and trying to hack on that for a couple minutes first. Once they don't get banned on there they just switch to their mains.
That makes the autoban system only useful on catching only the very bored hackers that don't at all know what they're doing.
I know that player reports help get rid of the hackers that are smart enough to dodge the autoban as I explained above, however what we really need is new ways to stop them.
I noticed that on CF LA players can't make an account unless they give a real e-mail address and confirm it, why not do the same in our version? I think the trouble of making a new e-mail every time the hacker loses his alt to the autoban while testing to see if his hack still works will dissuade hackers from hacking. (If our version started doing this recently then letting us know in the announcements would have been a good idea to keep us up to date on what you guys are doing to prevent hackers :P) -
Ever heard of 10-Minute-Mail ?GodsGunman wrote: »I noticed that on CF LA players can't make an account unless they give a real e-mail address and confirm it, why not do the same in our version? I think the trouble of making a new e-mail every time the hacker loses his alt to the autoban while testing to see if his hack still works will dissuade hackers from hacking.
Not that hard to make multiple e-mails to confirm the verification mail. -
GodsGunman wrote: »Saidin over the past year or two I've seen you praise the autoban system a fair amount, and while I think it's an awesome idea in theory, in real life applications it just doesn't cut it.
Hackers can very very easily get past the autoban system, by very simply creating an alternate account and trying to hack on that for a couple minutes first. Once they don't get banned on there they just switch to their mains.
That makes the autoban system only useful on catching only the very bored hackers that don't at all know what they're doing.
I know that player reports help get rid of the hackers that are smart enough to dodge the autoban as I explained above, however what we really need is new ways to stop them.
I noticed that on CF LA players can't make an account unless they give a real e-mail address and confirm it, why not do the same in our version? I think the trouble of making a new e-mail every time the hacker loses his alt to the autoban while testing to see if his hack still works will dissuade hackers from hacking. (If our version started doing this recently then letting us know in the announcements would have been a good idea to keep us up to date on what you guys are doing to prevent hackers :P)
Simply put, we are aware at the ease at which new accounts can be made. Decisions of that nature are not always made to "prevent hacking" as you would suggest. And changes come and go to how new accounts are made to the point where making announcements about it is not something we are going to be doing.
It's not worth comparing CF LA to us. Decisions of all natures come from various levels of a company. On some, there is a wide level of input required/needed/collected. On others the decision gets made from a higher level. No matter what, we'll never be able to fully compare the two versions in matters of those nature.
It's probably also worth pointing out the speed at which hacks are being disabled through all the systems we have. For example, just yesterday we received word from a brand new community advocate (someone who decided to turn a new leaf for once) about a bunch of working hacks.
All the hacks that were submitted through this person had all been picked up and detected either by xtrap (to not allow them in) or by HGW (to kick/ban when detected). And these were hacks with updates that were in less than 24 hours.
So while I'm quick to praise the auto ban system for its banning ability. I'm also quick to praise our staff here for constantly working in a proactive state of mind rather than trying to react to the hundreds of thousands of hack reports we receive. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »It's probably also worth pointing out the speed at which hacks are being disabled through all the systems we have. For example, just yesterday we received word from a brand new community advocate (someone who decided to turn a new leaf for once) about a bunch of working hacks..
Aww you make me wanna know who that is now :rolleyes: I have a good idea but obviously cant be sure.... I hate being so curious hehe.
I'll be honest I don't really see that many hacks :S I dunno if that's just me or what but people always seem to exaggerate a lot... Although for reporting them I don't usually report them if I already know someone else is going to, its pointless clogging up the support staff with duplicate reports.
Edit- Off-topic like but I'm wondering - Saidin is urban warfare gonna make a come back some time soon? :P I enjoy reading those ;D -
Saidin what do you do when you guys get replays of a not so obvious hack?
Like some player is playing normally and he may even die at times to not let the others think he is hacking, but he really could be walling without it being obvious, that's what alot of players do, and we may think they are pro while they arent.
How do you know he is hacking by seeing a replay?
Does it mean we depend on the auto ban system to ban those guys? -
radiCal_pT wrote: »Saidin what do you do when you guys get replays of a not so obvious hack?
Like some player is playing normally and he may even die at times to not let the others think he is hacking, but he really could be walling without it being obvious, that's what alot of players do, and we may think they are pro while they arent.
How do you know he is hacking by seeing a replay?
Does it mean we depend on the auto ban system to ban those guys?
Well they cant really ban someone because they 'think' they hack... there has to be enough proof to warrant a ban. But it is the support staffs judgement in the end and people can appeal that judgement and have another staff member take a look at it - I guess that is where the handful of people who got unbanned came from that saidin talked about -
radiCal_pT wrote: »Saidin what do you do when you guys get replays of a not so obvious hack?
Like some player is playing normally and he may even die at times to not let the others think he is hacking, but he really could be walling without it being obvious, that's what alot of players do, and we may think they are pro while they arent.
How do you know he is hacking by seeing a replay?
Does it mean we depend on the auto ban system to ban those guys?In replays, hackers are nearly always obvious. Even if they die during the game, you will see a waller stare at or follow things he shouldn't be able to see, whether it is invisible or behind a wall. You see 1-hit-killers do 100% damage at all times, yet rarely really aim at anyone. You see "master ghost" hackers move without their body animation moving. You see "zero weight" hackers make jumps they shouldn't even be able to with just carrying a knife. And you'll see that "zero recoil" hackers will always have a moment where their spray is a little too dead on target.
Hackers are nearly always easy to spot in replays, if you know what they could be using and what to look for to prove it.
This is why its better not to kick a hacker, unless he's obvious about it. Because the longer he plays, the more proof he'll leave in replays.
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