Self-Regulation
Comments
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He says, ignorant to the fact that we changed the rules after popular demand a week ago.Discussing it is doing something about it. But in the end, Z8Games won't do a thing. We could make a thousand valid points on this subject but nothing would get changed. Their "ego" as a company is ridiculous. I honestly believe they feel their rules and regulations are perfect, therefore set in stone. They're slaves to their own rules. Funny how that works.
Incidentally due to solid arguments presented by Denxi.Skepticalism wrote: »No we want the bust vids to stay up so people know who cheated before..and then get them out of the competitve community. Durp
WOGL and ESL have ban lists, we have user ids which you can track if someone known to cheat changes names etc.
All of the above moot, since you're not gonna check anything before starting a scrim - and since they're banned from WOGL and ESL, you won't meet them there. -
I'm pretty curious as to what the real life implementation of this would be like (though fully aware that it won't happen).
Users catching someone cheating and posting it here to gain popular opinion (in spite of public not being a factor in ban-decisions of course)?
Try users posting bust replays because they hate cheaters playing in their community. -
Essentially a ban list with video attached.Try users posting bust replays because they hate cheaters playing in their community.
Would we keep the thread open or locked?
Locked - why bother?
Open - why create hours of unnecessary work?
Deciding whether or not the bust is legitimate - who?
You can't, and integrity of replays is apparently up for questioning, so nobody can for sure. -
So who decides whether a replay is legitimate or not?Essentially a ban list with video attached.
Would we keep the thread open or locked?
Locked - why bother?
Open - why create hours of unnecessary work?
Deciding whether or not the bust is legitimate - who?
You can't, and integrity of replays is apparently up for questioning, so nobody can for sure. -
Your honestly going to bring wogls ban list into this? Half the kids banned are guess what pub stars. The whole time wogl bans some one they don't even update the damn thing. All we want is to be able to post bust vids with SOLID proof to stay up. It's not advertising a cheat at all. For you guys to say its advertising shows your stupidity. Were all tired of cheaters in the competitve community.
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Solid proof doesn't exist, its all probability.Skepticalism wrote: »Your honestly going to bring wogls ban list into this? Half the kids banned are guess what pub stars. The whole time wogl bans some one they don't even update the damn thing. All we want is to be able to post bust vids with SOLID proof to stay up. It's not advertising a cheat at all. For you guys to say its advertising shows your stupidity. Were all tired of cheaters in the competitve community.
Clearly you didn't understand the "cheat advertisement" argument, so I'll toss a guess as to what he meant.
The act of advertisement isn't throwing a big banner that says dxfools, its cheating and doing well.
To anyone watching that isn't too bright (face it, a lot of people) will recognize it as "oh, hes doing good, i'm gonna try that, i think its called cheats and this game is called Crossfire (google!)". -
Essentially a ban list with video attached.
Would we keep the thread open or locked? Open
Locked - why bother?
Open - why create hours of unnecessary work? How so?
Deciding whether or not the bust is legitimate - who? Each individual player who views the replay.
integrity of replays is apparently up for questioning, so nobody can for sure. Nobody can be sure about ANYTHING. Solopsism ftw.
I'm not trying to create some kind of organization here. All I'm saying is, allow the community to present evidence to itself, and allow the players to make judgements based off said evidence. -
Essentially a ban list with video attached.
Would we keep the thread open or locked?
Locked - why bother?
Open - why create hours of unnecessary work?
Deciding whether or not the bust is legitimate - who?
You can't, and integrity of replays is apparently up for questioning, so nobody can for sure.
How about this, A player presents the replay and name of the cheater to the mod with the vid. The mod decides whether or not the replay is enough. Anyways that bust vid of blackout was so blatant only person that didnt think he cheated after that was taeyon. -
Why leave it open if its up to every user to decide for himself?I'm not trying to create some kind of organization here. All I'm saying is, allow the community to present evidence to itself, and allow the players to make judgements based off said evidence.
People aren't convinced by argument.
And the unnecessary work would be obvious I thought - this "competitive community" can't regulate themselves with LFT-threads.
I don't want to imagine the shi-storm in bust threads.How about this, A player presents the replay and name of the cheater to the mod with the vid. The mod decides whether or not the replay is enough. Anyways that bust vid of blackout was so blatant only person that didnt think he cheated after that was taeyon.
We're volunteers with better things to do than satisfy public curiosity. No. -
Solid proof doesn't exist, its all probability.
Clearly you didn't understand the "cheat advertisement" argument, so I'll toss a guess as to what he meant.
The act of advertisement isn't throwing a big banner that says dxfools, its cheating and doing well.
To anyone watching that isn't too bright (face it, a lot of people) will recognize it as "oh, hes doing good, i'm gonna try that, i think its called cheats and this game is called Crossfire (google!)".
How do you figure its probability? Every bust vid has evidence they cheated. At first they say no but as we seen blackout suko datkid and many others say yea I cheated. It's a fact its not hard to find someone cheating. What's your point behind the Google thing? Your van system is the most flawed thing ever. You guys ban limes how many times and ip? He's here still. Use your brain. Even if people watch it s.d Google cheats half the time they get keyloggers. -
Why leave it open if its up to every user to decide for himself?
People aren't convinced by argument.
People who aren't directly associated with the person in question are.And the unnecessary work would be obvious I thought - this "competitive community" can't regulate themselves with LFT-threads.
I don't want to imagine the shi-storm in bust threads.
We're volunteers with better things to do than satisfy public curiosity. No.
Give me King Lord Tyrant powers. I'll regulate it. -
We're volunteers with better things to do than satisfy public curiosity. No.
A bust vid is usually not longer than 1 minute and it takes another minute to post. Just leave your xfire chats open till you feel like posting them in there. Oh wait, we dont have mods who care. Seems like wogl/esl isn't the only place lacking in that. You guys say you want a better community and the first step to that is cleaning up the trash and us as the users cant, we need your help to moderate the game as well as the forums. We present you with a reasonable suggestion and the answer is no, doesn't surprise me. -
Naw, you make a decision within 2 seconds from the "suspicious action".People who aren't directly associated with the person in question are.
Give me King Lord Tyrant powers. I'll regulate it.
Unless you're a mindless sheep, you're not going to change your mind.A bust vid is usually not longer than 1 minute and it takes another minute to post. Just leave your xfire chats open till you feel like posting them in there. Oh wait, we dont have mods who care. Seems like wogl/esl isn't the only place lacking in that.
You're right in part, of course.
I don't care about your issues, I'm not going to devote my time reviewing replays when I'm a very biased person who would just pretend to make an accurate ruling.
I'm very happy with the system the way it is now, speaking subjectively as a competitive player. -
You're right in part, of course.
I don't care about your issues, I'm not going to devote my time reviewing replays when I'm a very biased person who would just pretend to make an accurate ruling.
I'm very happy with the system the way it is now, speaking subjectively as a competitive player.
You don't care? Then demote yourself right now, wogl/esl had admins who didn't care and look at them now, in shambles, hoping to revive the competitive scene in what used to be wogl s1. If you don't care because its in echo 8 now, you'll damn sure care when its in UK server 3 Channel 8, I guarentee that. So it's handle it now or later. -
I'm a forum moderator, I'm not going to approve of something that would drown all of us in pointless work to satisfy your curiosity.You don't care? Then demote yourself right now, wogl/esl had admins who didn't care and look at them now, in shambles, hoping to revive the competitive scene in what used to be wogl s1. If you don't care because its in echo 8 now, you'll damn sure care when its in UK server 3 Channel 8, I guarentee that. So it's handle it now or later.
If you want a legitimate community, be legitimate. Spread the word. Problem solved. -
The basis for spotting a cheater in this game has and always will remain the same. Prefires, prescopes, tracing, looking at walls, so on and so fourth. How is posting a video of said actions not evidence? Obviously each video is different and must be looked at and assumptions made accordingly, but for people to say that these blatant bust videos don't prove anything...what is proof? X-Trap obviously isn't catching them if they're making it in game.
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The basis for spotting a cheater in this game has and always will remain the same. Prefires, prescopes, tracing, looking at walls, so on and so fourth. How is posting a video of said actions not evidence? Obviously each video is different and must be looked at and assumptions made accordingly, but for people to say that these blatant bust videos don't prove anything...what is proof? X-Trap obviously isn't catching them if they're making it in game.
I loled. There's x-trap bypases advertised daily. Mods like to pub uk channels tho. Not ours. -
I'm a forum moderator, I'm not going to approve of something that would drown all of us in pointless work to satisfy your curiosity.
If you want a legitimate community, be legitimate. Spread the word. Problem solved.The basis for spotting a cheater in this game has and always will remain the same. Prefires, prescopes, tracing, looking at walls, so on and so fourth. How is posting a video of said actions not evidence? Obviously each video is different and must be looked at and assumptions made accordingly, but for people to say that these blatant bust videos don't prove anything...what is proof? X-Trap obviously isn't catching them if they're making it in game.
1. Its not my curiousity, its looking for evidence like such as stated by YGRN.
2. Your a forum moderator, yes. Which means you agree in the rules stated by Z8games if you agree in the rules, this suggestion just takes it a step further by being to catch people who don't abide by the rules or get around the precautions implented by z8 such as xtrap, WOGL ac or even ESL wire. As a forum moderator, you stand by good. Being able to catch the bad in game while moderating the forums should give your volunteer work more than justice. -
I'm a forum moderator, I'm not going to approve of something that would drown all of us in pointless work to satisfy your curiosity.
If you want a legitimate community, be legitimate. Spread the word. Problem solved.
Actions over words, something no one will ever do in this game. It's just a fact. This community will stay the same as it is now.. -
Its such a simple solution thats its hard to understand why some people can't see it. First of all, we have established that posting bust vids IS not an advertisements of cheats. Secondly, I am positive that most of the competetive community will approve of having access to thses bust vids so they can know who cheats, and can scrim accordingly (meaning they won't want to play with the cheaters). With that being said, if someone cheats, it should be 1 strict your out, if someone cheats competetively, even more reason to unveil them and get them out of the community, there should be no tolerance for it. With all of that being said, I do not see why we cannot have 1. A seperate section for Discution related to cheating/cheaters in the competetive community, and 2. Moderators (not necessarily CF MODS) to either patrol that section, or approve/decline bust vids. Why can't the competetive community (like denxi said) governe itself? If no harm comes to CF in general ,why should it matter. We need change, but if no change is willing to happen, well then... IMO, you should let the CF competetive community make THEIR decision. They should be able to choose CF competetive players who would have power to approve or decline the bust vids for cheating. Those players should ones who the community agrees, are the least biased and best choice as ''moderators''. (Denxi comes to mind)
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Its such a simple solution thats its hard to understand why some people can't see it. First of all, we have established that posting bust vids IS not an advertisements of cheats. Secondly, I am positive that most of the competetive community will approve of having access to thses bust vids so they can know who cheats, and can scrim accordingly (meaning they won't want to play with the cheaters). With that being said, if someone cheats, it should be 1 strict your out, if someone cheats competetively, even more reason to unveil them and get them out of the community, there should be no tolerance for it. With all of that being said, I do not see why we cannot have 1. A seperate section for Discution related to cheating/cheaters in the competetive community, and 2. Moderators (not necessarily CF MODS) to either patrol that section, or approve/decline bust vids. Why can't the competetive community (like denxi said) governe itself? If no harm comes to CF in general ,why should it matter. We need change, but if no change is willing to happen, well then... IMO, you should let the CF competetive community make THEIR decision. They should be able to choose CF competetive players who would have power to approve or decline the bust vids for cheating. Those players should ones who the community agrees, are the least biased and best choice as ''moderators''. (Denxi comes to mind)
Well if they actually read all our posts, I'd say we have a shot at actually getting this change for our self. Funny, in the beginning I was against this, now that I actually see examples of it and such, it makes much more sense. If a four year old "burns" them self, they'll stay away from the "stove". -
So how long does it take to detect and add that hack to the system ? 1 week and 6 days ? cause the day after the update brazilians are hacking again. It would also be better if z8 would stop with these damn temp bans and give 1 strike, then a perm ip ban.
This and...
I think it would benefit Z8games in the most to incourage self regulation and add people into the crew to add these hacks to the auto-ban system. I'm sure there's more than enough people that would love to do it for little to nothing.
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First of all, we have established that posting bust vids IS not an advertisements of cheats.
4 Posts above this quote:Skepticalism wrote: »I loled. There's x-trap bypases advertised daily. Mods like to pub uk channels tho. Not ours.
No one needs to know this. But the "competitive" community gets trolled as easy as they troll the rest of the game (and themselves).
Said information is not necessary for a bust video but no doubt will come out.
Person "A" Posts Bust Video about Person "B"
Person "B" Posts rebuttal "I didn't hack, x-trap obviously didn't pick it up and I'm not currently banned in the game."
Person "C" (Entire competitive community) comes down and says "You used ____ hack and you probably used ____ bypass which was posted on ____ site yesterday."
Or at the very least proceeds to assume the person is hacking regardless, and probably spend too much time posting information about the hack or the process etc.
Person "X" who is an innocent bystander comes to this forum and sees said discussion about hacking/hackers and wonders why this kind of behavior and discussion about hacks is on an official gaming forum for this game.
What happens when someone posts a bust video that's a joke. And it wasn't a bust video, and then the rest of the thread is QQers who couldn't handle a joke?
Opening up this can of worms opens it up to be trolled as much as you all seem to think its going to legitimize some sort of anti-hacking community.
There's a reason why no official gaming forum will tolerate these kinds of posts. And there's a reason why clan sites, and competitive sites exist outside the official gaming forums.
Make up a website www.crossfirebustvideos.com and post all you want there. But this kind of actions (above) are not going to be allowed on the official Cross Fire forums.
We want to facilitate the meeting of people. But if you want to run around spending more time accusing hackers than actually playing then take that kind of discussion to another community or forum. There's no place for that on these boards. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »
Person "A" Posts Bust Video about Person "B"
Person "B" Posts rebuttal "I didn't hack, x-trap obviously didn't pick it up and I'm not currently banned in the game."
Person "C" (Entire competitive community) comes down and says "You used ____ hack and you probably used ____ bypass which was posted on ____ site yesterday."
Or at the very least proceeds to assume the person is hacking regardless, and probably spend too much time posting information about the hack or the process etc.
Person "X" who is an innocent bystander comes to this forum and sees said discussion about hacking/hackers and wonders why this kind of behavior and discussion about hacks is on an official gaming forum for this game.
If the entire competitive community knows exactly what hack, bypass, and website is being used... we've got some problems with overabundance of hack advertisement. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »4 Posts above this quote:
No one needs to know this. But the "competitive" community gets trolled as easy as they troll the rest of the game (and themselves).
Said information is not necessary for a bust video but no doubt will come out.
Person "A" Posts Bust Video about Person "B"
Person "B" Posts rebuttal "I didn't hack, x-trap obviously didn't pick it up and I'm not currently banned in the game."
Person "C" (Entire competitive community) comes down and says "You used ____ hack and you probably used ____ bypass which was posted on ____ site yesterday."
Or at the very least proceeds to assume the person is hacking regardless, and probably spend too much time posting information about the hack or the process etc.
Person "X" who is an innocent bystander comes to this forum and sees said discussion about hacking/hackers and wonders why this kind of behavior and discussion about hacks is on an official gaming forum for this game.
What happens when someone posts a bust video that's a joke. And it wasn't a bust video, and then the rest of the thread is QQers who couldn't handle a joke?
Opening up this can of worms opens it up to be trolled as much as you all seem to think its going to legitimize some sort of anti-hacking community.
There's a reason why no official gaming forum will tolerate these kinds of posts. And there's a reason why clan sites, and competitive sites exist outside the official gaming forums.
Make up a website www.crossfirebustvideos.com and post all you want there. But this kind of actions (above) are not going to be allowed on the official Cross Fire forums.
We want to facilitate the meeting of people. But if you want to run around spending more time accusing hackers than actually playing then take that kind of discussion to another community or forum. There's no place for that on these boards.
you're a very hypocritical person. If I recall, I was banned for "cheating" because of an xfire video? oh, pardon me, it was because i destroyed bruce in a scrim so you instantly came to conclusions without any evident proof, that's nice.
hope you continue working for g4box as by the time I reach adulthood I will probably have bought the company out and demoted you to a janitor (not that it's a big of a demotion from your current position)
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