Self-Regulation
Comments
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You should re-read Saidins post.
there's different factors tho, max.
like actually posting the cheats, i was thinking more along the lines of bust clips, etc.Well we're not promoting that tasty used Dx7v1.2.0.3 On his 4gb kingston flash drive that can be found at http://www.herearethecheats.com . All we're staying is that YO SAIDAN, THIS NERD JUST HIT ME THROUGH A WALL, HANDLE THAT.
exactly... it's more of letting the community knows who cheats, and not let them get away with blue murder. -
Well we're not promoting that tasty used Dx7v1.2.0.3 On his 4gb kingston flash drive that can be found at http://www.herearethecheats.com . All we're staying is that YO SAIDAN, THIS NERD JUST HIT ME THROUGH A WALL, HANDLE THAT.
That particular cheat was added to our auto ban system recently.
Handled.
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[GM]Saidin wrote: »Denxi, I'd love to expansion on your original Post.
The competitive community can regulate itself more effectively via exposure and humiliation of cheaters, if only you would let it.[GM]Saidin wrote: »Are you essentially asking why we would (or tell mods to) remove posts containing proofs/evidence of hackers?
No, I'm saying that it's stupid.[GM]Saidin wrote: »The simple response is that it's impossible to close off a certain part of the forums to only the competitive community and that posting of any hack is too tempting and too much promotion of the hack itself.
1. SF Competitive forums. A community can segregate itself if you allow it to. It already pretty much has, it's just that you guys keep forcing them to post in other sections. (http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=172688)
2. Nobody is posting hacks, only evidence of hackers.[GM]Saidin wrote: »Understand that we remove posts containing hacks not because we want to boost the reputation of the player (or make it seem like a known hacker is some sort of legit player). But we don't want people posting a hack and then the thread becoming one of the most popular threads in X forum, and subsequently have someone come here find that hack and then use it themselves.
Irrelevant, nothing here is about posting hacks, only bust vids and the like of hacker.[GM]Saidin wrote: »Posting of a hacker on these boards propagates hacking in a general sense. No video game company wants to see that kind of thing on their official boards.
I hope to that point this makes some sense anyways.
How? How does a person posting someone hacking in competitive play, and then the community RIDUCLES them for the rest of their time at w/e forum promote hacking? Hackers are all peoplewho enjoy being made fun of? -
there's different factors tho, max.
like actually posting the cheats, i was thinking more along the lines of bust clips, etc.
Bust Clips is the same thing. When I say posting a hacker, I don't mean a post that says "yo go get this hack here".
I mean "yo check out this youtube clip of this hacker".
It spreads hacks just as easy, more so because its on these forums. And as mentioned, no one wants to see that kind of thing on their forums.
Lets take a highly competitive game like Starcraft 2. While yes, it is difficult to hack Blizzards official ladder, I'm sure that someone out there has done it. If you were to post a "bust" replay or a "bust" video on the official Starcraft 2 forums I think it would be removed pretty quickly. -
The competitive community can regulate itself more effectively via exposure and humiliation of cheaters, if only you would let it.
The cheater never cares whether they have been exposed or not. See Limes, Warhawk or any other cheater that we continually remove over and over again. And that everyone knows they cheat/hack or have done so in the past.
I have seen no evidence that the few competitive players here can regulate themselves through humiliation and exposure. Not to mention that humiliation and exposure can come through plenty of other sites. If the competitive community wants to create their own community boards to gather people to play CF then no one is against that, in fact we'd even help promote that.
The fact is, if you want to use these boards you gotta play by these rules.1. SF Competitive forums. A community can segregate itself if you allow it to. It already pretty much has, it's just that you guys keep forcing them to post in other sections. (http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=172688)
I'll definitely welcome discussion on ways to improve the layout or how to get more people to the competitive side of these boards. I do believe however the Competitive Forum for CF was your idea which was given to me through the Mods which I then implemented. -
As we're well aware, being wrong doesn't mean you'll lose a discussion.Flying hippos rule the earth.
Argue long enough and the person who is right will just get tired, yet public opinion will be formed in the favor of the person being wrong.
Argument isn't very efficient evidence. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »The cheater never cares whether they have been exposed or not. See Limes, Warhawk or any other cheater that we continually remove over and over again. And that everyone knows they cheat/hack or have done so in the past.
Those aren't competitive cheaters. People who cheat stupidly obvious do it to troll, not to boost their ego by using them to win and gain false satisfaction. Troll cheaters are a) hilarious and b) completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.[GM]Saidin wrote: »I have seen no evidence that the few competitive players here can regulate themselves through humiliation and exposure.
How could you? All the bust threads are deleted before they can go anywhere. This is like you saying a while ago that I'm incapable of handling myself in an actual discussion. Just because your data pool is non-existent due to limitations applied doesn't mean that w/e you're trying to prove is true or false.[GM]Saidin wrote: »The fact is, if you want to use these boards you gotta play by these rules.
Un-needed and completely ridiculous. How can a thread about changing the rules be made by someone who doesn't acknowledge said rules?[GM]Saidin wrote: »I do believe however the Competitive Forum for CF was your idea which was given to me through the Mods which I then implemented.
It was. This means I'm King Lord Tyrant of them and I get to do what I want with them. -
As we're well aware, being wrong doesn't mean you'll lose a discussion.
Argue long enough and the person who is right will just get tired, yet public opinion will be formed in the favor of the person being wrong.
Argument isn't very efficient evidence.
It is when you use argument to point out evidence.
"Oh look, it's actually impossible in the code for footstep sound to travel that far, thus negating your defense that he heard him." -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »Bust Clips is the same thing. When I say posting a hacker, I don't mean a post that says "yo go get this hack here".
I mean "yo check out this youtube clip of this hacker".
It spreads hacks just as easy, more so because its on these forums. And as mentioned, no one wants to see that kind of thing on their forums.
Lets take a highly competitive game like Starcraft 2. While yes, it is difficult to hack Blizzards official ladder, I'm sure that someone out there has done it. If you were to post a "bust" replay or a "bust" video on the official Starcraft 2 forums I think it would be removed pretty quickly.
Once again, theres no direct link to the hack so the person who is interested in hacking would have to do the same thing the first person in the bust vid did. Pay for them and even without the bust vid, this could possibly happen so why not have the public know about this ? -
[MOD]Giggletron wrote: »Its updated when they can. If they dont have a hack, then nothing to update
So how long does it take to detect and add that hack to the system ? 1 week and 6 days ? cause the day after the update brazilians are hacking again. It would also be better if z8 would stop with these damn temp bans and give 1 strike, then a perm ip ban. -
So how long does it take to detect and add that hack to the system ? 1 week and 6 days ? cause the day after the update brazilians are hacking again. It would also be better if z8 would stop with these damn temp bans and give 1 strike, then a perm ip ban.
Temp bans are issued by the AutoBan. Perm bans are caused by repeated temp bans or reports.
Under excessive perm bans on multiple accounts or special circumstances, the player is IP banned. -
[MOD]Giggletron wrote: »Again.. you misunderstand. Theyre not deleted. Theyre moved to a place where the appropriate people can see them
If you cannot stay on topic, then leave.
I always felt it was ridiculous the competitive community isn't allowed to bring forth evidence of another member hacking, even in sanctioned events. The people who run these leagues and a majority of the MODS on this forum are too busy sitting on their high horses to do anything proactive about hacking in the competitive community. And you wonder why we takes these types of situations into our own hands. -
a majority of the MODS on this forum are too busy sitting on their high horses to do anything proactive about hacking in the competitive community. And you wonder why we takes these types of situations into our own hands.
With all do respect, deleting anything regarding hacking and bringing forth hackers is removed because that's the rules we have to follow. I didn't make the rules, but we have to abide by them as Moderators. My personal feelings towards the issue has no grounds in regards to what I have to do as a Moderator in removing it. Anyways, let's get back on track here and not argue about what wasn't meant to be argued about. -
Forgot the Z8Games forum rules are set in stone and are unable to be altered or changed when certain situations arise advocating a change. My mistake.[MOD]Polleus wrote: »With all do respect, deleting anything regarding hacking and bringing forth hackers is removed because that's the rules we have to follow. I didn't make the rules, but we have to abide by them as Moderators. My personal feelings towards the issue has no grounds in regards to what I have to do as a Moderator in removing it. Anyways, let's get back on track here and not argue about what wasn't meant to be argued about. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »With all do respect, deleting anything regarding hacking and bringing forth hackers is removed because that's the rules we have to follow. I didn't make the rules, but we have to abide by them as Moderators. My personal feelings towards the issue has no grounds in regards to what I have to do as a Moderator in removing it. Anyways, let's get back on track here and not argue about what wasn't meant to be argued about.
So basically we're supposed to let them hack until your blazing fast hack detection system works ? Yea right ... back on topic.
How can a flawed system restore itself? -
Forgot the Z8Games forum rules are set in stone and are unable to be altered or changed when certain situations arise advocating a change. My mistake.
I understand your point, trust me. But the policy about hackers and publicly ridiculing them is a policy that is set at the company level, way above our heads. I have no explanation or justification for it but we have to follow it. That's just the way it is. It may not be what you like, but neither you nor I can change it, so we just have to go with it. -
Lmao like I said you mods want proof of stuff I clearly had proof of the kid spamming a hack site. What do you guys do? O I never seen that let's delete the posts. Dumb rules are dumb. Change them. Tell me how a fkin bust video advertises a hack site? Where do we say o he's using this back from this site? Use your brains.
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Skepticalism wrote: »Lmao like I said you mods want proof of stuff I clearly had proof of the kid spamming a hack site. What do you guys do? O I never seen that let's delete the posts. Dumb rules are dumb. Change them. Tell me how a fkin bust video advertises a hack site? Where do we say o he's using this back from this site? Use your brains.
Exactly, until the staff stop hiding from the hacks they will always creep their ass into play. They need stricter rules and a better AC. Why doesnt someone just code an ac? -
You're right, neither you or I, as a single individual, can change a thing. Is that not why this topic was created though? To discuss this issue as a community? Surely the people who play this game and keep this company alive should have a say. In my opinion, there's enough people here, that if we wanted to have a voice as a whole, we could. The only problem is people are too busy worrying about themselves. Too busy feeding their egos and insulting one another rather then respecting each other. I would go as far as say this isn't a competitive "community" at all, rather a group of individuals who play this game competitively.[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I understand your point, trust me. But the policy about hackers and publicly ridiculing them is a policy that is set at the company level, way above our heads. I have no explanation or justification for it but we have to follow it. That's just the way it is. It may not be what you like, but neither you nor I can change it, so we just have to go with it. -
You're right, neither you or I, as a single individual, can change a thing. Is that not why this topic was created though? To discuss this issue as a community? Surely the people who play this game and keep this company alive should have a say. In my opinion, there's enough people here, that if we wanted to have a voice as a whole, we could. The only problem is people are too busy worrying about themselves. Too busy feeding their egos and insulting one another rather then respecting each other. I would go as far as say this isn't a competitive "community" at all, rather a group of individuals who play this game competitively.
Then instead of just talking about it, we actually get up and do something about it? -
I'm pretty curious as to what the real life implementation of this would be like (though fully aware that it won't happen).
Users posting their own replays that got them banned to try to get someone to argue in their favor in hopes of getting the ban overturned?
Users catching someone cheating and posting it here to gain popular opinion (in spite of public not being a factor in ban-decisions of course)?
GMs expected to post replays when they ban someone, and expected to know who is "competitive" (hah) and who isn't?
WOGL/ESL expected to do the same, even though they have forums on their own?
I'm sure I missed the one you actually want (because all of the above are ridiculous), so do fill in. -
Discussing it is doing something about it. But in the end, Z8Games won't do a thing. We could make a thousand valid points on this subject but nothing would get changed. Their "ego" as a company is ridiculous. I honestly believe they feel their rules and regulations are perfect, therefore set in stone. They're slaves to their own rules. Funny how that works.Then instead of just talking about it, we actually get up and do something about it?
![[dot]](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/27/navatar_2942827.gif){kind=avatar}
![[MOD]Polleus](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/7/navatar_8918107.gif){kind=avatar}
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