Ghost Mode Discussion - KEEP IT CLEAN
Comments
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IudiceScar wrote: »Maybe it's just the fact GR has so much more equipment available now. New smoke grenades, explosive grenades, weapons (silenced and not silenced), and maybe in general it's just easier for GR.
No exclusive weapons or advantages for being a Ghost now.
New melee weapons, GR-* BL-*
New guns, GR++ BL-
New Grenades (lethal and nonlethal), GR+ BL-
*if it doesn't help the team, it hurts them
We need more exclusive BL weapons while playing Ghost Mode. BD and Noise Down aren't enough.
Most Agreed ...
Plus ...
we can see that GR Also do need equipment more than skills to kill ghost
eg: headphones , It's a must u can get easily , Vol. at Max. Start walking and here u go ...
and they can learn pinpoint to be perfect ...
But ghosts needs more than this ..
they need skills more than equipment
eg: B-Hop , It really took u lots of time to learn perfect b-hop even if u did sometimes u fail on stairs or something ... (Must be a mistake)
So i think that GR can reach Perfection easily , But Ghost .. ..
Dont think so .. :cool:
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honestly, I think part of it is hi-fi sound systems, a year ago nobody gave a rats ass about what sound card they had in their system, now i have a THX certified one, that extra fidelity, and the options to alter the sound, make it a lot easier to pinpoint.
the second part is, its a lot easier to be unpredictable as GR than as BL. as BL, maps tend to have 1, maybe two, and if you are lucky 3 ways to get out of base, and from there is not a whole lot you can do after that.
silenced weapons to come into play a LOT. i think that if the sound of a bullet hitting something were increased 50X, then it would be much more realistic, and promote team play. don't increase the sound of the gun, but increase the sound of the shots hitting something. -
i would love to play gm without bhop. makes u feel more like a ninja AND gives the noobs more of a chance. the "hold breath" option doesnt make sense, it only leads to more spray and its too OP.
this is what came to my mind:
- breath is hearable, but no pinpointing possible *
- bhop not possible
- footsteps are louder and can be heard farther while running
- invisible while crouching or walking with one of the 2 options:
1) invisible cloak f******s randomly from time to time
2) invisible cloak can be charged while standing still, and activated for x seconds while moving slow
GR must have a chance to recognize a ghost in range, otherwise its unfair. with this option ghosts are able to sneak up large groups of GRs. if they dont spray the crap out of it.
*pinpointing is still possible with movement, but not with turning your head. so u have to walk around the ghost before knowing his exact position. -
This would turn GM into nothing more then a spray mode, and do you realize this discussion is about balancing and making it easier for BL? You're talking as if BL needs to be nerfed..i would love to play gm without bhop. makes u feel more like a ninja AND gives the noobs more of a chance. the "hold breath" option doesnt make sense, it only leads to more spray and its too OP.
this is what came to my mind:
- breath is hearable, but no pinpointing possible *
- bhop not possible
- footsteps are louder and can be heard farther while running
- invisible while crouching or walking with one of the 2 options:
1) invisible cloak f******s randomly from time to time
2) invisible cloak can be charged while standing still, and activated for x seconds while moving slow
GR must have a chance to recognize a ghost in range, otherwise its unfair. with this option ghosts are able to sneak up large groups of GRs. if they dont spray the crap out of it.
*pinpointing is still possible with movement, but not with turning your head. so u have to walk around the ghost before knowing his exact position. -
if they spray they will end up without ammo very fast. i try to balance in such a way, that BL should be able to kill GR without perfect bhop, but GR should have a chance of realizing an nearby ghost.This would turn GM into nothing more then a spray mode, and do you realize this discussion is about balancing and making it easier for BL? You're talking as if BL needs to be nerfed..
lets face it: a newbie bl\gr player has zero chance of killing a better player. -
Without bhop BL can't win, they can barely win as it is...if they spray they will end up without ammo very fast. i try to balance in such a way, that BL should be able to kill GR without perfect bhop, but GR should have a chance of realizing an nearby ghost.
What does this have to do with the gummiebear to jellybean ratio in the eastern USA?lets face it: a newbie bl\gr player has zero chance of killing a better player. -
thats why i suggested to make pinpointing harder. takes alot of pressure from the ghosts, because they arent immediatly shot at, if they rest for a second near a pinpointerWithout bhop BL can't win, they can barely win as it is...
its about balancing so bl have a better chance of winning. but also about balancing the chances of newb vs pro.What does this have to do with the gummiebear to jellybean ratio in the eastern USA?
in a gunfight even the biggest noob can kill a pro with his spray if he gets lucky. in gm a noob ghost has no chance of getting that close to a GR, and a GR noob without sound is practically dead if someone can bhop. -
I play as a GR and as a BL and I must say ghosts have the advantage over the pinpointers in a serious scrim.
They just have to plant the bomb and Bhop from one place to another(assuming they have breath down).
One ghost at a time to kill the defuser and the round is yours.
I play mostly as GR but that is the truth. -
thats why i suggested to make pinpointing harder. takes alot of pressure from the ghosts, because they arent immediatly shot at, if they rest for a second near a pinpointer
its about balancing so bl have a better chance of winning. but also about balancing the chances of newb vs pro.
in a gunfight even the biggest noob can kill a pro with his spray if he gets lucky. in gm a noob ghost has no chance of getting that close to a GR, and a GR noob without sound is practically dead if someone can bhop.
If you can't move while invisible they can't even get near GR, without bhop GM is a boring version of red light green light.
The goal is to balance the mode so those of equal skill levels can win on either side, not make it easier for noobs to beat a better player. In a competitive game the better player is there to show he's better, that's the entire point... -
The goal is to balance the mode so those of equal skill levels can win on either side, not make it easier for noobs to beat a better player. In a competitive game the better player is there to show he's better, that's the entire point...
so without changing too much of the current style of gm i would say, just give the ghosts more hp. so they may fail/miss 1-2 times and still get away alive -
lawl at kids who think that GR will run out of ammo. if you have a 35-140 in your main gun, and 9-36 or more in your sub, you can easily go a round spraying a shot every .6 seconds or so. especially if it doesn't go the whole length, or you pick up dead teammates guns.
I think that the main problem is the beeping of the C4. if you didn't get your **** owned from everyone on half the map every-time you attempted to plant, then it would be balanced.
take out all C4 sounds, and i think it will balance nicely. -
You either:1g0tN0skillZ wrote: »I play as a GR and as a BL and I must say ghosts have the advantage over the pinpointers in a serious scrim.
They just have to plant the bomb and Bhop from one place to another(assuming they have breath down).
One ghost at a time to kill the defuser and the round is yours.
I play mostly as GR but that is the truth.
1. Dont have a good team at all.
2. Were playing against people much higher than your skill level.
there has already been a solution for this: have your whole team slash your axes while bhopping around near the site. it makes PPing and hearing the planting sound almost impossible.take out all C4 sounds, and i think it will balance nicely.
also: that would mean no defuse sound, which would make GR yet again even more OP. -
You either:
1. Dont have a good team at all.
2. Were playing against people much higher than your skill level.
there has already been a solution for this: have your whole team slash your axes while bhopping around near the site. it makes PPing and hearing the planting sound almost impossible.
also: that would mean no defuse sound, which would make GR yet again even more OP.
ok, then remove only the planting sounds. and everyone jumping around with axe will make the spray unbelievable, and unless the team is really, really, really coherent
, the planter will flee the spray. -
ok, then remove only the planting sounds. and everyone jumping around with axe will make the spray unbelievable, and unless the team is really, really, really coherent
, the planter will flee the spray.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm no. that will change one aspect of the challenge, but its probably the easiest challenge to overcome. either have your team slash, or clear the site before planting. -
ok, then remove only the planting sounds. and everyone jumping around with axe will make the spray unbelievable, and unless the team is really, really, really coherent
, the planter will flee the spray.
I wouldn't really call it fair if the sounds were removen, rather have the sound lowered a bit. Because it's noisy as heck at the moment and I find it fairly easy to pinpoint people as it is. -
As a fairly experienced GM player, playing for about 2 years now... (NOT PRO) I thought I'd offer some comments.
I understand this discussion is not about public matches, bear with me
A. I agree that silenced weapons play a role, but, I think that the major problem here is the hackers that tend to thrive on GR. If you were to honestly think about it, we haven't seen ghosts shooting guns in quite some time. Think about it: Which would be more appealing to a hacker? Seeing everyone, and using a gun? Or seeing everyone and using a knife? Now subtract the "seeing everyone" part and replace it with speedhacking. In my opinion, the answer remains the same: GR is a favored side.
B. After much hacking, I think that many of the BL ghosts, (who, for the sake of this argument understand pinpointing) just give up and attempt to win on GR- After all, who wants their KDR ruined by a hacker?
C. As a result of B, I also believe that some ghosts, such as myself, have become paranoid about hackers, and don't join BL, simply because of the fear of, well, getting owned illegally.
D. Finally, on a slight tangent... Some of those ghosts mentioned in C do go back to BL, to find that their skills have degraded seriously. For example, I was once playing a match, and I foolishly QQ'd about a player on GR, for he had killed me rather peculiarly several times. I then pressed [TAB] and realized that he was from a reputable clan, his ping was low (it was in the 20s), and he had a foil bar.
In conclusion... GR should be able to keep silenced weapons. If it really matters that much, then perhaps Z8 could add a "No Silenced Weapons" limitation for scrimmages.(possibly for public matches too, if necessary.)
TL;DR? Hackshackshackshacks, ghosts=paranoid, ghosts lose practice, silenced weapons:keep, add limitation rule for GR side in scrims.(possibly pubs) -
GM in a pub (GR side):
People get RPK's cause they think they'll run out of ammo.
They spray EVERY corner that they find suspicious.
The few good people with silenced weapons+pin point skills leave.
So this is how BL wins:
Shovels, Katanas and Kukri's.
Lag normally above 200 ping makes them invincible.
Armor.
Breathe down+foot step down (doubt it helps since every other player sprays).
That's why I hate GM in pubs, to be honest, that's why I've quit GM.
I wanna play for fun but certain kids don't let me to. I need to play competitive to test my headset/GM skills (which I hate).
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I think it is far easier to coordinate a GR team than a BL one. The reason is simple: BL can't expect to win frequently if they go hunting for kills. I've been in drafts, scrims, top GM clans and it's the same thing every time: we simply aren't coordinated enough when we're ghosts.
If the BL team regroups, wait for smoke to clear out, have their best bhoppers scout a bomb site without getting close enough for breath, all scramble in unity, everyone being assigned a spot to ambush the eventual rotating GR players, plant and be disciplined enough not to go hunting for heads, then yeah they will have a very decent shot at winning, every single round.
But that's not what I've seen. There's always people not listening, people relying on their skill alone, people trying to top frag for bragging rights. Like I said it is easier to discipline people on GR side since even if they stand pretty idle, chances are they will get some kills. The ghosts are coming at them, not the other way around.
And like Utilize said: whoever wins the psychological battle in the first rounds will have the best chance at winning the bout. -
Are you talking about pubs? In pubs everybody rushes in and usually the guys with Kukri/Katana/Shovel, armor, 200 ping stay alive and win the round.Dagnastier wrote: »I think it is far easier to coordinate a GR team than a BL one. The reason is simple: BL can't expect to win frequently if they go hunting for kills. I've been in drafts, scrims, top GM clans and it's the same thing every time: we simply aren't coordinated enough when we're ghosts.
If the BL team regroups, wait for smoke to clear out, have their best bhoppers scout a bomb site without getting close enough for breath, all scramble in unity, everyone being assigned a spot to ambush the eventual rotating GR players, plant and be disciplined enough not to go hunting for heads, then yeah they will have a very decent shot at winning, every single round.
But that's not what I've seen. There's always people not listening, people relying on their skill alone, people trying to top frag for bragging rights. Like I said it is easier to discipline people on GR side since even if they stand pretty idle, chances are they will get some kills. The ghosts are coming at them, not the other way around.
And like Utilize said: whoever wins the psychological battle in the first rounds will have the best chance at winning the bout.
GR just splits up and runs spraying. -
You either:
1. Dont have a good team at all.
2. Were playing against people much higher than your skill level.
Dude I think my 3.5 kdr speaks for itself.
I know what I´m talking about. With good players on your side you can coordinate easily a BL team.
There are so many options, for example:
having one player without breath down, he goes near the Pinpointer and starts bhoping near him, two other ghosts go there and slash him from behind(he hears more sound from the player who doesn´t have breath down).
I play way better as GR than BL but ghosts have the advantage. -
Katty_Perry wrote: »Are you talking about pubs? In pubs everybody rushes in and usually the guys with Kukri/Katana/Shovel, armor, 200 ping stay alive and win the round.
GR just splits up and runs spraying.
"I've been in drafts, scrims, top GM clans and it's the same thing every time: we simply aren't coordinated enough when we're ghosts."
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