Things that need to be said and heard - Part 1
Comments
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Bloodyfire. wrote: »Exactly my point. Mods are mods because they are supposed to be the ones who help the GMs look over the forums and help out. Just having "elites" to post in a forum does not seem reasonable to me since they aren't really helping out everyone else on the forum.
It's not like all Elite members will have their name [ELITE]Hi, for example. They'll just be in a user group. We never said that this was going to be a "mini mod" crew. -
Too much smartness on this thread...
You guys are making my brain hurt.We all know what happens when I get bored at work
I like to create dreadfully long, but usually applicable threads. I just want to share some personal thoughts, opinions, advice if you will on certain community subjects that people need to hear even though it's painfully obvious or common sense, and especially if its not. Please, I respectfully ask if you are not into this subject or do not feel like committing the time to read it, do not comment on it. There's no need for rude or sarcastic comments.
I. Debates are good for the community- Debates are a great form of expression and self-disclosure. Of course they should be closed down if they get personal, but let heated debates happens. No one quits a community because it’s too active with debates and arguments, they quit when it gets boring.
- Fierce open disagreements help create the principles of a community. It counters the sheep mentality and opens the door for individuals to each stand up for their own thoughts and opinions within the community.
- The most trouble-causing users want attention and recognition. They want to show that you can’t control them. They want to make known their unhappiness and injustices. Don’t give them the time of day to do this. Don’t mention them in the community. Don’t be drawn into discussions about why they were banned. They were banned for a reason and that reason usually is the fact that they broke the community guidelines. It really is as simple as that.
- Having an open community can result in a very high number of new member registrations, but this won’t always mean you will have active, engaged members.
- The more exclusive you make the community, the more attractive it becomes. Human nature takes flight here as we always seem to want something more when we can't always have it. Aim instead for quality over quantity. Change the perception of this community from a commodity to a privilege. Make members earn the right to join, and earn the right to stay.
- It’s an aggressive and risky action, but it doesn’t have to last forever. If you don’t think exclusive, closed communities can work, read up on how Facebook works
Excellent! I even ate popcorn and drank soda when reading this. Just...
Excellent.
By the way, that post ain't long, but it was too damn good. Make some more whenever you're bored again.
:rolleyes: -
Ah, but the point would be to inspire threads talking about the same subject in the public forums. Something in the same-ish category as prediction threads. Places for the public to share their opinion without actually "intruding" on the subject at hand.
And actually just having the titles isn't a bad idea either. I'd still like to see a separate forum section, but I can see that working as well.
Another argument would be not everyone would benefit from the discussions while everyone benefits from mods cleaning up the forums. What could be a fix would be have the regular Off-Topic section with a sub-forum for Intellectual Discussions but everyone can still post in addition having those Top Contributor and Expert ranks so their opinions will be looked at differently. -
While the forums were down:
[15:49] Polleus[oL] (polleus): What i was GOING to say...in my honest opinion... on the issue of invisibility... I would say yes, BECAUSE - Making it public would defeat the entire purpose I suggested it for. Exclusivity. People would know its there, but they would be able to see the threads. Otherwise someone like tasty limes could simply read it, copy it and make it a public troll... when maybe we didn't want to have it public.
[15:49] Us3r [oL] (efak10): they are as stable as a jelly
[15:49] Polleus[oL] (polleus): *would not be able to see
[15:49] Us3r [oL] (efak10): yeah polleus, that's my thought
[15:49] <Bloodyfire (visualfps) (Power User) has entered the room>
[15:49] Polleus[oL] (polleus): We may want to have a private discussion, THEN address the rest of the community with it
[15:49] Bloodyfire (visualfps): Hm?
[15:49] Polleus[oL] (polleus): AH
[15:49] Polleus[oL] (polleus): RUN
[15:50] Denxi[oL] (colossalkoala): Forums r down
[15:50] Denxi[oL] (colossalkoala): So we talk in here
[15:50] Bloodyfire (visualfps): I noticed.
[15:50] Polleus[oL] (polleus): repaste for bloody to debate
[15:50] Denxi[oL] (colossalkoala): Question is, would it have the major effect on the community that having a public viewed one would? -
Bloodyfire. wrote: »Another argument would be not everyone would benefit from the discussions while everyone benefits from mods cleaning up the forums. What could be a fix would be have the regular Off-Topic section with a sub-forum for Intellectual Discussions but everyone can still post in addition having those Top Contributor and Expert ranks so their opinions will be looked at differently.
That would work as long as the section was moderated much more strictly than the other forum sections. -
That would work as long as the section was moderated much more strictly than the other forum sections.
After thinking about that, I do agree Bloodyfire's suggestion would work. Heavy moderation would be ESSENTIAL to its success. Not sure if 24/7 moderation would be possible for such a public discussion. -
I agree with them. Let's wait for Saidin to post.After thinking about that, I do agree Bloodyfire's suggestion would work. Heavy moderation would be ESSENTIAL to its success. Not sure if 24/7 moderation would be possible for such a public discussion.
Fortunately some of the current moderators would be interested in some of the discussion that might go on there and are always looking for people to talk to that aren't idiots so it is a possibility. -
Bloodyfire. wrote: »Fortunately some of the current moderators would be interested in some of the discussion that might go on there and are always looking for people to talk to that aren't idiots so it is a possibility.
Some sort of "Top Contributor" or awards system as you said should be put in place though if we're going with a Public Forum. Going back to the original, sad but true point, that simple incentives to motivate the users could go a long way. -
Idealing, we shouldn't even be discussing this if everyone was mature enough to handle everything that goes on and select certain topics to contribute too instead of posting everywhere with anything or if there was more moderation with a better system for banning and keeping them banned.
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Bloodyfire. wrote: »Idealing, we shouldn't even be discussing this if everyone was mature enough to handle everything that goes on and select certain topics to contribute too instead of posting everywhere with anything or if there was more moderation with a better system for banning and keeping them banned.
But we can't control the amount nor the maturity of the forumers that decide to play our game and be active on our forums, can we? -
You don't get this.
We can't control who comes in. Only the mods can police them, but they can always make new accounts or change their IPs.
No, you don't get this. If they sign up for the forums, they are forumers. Each one of us chooses how one decides to represent themselves on the forums. Meaning, we (the forumers) choose how we represent ourselves and if done so in a correct manner, a system as discussed earlier in the thread won't be needed if everyone at least pretends to post in a respectful, mature way. -
Bloodyfire. wrote: »No, you don't get this. If they sign up for the forums, they are forumers. Each one of us chooses how one decides to represent themselves on the forums. Meaning, we (the forumers) choose how we represent ourselves and if done so in a correct manner, a system as discussed earlier in the thread won't be needed if everyone at least pretends to post in a respectful, mature way.
We clearly know that there will always be kids, and that we all don't have the power nor do they have the will to act respectful, much less mature. Take any forum, such as Adobe's forum. There ARE trolls, that get banned daily, but there are people who are just as immature. -
Bloodyfire. wrote: »No, you don't get this. If they sign up for the forums, they are forumers. Each one of us chooses how one decides to represent themselves on the forums. Meaning, we (the forumers) choose how we represent ourselves and if done so in a correct manner, a system as discussed earlier in the thread won't be needed if everyone at least pretends to post in a respectful, mature way.
Hi is speaking on an individual level, you're speaking on a group level.
Different things.
Also, if the tag thing ended up getting pushed through, IMO the deciding factors would be posts in the Discussion Section, Guides Section, Suggestions Section, Fanworks Section (Possibly), and Barracks Section. -
Do they not decide to troll though? I am saying we wouldn't have to do anything if everyone had common sense to abide by the rules, be respectful, and be mature. Hell, I was a kid when I started playing this game, still am.We clearly know that there will always be kids, and that we all don't have the power nor do they have the will to act respectful, much less mature. Take any forum, such as Adobe's forum. There ARE trolls, that get banned daily, but there are people who are just as immature.
The individuals coming to the community make it a group thing. Here is a quote once stated by a superior individual:Hi is speaking on an individual level, you're speaking on a group level.
Different things.[14:02] Denxi[oL] (colossalkoala): No, miscommunication means everyone loses =\ -
Bloodyfire. wrote: »Do they not decide to troll though? I am saying we wouldn't have to do anything if everyone had common sense to abide by the rules, be respectful, and be mature. Hell, I was a kid when I started playing this game, still am.
The individuals coming to the community make it a group thing. Here is a quote once stated by a superior individual:
Ahh, I see what you're getting at.
That miscommunication of ours, kind of failed.
Oh well. I still think we need this, not for the benefit of us, but for the benefit of the greater good, which is a good forum. -
There's a lot of stuff in here that is quite difficult to discuss without long thought out answers. Since I'm not in a position to make those I'll add a couple things.
First off, the group mentality has to be considered. But it is up to the individual to set the example. If you want the community to improve, start by asking yourself "is this worth posting". If you come up with the answer "no, I'm probably going to get infracted", then don't press the enter button.
The mods are leaders, but they aren't always leaders of discussion. Unfortunately its because they end up having to be enforcers too often. Mods, in the past, have been somewhat chosen based on how they stand out in the community. But then they become mods, and we need the help with the trolls and they end up being enforcers. We've been lucky because the group of mods we have has no problem doing this.
But then we get a few mods who are trying to branch out and do a few new things and interact with the community and a lot of people crap all over them because of it.
Another thing to discuss is the consolidation of some of the forums. Denxi has brought up putting together some sort of Competitive section. I think that will definitely happen sooner rather than later. But is there any way we can eliminate the amount of forums and sub forums? It might help with the whole enforcing aspect as it is more likely a random thread will be let go instead of moved around.
But then that would have to be dealt by you guys, with a random threads from random people in a forum like say, the barracks.
I'm throwing around ideas and digressing, its very difficult to change things on the forums both from a technological standpoint, but also from a social standpoint. The forums house a lot of people. And the game has a lot of people playing it. Finding the ground to make some of these things happen while still pleasing the general public is difficult.
It comes down to the (somewhat negative for us?) fact that if you wanted a private area to discuss things, then make your own forum. While that sounds blunt, the idea of this private forum is there, but what does it accomplish as far as actual content goes. We don't need yet another forum where 5 people can debate the merits of something that is too difficult to get changed in the game in the first place. Changing things in the game is an open concept, but is a slow process. Much slower than a user in a private forum expecting some sort of staff response every day is expecting.
I digress a bit here. But please continue the conversation! -
I don't understand the point about moving around and letting go, can you please clarify when you get a chance? However the good news is that something where we can discuss more advanced topics might be put into play.[GM]Saidin wrote: »Another thing to discuss is the consolidation of some of the forums. Denxi has brought up putting together some sort of Competitive section. I think that will definitely happen sooner rather than later. But is there any way we can eliminate the amount of forums and sub forums? It might help with the whole enforcing aspect as it is more likely a random thread will be let go instead of moved around.
It comes down to the (somewhat negative for us?) fact that if you wanted a private area to discuss things, then make your own forum. While that sounds blunt, the idea of this private forum is there, but what does it accomplish as far as actual content goes. We don't need yet another forum where 5 people can debate the merits of something that is too difficult to get changed in the game in the first place. Changing things in the game is an open concept, but is a slow process. Much slower than a user in a private forum expecting some sort of staff response every day is expecting.
The section we are discussing isn't just about stuff as far as CF goes like weapons, maps, etc, it will be a place where we can discuss knowledgable topics from how Earth was made to Electronics. Take WOGLs section as an example: http://www.wogl.org/forums/intelligent-discussion/. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »First off, the group mentality has to be considered. But it is up to the individual to set the example.
And this is specifically what I was getting at earlier, and why separation of some kind needs to occur in order to change the average user's mentality. It's hard to shift through the crap to find the good stuff, and eventually the crap starts to look better because of the sheer amount. -
Bloodyfire. wrote: »I don't understand the point about moving around and letting go, can you please clarify when you get a chance? However the good news is that something where we can discuss more advanced topics might be put into play.
The section we are discussing isn't just about stuff as far as CF goes like weapons, maps, etc, it will be a place where we can discuss knowledgable topics from how Earth was made to Electronics. Take WOGLs section as an example: http://www.wogl.org/forums/intelligent-discussion/.
Except without oL just quoting articles and not adding his own oppinion on the articles subject.
Always made me mad
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TASTYLEMONNN wrote: »one of the main reasons debates turn into troll threads are because some people don't have the mental capacity to understand that they lost "said" debate.
Which is the reason we need "said" forum. But sadly, that's not going to happen for reasons aforementioned.
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