Things that need to be said and heard - Part 1
Comments
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Which is the reason we need "said" forum. But sadly, that's not going to happen for reasons aforementioned.
I have a vBulletin 4 copy (legal of course) sitting on my desktop. Such an outside forum could be possible, if we had to take it that far.There's been alot of articles and guides i've wanted to release to the public, but haven't because of the users on the forums.
I would be honored to have such articles and guides if we ever were to create an outside forum. -
-
imo there is no need for another section or another forum for the "intelligent." The problem lies within MODs being too lenient/not taking care of the forums all the time. And that's understandable they are humans and some may be biased but i'm pretty sure if more people followed by the rules the forum would turn into a much better community.
Yes i like to speak the truth and sometimes the truth hurts; i don't "troll." this forum isn't meant to be like 1984 by George Orwell. there will be rules broken from time to time and i think these rules need to be dealt with higher consequences.
once again there is no need for a separate section like denxi addressed; it will lead to a greater separation of the community. The only thing that has to be done is discipline the forumers and place stricter rules for them to follow. -
I understand your points and your side of the view.
Anyhow, Saidin shot down the idea of our own forum subsection.
Now it's time for dedicated people to make their own forum.
But who is?
Moderators should be stricter, removing posts more often, like many others said. But another problem is the ALT accounts created to troll. -
imo there is no need for another section or another forum for the "intelligent." The problem lies within MODs being too lenient/not taking care of the forums all the time. And that's understandable they are humans and some may be biased but i'm pretty sure if more people followed by the rules the forum would turn into a much better community.
Yes i like to speak the truth and sometimes the truth hurts; i don't "troll." this forum isn't meant to be like 1984 by George Orwell. there will be rules broken from time to time and i think these rules need to be dealt with higher consequences.
once again there is no need for a separate section like denxi addressed; it will lead to a greater separation of the community. The only thing that has to be done is discipline the forumers and place stricter rules for them to follow.
That doesn't change the outlook the players have on the game/community, and doesn't improve anything.
We want to make a BETTER bucket, not just patch up the old one. -
That doesn't change the outlook the players have on the game/community, and doesn't improve anything.
We want to make a BETTER bucket, not just patch up the old one.
The only way to change this would be to improve the game itself. half of the community makes posts about some lame aspect of the game frequently. you cannot just get rid of these people considering these are the people who make up the community whether you like it or not.
there is a saying...
to the world you're just one person but to one person you're the world.
this may have a vague interpretation within the guidelines of an fps but it still applies. get rid of just 1 person and it won't change much for the community. but if you separate everyone then the community will just drastically change whether it be for the good or the bad. usually separation is not good though
now that i think of it it's probably a bad example to use but w/e. The jist of my idea is clear -
The only way to change this would be to improve the game itself. half of the community makes posts about some lame aspect of the game frequently. you cannot just get rid of these people considering these are the people who make up the community whether you like it or not.
there is a saying...
to the world you're just one person but to one person you're the world.
this may have a vague interpretation within the guidelines of an fps but it still applies. get rid of just 1 person and it won't change much for the community. but if you separate everyone then the community will just drastically change whether it be for the good or the bad. usually separation is not good though
now that i think of it it's probably a bad example to use but w/e. The jist of my idea is clear
You've mis-read the thread. This isn't about getting people to discuss different things/get rid of them, it's to inspire people to change the way they view each other's ideas. -
You've mis-read the thread. This isn't about getting people to discuss different things/get rid of them, it's to inspire people to change the way they view each other's ideas.
somewhere along these pages you guys were discussing about separating the forums between the "intelligent" and the "not so intelligent."
To me that implied that the topics being discussed including the responses about those topics made the community stupid, for lack of a better word. Someone wanted to separate these people from the rest of the community who have a say regarding topics that actually apply outside this game. Not willing to re-read the thread to see who it was.
these topics include everything besides the game obviously which is why i made the post about people crying on the forums over game mechanics that cannot be controlled by the gamers. improve the game, place stricter rules forcing players to obey them. All of this will lead to a better community. you can still have your "intelligent" discussions on the forums without these trolls or "unintelligent" people ruining the threads. -
somewhere along these pages you guys were discussing about separating the forums between the "intelligent" and the "not so intelligent."
To me that implied that the topics being discussed including the responses about those topics made the community stupid, for lack of a better word. Someone wanted to separate these people from the rest of the community who have a say regarding topics that actually apply outside this game. Not willing to re-read the thread to see who it was.
Read my original post, 3rd page iirc. You assumed the wrong motive :P -
somewhere along these pages you guys were discussing about separating the forums between the "intelligent" and the "not so intelligent."
I honestly don't remember all 10 pages of the discussion. However I can tell you my original intent was not to separate the smart and not so smart. It was to provide a kind of "motivation" that is sometimes sadly necessary to push users to want to contribute in a more positive manner, set a good example, etc. Small things that only provide a little push to lightly nudge users in that direction. So much that the users end up wanting to help out and contribute without even realizing it. Giving out small incentives gives users something to aspire to or a goal to reach, which is what I believe is lacking at this point. There is not a lot of real motivation within this community.
Hence the point of Saidin's posts highlighting the "forum benefits" such as signatures, group privileges, etc., however temporary they may be. Sadly, I'm sure MyAWM, you can agree that at this present time, 3 out of 5 people would not openly contribute and want to help this community without getting something in return. That's human nature at it's worst. The point is to provide small incentives to send them in that direction of wanting to help, not so much for the incentives, but eventually just because they have come to realize positive is better than negative; Mature is better than immature; Contributing is better than causing trouble, etc.
The separation of forums discussion was an idea simply being thrown around amongst the debating. The idea would have been to allow a separate forum subsection within Z8Games for such members that have earned the right to use. A lot of pros and cons were weighed in on this subject, such as users viewing it as discrimination or feeling unjustly treated as not ALL users would get to use it. Pros such as allowing "intelligent" conversation (this is where the intelligent came in to play) without the ordinary day-to-day nuisances of "tl;dr" or "cool story bro" and general posts that mess up the flow of the discussion.
It wasn't really separating the intelligent people from the rest. It was suggested as a means for uninterrupted, intelligent discussion that didn't need the constant moderation of the ordinary forums. Such people in this group would be selected for a reason to engage new ideas, deep discussions, etc. Definitely pros and cons to this suggestion. Saidin has spoken on this and for this to happen, we would pretty much have to make a forum outside of the Z8Games community, which honestly defeats the purpose of the idea altogether. We want unity, not separation.
We want to encourage intelligent participation in day-to-day forum threads. As I have said before, sometimes the only way to inject some motivation into a community is to provide a system of recognition or some sort of rewards/incentives system that will open the door to allow users to aspire to such incentives. Such aspirations could encourage better behavior, more discussion threads, more suggestions from the community, etc. I think, even though some incentives being short term, could provide a foundation to re-build the community on, for a stronger future. Yes, I am one of the crazy people who believe that Crossfire and its community has a great future :-O -
I honestly don't remember all 10 pages of the discussion. However I can tell you my original intent was not to separate the smart and not so smart. It was to provide a kind of "motivation" that is sometimes sadly necessary to push users to want to contribute in a more positive manner, set a good example, etc. Small things that only provide a little push to lightly nudge users in that direction. So much that the users end up wanting to help out and contribute without even realizing it. Giving out small incentives gives users something to aspire to or a goal to reach, which is what I believe is lacking at this point. There is not a lot of real motivation within this community.
Hence the point of Saidin's posts highlighting the "forum benefits" such as signatures, group privileges, etc., however temporary they may be. Sadly, I'm sure MyAWM, you can agree that at this present time, 3 out of 5 people would not openly contribute and want to help this community without getting something in return. That's human nature at it's worst. The point is to provide small incentives to send them in that direction of wanting to help, not so much for the incentives, but eventually just because they have come to realize positive is better than negative; Mature is better than immature; Contributing is better than causing trouble, etc.
The separation of forums discussion was an idea simply being thrown around amongst the debating. The idea would have been to allow a separate forum subsection within Z8Games for such members that have earned the right to use. A lot of pros and cons were weighed in on this subject, such as users viewing it as discrimination or feeling unjustly treated as not ALL users would get to use it. Pros such as allowing "intelligent" conversation (this is where the intelligent came in to play) without the ordinary day-to-day nuisances of "tl;dr" or "cool story bro" and general posts that mess up the flow of the discussion.
It wasn't really separating the intelligent people from the rest. It was suggested as a means for uninterrupted, intelligent discussion that didn't need the constant moderation of the ordinary forums. Such people in this group would be selected for a reason to engage new ideas, deep discussions, etc. Definitely pros and cons to this suggestion. Saidin has spoken on this and for this to happen, we would pretty much have to make a forum outside of the Z8Games community, which honestly defeats the purpose of the idea altogether. We want unity, not separation.
We want to encourage intelligent participation in day-to-day forum threads. As I have said before, sometimes the only way to inject some motivation into a community is to provide a system of recognition or some sort of rewards/incentives system that will open the door to allow users to aspire to such incentives. Such aspirations could encourage better behavior, more discussion threads, more suggestions from the community, etc. I think, even though some incentives being short term, could provide a foundation to re-build the community on, for a stronger future. Yes, I am one of the crazy people who believe that Crossfire and its community has a great future :-O
the thing is most of the people who play CF do not view the forums. Of the 10% or so that do 80% or so of those are immature kids who don't care about what they say. This is a game after all. You cannot encourage a 14 year old online to engage in an intelligent conversation or at least one that stays on topic. It's the way the forumers were brought up irl and has nothing to do with changing them here cause it's simply impossible.
note: of course my statistics are made up
but i would say there are only about half a dozen forumers who post frequently that will be willing to engage in meaningful conversations. The others simply don't care unless there are naked females involved.
you can just as easily make an oovoo video chat or xfire chat between these 6 people and upload it on the site. i guarantee you most people wouldn't even bother opening it. also most people don't want to sit on the computer discussing topics with people they will never see in their life. for some reason i keep on getting dragged into them although i try my best to stay away from wasting more time on this game. but w/e everyone has a different mentality. the point is the people who don't care now won't care in 1 month or two for that matter but they'll learn eventually
with that said. it's a game... you're bound to have some kids who are messed up in the head trying to ruin everything. the only thing that can be done would be to prohibit their usage on the forums/more MOD activity. You can still have your "intelligent" chats on the forums as long as the garbage posts are being disposed like they were nicely on this thread. -
This is a game after all. You cannot encourage a 14 year old online to engage in an intelligent conversation or at least one that stays on topic. It's the way the forumers were brought up irl and has nothing to do with changing them here cause it's simply impossible.
MyAWM, meet Dag. -
MyAWM, meet Dag.
i've met him, and?
did i not say it's the way the kids are brought up. i know i could have made a decent argument when i was 14 mainly due to me being around much older men discussing politics etc as well as motivation in school. But then you have those people who just don't give a sh1t. i'm pretty sure everyone met at least 1 person in their life of that stature. Well this forum is in fact infested with many of those kids primarily because it's a game and children like games lol. they don't sign up for a game to discuss philosophy on the forums lol -
i've met him, and?
did i not say it's the way the kids are brought up. i know i could have made a decent argument when i was 14 mainly due to me being around much older men discussing politics etc as well as motivation school. But then you have those people who just don't give a sh1t. i'm pretty sure everyone met at least 1 person in their life of that stature. Well this forum is in fact infested with many of those kids primarily because it's a game and children likes games lol. they don't sign up for a game to discuss philosophy on the forums lol
I just reference dag anytime someone brings up age. And the philosophy discussion is just a perk :O -
Cross Fire Guns and Weapons -> deleted (imho, basically a combo of guides, fan works and suggestions).[GM]Saidin wrote: »Another thing to discuss is the consolidation of some of the forums.
Cross Fire Maps -> deleted (fan works + suggestions combo)
Also clear the guides section and remove all of the silly threads. There are simply way to many pointless trash threads that are poor excuses for information. Lock the guides section, as in unable to post or create threads. However allow players to submit guides which would have to be approved by "mods" before being posted.
Also, we really don't need a clan section in its current forum. Just have something like the WOGL registration thing. Where you fill out a form and then your clans info is posted. It would work perfectly for all of the pub clans. Competitive teams would simply use WOGL forums and/or the Tournament/League section.
And lets face it, the support section is pointless. Half the time when people post there it is ignored. The only way to get help in a reasonable amount of time is to go on IRC and hope GreyCloak is online. The data collection thread would be merged into the suggestions section. And the "fixes" would be pushed into the guides sub section.
Also if you really wanted to you could delete the suggestion section. Its sort of a waste of space.
Considering most people that play this game rarely post, or bother to read I fail to see the issue. Most people stick to certain sections, and post mainly in those areas.[GM]Saidin wrote: »I'm throwing around ideas and digressing, its very difficult to change things on the forums both from a technological standpoint, but also from a social standpoint. The forums house a lot of people. And the game has a lot of people playing it. Finding the ground to make some of these things happen while still pleasing the general public is difficult.
That is the problem with a "invisible" section. In that case, it would be better to just have a IRC channel even. However that is not the point at least in my own mind and it is why I disagreed with having it "invisible"[GM]Saidin wrote: »It comes down to the (somewhat negative for us?) fact that if you wanted a private area to discuss things, then make your own forum.
And this is simply reality, in the end we all know and accept this. It really doesn't matter, while some things are passed on it is a rare and slow process. To be honest, this is why I prefer to play LoL a game I am pretty bad at. Its pretty funny to play against people on the design team.[GM]Saidin wrote: »While that sounds blunt, the idea of this private forum is there, but what does it accomplish as far as actual content goes. We don't need yet another forum where 5 people can debate the merits of something that is too difficult to get changed in the game in the first place. Changing things in the game is an open concept, but is a slow process. Much slower than a user in a private forum expecting some sort of staff response every day is expecting. -
the thing is most of the people who play CF do not view the forums. Of the 10% or so that do 80% or so of those are immature kids who don't care about what they say.
That is the main point of doing this whole ordeal. To change that perception which you just wrote. This community isn't going to get better if 1) Everyone thinks like that and isn't willing to change or 2) Everyone actually is like that and no one is willing to help to change that.
Of course if we just sit here and let things continue the way they are it's never going to change. Change takes time and the people willing to make that change happen. I'm willing to at least try :-/ -
you're not going to find people in this forum who have enough intellectual prowess to engage in a conversation with people of the same intention to have a debate.
like myawm has said, most people in this community are 14.
the people who are older are either immature, or they have mindset that having a meaningful conversation is their cup of tea.
mature;
1.
complete in natural growth or development, as plant and animal forms: a mature rose bush.
2.
ripe, as fruit, or fully aged, as cheese or wine.
3.
fully developed in body or mind, as a person: a mature woman.
4.
pertaining to or characteristic of full development: a mature appearance; fruit with a mature softness.
5.
completed, perfected, or elaborated in full by the mind: mature plans.
6.
(of an industry, technology, market, etc.) no longer developing or expanding; having little or no potential for further growth or expansion; exhausted or saturated.
7.
intended for or restricted to adults, esp. by reason of explicit sexual content or the inclusion of violence or obscene language: mature movies.
8.
composed of adults, considered as being less susceptible than minors to explicit sexual content, violence, or obscene language, as of a film or stage performance: for mature audiences only.
9.
Finance . having reached the limit of its time; having become payable or due: a mature bond.
half the community wouldn't be able to comprehend the idea of #3.
not including the people who have posted on this thread and certain others.
as much as this would be a good idea, i believe it's somewhat demeaning to separate the intelligent from the not so intelligent. correct me if i'm mistaken here.
i don't think 90% of the community has matured enough to move on to this step, although this is just an idea for now. a good one at that. -
Let's stay focused.
Saidin said that we won't see a special section for people to discuss things. All right, it's his company, his game, he does what he want to do. Nobody will force him to do it.
About making a new forum so that you can debate without the trollers presence: I also have my doubts on it. Man, look around you. How many trollers did you see on this thread, posting "tl:dr" or "Cool Story bro"? The answer is zero. That means that community is growing up, is gaining control of themselves. Previous debates were spammed by trollers until their closure. This thread has almost one day of life. The others? I'd say 4 hours?
Well but that's not what I wanted to point out. You are intelligent people, and so your job here should be correct other people's ideas. Yes, some people just can't accept that their ideas were flawed, but if they don't want to believe that their point was indeed wrong, then it's their problem.
But if you really want to launch a new forum: Then I can do nothing. I can even help if you want to, but in my opinion these debates remaing to the Barracks Section of the Crossfire forums. -
Let's stay focused.
Saidin said that we won't see a special section for people to discuss things. All right, it's his company, his game, he does what he want to do. Nobody will force him to do it.
. . . .
this statement is incorrect
z8games is not saidin's company, he is merely an employee.
crossfire is run under smilegate, if you have read polleus' past forum threads about who controls this game's in-game content etc. you would of saw that the developers of this game are SMILEGATE
correct me if i'm wrong polleus
not trying to troll of course, just stating what i believe to be true -
TASTYLEMONNN wrote: »this statement is incorrect
z8games is not saidin's company, he is merely an employee.
crossfire is run under smilegate, if you have read polleus' past forum threads about who controls this game's in-game content etc. you would of saw that the developers of this game are SMILEGATE
Smilegate doesn't control the forums, and I'm not talking about the game itself.
Saidin can be an employee of his company but he's the voice in here, so I said that this is HIS game. Perhaps I could have been more clear and say that it's not his game, but he is the "forum leader". -
Smilegate doesn't control the forums, and I'm not talking about the game itself.
Saidin can be an employee of his company but he's the voice in here, so I said that this is HIS game. Perhaps I could have been more clear and say that it's not his game, but he is the "forum leader" anyways.
sorry, i misinterpreted your post.
my apologies.
you weren't exactly clear on what you just corrected me on, in your previous post.
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