https://imgur.com/7r6t6uq
Minor fixes on HMX and other mutation mods
Some suggestions, that are really necessary to implement
1. Disable JHP ammo effect on HMX and Mass HMX mode. Maybe on S&D or TDM this type of ammo is great for trying various tactics, but in HMX+ modes it is just an abusive gun for a mode where last survivor takes a bigger piece of cake. Because of the mutants' larger models, tagging effect of this ammo has more chance to hit and slow down the mutants. But due to mode mechanics, every hit from any gun are already slowing down enemies, making applying slowing effect twice. So JHP ammo user on open field can guarantee his spot for the Commando transformation and the only chance to mutate him is to try to catch him at corners and pray for his stupidity.
Another abusive part for this types of game is when the two of JHP users are coupling together. As a mutant, you can regain your speed when enemy is constantly missing for around 0.5 seconds, but in case of JHP, you need almost twice the time. And it's impossible to get rid of tagging effect if you're under crossfire of JHP. Additionally, almost every gun (except for one) are not too strong enough to kill you instantly, but is strong enough to ensure you won't run away while another player will try to knife you when you're in the red.
List of guns, that need to stripped of JHP effect on mutation:
- Steyr TMP and variants
- CBJ-MS
- Scorpion EVOIII
- Kinetics CPW
- Gatling Gun - Infernal Dragon
Last one is a special one. Due to it's high rate of fire, stopping force and damage are way to stronger that on another guns. Solo GG user is not a big problem for experienced player, but if you double GG, it becomes in an almost unwinnable situation. Once again, if those two soldiers are not stupid enough.
And don't say this is impossible - it is the same way possible as AWM Red Hawk or new AA-12 on mutation, that don't grants JHP effect on other modes.
2. Assassin mutant grenade. Annoying addition that are almost useless on endgame. I'm proposing to change grenade properties from push away to slow down. It will solve the assassin OPness on Mutant Escape Mode (where you need just to cycle mutants until you get assassin) or Mass Mutant Mode (where you need to watch out not only from fireballs, but also from grenades) and the effect will be applying more correctly rather than push away (sometimes you can get pushed even the explosion is further, but sometimes push effect is not working even if you are standing on the assassins grenade).
3. Some kind of not related but well. Correct 3rd person animation for Bladed Knuckles and Jungle Knife. Or increase the size of models, or decrease the weapon radius. It is impossible to tell the range of attack from 3rd person because of difference in weapon animation and its hitbox.
4. Buff up default Commandos in Mass HMX. In battle 1 vs 1 with default Slug lv1, Commando will be killed before it ever be able to kill Slug (depends on who strike first). 700/2000 hp in one hit is the hilarious joke, you know. Slugs hp are starting from 3000, that means you need to strike at least twice to kill them. I'm not talking about the fight with leveled up monsters, even Slug lv2 is enough to kill 1-2 Commando, but we still have up to 6 Xeno on the map.
5. Red boxes in Mass HMX are spawning ever if the players are not enough to become a Commando. Number of spawning boxes depends not from the number of players in the round, but on number of players in the room, resulting in spawning red boxes if the playing players are less that 8.
6. Improving mutation chest. 5000 points box with the limit of 1000 per day are taking around 5 days to collect and granting up to 7 days of goods. But next one require 15000 points, and that is 15 days of constant playing or more than two weeks for a just for 2 weeks of reward. Solo reward. I'm don't ever wanna talking about 3rd stage, it is useless for both donating or non-donating players. For donating cause it is possible to spend the same amount of cash and get a better choise, for non-donating - playing almost 2 month for a month worth of reward is rubbish. And also due to adding new Mass HMX mode, Expansion mode is done for.
My suggestion is to revamp the rules, allowing to collect more than 1000 point per day. For example, around the 3000. Also make that points will be granted by mutating people or knifing mutants, making it harder to farm free boxes.
7. Replace HMX mode in ranked match with Mass HMX and the limit of 16 players.
8. Increase damage for soldiers and grant them commando in Mutant Escape if new players are comes in round. If round are starting with 8 people, but after there are coming ~7 new mutants, you have 1 hero vs 14 mutants and with just 340 damage boost. Making it literally impossible to survive.
1. Disable JHP ammo effect on HMX and Mass HMX mode. Maybe on S&D or TDM this type of ammo is great for trying various tactics, but in HMX+ modes it is just an abusive gun for a mode where last survivor takes a bigger piece of cake. Because of the mutants' larger models, tagging effect of this ammo has more chance to hit and slow down the mutants. But due to mode mechanics, every hit from any gun are already slowing down enemies, making applying slowing effect twice. So JHP ammo user on open field can guarantee his spot for the Commando transformation and the only chance to mutate him is to try to catch him at corners and pray for his stupidity.
Another abusive part for this types of game is when the two of JHP users are coupling together. As a mutant, you can regain your speed when enemy is constantly missing for around 0.5 seconds, but in case of JHP, you need almost twice the time. And it's impossible to get rid of tagging effect if you're under crossfire of JHP. Additionally, almost every gun (except for one) are not too strong enough to kill you instantly, but is strong enough to ensure you won't run away while another player will try to knife you when you're in the red.
List of guns, that need to stripped of JHP effect on mutation:
- Steyr TMP and variants
- CBJ-MS
- Scorpion EVOIII
- Kinetics CPW
- Gatling Gun - Infernal Dragon
Last one is a special one. Due to it's high rate of fire, stopping force and damage are way to stronger that on another guns. Solo GG user is not a big problem for experienced player, but if you double GG, it becomes in an almost unwinnable situation. Once again, if those two soldiers are not stupid enough.
And don't say this is impossible - it is the same way possible as AWM Red Hawk or new AA-12 on mutation, that don't grants JHP effect on other modes.
2. Assassin mutant grenade. Annoying addition that are almost useless on endgame. I'm proposing to change grenade properties from push away to slow down. It will solve the assassin OPness on Mutant Escape Mode (where you need just to cycle mutants until you get assassin) or Mass Mutant Mode (where you need to watch out not only from fireballs, but also from grenades) and the effect will be applying more correctly rather than push away (sometimes you can get pushed even the explosion is further, but sometimes push effect is not working even if you are standing on the assassins grenade).
3. Some kind of not related but well. Correct 3rd person animation for Bladed Knuckles and Jungle Knife. Or increase the size of models, or decrease the weapon radius. It is impossible to tell the range of attack from 3rd person because of difference in weapon animation and its hitbox.
4. Buff up default Commandos in Mass HMX. In battle 1 vs 1 with default Slug lv1, Commando will be killed before it ever be able to kill Slug (depends on who strike first). 700/2000 hp in one hit is the hilarious joke, you know. Slugs hp are starting from 3000, that means you need to strike at least twice to kill them. I'm not talking about the fight with leveled up monsters, even Slug lv2 is enough to kill 1-2 Commando, but we still have up to 6 Xeno on the map.
5. Red boxes in Mass HMX are spawning ever if the players are not enough to become a Commando. Number of spawning boxes depends not from the number of players in the round, but on number of players in the room, resulting in spawning red boxes if the playing players are less that 8.
6. Improving mutation chest. 5000 points box with the limit of 1000 per day are taking around 5 days to collect and granting up to 7 days of goods. But next one require 15000 points, and that is 15 days of constant playing or more than two weeks for a just for 2 weeks of reward. Solo reward. I'm don't ever wanna talking about 3rd stage, it is useless for both donating or non-donating players. For donating cause it is possible to spend the same amount of cash and get a better choise, for non-donating - playing almost 2 month for a month worth of reward is rubbish. And also due to adding new Mass HMX mode, Expansion mode is done for.
My suggestion is to revamp the rules, allowing to collect more than 1000 point per day. For example, around the 3000. Also make that points will be granted by mutating people or knifing mutants, making it harder to farm free boxes.
7. Replace HMX mode in ranked match with Mass HMX and the limit of 16 players.
8. Increase damage for soldiers and grant them commando in Mutant Escape if new players are comes in round. If round are starting with 8 people, but after there are coming ~7 new mutants, you have 1 hero vs 14 mutants and with just 340 damage boost. Making it literally impossible to survive.
Comments
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I personally don't agree on anything that implies nerfing something after a HUGE amount of time since its release, it's very bad customer care and it would only show that they don't give a
about people's money.. so that's a big - from me. Everything else you've mentioned is cool.
I would add one more thing that I find more annoying than JHP bullets: I am talking about the yellow drops that contain mag refill or mutation jackets/grenades but also contain weapons which were fine back in 2011, but nowadays no one in the right mind would want to touch them just to have their good weapon thrown (and picked up by beggars that block you anyways) for an MP5. -
Andrew1798 wrote: »I would add one more thing that I find more annoying than JHP bullets: I am talking about the yellow drops that contain mag refill or mutation jackets/grenades but also contain weapons which were fine back in 2011, but nowadays no one in the right mind would want to touch them just to have their good weapon thrown (and picked up by beggars that block you anyways) for an MP5.
It already fixed in Mass HMX - you can pick powerups like FAL or grenades, but you'll never drop weapons untill you're shooted down by fireballs. -
4. Buff up default Commandos in Mass HMX. In battle 1 vs 1 with default Slug lv1, Commando will be killed before it ever be able to kill Slug (depends on who strike first). 700/2000 hp in one hit is the hilarious joke, you know. Slugs hp are starting from 3000, that means you need to strike at least twice to kill them. I'm not talking about the fight with leveled up monsters, even Slug lv2 is enough to kill 1-2 Commando, but we still have up to 6 Xeno on the map.
+1 to buffing default Commandos in Mass Mutation. They're so weak that there's no reason to turn into a Commando unless you can guarantee yourself to reach a Frost Commando box. Like you said, even Slugs give them trouble. -
1. No, just no... So you basically want to take away some of the few weapons that are useful against mutants. Mutant side still wins 90% of all matches.
2. No, It is useful as an anti-camp item.
3. No opinion.
4. +1
5. No opinion
6. To make it even a little useful, Tier 3 should have some (or at least one) perm-weapons as a grand price. Most people dislike non perms anyway.
7. Nothing against it, so +1JackPain (Sweden) -
Added 8th pointPainanator wrote: »1. No, just no... So you basically want to take away some of the few weapons that are useful against mutants. Mutant side still wins 90% of all matches.
This mode isn't about "who has the most powerful gun", FFA is welcoming you.
Both mutants and soldiers survive because they are the team first. And later comes the equipment. If the equipment comes first, then why did you transform in commandos in the first place?Painanator wrote: »2. No, It is useful as an anti-camp item.
in Mutant Escape mode camping is the style of survivng. Now, when almost everyone has the assassin from the event, almost every round ends in the second stage on both maps.
in Mass HMX Fire Terminator are representing that anti-camp option and more effective though. -
Added 8th point
This mode isn't about "who has the most powerful gun", FFA is welcoming you.
Both mutants and soldiers survive because they are the team first. And later comes the equipment. If the equipment comes first, then why did you transform in commandos in the first place?
in Mutant Escape mode camping is the style of survivng. Now, when almost everyone has the assassin from the event, almost every round ends in the second stage on both maps.
in Mass HMX Fire Terminator are representing that anti-camp option and more effective though.
This IS the mode were a powerful gun is useful. They should play with team-work, but very few do. Team-work is also more important if you are a mutant, than a soldier. No matter what guns the soldiers have, the mutants still almost always wins (if not the mutants are totally incompetent). In FFA the majority of the top seem to use non vip AK-47 and M4's.
I do understand what you are saying when it comes to Mass HMX, assassins are redundant there. It's not only in ME camping are the style to survive. Even if there are hunters, camping is kind of the way most survive in any MM, so I stand by my statement.JackPain (Sweden) -
Thank you for answer, but I'm not agree with itPainanator wrote: »This IS the mode were a powerful gun is useful.
Look at history of MM mode. Recent event should perfectly show you about this. First MM mode was perfect untill people find that solders can lock and kill mutants in corners. That's why mutant's respawn was introduced and hero as the center of firepower defense in Hero Mode. But then came the shotguns like M1216 and Jackhammer that brought run'n'gun tactics and messed up supposed game flow in mode. That's why the third generation of mutation was introduced - HMX. Here in mode there is no push back when shooting and weapons are acting as DPS dealers with almost triple damage by default. So even a peashooter like UZI can actually be a great gun with decent damage deal. But still worse than others.
So in the world where one solder is considerately more powerful that one mutant, mutant are forced to play as the team. But it is too risky to defend alone versus the team of mutants, so people are still forced to make defense groups on spots. Include very powerful mutant Xeno and get more reason to cling together. In Mass HMX to faster the game, fireballs and up to 6 Xeno was introduced, so soldiers defense must be soldified. And here we talking about group of players, not as solo players.
You are a defender. And then you are a predator. This is why i reaaaly like re-edit of mutation mode in Xeno. And the best matches i've played was long way ago in CF Japan where there was no lovely-dolly between soldiers and mutants and people was typing "otsu" (lit. GG) at the end of every match. I miss that atmosphere now when people are clinging to you to pray for your gun or to ask to mutate them first. Luckily, it's still to easy to force people to team up with each other and make FFA game mode into All vs one.Painanator wrote: »assassins are redundant there
Assassins was introduced as counter measure against soldiers knock-back effects. They pushing you out, you pulling them in by grenade. In case of HMX, there is no push effect, so assassin's grenade has no countermeasure. -
Some suggestions, that are really necessary to implement
5. Red boxes in Mass HMX are spawning ever if the players are not enough to become a Commando. Number of spawning boxes depends not from the number of players in the round, but on number of players in the room, resulting in spawning red boxes if the playing players are less that 8.
Regarding this, please send a ticket with more details answering the following:
Is this happening for blue box as well? And did players leave when the round started? -
1. The fact that you did not include craze maiden makes this point invalid. Craze is so op that unless 2 vip gats are specifically aiming for u, craze always wins if she has skill active.
Low base amo jhp is bad in hmx, run out of amo too fast. Its only op once amo is 60+. There are already gp crate and zm wep jhp for all to get.
Real balance is 0 vip. Even vip rpk is too good if there is no craze, jhp, vip gat. But no way thatll happen. M1216 will just dominate again without vips.
2. Assassin grenade is fine where it is. It isnt meant to specifically push soldiers pushing you back towards u, it was to displace them to mess up aim and to push soldiers out of bottom and displace cage meirda camps.
U can counter it by jumping.
3. my main mode is knife, the animations are fine.
4. It is a bit weak, the 1k/3k buff is great. 1/2.5 seems more fair though since base is 2k, 2nd 3k, 3rd 5k iirc for mutants that arent starting.
5. No idea About this so no comment.
6. +1 if def needs a revamp
7. No comment
8. Sounds fair enough -
1. The fact that you did not include craze maiden makes this point invalid. Craze is so op that unless 2 vip gats are specifically aiming for u, craze always wins if she has skill active.
Low base amo jhp is bad in hmx, run out of amo too fast. Its only op once amo is 60+. There are already gp crate and zm wep jhp for all to get.
Real balance is 0 vip. Even vip rpk is too good if there is no craze, jhp, vip gat. But no way thatll happen. M1216 will just dominate again without vips.
Thanks for 12 days of crossfire, i have a month free of both assassin and maiden. And what i gonna say - it is possible to counter maiden even with just simple M60. (Well, i'm exaggerating). Both maidens has two flows - they have low speed (compare to husks) and their jump is unstoppable by themselves. If to compare with husks, they are much easier to avoid. Just let it get close, wait for jump, run under the maiden and shoot back. If you have played enough ghost mode matches, you will understand how to see them.
Next, about the ammo - lol, CBJ capacity is over 100 with up to 450 in spare if you're without VVIP. But that's not the main problem - in MHMX box are always refills the ammo, that means that you can just hold LMB and you won't ever run dry. Tactics about waiting is not for this mode.
Real balance will be if players are forced in M16 and mutants only in husk lv 1. It's so utopic that requires no comment at all. But CF is based on asian balance style. It means there will be always some new stuff that will be more OP than others, but until it grants a guaranteed win - it's not OP. Which is not about JHP in mutation.2. Assassin grenade is fine where it is. It isnt meant to specifically push soldiers pushing you back towards u, it was to displace them to mess up aim and to push soldiers out of bottom and displace cage meirda camps.
U can counter it by jumping.
In mutant escape i know one spot for assassin, that will wipe almost everyone in the soldier team (on new map though maiden goes better). And no jump will saves you because you won't ever see it's coming
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The invis isnt a threat alone but u do know it also grants speed like slug and dread right? It also sound like you are doing a 1v1 scenario. You can counter any mutant in a 1v1. And what do you mean by cant stop when jumping? Pretty sure nothing can stop their own jump. Craze can get to almost any spot that isnt pure vertical that jiangshi can. So its essentially maiden + slug/dread +jiangshi.
Ive never fell off due to nade in escape before and never will because ik the spots.
As Craze myself, i still get 3+ gatling camps on ladder or the one spot in front of spawn because its not just me and ik when i can get them.
Mutant lv1 vs m16 is always m16 win so idk how that is even balanced.
I definitely agree that multiple vip gats and stun are too strong but a a reg thompson is just as effective in run and gun as jhp. You just cant be as aggressive.
assuming everyone in that room can aim decently and know how to play mutation, mutants have like no chance to win.
Im honestly curious as what you are trying to get the hmx game state to become. -
The invis isnt a threat alone but u do know it also grants speed like slug and dread right?
Need to check this thing, but as far as i know, maiden's speed ls lower than slugs and dreads and they're winning with their low vulnerability, not because they're moving fast.Ive never fell off due to nade in escape before and never will because ik the spots.
Well, nope, this two spots are not usuable because requires specific skill from assassins holder to reach. And also i wanna add one more thing why we should change assasin's skill ability - perfect strike with grenade grants absolutely zero points to assassin, making this mutant useless for farming points in mutant escape mode.
I definitely agree that multiple vip gats and stun are too strong but a a reg thompson is just as effective in run and gun as jhp. You just cant be as aggressive.
Yeap, that's the reason i'm proposing remove JHP ammo. Players with JHP become to aggressive, but scores low (around 40% damage of MG or AR) and making mutants an easy targets for others with more damage-dealing guns. Yes, of course JHP users has more chance to survive, but they can score only if they becomes a Frost Commando, stealing this chanse from one who are in full defence.
I'm also a hit'n'run player with M14EBR Fatal Wasp, so i know what i'm talking about.
Im honestly curious as what you are trying to get the hmx game state to become.
Something into like mutation knight. Excluding "hold block standing in the edge" issue that was the best mutant mode ever. -
I also dont think z8 can nerf the stats of paid items because of legal issues.
As for trying to make it mutant knight mode, just play that instead. Titan skill cancels knight block.
For stealing frost, thats a completely different thing. It depends on how you play. Parkouring with pistol if forced out still works. There isnt any stealing of frost. -
I also dont think z8 can nerf the stats of paid items because of legal issues.
Well, it's not about nerfing guns, but about mode characteristics. For example, check parkour mode control - it has too much difference from usual modes. The same i'm proposing to Mass HMX - this mode's just disabeling "stopping force" perk in guns, replacing them by it's own. Simple?
Well, nope. Skill is showing animation and blocking movements, but if you keep holding RMB, block is still active.As for trying to make it mutant knight mode, just play that instead. Titan skill cancels knight block.For stealing frost, thats a completely different thing. It depends on how you play. Parkouring with pistol if forced out still works. There isnt any stealing of frost.
Parkouring is okay, but keep the spot in solo with TMP is not okay, Yesterday someone lend TMP Death Eye for me. I didn't ever bothered to press E - this thing on dual burst mode is much stronger than Frost Commando. Just don't forget to take some boxes.
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