Current issue with ranked
Hello, as a person coming from CSGO I enjoy the competition of ranked S&D a lot but there are a few balancing issues with CF ranked currently. I do not think the ranked ladder represents skill levels accurately as ALL guns are allowed, some of which are simply overpowered. I'm alright with ALL guns being allowed in normal matches but I see a pay to win aspect in ranked.
Current gun god tier list from best to worst:
Steyr TMP/Scorpion EVO 3, 9A-91, M14 EBR
Something all of these weapons excel at which makes them better than the AK-47 or M4A1 is the ability to easily control recoil while moving and shooting. The SMGs also stun you (can't move) which makes them a little better than the M14 EBR.
I think the best way to balance ranked would be to ban SMGs, yes the M14 EBR is strong but it is has a lot more counter play since you can still move after being shot by it which is why I would be okay with it staying.
Something to note is that none of these guns are obtainable with GP.
Current gun god tier list from best to worst:
Steyr TMP/Scorpion EVO 3, 9A-91, M14 EBR
Something all of these weapons excel at which makes them better than the AK-47 or M4A1 is the ability to easily control recoil while moving and shooting. The SMGs also stun you (can't move) which makes them a little better than the M14 EBR.
I think the best way to balance ranked would be to ban SMGs, yes the M14 EBR is strong but it is has a lot more counter play since you can still move after being shot by it which is why I would be okay with it staying.
Something to note is that none of these guns are obtainable with GP.
Comments
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Cryptophile wrote: »
[removed because Cryptophile doesn't really like to respect other people and swears a lot. Don't be like Crpytophile.]
You can buy AK-47, M4A1, and AWM in GP store and also get them for free when creating an account, the different variants don't make them much different but the guns I listed are overpowered and all have to be obtained through ZP.
Also considering all the guns I listed are not allowed in ESL rules I consider them unfair. -
zimazzzzzzzz wrote: »
You can buy AK-47, M4A1, and AWM in GP store and also get them for free when creating an account, the different variants don't make them much different but the guns I listed are overpowered and all have to be obtained through ZP.
Also considering all the guns I listed are not allowed in ESL rules I consider them unfair.
People play to win, so they often choose the most powerful weapon in the game. This is the reason why most people here use AK47, also the reason why most people don't use SMGs due to their weakness. Even SMGs with tagging effect are no match for rifles, otherwise you'd see many more people use them already (remember people want to win).
Don't tell me you play AK47 because it is weak, you play it because it is the strongest weapon in the game, otherwise you would buy and use MP7 or P90 from Item shop instead.
The SMGs from ZP crates are made so that their usefulness is improved, this is a way of balancing balancing weapons.
* you get free AK and M4 when you create the account and the fact that these guns are availabe in the Item shop, doesn't mean they are weak. This just means the game is not 100% pay to win (probably 5 or 10%).
* i can list many weapons from ZP crates that is not stronger than weapons from GP crates. Zastava m21 is an example, it is one of the strongest rifles in game but still cannt' 1 shot people in the head at mid range like AK47 can, so people don't like it (its stats is not better than normal version either). -
Cryptophile wrote: »
People play to win, so they often choose the most powerful weapon in the game. This is the reason why most people here use AK47, also the reason why most people don't use SMGs due to their weakness. Even SMGs with tagging effect are no match for rifles, otherwise you'd see many more people use them already (remember people want to win).
Don't tell me you play AK47 because it is weak, you play it because it is the strongest weapon in the game, otherwise you would buy and use MP7 or P90 from Item shop instead.
The SMGs from ZP crates are made so that their usefulness is improved, this is a way of balancing balancing weapons.
* you get free AK and M4 when you create the account and the fact that these guns are availabe in the Item shop, doesn't mean they are weak. This just means the game is not 100% pay to win (probably 5 or 10%).
* i can list many weapons from ZP crates that is not stronger than weapons from GP crates. Zastava m21 is an example, it is one of the strongest rifles in game but still cannt' 1 shot people in the head at mid range like AK47 can, so people don't like it (its stats is not better than normal version either).
You're not taking into account the fact that the AK 1 Shots to the head as a compensation for the recoil, which makes it less viable than it's M4A1 counterpart due to the difficulty of landing a headshot. Headshots are by no means easy (Some people are really good but with 100s of hours practicing and better at aiming which is proof that using an AK is more skill based than M4A1 but has more potential if being used correctly). I usually quickly strafe to the sides between bursts, but when I'm in an encounter against a TMP I am supposed to stand still and be an easy headshot target while the enemy is running circles around me making headshots a hard task The only way to defeat a TMP raid boss is by 1 tapping it, or by sniping it. I didn't know the 9A is a rifle so fair enough, the low ammo capacity, high fire rate, small gun confused me. I do think the 9A is OP though, and it also does also apply the 'tagging effect', picked one up today and used it for the first time, 1 shot headshots, low recoil, high fire rate, quick reload. No flaws at all since the quick reload counters any ammo capacity issue.
Edit: I think to be reasonable a 100 ping limit would help a lot, even though some people would still lag they wouldn't be on such a high ping that they ruin the experience for their team and enemies. -
I agree the weapons you mentioned are OP, but removing them from ranked all together doesn't seem like a viable option to me. I saw someone suggest Eliminate as a ranked mode some days ago, this might give some of the players the balance they require.
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zimazzzzzzzz wrote: »
You're not taking into account the fact that the AK 1 Shots to the head as a compensation for the recoil, which makes it less viable than it's M4A1 counterpart due to the difficulty of landing a headshot. Headshots are by no means easy (Some people are really good but with 100s of hours practicing and better at aiming which is proof that using an AK is more skill based than M4A1 but has more potential if being used correctly). I usually quickly strafe to the sides between bursts, but when I'm in an encounter against a TMP I am supposed to stand still and be an easy headshot target while the enemy is running circles around me making headshots a hard task The only way to defeat a TMP raid boss is by 1 tapping it, or by sniping it. I didn't know the 9A is a rifle so fair enough, the low ammo capacity, high fire rate, small gun confused me. I do think the 9A is OP though, and it also does also apply the 'tagging effect', picked one up today and used it for the first time, 1 shot headshots, low recoil, high fire rate, quick reload. No flaws at all since the quick reload counters any ammo capacity issue.
Edit: I think to be reasonable a 100 ping limit would help a lot, even though some people would still lag they wouldn't be on such a high ping that they ruin the experience for their team and enemies.
I totally agree with you, AK47 is at the moment very underpowered.
It's time to get rid of AK47 and use MP5 from the Item shop instead. -
Well as a mostly SMG user, i say banning SMG's are not a good idea. I don't use the JHP smg's though, mostly the SR3M which i like for it's little higher accuracy at longer ranges, than most SMG's and it's little higher damage. It has low ammo against it though. The only real advantage non JHP's has, is that it make you have better movement speed (And pretty good accuracy while moving) and better Acc while spraying, which is good against laggers (Which is the real problem in Ranked). It doesn't help to much though, if you meet players with AK that one-shot you or M4 players that double-tap you from distance. They also make mince-meat of you close up, if they fire first and you're not moving. The JHP's has also got those disadvantages only they are a little better because of the stunning effect. Personaly i think the TMP got really bad accuracy, only good when you sneak up and put it in their face. Still i would like to see the stunning effect weakened. Never tried scorpion Evo. I also thought the 9a was a smg, when i first tried it. It's l like a SMG with super Acc, but still im not for banning it. Just adapt.
As i wrote in a thread before, when i started playing CF long time ago. People wanted to ban use of AK47 altogether, because they said it was a cheat gun, because of damage and 1tap abillity. People who used it was almost always called noobs in game by other players. A bit funny when now it's considered a Pro's gun.
I would like to see a ban on pings higher than 100 in ranked, much more than any weapon bans. Especially in knife, when the timing is important, not so fun when you keep on dying, because the other team's players lagg. 100 ping is enough to make the timing off, over 130 and they start teleporting around you.JackPain (Sweden) -
The problem is that getting these god tier guns requires ZP. MP5 is very clearly worse than a TMP, and any gun really. The TMP stuns even from long range so it's still quite OP, since they can spray your chest while running towards you since you can't move. Ofcourse I would rather play AK than MP5 but the ZP SMGs which I don't have access to are way stronger than the GP SMGs. So I MUST play AK to even stand a chance and MUST hit my headshot on a moving target even pros only hit headshots around 75% of the time NOT always so how do you expect any casual player without 100s of hours aim training to compete when they can spin 50 crates and get their TMP and win all matches without even needing to be any good at aiming? Just tag their arm and thats it you don't need aim anymore. 'if they fire first and you're not moving' SMG users can run around and spray without hindering their recoil/aim so why would they not be moving? If a SMG tags an AK user then it's a guaranteed auto win for the SMG but for the AK to win from first shot he has to headshot as pure body shots lose every time vs a gun like TMP. I don't have any complains at all for the SR3M, i've played versus it and it seems quite balanced, I think if the tagging effect was nerfed then it would definitely even out the rifles and SMGs. Something to note is that a lot of AK headshots count as neck shots which do 26 or 27 damage, so when you're going for 1 taps to beat the tagging SMGs you get destroyed if you get any of those. I've played old CFNA where they complained about literally everything such as: camping, hardscoping, using m12s, but it doesn't mean they were right, the m12s doesn't even have the tagging effect as far as I'm aware so it still had some good counter play. Over time people played the game more and more so they learned how to use AKs which is why they became so popular now. Every game has a meta (The best current strategy), but I don't think a strategy which involves spending real money is any fair. Most people who were complaining about things like Camping, hardscoping, and m12s were the younger, worse players most of who were, also laggers. The only reason no one is running around with TMPs is because they are hard to obtain and because not everyone has them. People have to play with AKs so they expect others to respect that and play AKs too to not be at a disadvantage since it is currently the most skill based gun in the game. Just to put this into a different perspective, who was the best TMP player you've seen and who was the worst and same for the AK, because from my experience the best AK player I've met landed almost all of his shot to the head and the worst hit me maybe 1 or 2 times before I killed him, but for the TMP the skill margin is so low that I don't know who is even good or bad. Everyone with TMP beats me in atleast a few battles due to the guns power.
The reason I wouldn't want the ping cap to be any lower than 100 is because sometimes my friends have ping spikes from 40 to 90 and they aren't laggers but someone starts downloading in their household so their ping increases, they are also still not invincible at those pings. I do not play knife mode much so I can't speak about ping issues there.
Edit: I know it's a lot to read, sorry -
There are versions, if official or not , where u can play ranked only with cfs/gp guns.
like a 5v5 competitve game mode should be, all the same guns just about ur own skill at the end. Not based on op weapons etc.
they could do that here too, but they wont gain money out of it.. -
Painanator wrote: »Well as a mostly SMG user, i say banning SMG's are not a good idea. I don't use the JHP smg's though, mostly the SR3M which i like for it's little higher accuracy at longer ranges, than most SMG's and it's little higher damage. It has low ammo against it though. The only real advantage non JHP's has, is that it make you have better movement speed (And pretty good accuracy while moving) and better Acc while spraying, which is good against laggers (Which is the real problem in Ranked). It doesn't help to much though, if you meet players with AK that one-shot you or M4 players that double-tap you from distance. They also make mince-meat of you close up, if they fire first and you're not moving. The JHP's has also got those disadvantages only they are a little better because of the stunning effect. Personaly i think the TMP got really bad accuracy, only good when you sneak up and put it in their face. Still i would like to see the stunning effect weakened. Never tried scorpion Evo. I also thought the 9a was a smg, when i first tried it. It's l like a SMG with super Acc, but still im not for banning it. Just adapt.
As i wrote in a thread before, when i started playing CF long time ago. People wanted to ban use of AK47 altogether, because they said it was a cheat gun, because of damage and 1tap abillity. People who used it was almost always called noobs in game by other players. A bit funny when now it's considered a Pro's gun.
I would like to see a ban on pings higher than 100 in ranked, much more than any weapon bans. Especially in knife, when the timing is important, not so fun when you keep on dying, because the other team's players lagg. 100 ping is enough to make the timing off, over 130 and they start teleporting around you.
Finally someone with brain and experience with SMGs.
SMGs is my second favourite after shotguns, so I know quite a lot of its weakness as well. It is also the reason why I play SMGs without tagging effect instead of with tagging effect. The advantage that SMGs without tagging effect give you is actually greater than that of SMGs with tagging effect. Based on my experience, tagging effect is best only in ghost mode - it is a nightmare for the ghosts.
I personally still think AK47 is cheat gun for the reasons below:
1) At close range, it can kill you as fast as shotguns.
2) At mid rage, it can kill you faster than any rifles or SMGs.
3) At long range, it can kill you faster than most if not all semi-automatic sniper rifles.
THIS GUN IS A CHEAT. -
zimazzzzzzzz wrote: »
You're not taking into account the fact that the AK 1 Shots to the head as a compensation for the recoil, which makes it less viable than it's M4A1 counterpart due to the difficulty of landing a headshot. Headshots are by no means easy (Some people are really good but with 100s of hours practicing and better at aiming which is proof that using an AK is more skill based than M4A1 but has more potential if being used correctly). I usually quickly strafe to the sides between bursts, but when I'm in an encounter against a TMP I am supposed to stand still and be an easy headshot target while the enemy is running circles around me making headshots a hard task The only way to defeat a TMP raid boss is by 1 tapping it, or by sniping it. I didn't know the 9A is a rifle so fair enough, the low ammo capacity, high fire rate, small gun confused me. I do think the 9A is OP though, and it also does also apply the 'tagging effect', picked one up today and used it for the first time, 1 shot headshots, low recoil, high fire rate, quick reload. No flaws at all since the quick reload counters any ammo capacity issue.
Edit: I think to be reasonable a 100 ping limit would help a lot, even though some people would still lag they wouldn't be on such a high ping that they ruin the experience for their team and enemies.
I know you are very stupid. But if you are still able to know that AK47's strength is a compensation for its recoil, then why aren't you able to know that SMGs on the other hands have low accuracy and weak damage so they must have some kind of compensation too?
Also, you think practising 100 hours with AK47 to have the ability to 1 tap in the head makes you a pro? How about people who practice with SMGs for thousands of hours and still not able to do well with them? This fact must be clear from the games you play: Rarely you see an SMG user with a good score. If you were clever, which you are obviously not, then you'd know SMGs are the hardest guns to play/master. You might find it easier to play at first, but to master it is not an easy possibility. This is very different from rifles: Hard to learn at first but very easy to master after.
*Learning them is easy, mastering them is 100 times more difficult. -
'1) At close range, it can kill you as fast as shotguns.' This is considering shotguns 1 shot to chest and AK 1 shots to the head in a close range battle, headshots require more skill. '2) At mid rage, it can kill you faster than any rifles or SMGs' this is where rifles are supposed to be the best so this does make sense. '3) At long range, it can kill you faster than most if not all semi-automatic sniper rifles.' This is the reason no one uses semi automatic snipers, they simply aren't as viable as 1 shot snipers, and 1 shot snipers are stronger at long range than an AK because zooming onto the body is easier than 1 tapping at long range with an inaccurate AK with no zoom. Also as a user of AKs there is not only an issue with neck hitboxes but also if the person has a helmet at long range headshots do 96-99 damage which still allows you to live depending on range since the damage scales down when further away. A good sniper player will be able to battle you 1v1 at close because with practice they don't miss quickscopes but that is also based on skill as most people sit in base holding angles since they always instantly die when getting into a close range battle. SMGs and shotguns are supposed to be good at close but not literally win every fight regardless of the opponents skill, Which is why I think shotguns are fine, because even with the 687 EDP you only have 2 shots, which if you land will 1 shot 2 seperate people but if you miss there is counterplay. If the tagging effect was nerfed so you still moved but slower then I would be fine with it.
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Also you being toxic and insulting me doesn't help your argument at all and if anything makes me think you're too low IQ to have an actual serious debate, you are probably 12 years old and unable to aim which is why you are mad that I am suggesting SMGs being nerfed.
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zimazzzzzzzz wrote: »'1) At close range, it can kill you as fast as shotguns.' This is considering shotguns 1 shot to chest and AK 1 shots to the head in a close range battle, headshots require more skill. '2) At mid rage, it can kill you faster than any rifles or SMGs' this is where rifles are supposed to be the best so this does make sense. '3) At long range, it can kill you faster than most if not all semi-automatic sniper rifles.' This is the reason no one uses semi automatic snipers, they simply aren't as viable as 1 shot snipers, and 1 shot snipers are stronger at long range than an AK because zooming onto the body is easier than 1 tapping at long range with an inaccurate AK with no zoom. Also as a user of AKs there is not only an issue with neck hitboxes but also if the person has a helmet at long range headshots do 96-99 damage which still allows you to live depending on range since the damage scales down when further away. A good sniper player will be able to battle you 1v1 at close because with practice they don't miss quickscopes but that is also based on skill as most people sit in base holding angles since they always instantly die when getting into a close range battle. SMGs and shotguns are supposed to be good at close but not literally win every fight regardless of the opponents skill, Which is why I think shotguns are fine, because even with the 687 EDP you only have 2 shots, which if you land will 1 shot 2 seperate people but if you miss there is counterplay. If the tagging effect was nerfed so you still moved but slower then I would be fine with it.
As a shotgun main, I can say most shotguns can't one shot to the chest at close range. Shotguns have around 6 pellets in one round and it usually requires all 6 pellets to hit to make a kill. And because shotguns have low accuracy, the pellets spread out so you usually miss one, two, or even 3 pellets when you aim at your opponent's chest. Due to this reason, most shotguns can't 1 shot at close range but can only 1 shot at very close range. Shotguns like EDP, 870 Breachers, KS-23 are different. These guns have quite high accuracy so their pellets narrow down to a small point and can usually 1 shot kill an oppoent at close range ( usually but not all the time, you need to hit the head to be certain of a kill). However, these guns have either low bullet count or very low fire rate which makes you very dead if you miss the shot. For that reason, I can say AK47 generaly kills faster than shotguns at close range. I said the AK47 kills as fast as shotguns before cos there are some decent shotgun users such as myself who know how to avoid disavantagous fight.
You said SMGs are good at close range, but the reality is most SMG users become dead meat when fight against AK47 at close range. For an SMG user to win, he needs to be the one who shoots first, and this doesn't always happen unless you are good at it.
By the way, the points you made just proved AK47 is a cheat gun.
On the other hand, SMGs can't fight against:
Snipers at long range.
Rifles at mid range
Shotguns at close range. -
I agree the weapons you mentioned are OP, but removing them from ranked all together doesn't seem like a viable option to me. I saw someone suggest Eliminate as a ranked mode some days ago, this might give some of the players the balance they require.
So you'd have to rush around half the map hoping nobody else will take the weapon that you play best with? Not a viable option? To you because you'll lose your advantage or to the money whoring publisher for losing their profit. How about getting rid of all the ridiculously overpowered stuff and start implementing Ranked like CS:GO does. Balanced weapons for everyone, no excuses. A man can dream... -
So you'd have to rush around half the map hoping nobody else will take the weapon that you play best with? Not a viable option? To you because you'll lose your advantage or to the money whoring publisher for losing their profit. How about getting rid of all the ridiculously overpowered stuff and start implementing Ranked like CS:GO does. Balanced weapons for everyone, no excuses. A man can dream...
I guess this could be a option...
[video=youtube_share;MINj62TlPL8]
https://youtu.be/MINj62TlPL8[/video] -
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Ak47 Buster has armour piercing bullets, even at 0 awakening and 35 ammo per mag, and everyone can get it free permanent from ZM in a few hours. Also, despite the abysmal winrate in BM, you should still have won at least some ZP guns from the events.
The gun also has improved power which is able of one shot in the head from rather far distance that normal AK can only do 98 or 99 hp. This is what I meant by the game is not 100% pay to win. Fully upgrade version is even more powerful than AA-12 Buster in ZM as far as I know (I played with 2 guys who have Golden AK47 buster and the boss' HP got low pretty fast) -
There are versions, if official or not , where u can play ranked only with cfs/gp guns.
like a 5v5 competitve game mode should be, all the same guns just about ur own skill at the end. Not based on op weapons etc.
they could do that here too, but they wont gain money out of it..
That doesn't make it fair either. How about one same gun for all? -
Cryptophile wrote: »
The gun also has improved power which is able of one shot in the head from rather far distance that normal AK can only do 98 or 99 hp. This is what I meant by the game is not 100% pay to win. Fully upgrade version is even more powerful than AA-12 Buster in ZM as far as I know (I played with 2 guys who have Golden AK47 buster and the boss' HP got low pretty fast)
It's not absolutely pay to win, but it's highly inbalanced. There's without a doubt guns that are better than others. In Ranked everyone uses the best guns they possibly can, they play like a try-hard or even hak, chat is toxic or compleately not understandable with letters and numbers, the game lagg spikes and fps drops constantly; I literatly can't see where's the fun in that, aside from getting rewards - limiting few guns in Ranked won't save it. -
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I agree with you that these weapons you mentioned are strong (9A, Scorpion or TMP), but i am still against it that you want to ban weapons from ranked (people who buy weapons should be able to play them). Also i dont agree with you that the AK47 is a "cheat" weapon. Of course it is very strong, but thats what an AK is like. If the AK wouldnt be so strong no one would play it cause M4 Recoil is much easier to handle as the recoil of the AK.
Ok thats what i think about the topic and what i read so far in this post.
PS: If you want to play games without these weapons you should consider playing scrims or competitive.
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I agree with you that these weapons you mentioned are strong (9A, Scorpion or TMP), but i am still against it that you want to ban weapons from ranked (people who buy weapons should be able to play them). Also i dont agree with you that the AK47 is a "cheat" weapon. Of course it is very strong, but thats what an AK is like. If the AK wouldnt be so strong no one would play it cause M4 Recoil is much easier to handle as the recoil of the AK.
Ok thats what i think about the topic and what i read so far in this post.
PS: If you want to play games without these weapons you should consider playing scrims or competitive.
High recoil doesn't mean anything when you can just tap once or tap twice to kill an opponent. I also think the AK is too overpowered, but don't understand why people think only pros can play that Op gun. -
zimazzzzzzzz wrote: »Hello, as a person coming from CSGO I enjoy the competition of ranked S&D a lot but there are a few balancing issues with CF ranked currently. I do not think the ranked ladder represents skill levels accurately as ALL guns are allowed, some of which are simply overpowered. I'm alright with ALL guns being allowed in normal matches but I see a pay to win aspect in ranked.
Current gun god tier list from best to worst:
Steyr TMP/Scorpion EVO 3, 9A-91, M14 EBR
Something all of these weapons excel at which makes them better than the AK-47 or M4A1 is the ability to easily control recoil while moving and shooting. The SMGs also stun you (can't move) which makes them a little better than the M14 EBR.
I think the best way to balance ranked would be to ban SMGs, yes the M14 EBR is strong but it is has a lot more counter play since you can still move after being shot by it which is why I would be okay with it staying.
Something to note is that none of these guns are obtainable with GP.
Funny in your other Thread you complain that players instead to pay to win gain some skills, but if you would be such an "skiller" it wouldnt matter what guns the enemy would use against you
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