Trade system thoughts?
im sure the thought has at one point in time has been in everyone's heads. why dont they have a weapon appraisal/trade system. the reason im posting this thread is because i want to get some feedback from a gm or anyone else about why possibly they havent implemented this system.
i could understand the trading and or selling of accounts being frowned upon since it takes money from the game in a sense, but being able to trade weapons (as complicated as it might be) seems like it might just add a little more to the game// i willing drop a hundred dollars or so on the game at a time and have spent well over 1500 dollars so far and dont have too much to show for it but i like what i have. though with that large sum of money spent i do sometimes see weapons i wish i had the chance to buy crates for (i.e. sun wukong crates) and i see people with the gun i like, i have an m4 xs jade that many enjoy but personally would gladly trade for if given the opportunity. i understand a trade system could lead to abuse but everything does at one point or another.
what im thinking:
theres a trade shop where you appraise your guns
(e.g. m4 spring flowers is appraised and valued at an example amount of 15k zp trade value, kukri flame is appraised at 5k zp trade value, d.e. silencer is appraised at 6k zp trade value) the appraisal is a set system like the price of crates or weapons it doesnt vary for the same weapon.
in the trade shop you have a separate currency balance you purchase using the zp on the account (convert to another type of currency)
(e.g. account zp 150,000- purchase market pts: 5kzp for 5k market pts............. this ensures no duplication glitches or abusing currency when trading also bc it might be confusing dealing with a vip that market price is only 40k zp instead it might be 40k market pts etc)
you post the item on the trade shop and has displayed appraised value, you pay the appraised value to put it up for sale (you cannot use the weapon while in trade shop for sale)
(e.g. m4 spring flowers up for trade: appraised value- 15,000zp)
***also*** when posting a weapon for sale or before offering a weapon for trade you must put it in the trade shop storage to avoid errors using the weapon in game while the trade is accepted. *items in trade shop storage cannot be used in game*
you receive offers on the weapon via the trade shop. and you view the offer where you can accept it, deny it, or message them to alter offer.
(e.g. USERBOT123 would like to trade their: (kukri flame, d.e. silencer) for your (m4 spring flowers) accept/deny/message)
upon accepting your weapon is then swapped with the weapons from the offer and placed in your trade storage to then be extracted into your normal storage and the market points deducted from your market point balence.
the major opportunities added by implementing this are as follows:
1. you have the ability to gain access to gaining new guns that are no longer available
2. carefully quantifies values of guns since they are all received mostly by probability.
3. properly pays due to z8 games by charging individual amounts of zp or ep per transaction
4. adds more depth to the game by providing a mercantile aspect to the game, buying and selling weapons- to help those collecting and those just looking for a good weapon that suits their taste
5. allows the player the ability to transfer existing zp weapons to a new account if desired
6. allows clans to effectively weapon share
7. everyone has been asking for this for a long time.
i have taken it upon myself to create an example UI for the system with functioning pages (no animation) but is still in the works ill upload them later and frequently.
KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE FOR INPUT!!!!! gimme your thoughts
***edit***
each person pays the appraised market point amount for the others gun(s)
(e.g. i want to trade my d.e. scope appraised at 5k market points for USERBOT123's gatling gun gold appraised at 16k market points- i pay the 16k to recieve the gatling gold and the USERBOT123 pays 5k to recieve my d.e. scope.)
i could understand the trading and or selling of accounts being frowned upon since it takes money from the game in a sense, but being able to trade weapons (as complicated as it might be) seems like it might just add a little more to the game// i willing drop a hundred dollars or so on the game at a time and have spent well over 1500 dollars so far and dont have too much to show for it but i like what i have. though with that large sum of money spent i do sometimes see weapons i wish i had the chance to buy crates for (i.e. sun wukong crates) and i see people with the gun i like, i have an m4 xs jade that many enjoy but personally would gladly trade for if given the opportunity. i understand a trade system could lead to abuse but everything does at one point or another.
what im thinking:
theres a trade shop where you appraise your guns
(e.g. m4 spring flowers is appraised and valued at an example amount of 15k zp trade value, kukri flame is appraised at 5k zp trade value, d.e. silencer is appraised at 6k zp trade value) the appraisal is a set system like the price of crates or weapons it doesnt vary for the same weapon.
in the trade shop you have a separate currency balance you purchase using the zp on the account (convert to another type of currency)
(e.g. account zp 150,000- purchase market pts: 5kzp for 5k market pts............. this ensures no duplication glitches or abusing currency when trading also bc it might be confusing dealing with a vip that market price is only 40k zp instead it might be 40k market pts etc)
you post the item on the trade shop and has displayed appraised value, you pay the appraised value to put it up for sale (you cannot use the weapon while in trade shop for sale)
(e.g. m4 spring flowers up for trade: appraised value- 15,000zp)
***also*** when posting a weapon for sale or before offering a weapon for trade you must put it in the trade shop storage to avoid errors using the weapon in game while the trade is accepted. *items in trade shop storage cannot be used in game*
you receive offers on the weapon via the trade shop. and you view the offer where you can accept it, deny it, or message them to alter offer.
(e.g. USERBOT123 would like to trade their: (kukri flame, d.e. silencer) for your (m4 spring flowers) accept/deny/message)
upon accepting your weapon is then swapped with the weapons from the offer and placed in your trade storage to then be extracted into your normal storage and the market points deducted from your market point balence.
the major opportunities added by implementing this are as follows:
1. you have the ability to gain access to gaining new guns that are no longer available
2. carefully quantifies values of guns since they are all received mostly by probability.
3. properly pays due to z8 games by charging individual amounts of zp or ep per transaction
4. adds more depth to the game by providing a mercantile aspect to the game, buying and selling weapons- to help those collecting and those just looking for a good weapon that suits their taste
5. allows the player the ability to transfer existing zp weapons to a new account if desired
6. allows clans to effectively weapon share
7. everyone has been asking for this for a long time.
i have taken it upon myself to create an example UI for the system with functioning pages (no animation) but is still in the works ill upload them later and frequently.
KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE FOR INPUT!!!!! gimme your thoughts
***edit***
each person pays the appraised market point amount for the others gun(s)
(e.g. i want to trade my d.e. scope appraised at 5k market points for USERBOT123's gatling gun gold appraised at 16k market points- i pay the 16k to recieve the gatling gold and the USERBOT123 pays 5k to recieve my d.e. scope.)
Comments
-
yeah i know it has but i want to get a handle on what issues z8 have encountered with this possibility, i figure if they address their concerns as a community there would be alot of helpful input on how those issues might be overcome seeing as we all come from many different backgrounds and fields of study and work, it could be possible if all issues were addressed
-
as stated before many times as these topics come up... for a trading system to truly work here there'd have to be quite a few restrictions otherwise it'll get abused rather rapidly. I won't go into all of the details but a 'only allowed to trade duplicate weapons' would likely solve many of the issues as most people don't win duplicates especially on alternate accounts. Though that means most of the rarer weapons would also remain off the trading list as well.
-
This could be a good idea but with the current situation, this trade system problem won't be able to be implanted.
Imo the account security is one thing and abusing s also a potential problem(although I agree add an item which costs ZP for each transaction maybe solve this). -
master_mann wrote: »Make New Account > Spin GP crates > Trade won gun for m9 on main account > Repeat.
That, and if someone got their account stolen, their guns could be traded away before they recovered it.
Too exploitable.
Simple solution: Trading GP items is prohibited.
Problem: Z8 will lose money regardless of how this is done, so they won't do it. Even if the entire forums was spamming the forums cuz they wanted this, it wont happen.
Underneath all the sugarcoating, this is still a business, what kinda company would want to lose money...
EDIT:
After reading this, it might not be so bad, put a price tag on trading, e.g. 20000 zp per person.This could be a good idea but with the current situation, this trade system problem won't be able to be implanted.
Imo the account security is one thing and abusing s also a potential problem(although I agree add an item which costs ZP for each transaction maybe solve this). -
master_mann wrote: »Make New Account > Spin GP crates > Trade won gun for m9 on main account > Repeat.
That, and if someone got their account stolen, their guns could be traded away before they recovered it.
Too exploitable.
That's why there should be a transaction fee or tax that costs zp. -
In other words you wanna trade the weapons that you win for FREE from the events and get back ZP ?
I don't think that this will ever happen xD
no because the currency isnt recirculated into the cf economy... if you win a wep from free crates you still PAY to trade it for another gun. the price per transaction prevents abuse. and for those saying that it provides an abusive aspect ive listened to the reasoning behind it and mostly the reasons rely on the difference in values for weapons but as i stated in the original post thats why they could implement an appraisal system. the system locks in a trade value price per weapon so that you can trade nonequivalent weapons like two weapons for one and you basically pay a service fee for the difference in zp. -
master_mann wrote: »Make New Account > Spin GP crates > Trade won gun for m9 on main account > Repeat.
That, and if someone got their account stolen, their guns could be traded away before they recovered it.
Too exploitable.
even if an account was stolen they would have to pay service fee for transaction. meaning they would have to load zp onto the account and if they do via paypal they have a transaction id to actually BETTER track down the account thief.
now on the same note they could use a re loadable card. but if thats the case the failsafe would be the trade shop transaction id's o they could track down the account that stole the weapons and make sure they are locked out and possibly refund the transaction. this would mean 3 things
1. the thief is found and banned
2. the user who lost the account gets all items recovered
3. z8 earns money off of anyone trying to steal an account AND removes them from the community.
its a win win for everyone. -
as stated before many times as these topics come up... for a trading system to truly work here there'd have to be quite a few restrictions otherwise it'll get abused rather rapidly. I won't go into all of the details but a 'only allowed to trade duplicate weapons' would likely solve many of the issues as most people don't win duplicates especially on alternate accounts. Though that means most of the rarer weapons would also remain off the trading list as well.
as per my new responses ive shed light on the system that would reduce abuse.
as far as the rare weapons being kept out of market, why not? the appraisal system sets amounts per weapon meaning it costs more to trade rare weapons, im editing the post as i realize it would be better for the trade system to force one player to spend the amount of zp the other trading partners weapon is appraised at. (i want to trade my kukri gold appraised at 8k market points for a d.e. noble gold appraised at 75k market gold- i pay the 75k and the other pays 8k)
the only exception i believe given your response is vip weapons. or if inclusive of vip weapons their market price is undetermined and scaling (e.g. trading a d.e. magma appraised at 10k market points for an ak iron beast, you would take the appraised amount for the d.e (10k) and subtract that from the 125k an iron beast costs normally. so you would pay 115k to trade the d.e. magma for the ak iron beast. this reinforces the quantified values of weapons i spoke of and reduces the amount of "imperfect" transactions.)
something that might have been understood: NO ONE RECEIVES ANY ZP, all zp for every transaction is treated as apurchase. same as if you were to spend it on crates or shop items. -
note my newest response i feel like i didnt make it clear in the original post but the appraisal system sets an amount for each gun and the person trading pays the appraised amount of the gun(s) they will be receiving.so at the end of the day z8 will earn more money by nearly 25% as a rough estimate since they will be payed for the zp needed per transaction and they dont circulate any MORE weapons into the game by doing so. the money is literally a service fee that doesnt affect any resources at all and adds no more memory on the game. and as i said in a previous reply to another quote:Simple solution: Trading GP items is prohibited.
Problem: Z8 will lose money regardless of how this is done, so they won't do it. Even if the entire forums was spamming the forums cuz they wanted this, it wont happen.
Underneath all the sugarcoating, this is still a business, what kinda company would want to lose money...
EDIT:
After reading this, it might not be so bad, put a price tag on trading, e.g. 20000 zp per person.
"even if an account was stolen they would have to pay service fee for transaction. meaning they would have to load zp onto the account and if they do via paypal they have a transaction id to actually BETTER track down the account thief.
now on the same note they could use a re loadable card. but if thats the case the failsafe would be the trade shop transaction id's o they could track down the account that stole the weapons and make sure they are locked out and possibly refund the transaction. this would mean 3 things
1. the thief is found and banned
2. the user who lost the account gets all items recovered
3. z8 earns money off of anyone trying to steal an account AND removes them from the community.
its a win win for everyone."
let me know your thoughts now, everyone's input is helping so i can clarify the restrictions and guidelines of this system as well as uncover areas of issues that can be addressed. -
You would hate this to be implemented the moment you win a super nice gun.
So no -1.
Or own a rare.
and why would that be? if for example i just won awm noble beast its value is then appraised and the gun stays rare because no matter how many trades are done with a weapon no more are added to circulation. if you own a rare like m4 tiger gold, it would be appraised very high and im sure you might play with it, but it might also collect dust, but lets say you would be interested in trading for multiple high rarity items, you pay 50k zp to trade the m4 tiger gold for lets say 3 weapons of your liking. because of the system its possible but of course only those who really want the others weapons will t be viable to. keeping the higher priced trades to a minimum and provides low risk for abuse. i own plenty of rares and honestly some i dont use but would gladly trade for weapons i like that i WOULD use. -
I really enjoy the idea of the trade system and have had a minor thought about it with a few GMs briefly in the past when I was mod.
BUT you fail to understand the main issue..
If you were let's simply say the owner of crossifre NA (magically)
would you rather have the possibility of someone spinning 500 crates (spending ~$250) OR
let a user spend (from what I read in ur post) 5k-15k ZP ($5-$10) to get the weapon they desire via trade?
Please I urge you to think like a business,
i own a business of my own and I will tell you.. MONEY COMES FIRST! But please answer my question.. -
[MOD]Andrew wrote: »That's why there should be a transaction fee or tax that costs zp.
yes this is explained in my original post, the appraisal system values your gun and you pay the tax for receiving the other item. my edit explains this much better.
you pay a tax for the value of the received gun not for the one given, the other pays the appraisal on the weapon you give them.
with this, z8 not only earns money per transaction but earns for two people since both pay per transaction. and as i mentioned this costs no addition to memory only the cost in resources to add the system itself and does not circulate more weapons into the game.
lol it seems i wasnt as clear as i shouldve been in the original post since most people are saying there should be a tax but thats exactly what the appraisal and trade system implements.
also note the appraisal system is subject to change to accommodate new crates that become unpopular meaning z8 can change appraised values of weapons to adjust to supply and demand.
not only does this system provide more money for z8 by means of transactions but ALSO it makes past crates more valuable to z8 in a sense because even if a weapon is dated they can still earn money off of the same weapon a person bought a year ago. they mightve spent 50% to get a bm weapon but after that z8 earns no more money from that person for that weapon theyve exhausted all means of profit on that one persons one item. with this system they can continually earn money on the same item for years.
any other comments or concerns you can bring to my attention so i can address or find some solution to? the idea still needs work but but as i work on the example UI pages it helps to fix issues as im creating it. -
I really enjoy the idea of the trade system and have had a minor thought about it with a few GMs briefly in the past when I was mod.
BUT you fail to understand the main issue..
If you were let's simply say the owner of crossifre NA (magically)
would you rather have the possibility of someone spinning 500 crates (spending ~$250) OR
let a user spend (from what I read in ur post) 5k-15k ZP ($5-$10) to get the weapon they desire via trade?
Please I urge you to think like a business,
i own a business of my own and I will tell you.. MONEY COMES FIRST! But please answer my question..
there still has to be someone to spin the 500 plus crates to win the weapon plus after the 500 crates they earn no more money from that particular weapon. with this system they not only earn from the initial spinning but further on by every transaction for that weapon from player to player. so i would ask if you were the owner would you rather 10 people might spend between 10-100 dollars each on a weapon, and earn any number of dollars it takes mind you some people even win free- or 10 people who spent the same ammount and continually earn money on the item those 10 people spent money to get? it multiplies the value of each weapon exponentially and provides CONSISTANT earnings instead of probability.
imagine we as players gamble on the chance to earn a weapon and z8 gambles on how much money they will make. would you gamble or consistantly earn money from a growing economy that you personally control because as the "owner" of z8 you control the appraised prices. as any sales or business professional will tell you, you will earn much more money from taxes, than from sales. -
if the trading system was available no one would spend money to spin for weapons, everyone would out right just buy it via trade..there still has to be someone to spin the 500 plus crates to win the weapon plus after the 500 crates they earn no more money from that particular weapon. with this system they not only earn from the initial spinning but further on by every transaction for that weapon from player to player. so i would ask if you were the owner would you rather 10 people might spend between 10-100 dollars each on a weapon, and earn any number of dollars it takes mind you some people even win free- or 10 people who spent the same ammount and continually earn money on the item those 10 people spent money to get? it multiplies the value of each weapon exponentially and provides CONSISTANT earnings instead of probability.
imagine we as players gamble on the chance to earn a weapon and z8 gambles on how much money they will make. would you gamble or consistantly earn money from a growing economy that you personally control because as the "owner" of z8 you control the appraised prices. as any sales or business professional will tell you, you will earn much more money from taxes, than from sales.
plus the appraisal part would have to be $50-$70 dollars per weapon let alone a trading fee..if there are to be one..
on top of that you still have to have a GM or employee constantly controlling the value of each weapon and make sure it's a stable economy -
if the trading system was available no one would spend money to spin for weapons, everyone would out right just buy it via trade..
plus the appraisal part would have to be $50-$70 dollars per weapon let alone a trading fee..if there are to be one..
on top of that you still have to have a GM or employee constantly controlling the value of each weapon and make sure it's a stable economyif the trading system was available no one would spend money to spin for weapons, everyone would out right just buy it via trade..
plus the appraisal part would have to be $50-$70 dollars per weapon let alone a trading fee..if there are to be one..
on top of that you still have to have a GM or employee constantly controlling the value of each weapon and make sure it's a stable economy
let me ask you do you spin money for m4a1 custom crates? most likely the answer is no. the truth is that new weapons still are spin to win but after the first week of release they see a significant decrease in money spent on that weapon. you cant trade something you dont own. there still has to be people who win those items, if there was a trading system you might see LESS money on crates, but not a dramatic number for new crates because there are less in rotation. i.e.: the m4a1 custom. or even the vector, when it first came out it was very popular. now it collects duust because why would you spend 1k zp on a vector when you can spend 1k on like a kukri gold. the truth is older crates dont make them much money at all. new crates do. but the trade system creates revenue from older weapons. the value of tax per weapon or rather "appraisal" doesnt change daily, its evaluated monthly and re-done every other patch. the guaranteed appraisal price can range from 8 to 50$ per gun, which might not be as much as the 100$ it took to get the weapon but that money is spent none the less. and as far as new weapons go you will have tons of people winning so obviously there would be a delay in the release of a weapon and the ability to trade it. thats a good point and i will work that into the example UI
what if after a crates release like the noble beast crates, there is a 30-60 day waiting period or whenever the crate is discontinued if its limnited time (depending on the gun) before it could be traded? the number of days would be determined by z8 after discussing the depreciation of crate value:
i.e.: brick and bandage upon release expected to make $10,000 in sales per day > by week 6 estimated value per day will be $400 and after week 8 sales will be < $100. so week 7 is when it will be available. -
well some thing that would apply to it that would help scamming of items and accounts.
1.) ZP fee for trading
2.) restrictions on certain items such as vip (of course), gp crate guns, etc
3.) email confirmation on the trade, and if one person or both do not respond in X amount of time the items will be given back.
or
4.) trading for items can be paid by zp. ex: m4 golden tiger traded for 250,000 zp.
it's a good idea so that some of us whose been with the game for a while but never got that one gun could get our hands on one like a m4 golden tiger. But soon enough there'll be a pricing page for such items to depend their worth based on the community itself, like those who help out in the forums so that we don't have people trying to manipulate the market by making an m4 worth X amount. But then again i highly doubt it'll ever happen. -
well some thing that would apply to it that would help scamming of items and accounts.
1.) ZP fee for trading
2.) restrictions on certain items such as vip (of course), gp crate guns, etc
3.) email confirmation on the trade, and if one person or both do not respond in X amount of time the items will be given back.
or
4.) trading for items can be paid by zp. ex: m4 golden tiger traded for 250,000 zp.
it's a good idea so that some of us whose been with the game for a while but never got that one gun could get our hands on one like a m4 golden tiger. But soon enough there'll be a pricing page for such items to depend their worth based on the community itself, like those who help out in the forums so that we don't have people trying to manipulate the market by making an m4 worth X amount. But then again i highly doubt it'll ever happen.
lmao i feel like no one has actually read the original post. this has already been explained and those issues addressed, the appraisal system paired with the trade shop has a fee per weapon that is custom per appraised gun--- this is all explained in the original post and in my replies to previous comments. the original post is a general outline of how the shop will work.
you appraise the weapon once you put it in the trade shop storage where you will not have access to using it in game when its in there.
after it is appraised you get a "market points" value- you exchange ZP for market points- conversion might be similar to 1,000 zp - 500 mp whenever you make a trade your paying a fee, the fee is different per gun and the "appraised value" is the ammount of zp/mp the other person will spend when trading for your weapon and you will spend the amount their weapon is appraised at. -
-
[The_Master wrote: »actually its a terrible idea imagine that someone get your ID and PW he will destroy your account even u put a trans fee u may have ZP in our account , lot of players will make new accounts win zp guns transfer it to main account
-1 i hate the idea
refer to my past comment regarding a response to that issue:
in it i explain every transaction in the trade shop has a transaction ID, so if your account does get scammed you can easily be refunded the items and zp, and it acts as a failsafe for scamming actually because its easy to track down a scammer who took your account if theres a transaction id, that as well if you dont have zp they would have to purchase zp on your account AND their account just to get your gun. this would help z8 find the account of your scammer and ban their account. most of the times when someones account is scammed they can recover it for you but the scammer gets away scott free because no one knows who their main account is but with this system if they traded the guns to their main, they know who did it and can ban it so with this system z8 will have up to 50% more success with finding scammers and over 80% more chance of actually banning them. above that it requires scammers to pay z8 just so they can get banned.
as for abusing it by creating new accounts to win free crates on alts to transfer them to your main account i know this is a big issue, and would be hard to work around but there are a few methods in the system i propose to prevent abuse. the first measure would be to have a minimum rank for the shop. second would be tagging crates from events as event crates, and if you win an item from an event crate there would be an additional fee to trade those, my thoughts on this are that similar to alot of MMORPG's. alot of MMO's have account bound items but you can pay cash for an item to unbind the item for one trade, the item to unbind normally costs alot of money to reduce abuse. this trade system would still allow you to trade free crate won items but at perhaps a 50k zp fee. this high price makes it unlikely to be abused but if you do want to trade the item your free to do so, but honestly the trade system i propose defeats that possibility of much scamming or even gettting free weapons from your alt bc every trade, BOTH accounts pay. and every trade must include 1 zp weapon. so if a scammer tries to take your gun he would be giving away one of his own. same with an alt, youd have to give your alt back a zp weapon. and even if you try to win a crappy zp weapon to trade for a rare weapon on an alt you got from a free crate, why wouldnt you be able to do that? youd still be spending money for the crappy zp weapon and you still pay the appraisal ffee from both accounts, if you wanted to swap weapons from an alt to an account youd be paying like 70$. and your alt would just have the zp weapon you didnt want. honestly its a goldmine for z8, and personally id pay 35-70$ to trade a weapon i dont like for a weapon i won on an alt. this system also means they make money from people who won items in free crates. -
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?28-Common-suggestions-questions-and-answers[FallenAngel] wrote: »[*] Gifting/Trading/Donating to other accounts (either cash shop or in-gamed items)
-Is not something we intend to provide; this protects our assets and players from scams and fraudulent transactions. Some of our payment options offer methods to send funds to another person, but we are in no way responsible for any of these transactions and do not support them.
Closing the thread.
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