Obama
Comments
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So OP is being.. sarcastic?
The situation being the opposite of what he describes, I mean. -
*9 hours ago*
"Such a move will set up a showdown with Republicans, who have blocked Democrats' efforts in Congress to reform immigration laws and warned the president not to take unilateral action on immigration" (Bill Trot).
Edit: This too..
"If Obama took unilateral action on immigration, it would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull" (McConnell).
This should be interesting. Not trying to offend anyone but this'll be fun to watch/read. Please continue this convo. I'd love to see opinions on this 'move'. (Not being sarcastic at all.) -
One thing to think of
Why do people flee to the United states??
People come to the us to seek protection and a better life south american countries such as Mexico all down to Colombia are runned by corrupt governments and drug lords Oh wait? so is the money eh?
American people are the most consumers of drugs in the world and thanks to them by purchasing drugs they paying to the cartels down in the southern part and they kidnap people killing students by orders of the gov whatever crazy stuff u cant imagine.
This has been for such a long period of time that this drug lords had gain so much money and power to influence the governments,
And US is country of immigrants No one is the true seeker of the USA only the native Americans, Which where slaughter in Millions Just to make this grate nation called the US see the dark side my friend. -
One thing to think of
Why do people flee to the United states??
People come to the us to seek protection and a better life south american countries such as Mexico all down to Colombia are runned by corrupt governments and drug lords Oh wait? so is the money eh?
American people are the most consumers of drugs in the world and thanks to them by purchasing drugs they paying to the cartels down in the southern part and they kidnap people killing students by orders of the gov whatever crazy stuff u cant imagine.
This has been for such a long period of time that this drug lords had gain so much money and power to influence the governments,
And US is country of immigrants No one is the true seeker of the USA only the native Americans, Which where slaughter in Millions Just to make this grate nation called the US see the dark side my friend.
Not sure if you're with Obama or against him.
IMO, since both houses will be republican-sided (watch midterm elections bruh), Obama is playing around with his power either to see how far can the republicans go before snapping off or to get his immigration reform (2007) signed (LOL). Either way, its both beneficial and harmful, both smart and dumb.
According to his speech, the republicans HAD the ability to fix the broken immigration system however, they don't have the ability to make Obama stand by a broken system. Basically, Obama is saying "TOO LATE BRUH, we either have another lunch and we get a midpoint or I'll spend our budget making IDs for the immigrants that gives them the ability to drive and work."
No offence, but republicans are so smart, one of them suggested stopping the funding to the White House and make Obama pay his own 'light' bill. -
It's so sad when politics get dumbed down to the point of "I don't like him, so his politics are bad!".
I don't get your system at all anyway, save a few billions: drop both houses and elect a dictator.
May I ask where you're from or what system are you with?
A dictator in the 'land of the free'? That should work xD -
Well, we're a small country but I don't think the system needs to change with a bigger country, it's just that it puts more pressure on the few people in charge to manage.. more, of everything.May I ask where you're from or what system are you with?
A dictator in the 'land of the free'? That should work xD
We have a unitary parliament, no veto powers for any one person and straight up 349 people voting yes or no on everything, majority or super majority depending on the issue.
Anyone can make a party, every citizen with an address can vote, every vote is simply counted once and whichever party or coalition of parties that gets the most votes appoints ministers and such.
The US system with electoral college and whatnot seems complicated, apparently some fudging with who can vote and who can not as well.
As you see, I oppose the US system because I don't understand it, not because it's necessarily inferior. -
I actually disagree with most of my conservative counterparts on immigration. We're a nation of immigrants, it's what made this country great. Though when it made this country great, those people had jobs available to them to make themselves and their nation great, such opportunity isn't as common in this country these days. We need to lower corporate tax rates and give incentives for manufacturers to locate here rather than in other countries. We need to allow much more permitting for fossil fuel recovery.(like Canada does
) As well I can't imagine a single aspect of the agriculture industry that isn't choked to death by the government. Once more jobs are available I can't see anyone complaining about allowing many more legal immigrants into the country than we currently do, and we might as well start with those who are already here, after we secure the border of course. 
What the author of that letter doesn't understand is that ObamaCare increased health insurance costs for nearly everyone while simultaneously making the insurance plans worse. The insurance companies have put a stranglehold on healthcare in this country by inflating costs to the point that you must have insurance to get even the most basic services, this law should have attempted to reverse that but only made the problem worse. Most people would think that's due to the incompetence of the legislators, but I assure you it's by design. They want to collapse the private healthcare industry so they can eventually nationalize the whole thing. While socialized medicine may sound tempting when the simple services are free, just hope you don't get cancer or require an organ transplant.(your income taxes will remove an arm and a leg as a start) The only good part of ObamaCare is that it requires insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. Here's how you get millions of unemployed people healthcare: you create jobs for them so they can buy it.(or rather take the government hand off the throats of employers) That's how capitalism works.[GM]Juicebox wrote: »
If you want to know what practically any law passed by the US Congress actually does, look at its name and assume it does the opposite of what its name implies. The "Affordable Care Act" is obvious enough, the "No Child Left Behind Act" was pretty obvious to anyone who was in high school when it went into affect.
For the most part, both parties/houses pretty much follow the same agenda anyway, they just create the illusion that they're different.I don't get your system at all anyway, save a few billions: drop both houses and elect a dictator. -
The US system with electoral college and whatnot seems complicated, apparently some fudging with who can vote and who can not as well.
As you see, I oppose the US system because I don't understand it, not because it's necessarily inferior.
Are you English?
I understand 'our' system however, most of it is either useless or making the matter worse.I actually disagree with most of my conservative counterparts on immigration. We're a nation of immigrants, it's what made this country great. Though when it made this country great, those people had jobs available to them to make themselves and their nation great, such opportunity isn't as common in this country these days. We need to lower corporate tax rates and give incentives for manufacturers to locate here rather than in other countries. We need to allow much more permitting for fossil fuel recovery.(like Canada does) As well I can't imagine a single aspect of the agriculture industry that isn't choked to death by the government. Once more jobs are available I can't see anyone complaining about allowing many more legal immigrants into the country than we currently do, and we might as well start with those who are already here, after we secure the border of course.
What the author of that letter doesn't understand is that ObamaCare increased health insurance costs for nearly everyone while simultaneously making the insurance plans worse. The insurance companies have put a stranglehold on healthcare in this country by inflating costs to the point that you must have insurance to get even the most basic services, this law should have attempted to reverse that but only made the problem worse. Most people would think that's due to the incompetence of the legislators, but I assure you it's by design. They want to collapse the private healthcare industry so they can eventually nationalize the whole thing. While socialized medicine may sound tempting when the simple services are free, just hope you don't get cancer or require an organ transplant.(your income taxes will remove an arm and a leg as a start) The only good part of ObamaCare is that it requires insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. Here's how you get millions of unemployed people healthcare: you create jobs for them so they can buy it.(or rather take the government hand off the throats of employers) That's how capitalism works.
If you want to know what practically any law passed by the US Congress actually does, look at its name and assume it does the opposite of what its name implies. The "Affordable Care Act" is obvious enough, the "No Child Left Behind Act" was pretty obvious to anyone who was in high school when it went into affect.
For the most part, both parties/houses pretty much follow the same agenda anyway, they just create the illusion that they're different.
I have no clue how Obama Care works or what it has done, but I'm pretty sure it created more jobs and didn't limit job opportunities. Some republican was arguing that it costs the "nation" more and that it limited the job opportunities.
Well....with our system and our president, don't even bother reading the name of an act/law. Just wait for the republicans' move and lets see if they're actually going to fight Obama or just make him pay his own bill. xD
I'll provide the name and the link later, I got class! -
What the author of that letter doesn't understand is that ObamaCare increased health insurance costs for nearly everyone while simultaneously making the insurance plans worse. The insurance companies have put a stranglehold on healthcare in this country by inflating costs to the point that you must have insurance to get even the most basic services, this law should have attempted to reverse that but only made the problem worse. Most people would think that's due to the incompetence of the legislators, but I assure you it's by design. They want to collapse the private healthcare industry so they can eventually nationalize the whole thing. While socialized medicine may sound tempting when the simple services are free, just hope you don't get cancer or require an organ transplant.(your income taxes will remove an arm and a leg as a start) The only good part of ObamaCare is that it requires insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. Here's how you get millions of unemployed people healthcare: you create jobs for them so they can buy it.(or rather take the government hand off the throats of employers) That's how capitalism works.
If you want to know what practically any law passed by the US Congress actually does, look at its name and assume it does the opposite of what its name implies. The "Affordable Care Act" is obvious enough, the "No Child Left Behind Act" was pretty obvious to anyone who was in high school when it went into affect.
Sorry, are you arguing against a government-managed healthcare system? (I'm sure theres a proper name for this but I forget)
Taxation on health and justice seems like the only two things a nation should never oppose.
The peace of mind you get from knowing that whatever happens to you, be it a broken finger, cancer or a major car crash, you'll never have to pay more than $30, is such a comfort.
I wish it on everyone, nobody should have to battle insurance companies for quality care. -
Sorry, are you arguing against a government-managed healthcare system? (I'm sure theres a proper name for this but I forget)
Taxation on health and justice seems like the only two things a nation should never oppose.
The peace of mind you get from knowing that whatever happens to you, be it a broken finger, cancer or a major car crash, you'll never have to pay more than $30, is such a comfort.
I wish it on everyone, nobody should have to battle insurance companies for quality care.
With my Health Insurance through my work I have to pay 180 every 2 weeks and have a 8,000 deductible before Obamacare my Insurance was 40 every 2 weeks. -
I'm not saying 'Obamacare' is good, I'm not sure what it is.With my Health Insurance through my work I have to pay 180 every 2 weeks and have a 8,000 deductible before Obamacare my Insurance was 40 every 2 weeks.
I'm saying that disbanding privatized care and complicated insurance practices is a good thing, assuming the government is actually able to manage it.
I wonder what caused your insurance bill to go up though.
Insurance companies thinking they might as well charge more if the government is footing the bill for the poor?
(Comparison: I pay ~$35 a month, $250 deductible, but then they obviously don't have to pay for normal health care. That's home, life, disability etc in the $35.) -
I'm not saying 'Obamacare' is good, I'm not sure what it is.
I'm saying that disbanding privatized care and complicated insurance practices is a good thing, assuming the government is actually able to manage it.
I wonder what caused your insurance bill to go up though.
Insurance companies thinking they might as well charge more if the government is footing the bill for the poor?
(Comparison: I pay ~$35 a month, $250 deductible, but then they obviously don't have to pay for normal health care. That's home, life, disability etc in the $35.)
Me and my co-workers where told that our old insurance provider was not in the Obama network so that made it go up cause there is hardly any insurance providers so they can charge what they want. -
And the plans through the national network are government subsidized, they cost just as much as the plan you have but the government uses tax money(your tax money) to pay part of it and make it cheaper for those people. What happened to tuition rates when the feds started insuring student loans? They went through the roof because colleges knew they could get away with it. The same is going to happen with the health insurance companies receiving government subsidies, they'll keep inflating every single cost throughout the entire healthcare industry.(as they have been doing for decades but this will put that inflation on steroids) Then the subsidies will get drawn back over time until everyone who actually has to pay for their insurance can't afford it, and the Democrats will campaign(and win) on the idea of nationalizing the whole healthcare industry to reduce those costs. It may sound like a good idea to many, but I can't think of a single thing the federal government runs efficiently, it's in their best interest not to run things efficiently because when they fail the American people just give them more power and money to make it better. And it's a never ending cycle of throwing money into a bottomless pit.Me and my co-workers where told that our old insurance provider was not in the Obama network so that made it go up cause there is hardly any insurance providers so they can charge what they want.
In some countries limited socialism may actually work. In this one the inherent greed of every party involved will quickly turn us into a third world country. -
Interesting points made on all sides.
Immigration Act-
I agree that this country is made of immigrants, and so we shouldn't be closed-off to the idea of letting others in. That being said, circumstances today are far different from what they were 100 years ago. With a lot of people still unemployed in the USA, I think it would be smart to limit the inflow of people who can come in to the USA. For the millions of illegal immigrants already living here, deporting them all would be a nightmare. Better to let them stay, and help them get jobs that contribute to the growth of the country.
Theres more to be said on the changing identity of the US, and what that means in terms of our policy, but I'll leave it at that for now.
Healthcare-
There are two reasons why I think Obamacare is wrong. ONE- it is being funded with money we literally don't have. Do I think it's good that people get the care they need? Yes. But you can't bankrupt a country just to do so (I realize obamacare is only a minor addition to our debt, but any additions should be avoided). TWO- the healthcare that they offer needs to be acceptable to everyone in the US. What does that mean? For me, it means I shouldn't be required to pay for things which I don't believe in. Heres what I mean- as a religious, practicing person, I don't want to have part of my paycheck going towards medical coverage for things I don't think are morally acceptable.
dot, I fully agree with your idea of the perfect government. A small group of individuals, raised virtuously and trained in the needs of the people would be an ideal government. Ideally, I would copy Plato's government model from his "Republic". Minus the myths of the souls, and the classes amongst people. -
dot, I fully agree with your idea of the perfect government. A small group of individuals, raised virtuously and trained in the needs of the people would be an ideal government. Ideally, I would copy Plato's government model from his "Republic". Minus the myths of the souls, and the classes amongst people.
Well.. actually I just described our government.
(oh, maybe you were referring to the dictator post..)
But the major issue with politics here is as it is everywhere is that it's controlled by the fear of media rather than fear or concern of the people.
Been a long time since media presented unbiased reports and were the only - and wholly reliable - source of information for the masses. That view is still present in the medial and political climate, while the people are better at critical thinking than ever.
I like classes amongst the people, if they don't have to work like the Caste system. Thinking that everyone is equal just leads to more ridiculous affirmative action for the plebs.
Our nations are extremely different in so many ways, things like that we're one of the most secular countries in the world while an officially Godless president seems unlikely to ever happen in America, so an issue like abortion isn't an issue at all here.
We're talking perhaps 2% of your taxes going to health care, and say I oppose abortion, I don't think it's my place to not pay those two percent because they might fund an abortion, while they might also pay for someones prosthetic leg or whatever.
But as I said, a complete healthcare reform like from the US system to ours seems impossible. It'll have to go on until it collapses.
im too tired for this, pz -
Yes, I was referring to your dicator post (Hail Alladeen!)
It's true, the media has so much control over what people see and believe, and it's because it's been allowed to grow. The board members and execs of the big companies like NBC and CBS are some of the most influential people in United States. Just like the government, it needs some serious pruning.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against classes. Freedom should predominate over equality. Classes will form of their own accord.
It comes down to priority. If your going to believe something, you should believe it completely- there's no point in being lukewarm. If someone believes in the absence of any divine power, then I expect them to commit to that principle. Likewise, if you do believe in a divine power, you consequently need to live your life accord to that reality.
But this is getting a bit off topic....
Apparently, Obama does have the executive power to fund his act, even if the Republicans are against it. So it seems like this will pass. -
About the original topic: Immigration
I believe a big part of the issue is caused by the fact that anyone born on US soil is automatically an American citizen, even if you are in the country illegally or for tourism. This is the main issue behind the argument of "separating families", but I believe families should't have been in this situation in the first place.
The U.S is a land of immigrants, but I honestly don't believe that "anyone" born in the U.S should be a U.S citizen. At least condition it on the legality and nature of your situation in the country. -
About the original topic: Immigration
I believe a big part of the issue is caused by the fact that anyone born on US soil is automatically an American citizen, even if you are in the country illegally or for tourism. This is the main issue behind the argument of "separating families", but I believe families should't have been in this situation in the first place.
The U.S is a land of immigrants, but I honestly don't believe that "anyone" born in the U.S should be a U.S citizen. At least condition it on the legality and nature of your situation in the country.
Now that we have allowed this situation to happen though, I think we should tell the families that they need to show proof that theyre doing OK in terms of a job/housing, otherwise they will have to return to their respective countries.
Absolutely right Odeeb. Countries change- the US is not the US it was 50 or 60 years ago. I honestly think we're coming towards a point where we'll have as many people in the US as we can really have. At that point, the US will no longer be able to act as a refuge for the millions around the world. Problems will have to be dealt with in the peoples homelands.
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