I think z8 should push a new kick system

GhostArch

Old topic, but every time when a good game is ruined after a hacker enters, I start to think it, and unfortunately, recently I have to think at least twice for every match.

The main problem here is that a hacker can freely enter a room and ruin the game, while there must be enough legit players in room to kick a single hacker (and 3 games later they come back). To ask someone to start a kick and press f11 are sometimes as hard as ask hacker to stop hacking.

That is why many complains about hackers now, 30 hackers can switch between rooms to ruin everyone's experience. But the legit player can only complain, because it seems hackers are well protected, we have nothing to fight them.

I don't want to say how review and ban, in game ban, or x-trap are unsatisfied.
I know in Korean or China, the system might works well, because they either use SSN to create an account, or they maybe spend more time to review replay. I don't think it is possible for CFNA.

So please consider to let host to ban hackers in game.

Here it is:
1. The host of a room can instant kick a player as a hacker.
2. Once kicked, the player can not join the room before the host is changed.
3. When any room has players kicked by host, there might be an auto report. Z8 can randomly choose report and review, and update the host's correct kick count and wrong kick count. The two number can be checked as a room information. 100 correct kicks and 1 wrong kick indicates a better host than 1 correct kick and 100 wrong kicks.
4. The life time of the host ban list can be either the period that he/she hosts the same room, or before his/her logout, it is z8's choice, either way works.

Benefit:
1. Even without x-trap updates, hackers can not ruin every room easily.
2. Host might wrong kick someone for a while, but cannot wrongly kick someone always.
3. Easy to be implemented, when a player start a room, create a file for blocked players, when he is no longer the host, delete this file. The file can be either server side or client side.
4. When z8 has no resource to review any reports, the system can still work. Players just need to choose their favorite host.
5. z8 can easily regulate it with badge, ribbon, etc.
6. Once z8 can randomly choose report to review, hackers should dare not to create a room / or they dare not to kick anyone when he is hosting. Players should also be careful about rage kick.

In other words, a host has more power, but also has more responsibility.

Atheistic

GhostArch wrote: »

Old topic, but every time when a good game is ruined after a hacker enters, I start to think it, and unfortunately, recently I have to think at least twice for every match.

The main problem here is that a hacker can freely enter a room and ruin the game, while there must be enough legit players in room to kick a single hacker (and 3 games later they come back). To ask someone to start a kick and press f11 are sometimes as hard as ask hacker to stop hacking.

That is why many complains about hackers now, 30 hackers can switch between rooms to ruin everyone's experience. But the legit player can only complain, because it seems hackers are well protected, we have nothing to fight them.

I don't want to say how review and ban, in game ban, or x-trap are unsatisfied.
I know in Korean or China, the system might works well, because they either use SSN to create an account, or they maybe spend more time to review replay. I don't think it is possible for CFNA.

So please consider to let host to ban hackers in game.

There should be some instant kick for hosts, maybe a ban list that applies to your own room (any room you create for a day).

Doesn't matter if noobs abuse it, the current system is abused anyway. Also this new system could stop abuse for those that wanted to have it stoped since they can host rooms, play in friends/clannies rooms.

It would also be a 100% KO for hackers.

its_Isaac

Agreed.
The only way we will get rid of hackers is with a more punishable, strict system.

]Sake

Yeah, and I can never again join a random pub game, because if the host doesn't know me I will be kicked each and every time.
-1

Btw this should go in suggestions.

[dot]

' wrote:

Sake;3934173']
Btw this should go in suggestions.

Indeed it should. Moved.


On topic but not really;
If find that weeding out the undesirables before starting and in between games lets you rely more on votekick during games for getting rid of cheaters.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but giving the host ability to instantly kick while in game leaves a lot of room for abuse.
Kick vote at least gives you a chance.

ILLNews

[MOD]dot wrote: »

Indeed it should. Moved.


On topic but not really;
If find that weeding out the undesirables before starting and in between games lets you rely more on votekick during games for getting rid of cheaters.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but giving the host ability to instantly kick while in game leaves a lot of room for abuse.
Kick vote at least gives you a chance.

"I disagree, because most "Legit Players" know their own?
Hackers are too easy to identify - IGN: asdfghjkl, ghtunbioejnfhk...

In game, can't kill them, moving at rates beyond CF's FPS!
One-Shot Bots, Glitching; which also causes (Errors & Disconnects).
Knives flying from 50ft away, Walking & Shooting through walls.

I myself do not "Kick" any Player unless I'm 100% sure their Hacking.
I will even let an (Suspected Hacker) play 2 or 3 games to be sure?
If they are consistence in their activities, killing players at a KDR of
50:1; more than likely they are using a Hacking-Tool, and I get disconnected!

So my point is; even if I'm 'Kicked' by legit players or hacker?
They are doing me a (Favor) by getting me out of the game, without consequences.

W/OAD: I "Agree 100% for the 'Host' having (Full, Unlimited, Non-Voting Control),
of any, and every room - To Kick Without Prejudice!

A concern player for CF's Future!

IGN:N]inja7of9

Atheistic

' wrote:

Sake;3934173']Yeah, and I can never again join a random pub game, because if the host doesn't know me I will be kicked each and every time.
-1

Btw this should go in suggestions.

Then host a room it's not that hard.

Play with people you know i.e clannies/friends.

or even other GM clans that won't kick you even if they wanted to because then you'd know they are cowards.

GhostArch

[MOD]dot wrote: »

Indeed it should. Moved.


On topic but not really;
If find that weeding out the undesirables before starting and in between games lets you rely more on votekick during games for getting rid of cheaters.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but giving the host ability to instantly kick while in game leaves a lot of room for abuse.
Kick vote at least gives you a chance.

If your idea works, we should have a perfect game now and no one complains.

The problem is, hacker are very fast, they enter a room after the game starts, then when still need click all the promotion ad buttons, they have left. Leave us no one to kick. And sometimes host just have no idea they should kick.

Another problem is, it is hard to ask for a vote, then it is hard to ask every one to vote, it is apparently even harder to ask everyone to f11. Players has so much reason to choose doing nothing. And some tricky guys always ask you to kick the hacker in your team, but never do anything to theirs.

In the most of the time, when a hacker gets into a room, if they can not get kicked in 30 seconds, there is no way to kick them. Those ones who hate hacker will be limited to vote soon, it is unreasonable to ask them quit and rejoin, if so, they probably can never play a whole game.

I also don't like the idea to kick anyone just based on name. But if I found someone hack but can not kick, that is problem.

If a host abuses it, just change another room. Good host will soon build their reputations.

The whole rule is, as I mentioned before:
1. Host instant kick player, when he think player hack.
2. Vote kick for other purpose, never can target a host.
3. Once kicked, a player can not enters the host's room before host is changed. When new host comes, his ban list also applied instantly.
4. When any room has players kicked by host, there might be an auto report, if z8 like to review it, then just count the correct kick and wrong kick. This number can go with the player and show to others as others may know something from it.
5. Maybe 1 year later, someone kicked 100 players but only correct once should not be the hose, unless other players in the room are worse than that.

It is much easier to choose a room with a good host, than to choose a room with a majority of good players.

GhostArch

' wrote:

Sake;3934173']Yeah, and I can never again join a random pub game, because if the host doesn't know me I will be kicked each and every time.
-1

Btw this should go in suggestions.

Apparently you overestimate yourself and underestimate other legit players. I can guess you are under 12 years old.

If all the community thinks you hack, then even with the current vote kick, you can not stay in any room.

dragonshot2

Would be nice, but the honorable soldiers maybe would be kicked by ragers.

}Zombie

If X-Trap would every day updated, maybe we dont have this big problems ingame... last update from X-Trap was in the middle of the month march?!

]Sake

Atheistic wrote: »

Then host a room it's not that hard.

Play with people you know i.e clannies/friends.

or even other GM clans that won't kick you even if they wanted to because then you'd know they are cowards.

I play GM with friends and GM clan members, but I can't always make my own room. Besides, the way you all talk about this 'improvement' shows that you didn't really think it through enough. If the host had such an advantage everyone would want to be host. All this would cause is harm to the game, believe me.

GhostArch wrote: »

Apparently you overestimate yourself and underestimate other legit players. I can guess you are under 12 years old.

If all the community thinks you hack, then even with the current vote kick, you can not stay in any room.

I don't overestimate myself. I never said that I'm a 'pro' or anything like that. I'm a bit above average regarding my aiming, but I'm a GMer and as such I'm using my ears in S&D games, not like 90% of the other players (or not to this degree). This leads to me mostly getting good scores, but people think I'm a waller for always knowing where they are and not because of my score. And yes, I get kicked from most S&D rooms.
Side note: I'm 20 years old, but I love it when people guess my age so well :rolleyes:

GhostArch

dragonshot2 wrote: »

Would be nice, but the honorable soldiers maybe would be kicked by ragers.

With current vote kick, it also happens, some hackers just choose a player to kick first, to avoid the chance that player start a vote, and delay the time someone would vote on him.

The bad thing is, the kick vote against a hacker normally too late to acquire the attention of players in the room, while the kick against a good legit player happens alot, when you start with 10:0 in TDM, probably you will get kicked quickly when new players come. It is natural -- they have seen too many hackers, no matter if the ping is high or low, and when they enter the room, they also want a clean room.

If a host is too bad to tell who is hacking, you will remember that name quickly. And if z8 can randomly choose the reported game to review, the correct kick count and wrong kick count will soon a valuable information for us to know who is a good host.

Auto report is a rule to suggest a host not to abuse the power to ban a player from his room. Z8 can simply create a badge for a outstanding host or other virtual reward (no zp involved) to guide players to do right things.

' wrote:

J0KER[;3934662']If X-Trap would every day updated, maybe we dont have this big problems ingame... last update from X-Trap was in the middle of the month march?!

I agree on that, but that would not happens. They lacks the resource, and the fix without break something need carefully tested. Also, it seems that hackers work much harder than x-trap staff. And x-trap always need to study how hackers bypass the system, this needs time. The result is, even the patch can be there everyday, they are overcome by hackers quickly. If a patch is bypassed by hacker in 3 hours every day, we will still have to face hackers for at least 12 hours. The only real time protection is from the community.

' wrote:

Sake;3934847']I don't overestimate myself. I never said that I'm a 'pro' or anything like that. I'm a bit above average regarding my aiming, but I'm a GMer and as such I'm using my ears in S&D games, not like 90% of the other players (or not to this degree). This leads to me mostly getting good scores, but people think I'm a waller for always knowing where they are and not because of my score. And yes, I get kicked from most S&D rooms.
Side note: I'm 20 years old, but I love it when people guess my age so well :rolleyes:

Here we are talking the difference between host ban player from his room and the current system.
Apparently, if you are not kicked from every room currently, there is no reason you can get blocked by every host in the new system.
Please focus on the topic and avoid something like "then I will be blocked from every room".

=====================
Current system:'
It seems we can kick hackers in game, most of us experienced how it fails. There is in fact no pub room can prevent a known hacker from joining now. So a good game can be ruined by just 1 hacker. Now we have even more, it is not hard to see more than 1 hackers in a room.

The new system:
We will have some noob host, and even some hacking host, but once you can find a good host, it is highly likely you will have a good time. And if z8 have time to randomly choose auto report to review, the hosting data would be collected quickly. You can choose a room based on your own judgement.

About hacking hosts, I don't think they want to kick anyone, because they might get banned when the auto report created and submitted. And you will soon know which hosts' room should be avoided.

Because the ban list of a host only effective when he hosting a room, and can be cleared off either when he logs out or he quits the room (no matter start a new room or join another room), he can not block you all the time. This gives the host a chance to reevaluate your skill

]Sake

GhostArch wrote: »

Here we are talking the difference between host ban player from his room and the current system.
Apparently, if you are not kicked from every room currently, there is no reason you can get blocked by every host in the new system.
Please focus on the topic and avoid something like "then I will be blocked from every room".

I didn't really understand your point in the first part, but I don't see in what way I deviated from the topic. Everything I said was my opinion of giving hosts this power. Also, I didn't say I would be blocked from every room, I said I would be kicked from even more rooms.
Anyway, even if it isn't about me, this would be abused even more than the current vote system, which is already bad as it is. Not like I have a definite idea of how to make it better.

GhostArch

' wrote:

Sake;3934918']I didn't really understand your point in the first part, but I don't see in what way I deviated from the topic. Everything I said was my opinion of giving hosts this power. Also, I didn't say I would be blocked from every room, I said I would be kicked from even more rooms.
Anyway, even if it isn't about me, this would be abused even more than the current vote system, which is already bad as it is. Not like I have a definite idea of how to make it better.

Firstly, not likely that hackers will kick you from the room he is hosting, because: 1. your perfect skill would not create any threat for them, 2. they will risk the possibility the auto report is reviewed and they got banned.

Secondly, if you always choose rooms hosted by noobs, then there is enough reason to get kicked.

Thirdly, and most importantly, you need not to rage quit a room when 2 sides start to bargain: "kick *** first, then I will kick yyy". And hackers just happily start votes to block both side from doing anything.

Lastly, when you are discussing something, it is better not introduce yourself into the topic. We are not here to discuss how likely you're kicked as a hacker. If you want to express the abuse, you'd can say it is more likely a good player will be kicked.

Compare to you almost have no chance to finish any game, what is the benefit if you can find a good room, you can enjoy the game.

]Sake

GhostArch wrote: »

Firstly, not likely that hackers will kick you from the room he is hosting, because: 1. your perfect skill would not create any threat for them, 2. they will risk the possibility the auto report is reviewed and they got banned.

You would be surprised how many times I've been called a hacker and asked to be kicked by obviously hacking people.

GhostArch wrote: »

Secondly, if you always choose rooms hosted by noobs, then there is enough reason to get kicked.

I'm not choosing rooms based on their hosts. I'm just randomly joining those which aren't full and are set on a mode/map I like.

GhostArch wrote: »

Thirdly, and most importantly, you need not to rage quit a room when 2 sides start to bargain: "kick *** first, then I will kick yyy". And hackers just happily start votes to block both side from doing anything.

I barely ever quit a game and if I do, I do it right in the beginning.

GhostArch wrote: »

Lastly, when you are discussing something, it is better not introduce yourself into the topic. We are not here to discuss how likely you're kicked as a hacker. If you want to express the abuse, you'd can say it is more likely a good player will be kicked.

Compare to you almost have no chance to finish any game, what is the benefit if you can find a good room, you can enjoy the game.

You are right, we are not here to discuss my opinion. We are here to hear as many forumers' opinion as possible. My opinion is one of them and I don't see how it is bad if I talk about how this would affect me.

Atheistic

' wrote:

Sake;3934847']I play GM with friends and GM clan members, but I can't always make my own room. Besides, the way you all talk about this 'improvement' shows that you didn't really think it through enough. If the host had such an advantage everyone would want to be host. All this would cause is harm to the game, believe me.

Do you really think it's possible everyone can host? Do you really think there will be channels full of rooms at 1 player.

Dream on.

GhostArch

' wrote:

Sake;3935025']You would be surprised how many times I've been called a hacker and asked to be kicked by obviously hacking people.

In the new system?
Or in the current system, did the hacker themselves call you a hacker?

' wrote:

Sake;3935025']I'm not choosing rooms based on their hosts. I'm just randomly joining those which aren't full and are set on a mode/map I like.

Because we all know host has no power, then what difference between rooms? If you know a room that a hacker would be quickly kicked, would you consider it first?

' wrote:

Sake;3935025']I barely ever quit a game and if I do, I do it right in the beginning.

I dont think it has problem, but for me, if hacker can not be kicked (currently only noticable hacking are speeding, autoaiming, and wall shooting. There are something called one shot kill -- come on, I can not notice it now, it is tirivial), then stay in a room is just provide them fun and purpose to continue hacking.

' wrote:

Sake;3935025']You are right, we are not here to discuss my opinion. We are here to hear as many forumers' opinion as possible. My opinion is one of them and I don't see how it is bad if I talk about how this would affect me.

Almost everyone here has experience being kicked as hackers, skills are the reason that would not give up or install hacking code. Why bring yourself up in this kind of thread? Just let others know that you have being called or kicked as hackers? It is ok if you want show it off, but when you use it to reject a solution, it would be horrible.

3 years ago I had posted a topic -- the community is rusting, I got learned for lots of posts that forum community is not perfect, except those who kept complaining about hackers. Yes, at that time I seldom see more than 2 hackers in game. So apparently that conclusion is wrong. But when you look back now, those who don't want any change might already left the game.

The hosting kicking is just an old topic from that time. I would understand z8's embarrassment. They have no control of x-trap, they can not ask user to provide ssn to create an account (Korean can), they dont have enough resource to review the replays (Chinese do have), but they need request a system that fits CFNA.


Ask yourself, is it more attractive to have hacker free rooms to join? Or rooms can not kick legit players and hackers.

Atheistic

GhostArch wrote: »

Almost everyone here has experience being kicked as hackers, skills are the reason that would not give up or install hacking code. Why bring yourself up in this kind of thread? Just let others know that you have being called or kicked as hackers? It is ok if you want show it off, but when you use it to reject a solution, it would be horrible.

He thinks it's just him that get called hacker and kicked.

He doesn't even realise that this would actually benefit those players too because if your playing with non hacking, non QQing players then you cannot get kicked at all and you can have kicked every single (real hacker) and also QQers too.

]Sake

GhostArch wrote: »

In the new system?
Or in the current system, did the hacker themselves call you a hacker?

In the current system, and yes, the hacker called me a hacker.

GhostArch wrote: »

Because we all know host has no power, then what difference between rooms? If you know a room that a hacker would be quickly kicked, would you consider it first?

It's not like I know everyone. I could only differentiate between hosts by their rank, but rank nowadays doesn't mean much. Anyone can become a general in a few months.

GhostArch wrote: »

I dont think it has problem, but for me, if hacker can not be kicked (currently only noticable hacking are speeding, autoaiming, and wall shooting. There are something called one shot kill -- come on, I can not notice it now, it is tirivial), then stay in a room is just provide them fun and purpose to continue hacking.

That's pretty much the same as what I do. Since I can delete my score I rather stay in the room, keep the exp and get rid of my ruined score in the end.

GhostArch wrote: »

Almost everyone here has experience being kicked as hackers, skills are the reason that would not give up or install hacking code. Why bring yourself up in this kind of thread? Just let others know that you have being called or kicked as hackers? It is ok if you want show it off, but when you use it to reject a solution, it would be horrible.

Ask yourself, is it more attractive to have hacker free rooms to join? Or rooms can not kick legit players and hackers.

Why would I want to show off? I'm saying that I don't agree with giving hosts this advantage. You suggested this innovation, so it is natural that you disagree with me, but making up things about me based on my opinion makes no sense.

Atheistic wrote: »

He thinks it's just him that get called hacker and kicked.

How did you even arrive at such a conclusion?

Atheistic wrote: »

He doesn't even realise that this would actually benefit those players too because if your playing with non hacking, non QQing players then you cannot get kicked at all and you can have kicked every single (real hacker) and also QQers too.

Let me give you a short and easy example of how this sounds to me:

You: 'Everyone should be vegetarian.'
Me: 'I disagree.'
You: 'You don't even realize how this would benefit both your health and a lot of animals' life.'

Uhm, well, no.

Atheistic

' wrote:

Sake;3936005']Let me give you a short and easy example of how this sounds to me:

You: 'Everyone should be vegetarian.'
Me: 'I disagree.'
You: 'You don't even realize how this would benefit both your health and a lot of animals' life.'

Uhm, well, no.

Which is exactly what your doing with promoting the current system except your feeding us a diet of being kicked and putting up with hackers.

Where as with this idea you can play with hackers in your own room, keep it hack free, kick or don't kick who you want.

And you can play with noobs/pros/hack supporters or hack haters you know optional things.

]Sake

Atheistic wrote: »

Which is exactly what your doing with promoting the current system except your feeding us a diet of being kicked and putting up with hackers.

Where as with this idea you can play with hackers in your own room, keep it hack free, kick or don't kick who you want.

And you can play with noobs/pros/hack supporters or hack haters you know optional things.

Seems you will never give up trying to convince me. It's futile, let's just stop this here.

ILLNews

"I myself would not "Kick" a Player based on their (IGN)!
I believe if a "Player is Legit to play CF for the Long-Run;
would indeed not think of 'Naming' themselves asddfghjkl?
I would think a player has plenty of (Names, Heroes, Nick-N...)
to be more creative to - name themselves awawawawaw1?

"Hackers or No********? I have a name that identify just
who I'am, and what to expect In-game when you see it!"

The "Host" is the (Host), No-One go to a Event hosted by
a Host, and tell them to leave their Own Event!

Really? IGN: *N]inja7of9* > ZP IGN change from > Pistol][Pete

Atheistic

' wrote:

Sake;3936123']Seems you will never give up trying to convince me. It's futile, let's just stop this here.

IKR.

Can't really open closed minds up though or ones that are used to the status quo.

It's just there for the more intelligent players.

]Sake

Atheistic wrote: »

IKR.

Can't really open closed minds up though or ones that are used to the status quo.

It's just there for the more intelligent players.

You tried to convince me by saying the same thing in different ways over and over again, so I figured that keeping up the conversation is pointless and made an attempt to stop it, yet here you go implying that I'm stupid for not agreeing with you. :rolleyes:

I imagined how this would change the game. All this would cause is hosts kicking other players on a whim. I also stated my point before and you didn't change your mind either. Is it so hard to accept it?

GhostArch

' wrote:

Sake;3936005']In the current system, and yes, the hacker called me a hacker.

That means you are super good, even many of us knows that hackers could anyone else who shoot them in the head a hackers. But yes, we know you are different from others, you named a hacker not only by noobs but also hackers -- apparently someone thinks they are pros.

And if you have not get kicked, continue to play in that room, I think you can prove that you are not a hacker to hackers by your end score. And proves to legit newbies that you are not a hacker by your score too.

But as there are hackers who has 70:2, who cares about your score?

' wrote:

Sake;3936005']It's not like I know everyone. I could only differentiate between hosts by their rank, but rank nowadays doesn't mean much. Anyone can become a general in a few months.

Even you know the host, host can do nothing, I have normally join several rooms created by someone I played alot with -- we might not be friends, because sometimes I will tell them they are noobs for not able to tell they have a hacker, and get kicked by them for not able to kick a hacker or just insult them too much. But most of the time, we can trust each other on kicking. And we normally say something like, "hk1997, ***x in your team haking", and he will watch the player and finally start a vote.

But the problem, 4,5 trusted players in a room can not block hackers from joind in a 10 players room. Vote kick needs 6 f11s, and also we can only start it 4 or 5 times except we have to quit and rejoin. And there is a period all we can do is to quit the room because it is at last out of control.

The point of all these typing are telling you that, currently vote system depends of too many noobs (including hackers and those who just do not know who is haking or even just want take benefit from hackers). 16 players in a room, you can be selected to kick 15 times if all of them are noobs. With host kicking system, only if host thinks you hack you can be kicked. Any different? Hostile host? Change a room, or host your own.

' wrote:

Sake;3936005']That's pretty much the same as what I do. Since I can delete my score I rather stay in the room, keep the exp and get rid of my ruined score in the end.

What exp stands for? Experience point? Does that really reflect the game experience?

This is one thing that I think the community lacks cooperation, if when a hacker enters a room and no one start a kick to kick him, if all the legit players who hate them just leave quickly, and leave the hackers and those who loves to play together, it will not be long that hacker lovers become hacker haters, and the room will be for the hackers only, I dont care if they can enjoy competing the hacking code, but once we have rooms that can block hackers (when almost every legit players start vote and f11 when they see a hacker), we can enjoy the game, and get exp.

' wrote:

Sake;3936005']Why would I want to show off? I'm saying that I don't agree with giving hosts this advantage. You suggested this innovation, so it is natural that you disagree with me, but making up things about me based on my opinion makes no sense.

Look back the argues here, all you have said is I this I that, what I learned is that you are trying to pronounce that you are considered hackers by most of the community, and supposely lead the conclusion you just have a little better aiming than most of the community, including hackers. Then what image we can get in our brains.

Now seriously, even with current system, you can still get kicked by host before or after a game. Ok, let me say this, this happens alot to me, and if I start the topic like this, what would you think.

Note that we are here to discuss a solution, so cool down and think the overall effect, and try to throw yourselves away from discussion.

' wrote:

Sake;3936005']How did you even arrive at such a conclusion?

See above, even the question is not for me.

]Sake

GhostArch wrote: »

This is one thing that I think the community lacks cooperation, if when a hacker enters a room and no one start a kick to kick him, if all the legit players who hate them just leave quickly, and leave the hackers and those who loves to play together, it will not be long that hacker lovers become hacker haters, and the room will be for the hackers only, I dont care if they can enjoy competing the hacking code, but once we have rooms that can block hackers (when almost every legit players start vote and f11 when they see a hacker), we can enjoy the game, and get exp.

The whole problem with this is that your image of the cf in game community is too idealized. While in case things were going like this I would support your views, in reality you will only be disappointed in the outcome.
I agree that giving hosts instant kick would help against hackers, but on the other hand, you would be kicked from most games too.

GhostArch wrote: »

Look back the argues here, all you have said is I this I that, what I learned is that you are trying to pronounce that you are considered hackers by most of the community, and supposely lead the conclusion you just have a little better aiming than most of the community, including hackers. Then what image we can get in our brains.

After reading my posts again I understand what you mean. However, I really didn't have such a motive behind my words.

GhostArch wrote: »

Now seriously, even with current system, you can still get kicked by host before or after a game. Ok, let me say this, this happens alot to me, and if I start the topic like this, what would you think.

Yes, but if you get kicked before or after the game, you don't lose anything, while if you get kicked after the game has started, you lose your kills, your exp points, GP and these won't count towards your achievements, badges or anything like this. This in itself isn't such a big deal once or twice for me either, but this would happen too often for not just me, but many other players too. You won't be able to get a multikill without worrying about getting kicked.

GhostArch wrote: »

See above, even the question is not for me.

I know, I meant it for Atheistic, not for you.

Exiledking63

ghostarch wrote: »

old topic, but every time when a good game is ruined after a hacker enters, i start to think it, and unfortunately, recently i have to think at least twice for every match.

The main problem here is that a hacker can freely enter a room and ruin the game, while there must be enough legit players in room to kick a single hacker (and 3 games later they come back). To ask someone to start a kick and press f11 are sometimes as hard as ask hacker to stop hacking.

That is why many complains about hackers now, 30 hackers can switch between rooms to ruin everyone's experience. But the legit player can only complain, because it seems hackers are well protected, we have nothing to fight them.

I don't want to say how review and ban, in game ban, or x-trap are unsatisfied.
I know in korean or china, the system might works well, because they either use ssn to create an account, or they maybe spend more time to review replay. I don't think it is possible for cfna.

So please consider to let host to ban hackers in game.

Here it is:
1. The host of a room can instant kick a player as a hacker.
2. Once kicked, the player can not join the room before the host is changed.
3. When any room has players kicked by host, there might be an auto report. Z8 can randomly choose report and review, and update the host's correct kick count and wrong kick count. The two number can be checked as a room information. 100 correct kicks and 1 wrong kick indicates a better host than 1 correct kick and 100 wrong kicks.
4. The life time of the host ban list can be either the period that he/she hosts the same room, or before his/her logout, it is z8's choice, either way works.

Benefit:
1. Even without x-trap updates, hackers can not ruin every room easily.
2. Host might wrong kick someone for a while, but cannot wrongly kick someone always.
3. Easy to be implemented, when a player start a room, create a file for blocked players, when he is no longer the host, delete this file. The file can be either server side or client side.
4. When z8 has no resource to review any reports, the system can still work. Players just need to choose their favorite host.
5. Z8 can easily regulate it with badge, ribbon, etc.
6. Once z8 can randomly choose report to review, hackers should dare not to create a room / or they dare not to kick anyone when he is hosting. Players should also be careful about rage kick.

In other words, a host has more power, but also has more responsibility.

i like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Atheistic

' wrote:

Sake;3937512']You tried to convince me by saying the same thing in different ways over and over again, so I figured that keeping up the conversation is pointless and made an attempt to stop it, yet here you go implying that I'm stupid for not agreeing with you. :rolleyes:

I imagined how this would change the game. All this would cause is hosts kicking other players on a whim. I also stated my point before and you didn't change your mind either. Is it so hard to accept it?

Sometimes you have to repeat thing back to children.

If you re-read your posts and mine over and over again you would see that your problems are simply manufactured points to say the current system is best; where you get kicked anyway and have to put up with hackers because they don't kick them.

That's all you did by saying you would get kicked everywhere.

It is entirely possible to get kicked everywhere now and it's more than possible you also have to play with 2 hackers per game.

That's not possible if you made your own room, played in a friends/clannies room or even in a room where the hoster is from a clan that is trying to look respectable. Also you will come across hosts that are fair and even though you might not want to be friends, you know you can play safely.

And as for any valid points you have: sure noobs will be noobs and kick everyone that gets a hs that's fine it wouldn't bother me because I know I can have a proper game whenever I want to anyway.

]Sake

Atheistic wrote: »

Sometimes you have to repeat thing back to children.

Not being able to suppress the urge to say things like this is childish.

GhostArch wrote: »

3. When any room has players kicked by host, there might be an auto report. Z8 can randomly choose report and review, and update the host's correct kick count and wrong kick count. The two number can be checked as a room information. 100 correct kicks and 1 wrong kick indicates a better host than 1 correct kick and 100 wrong kicks.
4. The life time of the host ban list can be either the period that he/she hosts the same room, or before his/her logout, it is z8's choice, either way works.

With these points implemented it could work, but it won't. Z8 doesn't have the resources to check such a quantity of replays even if it would be only every 10th.

Atheistic wrote: »

If you re-read your posts and mine over and over again you would see that your problems are simply manufactured points to say the current system is best; where you get kicked anyway and have to put up with hackers because they don't kick them.

That's all you did by saying you would get kicked everywhere.

If you read my posts, you would know that this isn't the case. As I said the current system is bad and this new system wouldn't make it any better. If things worked out like you want it with this host kick system, it would mean that there is no need for it in the first place. In that case the current kick system would suffice.

Atheistic wrote: »

It is entirely possible to get kicked everywhere now and it's more than possible you also have to play with 2 hackers per game.

That's not possible if you made your own room, played in a friends/clannies room or even in a room where the hoster is from a clan that is trying to look respectable. Also you will come across hosts that are fair and even though you might not want to be friends, you know you can play safely.

This would be the case in a few rooms, but the vast majority or rooms would be unplayable.

GhostArch

' wrote:

Sake;3937929']The whole problem with this is that your image of the cf in game community is too idealized. While in case things were going like this I would support your views, in reality you will only be disappointed in the outcome.

3 years ago I know it is impossible to have an allied community, even only includes the forumers. But I still suggest not to wasting the time in a room with hackers.

' wrote:

Sake;3937929']I agree that giving hosts instant kick would help against hackers, but on the other hand, you would be kicked from most games too.

As long as I can find rooms not kicking me and has no annoying hackers, I am ok to be kicked. Either I should not belong that room (like piles of new starters are practicing there, or the host is a noob that can not tell the difference between hack and skill). With the current system, we are still kicked for no reasons, by vote kick and host kick, even someone says f12 he is legit for you when you has not know the kicking is going on.

The difference is, with old system, we can be kicked and we have to suffer the hackers; with new system, we can be kicked more but we have more chance to avoid annoying hackers.

Is that a happier result?

' wrote:

Sake;3937929']Yes, but if you get kicked before or after the game, you don't lose anything, while if you get kicked after the game has started, you lose your kills, your exp points, GP and these won't count towards your achievements, badges or anything like this. This in itself isn't such a big deal once or twice for me either, but this would happen too often for not just me, but many other players too. You won't be able to get a multikill without worrying about getting kicked.

For this, I would think host kick should allow the kicked player to keep the exp, if it is important to you. Anyway, hackers are supposed to be banned when the auto report is reviewed, to let them have a rank or badge or ribbon or anything we think is more important than the fun of the game that not belongs to them until they finally lose everything.

I know I am too ideal for the z8's resource to review it, but what rank, ribbon, weapon other players (either legit or hacking) can get is not my concern. My concern is that when we want to have a clean game, we can have it and would not ruined up by some new come hackers.

' wrote:

Sake;3938269']
With these points implemented it could work, but it won't. Z8 doesn't have the resources to check such a quantity of replays even if it would be only every 10th.

They need not to review everything, if no resource, they need not to review anything, a rage host can kick you once, but if he is a good player, he would reconsider the kick the next time you enters his room. For some host that blindly think you are a hacker, you'd better choose another room -- even with current system, you must also have the experience that when you entering a waiting room, and directly kicked by the host.

When z8 randomly choose replay to review, the data can be build up. This is helpful for later reviews, for example, they can choose only those who are apparently accurate to kick hacker to review. And directly drop the reports of bad hosts who have more wrong kick than good kick. They can even prevent the bad host to be a host -- for example, if a "bad" host starts a room, when a player with better performance joins, the host power is automatically transferred. In other words, if someone abuse the power to some extent, he is very limited to gain that power again.

I think a good strategy for z8 is: select out the "good" community members and give them more power to influence the game. Host kick gives the power, selecting has to be done by accumulation of the players effort and accuracy to kick hackers. When the data is built up, it is very easy for z8 to control. 1 Ribbon can encourage lots of players to host correctly. Even when most of the community do not care, the minority hacker hater can still survive.

Finally, if you know another system I proposed 4 years ago, you know the host kick is much easier to implement. The old attempt is to improve the vote kick by add weight. Roughly,
a. Z8 sum up the report a player created, the count of confirmed hackers, the count of false positive.
b. When voting, each players has different number of chance to start a vote, and has different weight in their vote. I had equations for that, simply, when a player has more reports (more eager to kick hacker), more correct reports (more accurate to detect hack, or more careful in watching replay) will have more chance to kick, and have more weight to determine the kick, in other words, you f11 might count 12, mine might be only 0.2, if 15 of players with weight 0.2, we still can not kick you.

This sounds good (with very tiny change to the game code and some change to the database), but might encourage players to dump reports and cause z8 has too many to review. So I added something for the punishment if a wrong report is received, i.e., a correct report will give you 1 score, but an apparently wrong one would take you 3 score, the weight comes from (1+x)^score, with x between 0 and 1 and can be adjustable by z8 from time to time.

Anyway, maybe z8 are afraid of too many reports, or it is too hard to add the count, or the maths is too complicated, or Saidin just believes that the x-trap will solve everything, they never take a look at it . And in the past 4 years, we see hackers waves, Good patches, Saidin's proud announcement, Forumers' praises, complains about hackers, request to drop x-trap, etc. These loops again and again. And z8 still thinks they themselves can kick the hackers off, and community is not reliable, even they know they do not have resources.

And the result is, in 6 out of 7 days, hacker is a big problem. If take the recent 1 year to count, I would say 1 out of 30 days, the game is for hackers.