An observation
I mainly lurk around the forums and head into Echo 8 from time to time, and I just don't understand the competitive community's logic, if it can be called that. I've been a long standing member of Crossfire and lightly dabbled in WOGL, drafts and the like, and kept up to date with the happenings. However through all my experience i've noticed something.
The community is "meh" at best for reasons I believe that will ultimately result in the game's competitive demise.
The fact that teams don't normally accept 'prospects', or even players who wish to get into the game competitively with potential to compliment the team is one long-standing issue. I see it all the time even just playing and talking to others in Echo pubs or Alpha pubs with other NA players. It's not always a beneficial thing to be almost entirely exclusive because this forces players who wish to participate to make their own teams (This is the normal outcome when a player can't get into a team exactly) and assume responsibilities that they may or may not be able to uphold (Team management, voip servers etc). Coupled with the fact that the teams that already have established themselves in the community, I feel like this only results in one-sided play and formulates the many ego's that I already seem to observe in and out of game.
I don't get it - if you have people who want to get into the scene, have all the pre-reqs and want to better themselves and improve..why NOT make that leap for the long-term benefit of the game and team?
The community is "meh" at best for reasons I believe that will ultimately result in the game's competitive demise.
The fact that teams don't normally accept 'prospects', or even players who wish to get into the game competitively with potential to compliment the team is one long-standing issue. I see it all the time even just playing and talking to others in Echo pubs or Alpha pubs with other NA players. It's not always a beneficial thing to be almost entirely exclusive because this forces players who wish to participate to make their own teams (This is the normal outcome when a player can't get into a team exactly) and assume responsibilities that they may or may not be able to uphold (Team management, voip servers etc). Coupled with the fact that the teams that already have established themselves in the community, I feel like this only results in one-sided play and formulates the many ego's that I already seem to observe in and out of game.
I don't get it - if you have people who want to get into the scene, have all the pre-reqs and want to better themselves and improve..why NOT make that leap for the long-term benefit of the game and team?
Comments
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This is how it works in any competitive environment. For the most part players who are just starting out typically can only get on teams of fellow newcomers.PzBakeOven wrote: »The fact that teams don't normally accept 'prospects', or even players who wish to get into the game competitively with potential to compliment the team is one long-standing issue.
Although someone might meet the requirements of: having a good shot, able to use voice communication, time to practice, and a desire to improve; to what degree do they meet these requirements? If someone is new, has a good shot and is practicing 30 hours a week, he will end up on a good team in a matter of time. However, if that same new player is only practicing 5-10 hours a week his progress won't be sufficient enough for a team to gamble on playing with him. Especially when there is a saturation of mediocre players, who already have experience.
You can only understand the flow of the game so much from having it explained to you by someone. Besides that you need actual experience in tournaments/leagues.
When I first switched to source even though I had ridiculous aim and a good understanding of the game play (strat called pretty much as soon as a switched, ie: I downloaded way to much stuff of off gotfrag). I still had to go through playing open with other players who were new to source. Luckily for me they were all rogue spear players and we went 8-2 with 1 FFL. From that season, I learned several things about competitive source that I didn't know just from 10mans and ringing.
Looking back even though I probably could have competed in Main that first season, I am sure there were plenty of players out there that already had main experience and a comparable skill set to mine.
If a Main team took a chance on me and it didn't work out, they would have to find a replacement mid season or worse might miss roster locks killing their team. The same holds true for CF. If a team takes a chance on a player that doesn't have some sort of pedigree, they might place poorly. Although the same could be said if they picked up another player who already has experience.
It is also matters on whether or not their is someone in the team who can help/teach the new comer. Not all teams have this type of veteran player who the new comers can be mentored by. If a player has potential, but it can't be unlocked there really isn't a point to gambling on potential.
A prime example would be mykL's situation with LPK 2 years ago. mykL was picked up by LPK as a sub, from the recommendation of mickeyes I believe. Since we needed a player and didn't have time to actually try him out I went off mick's (might be mistaken on who it was) opinion of him. From playing with him he had a lot of potential, but just wasn't there. After qualifying with mykL as our fifth we changed last minute to ReMiX. This was due to ReMiX's performance with us the previous year and his loads of experience in counterstrike. Unfortunately, we bombed at nationals and couldn't beat PDF.
This was a case where in our opinions we couldn't bet on potential and went with past experience and got burned. However, is mykL even at an international level today? Hard to say.
So far new players, this is pretty much the steps you need to get on a good team.
1) Play every day
The more people see you and recognize your name, the more likely they are to play with you. Also, since you have no background your aim will have to be top notch to beat out the current player pool.
2) Look to ring or 10man every chance you get
With 10man's making a comeback this is a good opportunity to get exposure to several teams at once. Also by ringing for multiple teams you learn different playstyles and how to mold to any team dynamic.
3) Watch casts/replays from the "top" teams.
This is a little harder since the content isn't as widely available as other games. One substitution is to watch content from other CF licenses (china, europe, phillipines, etc.). Also if you dig you can find older replays/content from previous years. Especially look at old youtube channels of players who uploaded stuff.
4) Watch your own demo
Save replays of you playing in scrims and identify your mistakes, what lead up to those mistakes, the outcome of the mistakes and what you should of done differently. Also, don't forget to look at what you did well and opportunities where you didn't make a mistake, but missed an opening.
5) Concise voice comms
No one wants to hear people's frustrations over VoIP. Especially that of someone that isn't apart of their team. Call numbers/spots, actions, damage, and gun type when you die. Also, communicate what you are doing: flashing, rotating, pushing, peaking, etc. It is also important to say verbally what you are watching as well as what is open/unwatched.
Things not to call is pretty much any complaint or negative comment. Idle talk and unrelated conversations. People also tend to get upset when people talk when they are dead or attempt to coach players.
tl ; dr - The risk/reward for prospects versus established players is normally too high of risk for too little reward to make it worth while for teams. -
kingdooper wrote: »This is how it works in any competitive environment. For the most part players who are just starting out typically can only get on teams of fellow newcomers.
Although someone might meet the requirements of: having a good shot, able to use voice communication, time to practice, and a desire to improve; to what degree do they meet these requirements? If someone is new, has a good shot and is practicing 30 hours a week, he will end up on a good team in a matter of time. However, if that same new player is only practicing 5-10 hours a week his progress won't be sufficient enough for a team to gamble on playing with him. Especially when there is a saturation of mediocre players, who already have experience.
You can only understand the flow of the game so much from having it explained to you by someone. Besides that you need actual experience in tournaments/leagues.
When I first switched to source even though I had ridiculous aim and a good understanding of the game play (strat called pretty much as soon as a switched, ie: I downloaded way to much stuff of off gotfrag). I still had to go through playing open with other players who were new to source. Luckily for me they were all rogue spear players and we went 8-2 with 1 FFL. From that season, I learned several things about competitive source that I didn't know just from 10mans and ringing.
Looking back even though I probably could have competed in Main that first season, I am sure there were plenty of players out there that already had main experience and a comparable skill set to mine.
If a Main team took a chance on me and it didn't work out, they would have to find a replacement mid season or worse might miss roster locks killing their team. The same holds true for CF. If a team takes a chance on a player that doesn't have some sort of pedigree, they might place poorly. Although the same could be said if they picked up another player who already has experience.
It is also matters on whether or not their is someone in the team who can help/teach the new comer. Not all teams have this type of veteran player who the new comers can be mentored by. If a player has potential, but it can't be unlocked there really isn't a point to gambling on potential.
A prime example would be mykL's situation with LPK 2 years ago. mykL was picked up by LPK as a sub, from the recommendation of mickeyes I believe. Since we needed a player and didn't have time to actually try him out I went off mick's (might be mistaken on who it was) opinion of him. From playing with him he had a lot of potential, but just wasn't there. After qualifying with mykL as our fifth we changed last minute to ReMiX. This was due to ReMiX's performance with us the previous year and his loads of experience in counterstrike. Unfortunately, we bombed at nationals and couldn't beat PDF.
This was a case where in our opinions we couldn't bet on potential and went with past experience and got burned. However, is mykL even at an international level today? Hard to say.
So far new players, this is pretty much the steps you need to get on a good team.
1) Play every day
The more people see you and recognize your name, the more likely they are to play with you. Also, since you have no background your aim will have to be top notch to beat out the current player pool.
2) Look to ring or 10man every chance you get
With 10man's making a comeback this is a good opportunity to get exposure to several teams at once. Also by ringing for multiple teams you learn different playstyles and how to mold to any team dynamic.
3) Watch casts/replays from the "top" teams.
This is a little harder since the content isn't as widely available as other games. One substitution is to watch content from other CF licenses (china, europe, phillipines, etc.). Also if you dig you can find older replays/content from previous years. Especially look at old youtube channels of players who uploaded stuff.
4) Watch your own demo
Save replays of you playing in scrims and identify your mistakes, what lead up to those mistakes, the outcome of the mistakes and what you should of done differently. Also, don't forget to look at what you did well and opportunities where you didn't make a mistake, but missed an opening.
5) Concise voice comms
No one wants to hear people's frustrations over VoIP. Especially that of someone that isn't apart of their team. Call numbers/spots, actions, damage, and gun type when you die. Also, communicate what you are doing: flashing, rotating, pushing, peaking, etc. It is also important to say verbally what you are watching as well as what is open/unwatched.
Things not to call is pretty much any complaint or negative comment. Idle talk and unrelated conversations. People also tend to get upset when people talk when they are dead or attempt to coach players.
tl ; dr - The risk/reward for prospects versus established players is normally too high of risk for too little reward to make it worth while for teams.
10/10
good essay -
PzBakeOven wrote: »I don't get it - if you have people who want to get into the scene, have all the pre-reqs and want to better themselves and improve..why NOT make that leap for the long-term benefit of the game and team?
The top tier players aren't running a charity. If they aren't getting something directly, they probably won't go out of their way to help new comers. This is for several reasons.
1) More competition lowers their chances of going international.
Although one would think more competent competitive teams would be good for the community, it actually lowers one chances of qualifying. If you were on a top team would you feel more comfortable playing in a qualifier where there we 4 teams comparable or better than yours or 12 teams comparable or better than you. Personally, I would take the one where my chances are better, even if it meant the over all quality of play was a bit lower.
2) Teams aren't eternal
People will always be leaving, and the older your team is the more you notice it. Whether it is for a new job, marriage, or lack of interest; throughout the years you will constantly end up playing with new people. Some people are fortunate to end up with people who they are able to stick with for the long haul, but it doesn't happen to often.
So why spend tons of time investing in a player, when your teams window might be closed by the time he reaches it?
3) Plenty of people want something, but don't actually work towards it.
Just because someone has the background, and says they want to play competitively at a high level doesn't mean they will actually put in the effort over the long haul to achieve it.
People can fizzle out, lose interest, or realize its not for them.
I hope these two posts gave you some insight in my opinions at least. Maybe you will be able to get a different perspective from them. -
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You should be more worried about yourself.Artur_Soul wrote: »Join ABC Team 2, we'll help out those players.
Also just going to say that most people do not put in the time and effort to learn basics or they are unwilling to practice in a semi-mature way. -
3) Plenty of people want something, but don't actually work towards it.
Just because someone has the background, and says they want to play competitively at a high level doesn't mean they will actually put in the effort over the long haul to achieve it.
People can fizzle out, lose interest, or realize its not for them.
Sticky this or get jumped by an indian guy -
kingdooper wrote: »This is how it works in any competitive environment. For the most part players who are just starting out typically can only get on teams of fellow newcomers.
Although someone might meet the requirements of: having a good shot, able to use voice communication, time to practice, and a desire to improve; to what degree do they meet these requirements? If someone is new, has a good shot and is practicing 30 hours a week, he will end up on a good team in a matter of time. However, if that same new player is only practicing 5-10 hours a week his progress won't be sufficient enough for a team to gamble on playing with him. Especially when there is a saturation of mediocre players, who already have experience.
You can only understand the flow of the game so much from having it explained to you by someone. Besides that you need actual experience in tournaments/leagues.
When I first switched to source even though I had ridiculous aim and a good understanding of the game play (strat called pretty much as soon as a switched, ie: I downloaded way to much stuff of off gotfrag). I still had to go through playing open with other players who were new to source. Luckily for me they were all rogue spear players and we went 8-2 with 1 FFL. From that season, I learned several things about competitive source that I didn't know just from 10mans and ringing.
Looking back even though I probably could have competed in Main that first season, I am sure there were plenty of players out there that already had main experience and a comparable skill set to mine.
If a Main team took a chance on me and it didn't work out, they would have to find a replacement mid season or worse might miss roster locks killing their team. The same holds true for CF. If a team takes a chance on a player that doesn't have some sort of pedigree, they might place poorly. Although the same could be said if they picked up another player who already has experience.
It is also matters on whether or not their is someone in the team who can help/teach the new comer. Not all teams have this type of veteran player who the new comers can be mentored by. If a player has potential, but it can't be unlocked there really isn't a point to gambling on potential.
A prime example would be mykL's situation with LPK 2 years ago. mykL was picked up by LPK as a sub, from the recommendation of mickeyes I believe. Since we needed a player and didn't have time to actually try him out I went off mick's (might be mistaken on who it was) opinion of him. From playing with him he had a lot of potential, but just wasn't there. After qualifying with mykL as our fifth we changed last minute to ReMiX. This was due to ReMiX's performance with us the previous year and his loads of experience in counterstrike. Unfortunately, we bombed at nationals and couldn't beat PDF.
This was a case where in our opinions we couldn't bet on potential and went with past experience and got burned. However, is mykL even at an international level today? Hard to say.
So far new players, this is pretty much the steps you need to get on a good team.
1) Play every day
The more people see you and recognize your name, the more likely they are to play with you. Also, since you have no background your aim will have to be top notch to beat out the current player pool.
2) Look to ring or 10man every chance you get
With 10man's making a comeback this is a good opportunity to get exposure to several teams at once. Also by ringing for multiple teams you learn different playstyles and how to mold to any team dynamic.
3) Watch casts/replays from the "top" teams.
This is a little harder since the content isn't as widely available as other games. One substitution is to watch content from other CF licenses (china, europe, phillipines, etc.). Also if you dig you can find older replays/content from previous years. Especially look at old youtube channels of players who uploaded stuff.
4) Watch your own demo
Save replays of you playing in scrims and identify your mistakes, what lead up to those mistakes, the outcome of the mistakes and what you should of done differently. Also, don't forget to look at what you did well and opportunities where you didn't make a mistake, but missed an opening.
5) Concise voice comms
No one wants to hear people's frustrations over VoIP. Especially that of someone that isn't apart of their team. Call numbers/spots, actions, damage, and gun type when you die. Also, communicate what you are doing: flashing, rotating, pushing, peaking, etc. It is also important to say verbally what you are watching as well as what is open/unwatched.
Things not to call is pretty much any complaint or negative comment. Idle talk and unrelated conversations. People also tend to get upset when people talk when they are dead or attempt to coach players.
tl ; dr - The risk/reward for prospects versus established players is normally too high of risk for too little reward to make it worth while for teams.
This ^^^^^
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