Cleaning up the final controversies
Attention Competitive Gamers,
We would like to make this post to clear up the last of the discussion for what has been going on recently.
History
First off, I would like to reiterate what the story is and what has been done. Recently an incident was exposed which proved that members of Team Carbon were cheating via an ESG staff member during the WCG Qualifiers earlier this season.
The end result was that the team still lost the chance to go to China to compete at WCG, however since this was under the ESG anti-cheat at the time, and was part of what they were contracted to do, ESG took it upon themselves to discipline the same team in the CFS Season 2 Qualifiers.
Decisions
As the representing company and ultimately decision-makers when it comes to figuring out how to send a team to CFS Season 2, and in light of the evidence that was presented, we fully support the ESG's decision to remove them from their tournaments and games. And subsequently fully support the removal of Carbon from the CFS Season 2 qualifiers.
The current roster of Carbon decided to hold to their name of Carbon, and still used members from that team that cheated. While it's unfortunate to punish those who may not have been originally involved (in this incident), by using the team name Carbon and playing under that banner it goes with all the punishment that could be done before hand. Those members who were new to the team and not involved in the previous incident have not been removed from future competitions.
The end result is that for the players involved in the cheating incident, their ability to play in ESG tournaments is over. For the team Carbon, their ability to compete and play in China for CFS Season 2 is over.
The Carbon name is likely sullied forever at this point, and that fact has received no sympathy from either organizations.
The fact remains that cheating is not accepted and if you do cheat you will be caught and you will be barred from future competition. 2014 is shaping up to be a good year with the opportunities to win real cash prizes. To try and cheat to win is not going to get you anywhere.
We will continue to fully support the decisions that ESG and any of our partners make in regards to what creates and maintains healthy legitimate competition. If that means they permanently remove the ability for those players to compete, then we will support that decision. You dig your own grave with this stuff.
Deflection
In the last few days it's come to our attention that some members of the community are trying to deflect these issues by bringing up old competitions in which teams have cheated.
Unfortunately those competitions did not occur under partnerships that exist now. It is much better for us to continue to ban and remove cheaters using the evidence at hand, than to dig up old past stories and finger-pointing incidents in an attempt to just ban the entire community.
Sadly, we have records on many of the community for the use of hacking programs within the game, some of those players have received punishment, and some of them have moved on and no longer cheat. We do not hold it against those people from that time in history.
The short end of this is that you cannot try to deflect your wrong doings by bringing up the wrong doings of the past on other teams. The decisions above have been made and are final. Live with them. You (the royal you) were the one cheating in the first place, and should have to live with your consequences instead of trying to point fingers at some incident that happened even longer ago.
Future
ESG Has removed these players from competition for the foreseeable future. G4Box is supporting that decision and will also not allow them to compete through those channels.
Trying to tell us that so-and-so cheated in 2011 is not going to change these facts. And it's not going to change the current layout and competition of our CFS Season 2 Qualifiers. That is, unless new information about current cheating is brought to everyone's attention.
The ESG anti-cheat is working at peak efficiency, and we fully support it's use and the decisions that ESG takes along with it. I am still amazed at seeing players still trying to bypass it and hack and cheat their way to the top. But ESG has been very good at catching them and taking appropriate action.
This kind of action and this kind of care is exactly what we are looking for when we create partnerships. We're looking forward to working with ESG in the first half of 2014 to create tournaments for real cash prizes and more. And cheating in those will not be tolerated.
TL : DR
Don't Cheat, there's no need to so why bother?
We would like to make this post to clear up the last of the discussion for what has been going on recently.
History
First off, I would like to reiterate what the story is and what has been done. Recently an incident was exposed which proved that members of Team Carbon were cheating via an ESG staff member during the WCG Qualifiers earlier this season.
The end result was that the team still lost the chance to go to China to compete at WCG, however since this was under the ESG anti-cheat at the time, and was part of what they were contracted to do, ESG took it upon themselves to discipline the same team in the CFS Season 2 Qualifiers.
Decisions
As the representing company and ultimately decision-makers when it comes to figuring out how to send a team to CFS Season 2, and in light of the evidence that was presented, we fully support the ESG's decision to remove them from their tournaments and games. And subsequently fully support the removal of Carbon from the CFS Season 2 qualifiers.
The current roster of Carbon decided to hold to their name of Carbon, and still used members from that team that cheated. While it's unfortunate to punish those who may not have been originally involved (in this incident), by using the team name Carbon and playing under that banner it goes with all the punishment that could be done before hand. Those members who were new to the team and not involved in the previous incident have not been removed from future competitions.
The end result is that for the players involved in the cheating incident, their ability to play in ESG tournaments is over. For the team Carbon, their ability to compete and play in China for CFS Season 2 is over.
The Carbon name is likely sullied forever at this point, and that fact has received no sympathy from either organizations.
The fact remains that cheating is not accepted and if you do cheat you will be caught and you will be barred from future competition. 2014 is shaping up to be a good year with the opportunities to win real cash prizes. To try and cheat to win is not going to get you anywhere.
We will continue to fully support the decisions that ESG and any of our partners make in regards to what creates and maintains healthy legitimate competition. If that means they permanently remove the ability for those players to compete, then we will support that decision. You dig your own grave with this stuff.
Deflection
In the last few days it's come to our attention that some members of the community are trying to deflect these issues by bringing up old competitions in which teams have cheated.
Unfortunately those competitions did not occur under partnerships that exist now. It is much better for us to continue to ban and remove cheaters using the evidence at hand, than to dig up old past stories and finger-pointing incidents in an attempt to just ban the entire community.
Sadly, we have records on many of the community for the use of hacking programs within the game, some of those players have received punishment, and some of them have moved on and no longer cheat. We do not hold it against those people from that time in history.
The short end of this is that you cannot try to deflect your wrong doings by bringing up the wrong doings of the past on other teams. The decisions above have been made and are final. Live with them. You (the royal you) were the one cheating in the first place, and should have to live with your consequences instead of trying to point fingers at some incident that happened even longer ago.
Future
ESG Has removed these players from competition for the foreseeable future. G4Box is supporting that decision and will also not allow them to compete through those channels.
Trying to tell us that so-and-so cheated in 2011 is not going to change these facts. And it's not going to change the current layout and competition of our CFS Season 2 Qualifiers. That is, unless new information about current cheating is brought to everyone's attention.
The ESG anti-cheat is working at peak efficiency, and we fully support it's use and the decisions that ESG takes along with it. I am still amazed at seeing players still trying to bypass it and hack and cheat their way to the top. But ESG has been very good at catching them and taking appropriate action.
This kind of action and this kind of care is exactly what we are looking for when we create partnerships. We're looking forward to working with ESG in the first half of 2014 to create tournaments for real cash prizes and more. And cheating in those will not be tolerated.
TL : DR
- Carbon was removed from the CFS Season 2 qualifiers and subsequent tournaments from ESG.
- G4Box fully supports this decision and also will enforce it by not allowing them to compete for the CFS Season 2 international tournament.
- Carbon brought this on themselves and other forum members trying to deflect that with accusations of cheating from 2011 or previous is not going to change the above decisions.
- Information from 2011 is now considered irrelevant at this point, bringing it up is pointless.
- We will be partnering with ESG in 2014 for more events of which we hope will involve cash prize tournaments.
Don't Cheat, there's no need to so why bother?
Comments
-
[GM]Saidin wrote: »Attention Competitive Gamers,
We would like to make this post to clear up the last of the discussion for what has been going on recently.
History
First off, I would like to reiterate what the story is and what has been done. Recently an incident was exposed which proved that members of Team Carbon were cheating via an ESG staff member during the WCG Qualifiers earlier this season.
The end result was that the team still lost the chance to go to China to compete at WCG, however since this was under the ESG anti-cheat at the time, and was part of what they were contracted to do, ESG took it upon themselves to discipline the same team in the CFS Season 2 Qualifiers.
Decisions
As the representing company and ultimately decision-makers when it comes to figuring out how to send a team to CFS Season 2, and in light of the evidence that was presented, we fully support the ESG's decision to remove them from their tournaments and games. And subsequently fully support the removal of Carbon from the CFS Season 2 qualifiers.
The current roster of Carbon decided to hold to their name of Carbon, and still used members from that team that cheated. While it's unfortunate to punish those who may not have been originally involved (in this incident), by using the team name Carbon and playing under that banner it goes with all the punishment that could be done before hand. Those members who were new to the team and not involved in the previous incident have not been removed from future competitions.
The end result is that for the players involved in the cheating incident, their ability to play in ESG tournaments is over. For the team Carbon, their ability to compete and play in China for CFS Season 2 is over.
The Carbon name is likely sullied forever at this point, and that fact has received no sympathy from either organizations.
The fact remains that cheating is not accepted and if you do cheat you will be caught and you will be barred from future competition. 2014 is shaping up to be a good year with the opportunities to win real cash prizes. To try and cheat to win is not going to get you anywhere.
We will continue to fully support the decisions that ESG and any of our partners make in regards to what creates and maintains healthy legitimate competition. If that means they permanently remove the ability for those players to compete, then we will support that decision. You dig your own grave with this stuff.
Deflection
In the last few days it's come to our attention that some members of the community are trying to deflect these issues by bringing up old competitions in which teams have cheated.
Unfortunately those competitions did not occur under partnerships that exist now. It is much better for us to continue to ban and remove cheaters using the evidence at hand, than to dig up old past stories and finger-pointing incidents in an attempt to just ban the entire community.
Sadly, we have records on many of the community for the use of hacking programs within the game, some of those players have received punishment, and some of them have moved on and no longer cheat. We do not hold it against those people from that time in history.
The short end of this is that you cannot try to deflect your wrong doings by bringing up the wrong doings of the past on other teams. The decisions above have been made and are final. Live with them. You (the royal you) were the one cheating in the first place, and should have to live with your consequences instead of trying to point fingers at some incident that happened even longer ago.
Future
ESG Has removed these players from competition for the foreseeable future. G4Box is supporting that decision and will also not allow them to compete through those channels.
Trying to tell us that so-and-so cheated in 2011 is not going to change these facts. And it's not going to change the current layout and competition of our CFS Season 2 Qualifiers. That is, unless new information about current cheating is brought to everyone's attention.
The ESG anti-cheat is working at peak efficiency, and we fully support it's use and the decisions that ESG takes along with it. I am still amazed at seeing players still trying to bypass it and hack and cheat their way to the top. But ESG has been very good at catching them and taking appropriate action.
This kind of action and this kind of care is exactly what we are looking for when we create partnerships. We're looking forward to working with ESG in the first half of 2014 to create tournaments for real cash prizes and more. And cheating in those will not be tolerated.
TL : DR- Carbon was removed from the CFS Season 2 qualifiers and subsequent tournaments from ESG.
- G4Box fully supports this decision and also will enforce it by not allowing them to compete for the CFS Season 2 international tournament.
- Carbon brought this on themselves and other forum members trying to deflect that with accusations of cheating from 2011 or previous is not going to change the above decisions.
- Information from 2011 is now considered irrelevant at this point, bringing it up is pointless.
- We will be partnering with ESG in 2014 for more events of which we hope will involve cash prize tournaments.
Don't Cheat, there's no need to so why bother?
Why can't we have lans for the qualifiers of tournaments that allow teams to win thousands of dollars and travel for free? -
what about wcg? Are they banned from that too? Or does that fall under esg? And why isn't the solution to LAN for the qualifiers? even if you have to charge teams to cover the fees.. We know it's all about profit for you guys!
[00: 8] † Ha † #CYBERCOP: you guys aren't even officially banned yet
[00:10] r1p12/8 #raw$: yeah we are
[00:10] r1p12/8 #raw$: we can't compete for 1/2 years
[00:10] r1p12/8 #raw$: from what saidin told me -
what about wcg? Are they banned from that too? Or does that fall under esg? And why isn't the solution to LAN for the qualifiers? even if you have to charge teams to cover the fees.. We know it's all about profit for you guys!
WCG 2014 hasn't even been announced yet, let alone who the partners will be for those competitions. I wouldn't worry about that at the moment.
It will be impossible to organize a LAN for the CFS Qualifiers. They will take place on line using the ESG anti cheat and the final match will be between the winners of the OCG Winter cup (Socks) and the finalists from the ESG CFS Qualifiers.
These things are set in stone and will not be changing.
There's really no point in trying to argue it. The CFS Season 2 Qualifiers are set and in motion. Future events will be determined at that time. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »WCG 2014 hasn't even been announced yet, let alone who the partners will be for those competitions. I wouldn't worry about that at the moment.
It will be impossible to organize a LAN for the CFS Qualifiers. They will take place on line using the ESG anti cheat and the final match will be between the winners of the OCG Winter cup (Socks) and the finalists from the ESG CFS Qualifiers.
These things are set in stone and will not be changing.
There's really no point in trying to argue it. The CFS Season 2 Qualifiers are set and in motion. Future events will be determined at that time.
Nothing is impossible... -
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I agree with your points, and I think that you are making the right decisions. ESG is a very competent organization, but they are new, and problems like this are easy to miss at first. I'm sure they have already figured out how they will manage future competitions.
I'm looking forward to 2014, I'm positive that it will be a new era for Crossfire. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »WCG 2014 hasn't even been announced yet, let alone who the partners will be for those competitions. I wouldn't worry about that at the moment.
It will be impossible to organize a LAN for the CFS Qualifiers. They will take place on line using the ESG anti cheat and the final match will be between the winners of the OCG Winter cup (Socks) and the finalists from the ESG CFS Qualifiers.
These things are set in stone and will not be changing.
There's really no point in trying to argue it. The CFS Season 2 Qualifiers are set and in motion. Future events will be determined at that time.
I was talking about the having lans in the future. -
what about wcg? Are they banned from that too? Or does that fall under esg? And why isn't the solution to LAN for the qualifiers? even if you have to charge teams to cover the fees.. We know it's all about profit for you guys![GM]Saidin wrote: »WCG 2014 hasn't even been announced yet, let alone who the partners will be for those competitions. I wouldn't worry about that at the moment.
It will be impossible to organize a LAN for the CFS Qualifiers. They will take place on line using the ESG anti cheat and the final match will be between the winners of the OCG Winter cup (Socks) and the finalists from the ESG CFS Qualifiers.
These things are set in stone and will not be changing.
There's really no point in trying to argue it. The CFS Season 2 Qualifiers are set and in motion. Future events will be determined at that time.
AFAIK, Z8 does not have control on who plays in WCG qualifiers unless if they are the ones who host it. That is the case with League of Legends which is why Canada was unable to send a team over. Just boycott WCG already, it's a f'ing joke. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Did you even read the thread?
The logic CF.....People cheated in WCG 2011 ( ok its over ) but they dont get bann or anything. But also Carbon did cheated in WCG 2013 ( its over socks went CN ) they still get banned....The logic CF.. -
The logic CF.....People cheated in WCG 2011 ( ok its over ) but they dont get bann or anything. But also Carbon did cheated in WCG 2013 ( its over socks went CN ) they still get banned....The logic CF..
where is the proof? you can not have conviction without evidence, there is proof for 2013, but only word of mouth for 2011. -
...The logic CF.....People cheated in WCG 2011 ( ok its over ) but they dont get bann or anything. But also Carbon did cheated in WCG 2013 ( its over socks went CN ) they still get banned....The logic CF..
^^AwfulFallout wrote: »where is the proof? you can not have conviction without evidence, there is proof for 2013, but only word of mouth for 2011.
all 'evidence' provided for the cheating of past teams has been through messages from facebook, xfire, and posts on the forums, which can easily be reproduced easily(not the latter, as it was a confession) and are inconclusive to begin with -
so they cheat? and no ban? gj mate
There's so much missing context for people to come into a thread like this and start trying to make comments on the admins who are trying to clean it up.
Essentially someone hears the word "cheater" or "ban" and they come running to see what's been done. It's the same syndrome we see with people constantly refreshing the clan page just to prove an account has lost the honorable soldier ribbon.
Without context none of this will make sense, or seem fair. But the punishment in this case fits the crime.
1) There's no enough evidence to set a suitable course of action based on stories from 2011. Nor is there a point, especially since the "cheats" claimed to be used in 2011 would easily have been detected by the ESG anti cheat.
2) ESG has stated that they will share necessary information about cheaters using cheats or hacks in CF but that it's ultimately our discretion to the actions we take on the specific accounts. Cheating in ESG is not cheating in the game under the terms of use for the game. However we have stated that we can and will use that information to remove hackers from the game if it is suitable. We have the ability to close accounts under that notion.
3) Banning and Removed from play are two different things in this case. There is no point in issuing in game bans when all this essentially was was someone on the phone telling players the location of the other team.
This is a horrible act, and has compromised the legitimacy of play on that match. But it's not hacking. G4Box is not about to issue bans on these accounts unless we have direct evidence they were hacking.
Instead we can work with the ESG to ensure that these players do not play in competitive international tournaments for any period of time either organization chooses to inflict. This is more devastating than a ban from the game for those players. These players want to play for real money, they want to travel around the world, they want to be recognized as the best. However "cheating" your way to the best means you shouldn't be allowed to compete again (in whatever means ESG or G4Box determines). But again, this doesn't mean we are issuing an "in game ban".
4) All of this can be discussed in singular threads. There is no reason to read this, come to your own conclusion and then decide you want to make a thread about it. Keep the discussion within threads and things will make a lot more sense.
Stopping the spread of false information is going to help the whole system grow better for the future.
So let's stick to the facts, and the fact remains that the players involved in the cheating won't be playing for the big top prizes and international competition any time soon. And that there is no point and not enough evidence to "convict" players from 2011. That kind of deflection is a pointless argument. -
Nothing is impossible...
Im pretty sure CF Stars give z8 deadline when they must have a team, that is why both OCG + ESG rush it to end it fast as you can see. What they gonna do now ? announcing there will be a lan in 2-3 week for a 2 teams compete CF Star only ? Who gonna come ? Some lives near there, and 2 winner of ESG and OCG lool. Lan for CF Star now is impossible
![[MOD]Polleus](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/7/navatar_8918107.gif){kind=avatar}
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