[DISCUSSION] For the Casual/Semi-Casual Clans & Players

[MOD]Polleus

Well, it's certainly been a while since I've been around or involved in any meaningful discussions. I figured today would be a good day to bring up an old topic that's been discussed before. Stepping away for a while gave me some time to rest up and come back here with a much better view on things that I may or may not have done right in the past. This discussion is directed towards the more casual/semi-casual players and teams in the community, so please keep that in mind when reading.

We've all seen Leagues come and go in this community and the approach for most of these Leagues has been to appeal to a very serious mindset with strict rules and restrictions. My mind goes back to the days of Closed and Open Beta where there was much less focus put on the weapons being used and more focus put on the teams/players and strategies involved in each game. I remember Clan Wars were a lot more fun (at least they were for me) back then. People used weapons that were seemingly unbalanced, but it really wasn't a big deal. Games were still fun and light on the attitude.

Is this sentiment completely gone from the community now? Would events appeal more or less with a very open rule set? Open rule set meaning allowing some ZP oriented weapons/items into competition. Would Pub clans and Casual players be more inclined to participate if the event was in a lighter setting/less serious atmosphere with a more open rule set? Does it even matter? Don't be afraid to speak out, even if you don't normally speak out for these things. I'd really like to get some positive insight into what appeals to this side of the community, in terms of events/tournaments/leagues/etc.

For discussion purposes, let's imagine this setting in a controlled environment with a working anti-cheat. If teams were on an even field (anti-cheat), does the weapon set matter that much as for what is allowed and what isn't? What appeals better? Strict or not so strict?

Casual and semi-casual players & teams ---- Discuss

SooperPickle

I'd be more inclined to participate in tournaments if people weren't ridiculed on being less skilled than another player/team. Also the fact that people use personal attacks to get their point across or to get under another player/team's skin just for the sake of it (ie. sharing private information that was meant to remain as such).

FrozenSyther

The unnecessary rules such as no hats, bags, and ammo mags kinda disappoint me.

ElShocker

FrozenSyther wrote: »

The unnecessary rules such as no hats, bags, and ammo mags kinda disappoint me.

Hats can mess with the opponents hitting your head.

FrozenSyther

CriticalKid wrote: »

Hats can mess with the opponents hitting your head.

I felt like it hurts more towards the user since the hats can be oversized..

ElShocker

FrozenSyther wrote: »

I felt like it hurts more towards the user since the hats can be oversized..

You can hit that hat w.o doing dmg. I think pumpkin head is a dif story.

FrozenSyther

Oh I'd also like stricter rules on sportsmanship.

BullishNiu

I read the first part and I was like, ah, the good ole days that I was never present.

And then toward the bottom, wait, is this the competetive forum?

[MOD]Polleus

BullishNiu wrote: »

I read the first part and I was like, ah, the good ole days that I was never present.

And the. Toward the bottom, wait, is this the competetive forum?

I'm not asking the normal group of competitive players, hence why it's in this section. I wanted the opinions of casual players in clans that don't necessarily take things as seriously as people in the competitive section.

imERICK

I'm also looking forward to hearing what people who aren't as competitive as us have to say.

Doumatjee456

Don't forget that this is a free to play game and ZP items/weapons is a way for Z8games to make money out of this game.
So don't complain about it in clan wars or public games, its a part of this game.. Deal with it or don't play crossfire.

BullishNiu

I do no think it matters, whether semi-un-competitive clans have strict rule or not. After all, it is not full competitive. If one wants an any day CW one simply does that. If one wants a more tactical and serious toned CW then one restricts one's weapons to non-pink fancy swirl patterned weapons. If one wants the CW to be even more restricted, one could even limit the whole thing to M4s only. (Armor shouldn't be a big issue at all)

The issue with semi-casual competitiveness in clans is that no one is on par with another at an given time. If one was competitive to any caliber, one would join a competitive clan. My short experience has been that casual and competitor members can not exist in the same clan, because they will hate each other for what they are.

What I perceive the clan system is, is to organize certain types players together. But it is vey difficult to make up a clan of people who have everything in common. The most basic type of clan is just a bunch of random people who want nothing more than to pub, and don't care what each other think. Then there is the fully competitive clan, made up of maybe only 5 people, who take CW very seriously. Such a clan cannot have very many people because of all the seriousness.

So in conclusion causal and competive clans should be very clearly defined.

[Denxi]

My only post on this thread, HF with this Polleus.

SooperPickle wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to participate in tournaments if people weren't ridiculed on being less skilled than another player/team.

Love it when people argue about who's better while choosing to play in an environment that is an inferior one for determining skill.

This attitude is probably going to be the biggest issue, and Sooper's stance is more than valid.

FrozenSyther wrote: »

The unnecessary rules such as no hats, bags, and ammo mags kinda disappoint me.

Ammo mags can and will be relevant. As for flair, I hate Sauce's Santa hat. Every time I try to HS him, it goes right through it

That's not to say it should be banned in a casual environment however, just that it IS necessary in a competitive one :O

[MOD]Polleus wrote: »

I'm not asking the normal group of competitive players, hence why it's in this section. I wanted the opinions of casual players in clans that don't necessarily take things as seriously as people in the competitive section.

The biggest issue you're going to have is a bunch of people bragging about who's better. Have fun with that :O

BullishNiu

Umm what I think is that when people complain about anything other than skill they are just QQing. I suck and I QQ. Some people are just taking this QQ too seriously and adding a bunć of rules to their tourney. It's like McDonald coffee spilling liability clauses.

R4M8ON3R

honestly no, I wouldn't want to face competitive teams with them + p stuff cause that extra 5 bullets or that extra wallbang will make them virtually unkillable even if you gave us the same weapons I rather see strict rules like now, although it would be fun to have a tourney with something in the lines of : no wallbang no armor no m14,m4pat,m4spring,SL,M12s,dual deags,mausers. basically everything that is Overpowered out and let the rest go which means all the item shop and all the crates as well

2fastSTREAK

Allowing zp items and changing the current ruleset to a less strict one is, for me, a lot more fun. Silenced guns aren't too big of a problem, so guns like m4-silver I don't mind at all. The only guns I have an issue with is 100% wall bang. The ruleset should allow pretty much everything but then take off guns like thompson/kriss/m4-patriot/m12s/m14ebr. In my opinion, guns like M4 royal/xm8/g36k should be allowed but with a limit of 1 100% wall bangable gun per round.

Reason being is that it will change strategies and setups and the way people hold sites. They can't sit behind a box and bait everyone because they'll be at a huge disadvantage; they would have to utilize peeking and teamwork to effectively hold something. However I do agree that 5 people spamming every single box with xm8 would be extremely unfair, so a limit of 1 would be the most practical. If only 1 person had the xm8 they'd have to be smart and they can't waste all their bullets.

EDIT: Character items shouldn't be allowed just because a lot of people will end up shooting their hat thinking it'll be a hs and end up dying. Extra mags also shouldn't be allowed. I don't see a problem with colored chat/names or things such as muzzle flames. Sprays should be allowed but only if they use their brain and don't purposely abuse it. I personally hate head armor, so I don't think it should be allowed. However body armor is fine and I'd have no problem if it was allowed.

Just a note I'm extremely tired so sorry about rambling and a ton of grammar mistakes, etc.

OniPony

if i'm allowed to use my m14, i'm okay

BullishNiu

R4M8ON3R wrote: »

honestly no, I wouldn't want to face competitive teams with them + p stuff cause that extra 5 bullets or that extra wallbang will make them virtually unkillable even if you gave us the same weapons I rather see strict rules like now, although it would be fun to have a tourney with something in the lines of : no wallbang no armor no m14,m4pat,m4spring,SL,M12s,dual deags,mausers. basically everything that is Overpowered out and let the rest go which means all the item shop and all the crates as well

If even you have the same weapons you can't kill them wouldn't that just be a matter of skill?

And Polleus how do you have a blue name?

IT_Aero

I see it as the restricted rule set makes you rely more on your aim, skill and strategy. Having things like 1 wall bang gun per team per round can add strategy yes and could be acceptable. But when you get into 5 people carrying a full wall bang gun boxes become completely useless, among the better wall bang guns having very little recoil. I think a more relaxed rule set would be great with things such as m4-silver, ak-camo, qbz-camo as you can actually combat these guns if you prefer a regular m4 or ak. Guns like the m14 and m4-royal dragon you get behind a box you automatically win no matter what gun you're against. I think the reason the scar-light used to be used in tourneys as it was a GP gun and available to everybody. When more OP zp guns came along they just decided to ban all OP weapons zp or not.

Adding allowable wallbang guns such as the xm8, type89, g36k for 1 player per round per team would be great as it does add strategy to the game. It's just the same as the 1-2 awms allowed per team in a lot of leagues/tournaments.

Regarding the character items I would say no. They're strictly for looks and you can shoot through some of them giving you an advantage of them shooting too high or to the side when they should be doing damage.

Armor? No. Armor is actually pretty expensive to have an upkeep of. The reason armor is allowed in CS is you don't have to pay actual money. It's the equivalent of GP in CF. Maybe if they could some how constitute a system where you have "Tournament Armor" or some sort. Where it is free to use but only during your tournament match then it could be allowed.

its_matt

I don't play much competitive, but I do play in Echo 8 often, and I really dislike it when people come in with M4-Silvers, or Patriots, and start ripping everyone. I feel like the gun is generally easier to use compared to the original. I know this because with the M4-Silver I can easily tap people, but with the original I actually have to aim well, and make sure I get a good shot.

Another thing I don't like during pugs and whatnot is the thrown weapon restrictions. I really don't see how the Bronze Grenade is going to affect the other players more than the original grenade, it does the same damage as far as I know, and it's your fault you got hit by it in the first place.

Other problems I've encountered are guns not being accepted into the competitive scene like AK-47 Gold, M4-Gold, and D.E. Gold. All these guns are close to their originals.

[MOD]Polleus

[MOD]Denxi wrote: »

The biggest issue you're going to have is a bunch of people bragging about who's better. Have fun with that :O

This is different from the more serious competitive players how? lol.

It's a video game. People are always going to stroke their e-peens. Moving on

imEXQUISITEE

I ran my own tournament about a month ago with some friends just to try it out.


We've had our problems with it, and people had their problems with us..

We tried to be less stricted on most things..

Heck if you find the "UGL" Thread you'd see, we basically went back and thought of every gun in this version and added it to the list, we then took out WALL BANG guns and proceeded.

Which is right here: http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=242224&highlight=Underground

Even with the less stricter rule set, people still was mad and bashing heavily on us for trying.

Ofc our "Anticheat" was bandicam, and alot of people had problems with that as well. Since some people have Terrible computers.

Even after all the sht talking that was directed my way, I still had fun, and would do it again too.

So, it doesn't matter if you have gun restrictions, character item restrictions, or just items in general..

The "Pubstars" or "Casual/Semi-Casual" Players won't even sign up. Maybe a Couple teams if you're lucky, they just aren't interested in Tournaments and such.

This is my feedback Polleus, Hopefully you have a better outcome than my friends and I did.

Juicy_V

Well i'm a casual gamer...i pretty much play every day. I'm just not intrested in playing tournaments or CW's simply because i dont feel that i need to prove myself to anyone.
Do i really need to prove i'm better than "Mr X"? No , not really. I'm playing this to relax and just have some fun. Apparantly the community takes this all far to serious for my sake.
You will be bashed, yelled at, called names, noob this camper that etc.

Like i said i play for fun...i'm not one of these so called pro's. No, i dont suck at this game..anyone that has played with me should be able to vouch for that...i hope ;-)
So if i want to use my m14 then i will use it because i like how it plays, i like how it looks.
So if my opponent wants to use his Scar then that's his choice and that is ok with me.
Yes at times i get annoyed with smg's in SD ...at times i could get tempted to go on a spray frenzie but i just don't. If i would use m12 with my current rank i would get kicked within 10 seconds....even though m12 is just a no skilled fun gun....but hey...isnt that just what casual gaming is about? Skill? who needs it...who wants it? You play for fun right? Do use the guns the game provides, u wanna look like a girl in a skirt with a spray gun then by all means be my guest...whatever makes your boat float...just have some freakin fun.

So to get back on topic, perhaps if this in game community with just keep their rotten opinions to them i would be willing to participate in a more competive manner such as in tournaments...but seeing how things are i'll just keep on doing my thing and ignore it all.
If i die i die, i dont rage to the person who killed me, next round or next match i rise again and maybe i can kick some butt. I will cheer in my head, no brag nor put anyone else down.