Make Alpha server MSgt.+ and +5% GP
In b4 someone says "there's already Delta server, and people aren't using it."
Well, no sheet, Sherlock. It's called inertia. People are used to clicking on Alpha right after they log in. Alpha, not Delta, should have been the server to receive the rank requirement in the first place.
Well, no sheet, Sherlock. It's called inertia. People are used to clicking on Alpha right after they log in. Alpha, not Delta, should have been the server to receive the rank requirement in the first place.
Comments
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In b4 someone says "there's already Delta server, and people aren't using it."
Well, no sheet, Sherlock. It's called inertia. People are used to clicking on Alpha right after they log in. Alpha, not Delta, should have been the server to receive the rank requirement in the first place.and why?
if alpha would of had that requirement then it would been delta thats full and not alpha so the point of this thread?
Did you not read what I wrote at all, or are your comprehension skills really that lacking? Making Delta a ranked server when Alpha is the major server would require positive action from the players (which does not happen, again, because of inertia) whereas making Alpha rank-restricted would be a negative check that would force low-ranked players to other servers. Get it now? -
and why?
if alpha would of had that requirement then it would been delta thats full and not alpha so the point of this thread?
nah, alpha would be at least half full imo because of reasons OP mentioned. Only people who wants to farm on low ranks will go to Delta then. -
wont happen. z8 wont shut out more players from their server.Did you not read what I wrote at all, or are your comprehension skills really that lacking? Making Delta a ranked server when Alpha is the major server would require positive action from the players (which does not happen, again, because of inertia) whereas making Alpha rank-restricted would be a negative check that would force low-ranked players to other servers. Get it now?
the reason why rookie server is there so low ranks could go learn to play there.
but ofcoure you got idiot like me and go into alpha right away.
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WarriorStick wrote: »nah, alpha would be at least half full imo because of reasons OP mentioned. Only people who wants to farm on low ranks will go to Delta then.
I literally pre-empted his argument in the first line of the OP. What happens? Someone posts the exact same argument that I addressed anyway. Jeez. Thank God the people on these forums aren't representative of the developed world's population as a whole (I hope).wont happen. z8 wont shut out more players from their server.
the reason why rookie server is there so low ranks could go learn to play there.
but ofcoure you got idiot like me and go into alpha right away.
This is what you should have posted in the first place, instead of the one thing that I already addressed. Now, yes, it would be shutting out some players from Alpha, but so what. They could just move to Bravo--and would most definitely do so since that would be the most viable option--which is already mostly full anyway. -
This is what you should have posted in the first place, instead of the one thing that I already addressed. Now, yes, it would be shutting out some players from Alpha, but so what. They could just move to Bravo--and would most definitely do so since that would be the most viable option--which is already mostly full anyway.
well look where i live in "idiot town" you cant ask much from me.
but yeah it means z8 got some work to change that server again and then the forum might get spammed of threads "i cant get in alpha" because there are even bigger idiots then me. (i know thats hard to believe but its true)
but you wont have much players left if you gonna shut out the low ranks.
btw big deal all they gonna do is farm it in bravo and then go into alpha.
it gonna keep them out for a day or 2 days. -
Its not Going to happen because its unfair to the low ranks who play in alpha and also because there are cheaters who are master sergeant and above who can pose as skilled due to their rank so it's a useless fix to it people only play in delta for the GP and its mostly the Brasilians.
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They should have made it Alpha instead of Delta in the first place. IMO it's not too late to change that. @Eli: you can say that it isn't going to happen, but not because it's "unfair"--Z8 does not give a sheet if you think something is fair or not; fairness is simply not their top criterion in decision-making.
Of course there are high ranked cheaters; this isn't intended to be a "fix." There is no perfect "fix" for cheaters, as far as I can see. But this should mitigate some things. And if such a change causes people to spam the forums, then so what. It's already full of spam anyway. The ocean can take another drop of water. -
well its 5%gp right? its not just a click and its changed its alot more work.They should have made it Alpha instead of Delta in the first place. IMO it's not too late to change that. @Eli: you can say that it isn't going to happen, but not because it's "unfair"--Z8 does not give a sheet if you think something is fair or not; fairness is simply not their top criterion in decision-making.
Of course there are high ranked cheaters; this isn't intended to be a "fix." There is no perfect "fix" for cheaters, as far as I can see. But this should mitigate some things. And if such a change causes people to spam the forums, then so what. It's already full of spam anyway. The ocean can take another drop of water.
also if you wont care for the spam well i do and mods do aswell.
why make it wrose of spamming?
its 5% gp come on i wouldnt even spent time on that to change it. you can earn like 30k each month and thats only the mission of 500gp. dont you get enough gp for free yet? for the rank thing then people just farm it up there and done also it shut out low ranks thats unfair there are other servers like that dont add more of those. -
What they did to Delta, they should have done to Alpha instead. That's all I'm saying. I don't care about the extra GP, and no one else does--that's why people keep clicking on Alpha instead of Delta. Not going to wade through any more poorly written, barely coherent responses. G'night.
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Lol that's been discovered but in the end its not about the players it's about the profit seeing as most people are already adjusted to alpha and bravo it will cause them to lose people because not everyone is going to want to change servers and in turn losing money, Alpha is their biggest server filled with low and high ranks, it's basically the main attraction when coming to play CF, people still rely in an anti cheat to stop hackers which I don't see happening in the near future, they want a quick fix not a progressive one that includes change, and many people who play are like that. CF does care about fairness but mainly when it concerns profits, they don't care about the foolish little things that many players want that don't make an impact into improving the game, they are more focused on what steps to improve it, but least cost expensive.
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BookofElijah wrote: »Lol that's been discovered but in the end its not about the players it's about the profit seeing as most people are already adjusted to alpha and bravo it will cause them to lose people because not everyone is going to want to change servers and in turn losing money, Alpha is their biggest server filled with low and high ranks, it's basically the main attraction when coming to play CF, people still rely in an anti cheat to stop hackers which I don't see happening in the near future, they want a quick fix not a progressive one that includes change, and many people who play are like that.
Biggest run-on sentence I've ever seen in my life. How did you get past the 1st grade with your horrid grammar skills?
OT: +1 I agree. Completely. I really don't know what Saidin was smoking when he gave this idea to the devs. -
BookofElijah wrote: »Lol that's been discovered but in the end its not about the players it's about the profit seeing as most people are already adjusted to alpha and bravo it will cause them to lose people because not everyone is going to want to change servers and in turn losing money, Alpha is their biggest server filled with low and high ranks, it's basically the main attraction when coming to play CF, people still rely in an anti cheat to stop hackers which I don't see happening in the near future, they want a quick fix not a progressive one that includes change, and many people who play are like that. CF does care about fairness but mainly when it concerns profits, they don't care about the foolish little things that many players want that don't make an impact into improving the game, they are more focused on what steps to improve it, but least cost expensive.
I don't really see how there would be a decrease in profit if Alpha has rank req. It is not like people would quit the game since Alpha,Bravo,Delta = same ping. -
Wisconsinn wrote: »Biggest run-on sentence I've ever seen in my life. How did you get past the 1st grade with your horrid grammar skills?
OT: +1 I agree. Completely. I really don't know what Saidin was smoking when he gave this idea to the devs.
Typing on an iPod is structured different from typing on a keyboard, keep your idiotic grammar criticism away, for it is completely irrelevant to the OP. I excelled through all my grades in English so far, so I don't need some forum stranger attempting to insult my post and going off-topic. -
BookofElijah wrote: »Simple... People are lazy and don't like change.
ROFL. You are joking right?
Currently: People click Alpha (even though no rank req. or +GP) because it is their habit.
If we implement this idea: People will click Alphal, they realize they can't get in and will likely go to Bravo.
They won't be like " f this, I'm quitting". -
So they can deal with the exact same problem which is even worse in Bravo? Are you serious, a few will quit after a few months or so of exposure if the hack ridden environment in Bravo. Bravo is worse than Pha, so we should make it worse for legit low rankers and only care about high ranked legit players.. This idea sounds pretty selfish and shouldn't be implemented on its self beneficial reasons, rather than benefiting the major if the cf community. If you want a ranked server play in the empty channels in Delta an leave Alpha as it is, it's just fine, want to eliminate hackers play with friends and vote kick them. You want to play without hackers so bad, stop relying on Z8 to play superman and take the steps to improvement yourselves.
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Elijah makes some valid points, but I still think it could be made to work. Continuing the string of conversation from the few above posts, let's assume that Bravo really is even worse than Alpha in terms of the cheating situation.
Welp, I never said they had to rank restrict Alpha right now, at this exact moment. Wait until we have our next Paxtr Romana (God knows how long it'll be until then, though lol), then switch Alpha and Delta server requirements. No cheaters in Bravo = people barred from Alpha will just move to Bravo, just like they do when Alpha is too full. Only difference is, instead of it being a deviation in server selection, we're creating a permanent realignment where many Alpha players relocate to Bravo.
No matter what, we should be able to agree that Alpha should have been chosen as the special server instead of Delta in the first place (years ago). Whether or not that is a moot point is what we're really debating here. I say no, it's not a moot point. Better late than never.BookofElijah wrote: »If you want a ranked server play in the empty channels in Delta an leave Alpha as it is
Which will never happen because:BookofElijah wrote: »Simple... People are lazy and don't like change.
You can say it's selfish, but it's not really any more selfish than creating a ranked server--any ranked server--in the first place. Making Alpha rank restricted would be no more selfish than making Delta rank restricted. Just to be redundantly redundant, Alpha should have been the server Z8 selected in the first place. This isn't just about being selfish; it's about rectifying a miscalculated decision.
So for the hundredth time, I think that Z8 should (sooner or later, preferably when cheating is at a low level) switch the server requirements for Alpha and Delta. Best tautological post NA. -
BookofElijah wrote: »So they can deal with the exact same problem which is even worse in Bravo? Are you serious, a few will quit after a few months or so of exposure if the hack ridden environment in Bravo. Bravo is worse than Pha, so we should make it worse for legit low rankers and only care about high ranked legit players.. This idea sounds pretty selfish and shouldn't be implemented on its self beneficial reasons, rather than benefiting the major if the cf community. If you want a ranked server play in the empty channels in Delta an leave Alpha as it is, it's just fine, want to eliminate hackers play with friends and vote kick them. You want to play without hackers so bad, stop relying on Z8 to play superman and take the steps to improvement yourselves.
Let's make a simple model of this situation:
For simplicity let us assume ONLY low ranks hack. Lets say 20% of low ranks hack which is 10% of entire CF population.
Let's say 10000 people play in Alpha which consists 5000 low ranks and 5000 high ranks. Therefore 1000 people hack in Alpha.
In Bravo, 5000 players which consists of 2500 low ranks and 2500 high ranks. Therefore, 500 people hack in Bravo.
In this example, 13500 people are unhappy because they have to play with hackers.
Now let us assume if there was a ranker req. in Alpha. There would be no hackers and 5000 players. In Bravo, since all 5000 low ranks from Alpha came, they have a population of 10000. There would be 1500 hackers. Now let us see how many unhappy people we have...only 8500.
One of the most important thing is to consider marginal cost in this case. The marginal cost declines after 1 hacker. It means if you see 1 hacker you get unhappy by lets say 5 points. But when you see the 2nd hacker your happiness only decreases by 2. Since one of the hackers are just going to aim.bot you either way. -
Hm... I would assess it a little differently.
To modify your model, let's imagine that there are
10 000 players in Alpha
3 000 high rank, 7 000 low rank
0 high rank cheaters, 2 000 low rank cheaters
5 000 players in Bravo
1 500 high rank, 3 500 low rank
0 high rank cheaters, 1 500 low rank cheaters
The problem with rank restricting Alpha is that you're kicking out 5 000 "innocent" players (the "unfair" part here, as Elijah pointed out). Plus, it leaves the previously "main" server with only 3 000 players. The worry is that these players will be attracted to the more populous (albeit more cheat-infested) Bravo server--yes, there are people who value populous servers over cheat-free ones--which leaves Alpha as a ghost server. We would need something to prevent major attrition from Alpha server. To that end, I think that we would have to raise the incentive from an extra 5% to something higher. (Sorry for the switching between verb tenses; hope it doesn't bother any grammar fanatics.)
This is why any server realignment needs to occur during a non-cheating period in CF (like the months of April-June 2012). -
Hm... I would assess it a little differently.
To modify your model, let's imagine that there are
10 000 players in Alpha
3 000 high rank, 7 000 low rank
0 high rank cheaters, 2 000 low rank cheaters
5 000 players in Bravo
1 500 high rank, 3 500 low rank
0 high rank cheaters, 1 500 low rank cheaters
The problem with rank restricting Alpha is that you're kicking out 5 000 "innocent" players (the "unfair" part here, as Elijah pointed out). Plus, it leaves the previously "main" server with only 3 000 players. The worry is that these players will be attracted to the more populous (albeit more cheat-infested) Bravo server--yes, there are people who value populous servers over cheat-free ones--which leaves Alpha as a ghost server. We would need something to prevent major attrition from Alpha server. To that end, I think that we would have to raise the incentive from an extra 5% to something higher. (Sorry for the switching between verb tenses; hope it doesn't bother any grammar fanatics.)
This is why any server realignment needs to occur during a non-cheating period in CF (like the months of April-June 2012).
As Elijah mentioned we should maximize happiness rather than thinking about "fairness". Maximizing happiness=minimizing unhappiness. Marginal Unhappiness is not linear but curved. Therefore if we concentrate just a little bit more in one server, happiness would be greater overall. -
WarriorStick wrote: »As Elijah mentioned we should maximize happiness rather than thinking about "fairness". Maximizing happiness=minimizing unhappiness. Marginal Unhappiness is not linear but curved. Therefore if we concentrate just a little bit more in one server, happiness would be greater overall.
I'm not talking about utilitarianism here. What I'm saying is that the change would be pointless if there's no one left in Alpha. Which would be the case if the rank restriction were implemented right now. -
I'm not talking about utilitarianism here. What I'm saying is that the change would be pointless if there's no one left in Alpha. Which would be the case if the rank restriction were implemented right now.
I think the extra 5 percent gp + the habit of entering Alpha + legit people that value no hackers over pop. will be more than enough to prevent Alpha from turning into a "ghost server". -
WarriorStick wrote: »I think the extra 5 percent gp + the habit of entering Alpha + legit people that value no hackers over pop. will be more than enough to prevent Alpha from turning into a "ghost server".
Better safe than sorry. The 5% on Delta is like a morbidly ineffective price ceiling. Would suck to make that kind of mistake again. -
Hm... I would assess it a little differently.
To modify your model, let's imagine that there are
10 000 players in Alpha
3 000 high rank, 7 000 low rank
0 high rank cheaters, 2 000 low rank cheaters
5 000 players in Bravo
1 500 high rank, 3 500 low rank
0 high rank cheaters, 1 500 low rank cheaters
The problem with rank restricting Alpha is that you're kicking out 5 000 "innocent" players (the "unfair" part here, as Elijah pointed out). Plus, it leaves the previously "main" server with only 3 000 players. The worry is that these players will be attracted to the more populous (albeit more cheat-infested) Bravo server--yes, there are people who value populous servers over cheat-free ones--which leaves Alpha as a ghost server. We would need something to prevent major attrition from Alpha server. To that end, I think that we would have to raise the incentive from an extra 5% to something higher. (Sorry for the switching between verb tenses; hope it doesn't bother any grammar fanatics.)
This is why any server realignment needs to occur during a non-cheating period in CF (like the months of April-June 2012).
I see a way in which you can influence the absence of most hackers in Alpha, which is to take a ghost server such as charlie and populate it as the server to be in, requiring assistance from z8 by hosting events and adding 8% GP+ to the server, hackers want to be around big servers, to hack and anger people for their own benefit, so once you migrate from alpha to a server such as charlie, they will be inclined to follow to fulfill their satisfactory want to irritate players. Then after a period of time, maybe say 2-5 months, when it's stabilized, slowly migrate back to Alpha, and work from there, or make a community of legit players & clans, get the players who can translate and work from there, like the Coalition of Legit Clans idea, but make it like a Community of people that play together, whenever you want to enjoy a hack free room, gather up a group of people depending on how many you have, set a password, or a room limit and fill with majority of your players, so whenever a hacker is to enter it's easy to kick he/she.
I could see if we were an MMORPG like Last Chaos, Metin 2, or WoW where they have ranked servers so skilled players can play with skilled players, but people make alt accounts to play with different clans. Also, we have high ranked hackers who can pass as legit due to their rank or their incredible ability to toggle, or play it off as skill by not being obliviously blatant, for people in servers such as Alpha seem to doubt many players who say someone is hacking, unless they witness the hacking themselves, or said hacker has friends in that game. I have witnessed games where a hacker was playing and he/she's friends were able to kick legit players who were trying to kick the hacker, because people, 1. Didn't pay attention to what they were voting to, 2. They believed it, because they haven't witnessed it, or 3. They find it amusing, which is rare. This takes more thought than to just create a ranked server on the most trafficked server in Crossfire. Putting in a rank requirement doesn't eliminate all hackers from the server, it just eliminates the people who don't have the required rank, consider the idea and the consequences which are bestowed upon all, if not majority, of players that play on that server. -
It doesn't really matter if you're making Alpha or Bravo the "ranked" server. The principle is the same. Using Alpha is simply more practical, because as you said, people are lazy and inert. If it were Charlie, it would have to be more than just 8%, which Z8 would already consider too much. Like I said, the 5% on Delta is like a super-ineffective price ceiling. 8% is still ineffective.
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It doesn't really matter if you're making Alpha or Bravo the "ranked" server. The principle is the same. Using Alpha is simply more practical, because as you said, people are lazy and inert. If it were Charlie, it would have to be more than just 8%, which Z8 would already consider too much. Like I said, the 5% on Delta is like a super-ineffective price ceiling. 8% is still ineffective.
You meant to say Master Sargent, correct? I'm unsure what you mean because you keep mentioning just switching alpha and delta(req).
Anyway, this thread... I thought people wouldn't do it after you said it but wow...
I totally agree with the idea though. Putting the Master Sargent req on alpha is a totally revolutionary and, quite frankly, brilliant idea. I really wish z8 would respond to our cries, like the games dying due to hackers anyway, what the f***? Seriously?
tldr +1 -
If so there will be a flood of people going to alpha and the server will be full in a matter of hours, leaving more high ranked players who come on later to be stuck with the low ranked hackers, we'd soon need 2+ ranked servers because we've got to remember crossfire doesn't have a small database, and we also have numerous farmers, old players with high ranks, people who buy high ranked accounts for ridiculous prices on other sites, this idea is good, but it's not foolproof it still has a few faults, the best solution is z8 or G4 spending money to buy a great working hack detector/ anti-cheat for the game, it'll increase the player base and old players will return. This will bring in more profit for the game, but z8 doesn't seem to be at that stage apparently, for the moment were stuck with xtrap, also high ranked legit players can easily switch to cheating buying good cheats which are easy to toggle and hide.
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BookofElijah wrote: »If so there will be a flood of people going to alpha and the server will be full in a matter of hours, leaving more high ranked players who come on later to be stuck with the low ranked hackers, we'd soon need 2+ ranked servers because we've got to remember crossfire doesn't have a small database, and we also have numerous farmers, old players with high ranks, people who buy high ranked accounts for ridiculous prices on other sites, this idea is good, but it's not foolproof it still has a few faults, the best solution is z8 or G4 spending money to buy a great working hack detector/ anti-cheat for the game, it'll increase the player base and old players will return. This will bring in more profit for the game, but z8 doesn't seem to be at that stage apparently, for the moment were stuck with xtrap, also high ranked legit players can easily switch to cheating buying good cheats which are easy to toggle and hide.
I agree with most of what you said. Thank you for presenting your points intelligently throughout the thread. It's a pretty rare thing on these forums
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