Bleak versus Bright: CrossFire's Precarious Position
Hey guys.
"This game is dead."
This line, or some variation thereof, has echoed hundreds of times throughout these forums. One only has to look at Doop's signature in order to gauge the current attitude that plagues the community. With the closure of WoGL's doors, the cancelling of ESG, and the continued problematic attitude that the CF community exudes on the whole, the future of the competitive scene looks bleak.
Indeed, Doop. Here's to being scrim stars. With many of the current top players leaving the scene or moving on, and big names such as team "hammertime" disappearing, the scene itself is shrinking. The attitudes of remaining players get in the way of further growth, and the staff seem to offer minimal or no help.
And yet...
WCG has announced its destination for next year; in China, with CrossFire yet again on the roster. In recent weeks, a host of new livestreams and casters have become active. In March, there is a player-organized LAN. A convocade of new leagues and tournaments are arriving. Previous pubstars, both individuals and entire clans, are entering the competitive scene every day.
CrossFire's future is looking the brightest it has in quite a while. It is perched precariously, ready to jump forward to new heights, or fall into obscurity.
With proper cultivation, CrossFire's LANs and Leagues can develop into long-term player-ran and z8games-supported events, with worthwhile prizes and league anti-cheats.
The streams can, with collective and collaborative advertisement, grow to thousands of viewers per cast.
The new and noob players, with equal parts encouragement and rivalry, can quickly become formidable opponents.
The purpose of this thread, then, is to both provide direction and stimulate discussion regarding the competitive future of CrossFire. Now, I have some experience with online communities and reviving them, but the goals as I see them are in no way set in stone. Please, disagree and debate with me. The more we discuss this, the more opportunities we have to find innovations.
I am so ****ing glad that livestreams seem to finally be picking up. Livestreams are the best way to get larger industries to take note of the game, or to sponsor it. If you can show an industry that you have a large viewer base, your value to them rises immensely. They frankly don't care about how large your competitive scene is; they want to know that viewers will tune in if you stream them.
Yet, even if every competitive player watched the finals of a tournament, the number of views would come nowhere close to even a thousand. So where does CrossFire get its views from?
The answer is quite apparent; the pubstars. While this game is struggling competitively, there are millions of players worldwide. With over 5 different versions of the game worldwide, and as the largest F2P first-person shooter, CrossFire has a massive member base. The key is to reach this member base, and to have them tune in to watch the casts.
My first suggestion on this front is to speak with everyone who streams CrossFire currently (such as, recently, FireFerret and Matt2k), and to set up an organized group of streamers and casters. This group will coordinate with tournament hosts, players, and z8games to reach a wider audience base. By having a stream scheduled a week or more in advance, as well as casters, z8games will then be able to advertise the stream officially.
My second suggestion is that several of the top players in the game hold a livestream segment every week detailing certain aspects of the game from a professional perspective. This could be anything from a game analysis (taking a specific round and breaking down an amazing play) to explaining how to hold off a push when playing a certain site. This segment would also contain player interviews, match highlights, and, perhaps, a scrim or two. This could get many other players interested in joining the competitive scene (I know it would me, if I were a pub-star watching).
While it's true that pubstars are the basis of growing the scene, without tournaments or leagues there is no competitive scene at all.
My only suggestion on this front is simple in nature. Tournament hosts (both current and potential future ones) communicate. Essentially, they form a group of tournaments; one giant league, so to speak. They work together to make sure that their tournaments don't overlap, and that issues in one event can be resolved for the next.
Communication in a free manner like that would be difficult to find, so I propose a slightly modified solution. All tournament hosts form a universal CrossFire League (UCL). This league has a unified ruleset (the hosts all have an equal say, and disagreements are settled by anonymous vote), and each tournament has a $15.00 entry fee per team (or $10.00). This will help with the planning of tournaments, as well as providing many more opportunities than if each host acted alone. Cooperation is key.
That's all I have for now; I'm tired. I'm sure I'll have more to say when I'm more awake. Until then, please, comment; I'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions.
"This game is dead."
This line, or some variation thereof, has echoed hundreds of times throughout these forums. One only has to look at Doop's signature in order to gauge the current attitude that plagues the community. With the closure of WoGL's doors, the cancelling of ESG, and the continued problematic attitude that the CF community exudes on the whole, the future of the competitive scene looks bleak.
Indeed, Doop. Here's to being scrim stars. With many of the current top players leaving the scene or moving on, and big names such as team "hammertime" disappearing, the scene itself is shrinking. The attitudes of remaining players get in the way of further growth, and the staff seem to offer minimal or no help.
And yet...
WCG has announced its destination for next year; in China, with CrossFire yet again on the roster. In recent weeks, a host of new livestreams and casters have become active. In March, there is a player-organized LAN. A convocade of new leagues and tournaments are arriving. Previous pubstars, both individuals and entire clans, are entering the competitive scene every day.
CrossFire's future is looking the brightest it has in quite a while. It is perched precariously, ready to jump forward to new heights, or fall into obscurity.
With proper cultivation, CrossFire's LANs and Leagues can develop into long-term player-ran and z8games-supported events, with worthwhile prizes and league anti-cheats.
The streams can, with collective and collaborative advertisement, grow to thousands of viewers per cast.
The new and noob players, with equal parts encouragement and rivalry, can quickly become formidable opponents.
The purpose of this thread, then, is to both provide direction and stimulate discussion regarding the competitive future of CrossFire. Now, I have some experience with online communities and reviving them, but the goals as I see them are in no way set in stone. Please, disagree and debate with me. The more we discuss this, the more opportunities we have to find innovations.
Livestreaming
I am so ****ing glad that livestreams seem to finally be picking up. Livestreams are the best way to get larger industries to take note of the game, or to sponsor it. If you can show an industry that you have a large viewer base, your value to them rises immensely. They frankly don't care about how large your competitive scene is; they want to know that viewers will tune in if you stream them.
Yet, even if every competitive player watched the finals of a tournament, the number of views would come nowhere close to even a thousand. So where does CrossFire get its views from?
The answer is quite apparent; the pubstars. While this game is struggling competitively, there are millions of players worldwide. With over 5 different versions of the game worldwide, and as the largest F2P first-person shooter, CrossFire has a massive member base. The key is to reach this member base, and to have them tune in to watch the casts.
My first suggestion on this front is to speak with everyone who streams CrossFire currently (such as, recently, FireFerret and Matt2k), and to set up an organized group of streamers and casters. This group will coordinate with tournament hosts, players, and z8games to reach a wider audience base. By having a stream scheduled a week or more in advance, as well as casters, z8games will then be able to advertise the stream officially.
My second suggestion is that several of the top players in the game hold a livestream segment every week detailing certain aspects of the game from a professional perspective. This could be anything from a game analysis (taking a specific round and breaking down an amazing play) to explaining how to hold off a push when playing a certain site. This segment would also contain player interviews, match highlights, and, perhaps, a scrim or two. This could get many other players interested in joining the competitive scene (I know it would me, if I were a pub-star watching).
Tournaments / Leagues
While it's true that pubstars are the basis of growing the scene, without tournaments or leagues there is no competitive scene at all.
My only suggestion on this front is simple in nature. Tournament hosts (both current and potential future ones) communicate. Essentially, they form a group of tournaments; one giant league, so to speak. They work together to make sure that their tournaments don't overlap, and that issues in one event can be resolved for the next.
Communication in a free manner like that would be difficult to find, so I propose a slightly modified solution. All tournament hosts form a universal CrossFire League (UCL). This league has a unified ruleset (the hosts all have an equal say, and disagreements are settled by anonymous vote), and each tournament has a $15.00 entry fee per team (or $10.00). This will help with the planning of tournaments, as well as providing many more opportunities than if each host acted alone. Cooperation is key.
That's all I have for now; I'm tired. I'm sure I'll have more to say when I'm more awake. Until then, please, comment; I'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions.
Comments
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1. Stop mentioning my name, and if you don't know the inside joke behind my signature please don't reference it.
2. Everyone will be back in may/june for WCG 2013. This is the same as last year and the year before that. This isn't something new.
Joke or not, Doop, it is an accurate representation of the mindset here.
And, I am aware that people will come back then. I am hoping to improve the scene year-round, and not have only that month or two to look forward to. Cycles aren't unbreakable. -
Joke or not, Doop, it is an accurate representation of the mindset here.
And, I am aware that people will come back then. I am hoping to improve the scene year-round, and not have only that month or two to look forward to. Cycles aren't unbreakable.
The cycles exist, because WCG has been the only legitimate tournament since 2010. Until FG League launches there really isn't a point to play competitively.
As for live streaming, you are assuming that pub players would even want to watch "cf pros" stream. Unless you are a competitive player following FPS streams is a bit tedious. There are reasons as to why FPS streamers can't even compete with MOBA/RTS streamers.
z8 has successful held stream events, but that was mainly because there were prizes or some other award/incentive to tune in. Unless one could provide these things regularly you are just being idealistic.
As for tournaments, until somebody else steps up and secures a working ACS as well as provides a CASH prize there is no point to really talk about it. These small side tournaments have been going on since early 2009 and there is no real reason to stop/eliminate them. Having only 1 league will once again make the game stale like it was with WOGL s2.
I don't know how new you are to this community, but you really should look back on the entirety of NA CF before you go off making motivational speeches. All of the things people keep posting have already been done and failed. -
To dissect your post as best I can I'll start with your first sub section.
1. I'm pretty sure everyone prior to WCG qualifiers starting has the mindset that the game is dead, like doop said it's nothing new. The past 3 years (excluding early 2011 since WOGL was still around then), the game has been dormant up until any news of an international event was officially announced. Community ran tournaments will keep around a small crowd amused for a short amount of time, an event like WCG attracts way more players and way more teams because they have the means and provide enough motivation for people to play it.
2. Live streaming isn't as big of a deal as you claim it is. For you to make the claim that "Livestreams are the best way to get larger industries to take note of the game, or to sponsor it" is just down right stupidity. Companies definitely look at streams of community ran events with a total of 60 people watching and think "hey, this game looks promising we should look into it!", sike. "So where does CrossFire get its views from? The answer is quite apparent; the pubstars"...what views are you referring to? I'm pretty sure the most views on a stream to recent date was lifeline vs pdf and it barely broke 70. If you're referring to WCG nationals in new york, the amount of people from other games actually watching the stream was pretty large. That wasn't the pubstars like you seem to think. And if you're referring to the grand finals in Kunshan, I don't even have to tell you how big the player base of crossfire is in Asia.
3. Yeah great idea let's all play $15 for the "universal crossfire league" lololol. Honestly you need to re-read some of the hot garbage you wrote in this thread because it's really sad. On top of that, why would people pay $15 to play on bandicam? The only way people would spend money to join a league is if it had a 3rd party anti cheat and until frost league rolls around, and it's up to the community to come up with the funds to create an actual league and enough money to hire a coder.
Don't get confused and think this is me being pessimistic, it's just that half the things you wrote in this thread are just completely idealistic and much of it is false. If you want to continue this conversation, daddy will give you his xfire. -
These smaller tournaments do nothing but keep the same small amount of teams/players occupied until wcg comes around. They're nothing more then just something to pass time by until WCG roles back around.
I honestly think until someone pulls out a decently coded AC and a properly ran league nothing will change. No one wants to pay money to play in a league or game when some teen who doesnt care is just going to cheat everyone else out of money. -Exact reason I do not think my team should particpate in XFamousX's stupid league.
FG lan giving a little hope with their player-ran lan, but even then its so sloppy and nothings comfirmed.
I wish sadiin would just hand us a little bit of dat $$ he making, let us pay for an AC and have someone like Erick run a league.
Edit: if you think bandi cam is a proper AC you a joke. Even wogl couldn't keep up, Tasty has proven to cheat on that serval times.
OFT: Nice sig bruce -
As for tournaments, until somebody else steps up and secures a working ACS as well as provides a CASH prize there is no point to really talk about it. These small side tournaments have been going on since early 2009 and there is no real reason to stop/eliminate them. Having only 1 league will once again make the game stale like it was with WOGL s2
the only thing that could be suggested for this would indeed be cash prizes, if someone or some gaming entity in the near future could do what ESL does for Europe which is essentially Weekly cash prizes then a monthly finals dishing out the finals payout which is pretty much called the GO4CF weekly cup.
that would probably be enough incentive for a lot of the players.
you are however correct with the description of the "cycle" its in europe to, most people leave Crossfire Europe after the ESL major series and then come back for the next season. i think its like that with a lot of games to be honest but some more than others. -
...you are however correct with the description of the "cycle"...
The cycle exists in every game. FPS isn't like LoL or SC2 where the meta game is constantly changing, or in the case of LoL new champions are added bi-weekly or whatever.
Once you know how to play CF...like REALLY play CF, you can pretty much quit and go back to playing CS or whatever. The skill ceiling in CF is low, the competitive playerbase is small. WCG is announced and a flurry of people will come back, put a team together two weeks before the tournament, and still be able to do fairly well. -
Edit: Just going to highlight key points of my post, for those who don't want to chop through it.
Oh dear.
Regarding the "UCL" idea, I did not mean a single league in the sense of only one tournament at a time. Rather, a coalition of tournament hosts so that they could host their tournaments in more timely manners, and coordinate with some sort of ranking system / prize system.The cycles exist, because WCG has been the only legitimate tournament since 2010. Until FG League launches there really isn't a point to play competitively.
As for live streaming, you are assuming that pub players would even want to watch "cf pros" stream. Unless you are a competitive player following FPS streams is a bit tedious. There are reasons as to why FPS streamers can't even compete with MOBA/RTS streamers.
z8 has successful held stream events, but that was mainly because there were prizes or some other award/incentive to tune in. Unless one could provide these things regularly you are just being idealistic.
As for tournaments, until somebody else steps up and secures a working ACS as well as provides a CASH prize there is no point to really talk about it. These small side tournaments have been going on since early 2009 and there is no real reason to stop/eliminate them. Having only 1 league will once again make the game stale like it was with WOGL s2.
I don't know how new you are to this community, but you really should look back on the entirety of NA CF before you go off making motivational speeches. All of the things people keep posting have already been done and failed.
I agree with you completely. Without cash prizes or anti-cheats, there isn't as much we can do. Those are the best way to provide interest in joining tournaments, bar none.
However, this thread is designed to show alternative ways of growing the community, since a huge influx of cash is very unlikely to happen on its own.
And, regarding your incentives to watching livestreams...why don't streamers work together with z8games to offer prizes on their livestreams? That could potentially skyrocket viewership. I'm not sure what z8games' attitude is on this, but neither am I aware of any discussion.
As for pubstars watching professional casts...the majority of the players I speak to like watching professional play. I've linked hundreds of people to various casts on youtube; they tend to enjoy them. While you do bring up a valid concern, I feel as if a mix of good casting and high-level play can overcome this.
Regarding your done and failed...I am aware, sadly. I simply hope to break that cycle.lionheartxo wrote: »To dissect your post as best I can I'll start with your first sub section.
1. I'm pretty sure everyone prior to WCG qualifiers starting has the mindset that the game is dead, like doop said it's nothing new. The past 3 years (excluding early 2011 since WOGL was still around then), the game has been dormant up until any news of an international event was officially announced. Community ran tournaments will keep around a small crowd amused for a short amount of time, an event like WCG attracts way more players and way more teams because they have the means and provide enough motivation for people to play it.
I agree, but it is possible to grow that small crowd. One only has to look at this recent Veracity tournament; while, yes, some of the better teams declined to join, it has brought out a few completely new ones. Do I think that is enough to shift the downward spiral? No, not in the slightest. But, it is a start.lionheartxo wrote: »2. Live streaming isn't as big of a deal as you claim it is. For you to make the claim that "Livestreams are the best way to get larger industries to take note of the game, or to sponsor it" is just down right stupidity. Companies definitely look at streams of community ran events with a total of 60 people watching and think "hey, this game looks promising we should look into it!", sike. "So where does CrossFire get its views from? The answer is quite apparent; the pubstars"...what views are you referring to? I'm pretty sure the most views on a stream to recent date was lifeline vs pdf and it barely broke 70. If you're referring to WCG nationals in new york, the amount of people from other games actually watching the stream was pretty large. That wasn't the pubstars like you seem to think. And if you're referring to the grand finals in Kunshan, I don't even have to tell you how big the player base of crossfire is in Asia.
I'm not speaking of any a preexisting streamer base; I'm completely aware that the current one is minimal. I'm speaking of reaching out to the pubstars, not that they already watch the stream.
The fact of the matter is that, via large viewership on stream, you can show companies your value to them far more than the size of your competitive scene. As I mentioned before, if your competitive scene has 1,000 players, and your livestreams still only tick up to 990 views, then you're still not very likely to pick up sponsorship for other tournament events (other than, perhaps, small ones).
This is an exaggeration, of course; few companies really care until the streams are in the tens of thousands. But, it is a start.lionheartxo wrote: »3. Yeah great idea let's all play $15 for the "universal crossfire league" lololol. Honestly you need to re-read some of the hot garbage you wrote in this thread because it's really sad. On top of that, why would people pay $15 to play on bandicam? The only way people would spend money to join a league is if it had a 3rd party anti cheat and until frost league rolls around, and it's up to the community to come up with the funds to create an actual league and enough money to hire a coder.
I agree; I was not saying that 15 dollars would be for a bandicam only, but rather a means of aiding in the community to pay for such an anticheat or other such measures. As I mentioned above, it's very unlikely that a huge amount of cash will flow into the game. Alternative options, then, should be discussed. If entry-fees for tournaments can help ease the burden of an anti-cheat, then it should be considered.lionheartxo wrote: »Don't get confused and think this is me being pessimistic, it's just that half the things you wrote in this thread are just completely idealistic and much of it is false.
I agree, to a point. They are idealistic (though not false), and potentially none of them would have an impact.
Yet they could, and I wanted to stimulate discussion in that direction. Instead of bemoaning "this community is dying, we have no money to form tournaments", moving toward discussing potential solutions. -
*Cough* What life?Edit: Just going to highlight key points of my post, for those who don't want to chop through it.
Oh dear.
Regarding the "UCL" idea, I did not mean a single league in the sense of only one tournament at a time. Rather, a coalition of tournament hosts so that they could host their tournaments in more timely manners, and coordinate with some sort of ranking system / prize system.
I agree with you completely. Without cash prizes or anti-cheats, there isn't as much we can do. Those are the best way to provide interest in joining tournaments, bar none.
However, this thread is designed to show alternative ways of growing the community, since a huge influx of cash is very unlikely to happen on its own.
And, regarding your incentives to watching livestreams...why don't streamers work together with z8games to offer prizes on their livestreams? That could potentially skyrocket viewership. I'm not sure what z8games' attitude is on this, but neither am I aware of any discussion.
As for pubstars watching professional casts...the majority of the players I speak to like watching professional play. I've linked hundreds of people to various casts on youtube; they tend to enjoy them. While you do bring up a valid concern, I feel as if a mix of good casting and high-level play can overcome this.
Regarding your done and failed...I am aware, sadly. I simply hope to break that cycle.
I agree, but it is possible to grow that small crowd. One only has to look at this recent Veracity tournament; while, yes, some of the better teams declined to join, it has brought out a few completely new ones. Do I think that is enough to shift the downward spiral? No, not in the slightest. But, it is a start.
I'm not speaking of any a preexisting streamer base; I'm completely aware that the current one is minimal. I'm speaking of reaching out to the pubstars, not that they already watch the stream.
The fact of the matter is that, via large viewership on stream, you can show companies your value to them far more than the size of your competitive scene. As I mentioned before, if your competitive scene has 1,000 players, and your livestreams still only tick up to 990 views, then you're still not very likely to pick up sponsorship for other tournament events (other than, perhaps, small ones).
This is an exaggeration, of course; few companies really care until the streams are in the tens of thousands. But, it is a start.
I agree; I was not saying that 15 dollars would be for a bandicam only, but rather a means of aiding in the community to pay for such an anticheat or other such measures. As I mentioned above, it's very unlikely that a huge amount of cash will flow into the game. Alternative options, then, should be discussed. If entry-fees for tournaments can help ease the burden of an anti-cheat, then it should be considered.
I agree, to a point. They are idealistic (though not false), and potentially none of them would have an impact.
Yet they could, and I wanted to stimulate discussion in that direction. Instead of bemoaning "this community is dying, we have no money to form tournaments", moving toward discussing potential solutions.
//joke -
The money for prizes came from z8.
I do think that z8games should provide monetary support. Yet, in the event that they are not willing to cooperate to that extent (or that they are only willing to donate zp), we should discuss alternative ways to achieve these same ends.
As a side note, I would appreciate z8games staff feedback / discussion in this thread as well, since z8games can potentially be a very close ally to the competitive scene. -
hmm wonder why z8 wont create any tourneys with actual prize like zp perhaps ? I mean $100 dollars prize for the winner is not a big deal to z8 rite ?
I would assume not, and their staff do seem willing to work with us. Has anyone recently spoken with z8games staff in regards to that?
However, it is important to point out that z8games does not wish to increase the size of their staff. This means that they will only be able to do things within the time constraints of their pre-existing staff, which means that events will have to be player-ran rather than left completely up to z8games. -
The cycle exists in every game. FPS isn't like LoL or SC2 where the meta game is constantly changing, or in the case of LoL new champions are added bi-weekly or whatever.
Once you know how to play CF...like REALLY play CF, you can pretty much quit and go back to playing CS or whatever. The skill ceiling in CF is low, the competitive playerbase is small. WCG is announced and a flurry of people will come back, put a team together two weeks before the tournament, and still be able to do fairly well.
I was just clarifying that this isn't the only version of CF has the cycle. As for the cycle, the specific cycle we are talking about it is the the one that is in CF right now, obviously i wasn't clear what i meant by "its in other games to" but i didnt think i would need to be as i thought it would be obvious that it would be different in other games but the cycle would still exist in some form or another.
but never the less you are right it is in every game, it is just different depending on the genre of game and the level of skill involved. -
Holding events such as tournaments and LAN's are not easy in the least.
I for one found this out the hard way. This is my first ever event to organize and it took me 1 month to find a decent Venue.
You need a solid sponsor and support from outside the CF community to get money and prizes for the tournaments.
I have been trying my best to make the FG LAN as successful as it can be. These type of things dont happen overnight. Not only need commitment from sponsors but also from the players themselves. People say "oh yes, I will do this" but they quit due to not being committed or teams breaking up.
The majority of CF players are still in school and dont have much time to practice neither the less find time to go to LAN's, WCG, etc. Money is another issue too. -
Holding events such as tournaments and LAN's are not easy in the least.
I for one found this out the hard way. This is my first ever event to organize and it took me 1 month to find a decent Venue.
You need a solid sponsor and support from outside the CF community to get money and prizes for the tournaments.
I have been trying my best to make the FG LAN as successful as it can be. These type of things dont happen overnight. Not only need commitment from sponsors but also from the players themselves. People say "oh yes, I will do this" but they quit due to not being committed or teams breaking up.
The majority of CF players are still in school and dont have much time to practice neither the less find time to go to LAN's, WCG, etc. Money is another issue too.
I agree. How have you found sponsorship interest in the FG LAN, then, and how can you apply what you've learned in your LAN experience to the other tournaments and leagues of CrossFire?
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