Volunteer security force in CF to oust cheats?
I posted this elsewhere and someone suggested i posted it here....so I will :-)
It seems that most players hate the cheats in CF (they're not hackers though, just cheats), it would also be impossible to place a moderator in every game. What about Z8 recruiting a volunteer security team amongst the regular players with the power to kick and ban instantly - they'd need to be accountable and report back every action. They'd need to be able to tell the difference between a good player, a lucky shot or two, a bit of lag and the blatant cheats. They could be anonymous too, known only to Z8 then cheats wouldn't know who they were and therefore more difficult for them to avoid bans.
Has this been suggested before? Is it not possible? just a thought...
It seems that most players hate the cheats in CF (they're not hackers though, just cheats), it would also be impossible to place a moderator in every game. What about Z8 recruiting a volunteer security team amongst the regular players with the power to kick and ban instantly - they'd need to be accountable and report back every action. They'd need to be able to tell the difference between a good player, a lucky shot or two, a bit of lag and the blatant cheats. They could be anonymous too, known only to Z8 then cheats wouldn't know who they were and therefore more difficult for them to avoid bans.
Has this been suggested before? Is it not possible? just a thought...
Comments
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ThR1LLk1LL wrote: »I posted this elsewhere and someone suggested i posted it here....so I will :-)
It seems that most players hate the cheats in CF (they're not hackers though, just cheats), it would also be impossible to place a moderator in every game. What about Z8 recruiting a volunteer security team amongst the regular players with the power to kick and ban instantly - they'd need to be accountable and report back every action. They'd need to be able to tell the difference between a good player, a lucky shot or two, a bit of lag and the blatant cheats. They could be anonymous too, known only to Z8 then cheats wouldn't know who they were and therefore more difficult for them to avoid bans.
Has this been suggested before? Is it not possible? just a thought...
Yes it has.
Mod's dont have powers in game. So why would a "volunteer" have powers?
Its a liability issue. If someone gets banned but there is no proof of hacking, then the person who banned them would get into trouble. More like a he said this and that scenario.
If anyone would have those powers, it will be only the MODS and GMs -
Funny how I thought about the same a few seconds ago.
Basically you would make it up like this:
The GMs choose their representatives among some forumers for example and give them limited rights ingame. Maybe a 3 day ban or something like that. If he bans someone he needs to give a short explanation like "aimbot", "cursing" etc.
If the banned one thinks that he is banned without reason he could use the support section to open a ticket. The representative would now have to explain his decision in a more accurate way and the GM would decide.
If someone got a lot of wrong decisions then he looses his powers. Every GM would be handling around 5 - 10 volunteers.
However, we all know how G4Box works. The money will flow with and without hackers. -
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Read the stickied thread for God's sake. >.> This has been suggested hundreds of times before and it was decided to be a no due to false bans and having corrupt moderators since anything user-controlled will be abused much like the kick vote system.
It was a suggestion "for God's sake"! Your dismissal is flawed because the experiment has never been tried. You can have all the rules and laws you want but with no one to enforce hem they are useless. better not have any police forces in case there are false arrests and corrupt cops eh? Do away with them all an society would be safer eh?
What's to stop the current moderators and GMs being corrupt? Yes any such plan would need some thinking out and tweaking but I don't see your better idea anywhere. I'm not suggesting a bunch of 14 year olds policing the system, there would have to be proper checking and accountability of any such volunteers and a right of appeal for banned players. When someone's standing in front of a wall shooting, with a k/d of 65/2 they're not going to appeal against a ban really are they? -
ThR1LLk1LL wrote: »It was a suggestion "for God's sake"! Your dismissal is flawed because the experiment has never been tried. You can have all the rules and laws you want but with no one to enforce hem they are useless. better not have any police forces in case there are false arrests and corrupt cops eh? Do away with them all an society would be safer eh?
What's to stop the current moderators and GMs being corrupt? Yes any such plan would need some thinking out and tweaking but I don't see your better idea anywhere. I'm not suggesting a bunch of 14 year olds policing the system, there would have to be proper checking and accountability of any such volunteers and a right of appeal for banned players. When someone's standing in front of a wall shooting, with a k/d of 65/2 they're not going to appeal against a ban really are they?
What stops moderators a gm's from going on ban sprees or abusing power?
Easy... Moderators cant ban at all anyway and GM's are paid employees of G4Box... doing that would lose them a job. -
Volunteers are meant to do work not to create it. Most reports don't even get looked into so don't waste your time here.
I cant be bothered with you tonight. Dont start because its not clever, funny or true. Its your own speculation.. you have 0 proof of anything you ever say. -
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Saidin himself once said that reported players that get punished by the autoban system don't get handled by the staff. I've never reported a player and saw him permabanned. Out of a few pages of reports this is a sign that what I said is true.
You are correct... because they are already banned.... its to speed the system up. -
ThR1LLk1LL wrote: »Oh man, you completely miss the point of my post. You'd think that with nearly 11,000 posts you'd spout something sensible and constructive.
What else is he supposed to say? If G4 wanted this they'd have done it a long time ago. They already stated that they plan to give the mods some form of ingame power. It's a good idea, but not gonna happen in our version. -
Player/Volunteer/Non-Z8GAMES Employee GMs.
-Are not being considered. There's been several frank discussions on this matter on the forums and within our staff. If you want to read them, please use the search.
To give some insight on the a small window of the issue, we can look at legalities: NDAs (Non-Disclosure Agreements) are very tricky documentation to enforce if broken when not backed up by monetary compensation; a court in the US ruled a number of years ago in a case against EA that both tangible assets such as game subscriptions/box copies as well as intangibles such as game items and/or points do not constitute a wage or salary.
Okay, put more GMs in-game!
-There ARE GMs in-game more or less 24/7. We do observe games under pseudonyms and problem players identified by GMs are addressed. Even were we to have player GMs, we could not cover every room all the time. There are GMs working at Z8GAMES that have never posted on the forums, who work solely in-game or otherwise behind the scenes.
Why are the GMs not visible?
-It would be hard to catch people breaking the rules if they knew we were GMs. That being said, going forward our MODs will carry a moderator tag; though they will have no in-game powers, they will be visible participants in the game. -
Player/Volunteer/Non-Z8GAMES Employee GMs.
-Are not being considered. There's been several frank discussions on this matter on the forums and within our staff. If you want to read them, please use the search.
To give some insight on the a small window of the issue, we can look at legalities: NDAs (Non-Disclosure Agreements) are very tricky documentation to enforce if broken when not backed up by monetary compensation; a court in the US ruled a number of years ago in a case against EA that both tangible assets such as game subscriptions/box copies as well as intangibles such as game items and/or points do not constitute a wage or salary.
Okay, put more GMs in-game!
-There ARE GMs in-game more or less 24/7. We do observe games under pseudonyms and problem players identified by GMs are addressed. Even were we to have player GMs, we could not cover every room all the time. There are GMs working at Z8GAMES that have never posted on the forums, who work solely in-game or otherwise behind the scenes.
Why are the GMs not visible?
-It would be hard to catch people breaking the rules if they knew we were GMs. That being said, going forward our MODs will carry a moderator tag; though they will have no in-game powers, they will be visible participants in the game.
This.
Best answer given.
/close -
Just because Z8 say it isn't a good idea doesn't mean it isn't they are usually wrong about almost everything.
Regardless if they are wrong or right, suggesting it is useless since Z8Games/G4Box already went over this and said it won't get implemented providing reasons. OP is just wasting his time. -
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Regardless if they are wrong or right, suggesting it is useless since Z8Games/G4Box already went over this and said it won't get implemented providing reasons. OP is just wasting his time.
Well actually he's not wasting his time. To get stupid decisions overturned or reconsided doesn't involve parroting the company line or remaining silent.
If Z8 were so good at making wise choices then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place and the game wouldn't be in the state it is in and has always been in. -
Z8games is not going to go out of its way to allow excessive amounts of In-Game Moderators with the ability to ban hackers when it's the people who play CFs responsibility to vote kick them out of their games, record footage or them using VIP's and reporting it in an orderly, this will lead to power abuse, just as in other games where people can become Moderators or part of staff just because they know about the game more than the average player would, or should, ex: Graal(every version) they allow people to become Mod's who play the game and some of these Mod's when the Head Admin isn't looking tend to abuse powers, such as banning the wrong players, jailing players without reason, giving themselves guns and other items, stealing players items using their trust factor of being a mod. This all boils down to the fact that you can't just trust people to use their good judgement, and make good decisions. Doing this will bring in bad mod's, it's best to leave things as-is.
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ThR1LLk1LL wrote: »It was a suggestion "for God's sake"! Your dismissal is flawed because the experiment has never been tried. You can have all the rules and laws you want but with no one to enforce hem they are useless. better not have any police forces in case there are false arrests and corrupt cops eh? Do away with them all an society would be safer eh?
What's to stop the current moderators and GMs being corrupt? Yes any such plan would need some thinking out and tweaking but I don't see your better idea anywhere. I'm not suggesting a bunch of 14 year olds policing the system, there would have to be proper checking and accountability of any such volunteers and a right of appeal for banned players. When someone's standing in front of a wall shooting, with a k/d of 65/2 they're not going to appeal against a ban really are they?- "Experiment hasn't been tried"
Fact: Mods do not have ingame powers. Not to say that we do continuously use our close communication with the GMs to update them the state of the game both from the forum and ingame perspective. - "What's to stop the current moderators and GMs being corrupt?"
Giggletron wrote: »Easy... Moderators cant ban at all anyway and GM's are paid employees of G4Box... doing that would lose them a job.
AND
That 2nd part is taken from #6 of this post:Player/Volunteer/Non-Z8GAMES Employee GMs.
-Are not being considered. There's been several frank discussions on this matter on the forums and within our staff. If you want to read them, please use the search.
To give some insight on the a small window of the issue, we can look at legalities: NDAs (Non-Disclosure Agreements) are very tricky documentation to enforce if broken when not backed up by monetary compensation; a court in the US ruled a number of years ago in a case against EA that both tangible assets such as game subscriptions/box copies as well as intangibles such as game items and/or points do not constitute a wage or salary.
Okay, put more GMs in-game!
-There ARE GMs in-game more or less 24/7. We do observe games under pseudonyms and problem players identified by GMs are addressed. Even were we to have player GMs, we could not cover every room all the time. There are GMs working at Z8GAMES that have never posted on the forums, who work solely in-game or otherwise behind the scenes.
Why are the GMs not visible?
-It would be hard to catch people breaking the rules if they knew we were GMs. That being said, going forward our MODs will carry a moderator tag; though they will have no in-game powers, they will be visible participants in the game.
http://forum.z8games.com/showpost.php?p=46&postcount=2 - "proper checking and accountability of any such volunteers and a right of appeal for banned players"
http://support.z8games.com/webform_new.aspx
^That's where the accountability and appeal happens^, with paid employees.
There is an auto-detection system in place that I can place 100% confidence in in getting the job done. It is hard to fathom that, but rest assured as new hacks are discovered each day they get entered into that detection system to be sniffing out players using such hacks and then banning them with its own banning system.
Anything left over is caught via reporting from the rest of the community who "volunteer" their hacking report which is properly filled out.
And trust me, there's a lot of reports that are handled each day as well as the auto-detection system catching a lot more hackers.
You can learn more about what we do to fight hackers here:
[thread=195843]CF Anti Hacking Measures - Z8Games Hates hackers too![/thread]
Your idea, though valid, is unfortunate to not be considered due to "trust". How is a paid person going to "trust" someone that isn't paid to do a similar that the paid person does?
As a moderator and a player, I know your frustration to see hackers and hackers and hackers and hackers. There is no easy way to explain it, hence why I linked the thread above for you to read more about it.
What I can say is that to please keep your chin up. There things behind the curtain that are always being looked at every day to measure if they will be useful to not just banning hackers but to also prevent them from coming back, especially on alternate accounts.
That's really all I can say at the moment until the official announcement is cleared to be said.
Gonna close up this suggestion. Also, this has been suggested many times in the past as well.
- "Experiment hasn't been tried"
![Vigo]](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/85/navatar_9990885.gif){kind=avatar}
This discussion has been closed.
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