Z8 Games Clan SnD Tournament
At the risk of posting information too early we want to let you guys know that we haven't forgotten about the SnD tournament we promised over the summer.
Instead it's going to happen around the Halloween/Fall period.
In the interest of competition, we wanted to get your input on the rule set for the past Ghost Mode tournament, plus give you some information on some upcoming changes to the clan match point ladder which we will also be implemented.
First some of the changes:
We will be further limiting the # of games clans can play vs another clan. This will likely go down to 3 games a day from the current 5+ it is now.
We are also going to invalidate "give zero points" for all matches that take place in which one team does not score a kill. We feel that even though blowouts are likely to happen, the chances of playing an entire 2 halves of a match even in an 9-0 scenario and not having both sides have at least one kill is just.. not possible. And by doing this we will be eliminating all farming that goes on associated with it.
Yes, that means you can get a kill and still farm, but the limitations are such that we're making it more annoying for the general person to farm points.
Secondly we are looking at creating another page. We realize this is a bit tedious with all these pages, and eventually things will be streamlined. But this page will be for the sole purpose of looking at a specific time frame.
These sub-seasons will also have no decay and will have a maximum point per day which you can achieve. (this is to prevent someone from out-farming everyone on the first day)
Thirdly, by doing the above we want to put more focus on the Clan Leader itself, we want the leader to represent the clan during these tournaments from everything with communication, to emailing them for invites for future events. So in that light we want to feature the Leader during these tournaments.
Lastly in this list we want to mention some of the things that went right and wrong about the Ghost Mode tournament.
Things that went right:
Things that we can improve on:
We want to know what you think we can do to improve on what we held for the Ghost Mode tournament. Note that we must be able to run the tournament in some sort of semi-automatic sense. We are not going to be able to dedicate 15 people to this tournament to handle every cry baby that we see.
Hacking is definitely something we want to stop, we will be setting up a dedicated report system (we already have it) in the support section where we can review clans. However if a PLAYER is caught hacking in matches it won't just DQ the entire clan, we'll remove points as necessary and then remove that player from the game and clan. If an entire clan is hacking then we'll remove them. But note that with a limit of 2 or 3 games versus clans per day that it is actually difficult to manipulate the entire ladder for this so we won't need to just reset a whole bunch of scores etc. because that one clan or person won't have a huge impact on the whole.
Anyways, like I said, before we implement any and all of this and start this tournament up we want to hear what you guys have to say, we want to get you all excited for this tournament and start building up some general competitive and clan oriented play. So lets see what you have to say and we'll go from there!
Instead it's going to happen around the Halloween/Fall period.
In the interest of competition, we wanted to get your input on the rule set for the past Ghost Mode tournament, plus give you some information on some upcoming changes to the clan match point ladder which we will also be implemented.
First some of the changes:
We will be further limiting the # of games clans can play vs another clan. This will likely go down to 3 games a day from the current 5+ it is now.
We are also going to invalidate "give zero points" for all matches that take place in which one team does not score a kill. We feel that even though blowouts are likely to happen, the chances of playing an entire 2 halves of a match even in an 9-0 scenario and not having both sides have at least one kill is just.. not possible. And by doing this we will be eliminating all farming that goes on associated with it.
Yes, that means you can get a kill and still farm, but the limitations are such that we're making it more annoying for the general person to farm points.
Secondly we are looking at creating another page. We realize this is a bit tedious with all these pages, and eventually things will be streamlined. But this page will be for the sole purpose of looking at a specific time frame.
Example: We run a tournament, using the rules on the clan page which validate matches for match points. But instead of having it keep a running permanent total, it's only kept from October 1st - October 31st.
This then gives us a short time frame in which to see a selection of clans which can then be used for a tournament playoff.These sub-seasons will also have no decay and will have a maximum point per day which you can achieve. (this is to prevent someone from out-farming everyone on the first day)
Thirdly, by doing the above we want to put more focus on the Clan Leader itself, we want the leader to represent the clan during these tournaments from everything with communication, to emailing them for invites for future events. So in that light we want to feature the Leader during these tournaments.
Lastly in this list we want to mention some of the things that went right and wrong about the Ghost Mode tournament.
Things that went right:
- It was able to use every clan
- It was new and exciting and was able to put focus on clans during the tournament.
- The broadcast for the finals went well.
Things that we can improve on:
- Better observation for hacking.
- Better organization of the rules to make sure that everyone knows what is going on.
- Showing the ranks of clans and where they stand in semi-real time (2 hour clan page delay)
- Better organization of what will happen once the round robin (season) is over. IE a better playoffs.
We want to know what you think we can do to improve on what we held for the Ghost Mode tournament. Note that we must be able to run the tournament in some sort of semi-automatic sense. We are not going to be able to dedicate 15 people to this tournament to handle every cry baby that we see.
Hacking is definitely something we want to stop, we will be setting up a dedicated report system (we already have it) in the support section where we can review clans. However if a PLAYER is caught hacking in matches it won't just DQ the entire clan, we'll remove points as necessary and then remove that player from the game and clan. If an entire clan is hacking then we'll remove them. But note that with a limit of 2 or 3 games versus clans per day that it is actually difficult to manipulate the entire ladder for this so we won't need to just reset a whole bunch of scores etc. because that one clan or person won't have a huge impact on the whole.
Anyways, like I said, before we implement any and all of this and start this tournament up we want to hear what you guys have to say, we want to get you all excited for this tournament and start building up some general competitive and clan oriented play. So lets see what you have to say and we'll go from there!
Comments
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i don't think there's a whole lot more you can do with a clan server style tournament. it's a nice idea and fun in theory.
if your new dedicated hack report system works well, the only big adjustment would be having the top 16 battle it out in a bracket seeded style play-off.
i recommend this because:
1) it won't end up with 2 medium tier squads again. not that it was a bad thing, but the winner should be the most deserving players.
2) having room to be able to lose a game or three may make good teams want to play each other this time. perhaps take a gamble at knocking down another team and still be able to place top 16 after losing a couple.
3) clans may stick together after losing a couple times. clans were deserted and others reborn/created. it would be nice to have actual real clans fight for the prize and not temporary ones.
4) clans won't give up after 3 days like last time
but i hope you have a large team for these reports because there will be a massive amount of clans participating in an SnD clan server event. especially for a rare prize. i bet it will be nearly impossible to try to get in the clan servers most of the day. -
First off, you're not going to BS like you guys did in MOTGII. It's still on my mind. I would've gotten the golden katana if you guys removed that ONE abvious hacking match in the last min....and the guy didn't even get banned for blatantly chamming his butt off in GM. How much of a failure are you guys on THAT part. -.-
Number one priority: Monitor hacking matches and remove ones that are necessary to comply "fairness" among teams.
Second: No more babying a team because they were whining about their losses to have a perfect record. Cough* Cough*.......
Third: You can have a clan server ladder season, although it's still not a very good idea, have a BRACKET qualifications once the Round Robbin is over. Have it monitored and spectated by admins EVERY time a match occurs for the bracket period. This ensures no one is using cheats, and better yet, if you play out of the clan server for the qualifications round, you will insure legitimacy among teams for obvious reasons, and this gives a LOT of flexibility for teams if people Client Error or Disconnect, as they can sub in players anytime.
That is about it. If MOTGII was really a "learning" process for you guys, I don't think I need to say much.
Hopefully, Z8, or Saidin, or whoever is in charge of making these silly tournaments, that this one is less BS. -
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i don't think there's a whole lot more you can do with a clan server style tournament. it's a nice idea and fun in theory.
if your new dedicated hack report system works well, the only big adjustment would be having the top 16 battle it out in a bracket seeded style play-off.
i recommend this because:
1) it won't end up with 2 medium tier squads again. not that it was a bad thing, but the winner should be the most deserving players.
2) having room to be able to lose a game or three may make good teams want to play each other this time. perhaps take a gamble at knocking down another team and still be able to place top 16 after losing a couple.
3) clans may stick together after losing a couple times. clans were deserted and others reborn/created. it would be nice to have actual real clans fight for the prize and not temporary ones.
4) clans won't give up after 3 days like last time
but i hope you have a large team for these reports because there will be a massive amount of clans participating in an SnD clan server event. especially for a rare prize. i bet it will be nearly impossible to try to get in the clan servers most of the day.
Thanks for the posts.
A few things. I think one of the problems with the MOTGII was that the actual finals weren't really defined as much as they should. I think this was a failure on our part as we just sort of expected teams to go at it for a while then find the top teams and have them play it out.
I think with this tournament we would definitely have the results of "the season" seed a top group of teams that would be larger than MOTGII. Top 16, top 20, top 24 or something like that would be necessary in order to encourage competition at the end of the season.
As you said it also increases how much you're invested in the tournament and you may want to go into a match with a bit more risk.
For teams that are looking to selectively go 100-0 or whatever the case may be, the cat is out of the bag on this one, everyone is going to look to be doing this and as soon as you take a loss it might affect your seeding so much that you have to try and win another 100 without a loss just to get your seed back.
Being able to monitor the clans unfortunately is something we can't really do. There is not enough manpower (or return) for us to do some sort of signup thing like we've done in the very early stages of the game. If we opened signups for teams, it would take approximately 1.5 seconds for 64 teams to sign up and we'd be dealing with too much drama and it eats up a whole lotta time.
We want to involve as many clans as possible, even though we know there are only a few clans which will go on to be the best. The point here is that we are dealing with a large game population and want to try and find a stepping stone for people to participate in such that they may then want to go on to WCG, or CSN, or wherever else. If we can come away with 2 or 3 new clans who have formed to participate and then stick together because of it. Then that's awesome!
It can be driven home even more if we intend on doing things like these more and more often. Say with seasons.
We would make clear policy for handling hackers. Example, if one person was hacking in a match, we would be banning that person and then removing the "points" that clan won for that match. And with only 2-3 matches per a specific clan that can count anyways due to the anti farming, the variety the ladder will create should be more more varied so that one clan can't manipulate the whole field of people.
Secondly, for the playoffs, we would make sure people are running an anti cheat. At least for the finals. Last time we didn't fully put that in the rules but we will be making sure this stuff is done from the very beginning.
Anyways, keep the feedback coming. We're looking to have our rule set finalized next week so we can announce this tournament and start recording matches for October. The finals would take place around Halloween or first week of Nov. -
what do you want
ok nvm then.
@saidin
You should max the clans at 100. First come first serve, english only. Winning CWs is bs enough, as some of the best players don't even play clan server, nor do the dominating clans have that many members where they get a 100 cws done in a day. I like the idea, but honestly it's just not gonna work out.
Letting 100 clans sign up would make it much easier to;
a) handle the tourney in general.
b) handle hackusations easier. Though honestly this part is really messed up. People will cheat, and they will hide it. Cheaters will end up beating legit players. And also, some legit players will more than likely be thought to be cheating, and points will be taken away unfairly. Oh well.
c) it would pretty much take farming completely OUT of the picture. Mostly BRs farm, and yeah, more opportunity for players who are good, but actually have LIVES, to have a shot at making it to the bracket.
Few more tiny things, but yeah. Bout sums up the main points.
Also, make sure the clan has been together for a month or more. Would make the chances of teams dying and making the brackets not fun, well slim to none.
And finally, casting both matches when there are 4 teams left, and the finals match/3rd place match, while advertising them on forums/main page, would be pretty cool.
Just some ideas, hope you decide to read and take it into consideration, it would help the snd tourney out greatly. -
sukodaBEST wrote: »ok nvm then.
@saidin
You should max the clans at 100. First come first serve, english only. Winning CWs is bs enough, as some of the best players don't even play clan server, nor do the dominating clans have that many members where they get a 100 cws done in a day. I like the idea, but honestly it's just not gonna work out.
Letting 100 clans sign up would make it much easier to;
a) handle the tourney in general.
b) handle hackusations easier. Though honestly this part is really messed up. People will cheat, and they will hide it. Cheaters will end up beating legit players. And also, some legit players will more than likely be thought to be cheating, and points will be taken away unfairly. Oh well.
c) it would pretty much take farming completely OUT of the picture. Mostly BRs farm, and yeah, more opportunity for players who are good, but actually have LIVES, to have a shot at making it to the bracket.
Few more tiny things, but yeah. Bout sums up the main points.
Also, make sure the clan has been together for a month or more. Would make the chances of teams dying and making the brackets not fun, well slim to none.
And finally, casting both matches when there are 4 teams left, and the finals match/3rd place match, while advertising them on forums/main page, would be pretty cool.
Just some ideas, hope you decide to read and take it into consideration, it would help the snd tourney out greatly.
shotxrider . -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »Top 16, top 20, top 24 or something like
for the playoffs, we would make sure people are running an anti cheat. At least for the finals.
oh well if you guys can handle it, go for top 32 (or 64 if you're crazy) to make it even. the more seeds the better because with more seeds = more room for team errors (losses). which i think better enforces the points i made earlier. or course, this would be a direct trade off with more work/problem solving needing to be done.
nice for anti-cheatsukodaBEST wrote: »
You should max the clans at 100. First come first serve, english only. Winning CWs is bs enough, as some of the best players don't even play clan server, nor do the dominating clans have that many members where they get a 100 cws done in a day. I like the idea, but honestly it's just not gonna work out.
it goes by win percentage. you wouldn't need 100 cws in the month. the min requirement would probably be 60 or 90. the smaller teams would have the advantage. (2 or 3 matches a day)
take a month off and play clan server, you will see it's pretty fun and intense. the only downfall for echo players would be you may have to be ZP (most noteably armour) to make sure things go smooth. but 30 day armour isn't too bad, especially for a rare prize and good fun.
this would be a 1 time thing so far for SnD. leagues for a low amount of teams come and go a couple times a year. -
sukodaBEST wrote: »ok nvm then.
@saidin
You should max the clans at 100. First come first serve, english only. Winning CWs is bs enough, as some of the best players don't even play clan server, nor do the dominating clans have that many members where they get a 100 cws done in a day. I like the idea, but honestly it's just not gonna work out.
Letting 100 clans sign up would make it much easier too.
For this I agree with your points. But to it I have to say lets hold up a bit. Basically we need to involve lots of clans for this, we want to lower the barrier to entry into competitive play. Allowing everyone to play achieves this goal in a blanket level.
But moving forward we might have a system that limits the clans who can participate in the tournament. Say by having some sort of qualifier to play in the season.
Making things tiered allows for everyone to play but not everyone to play together. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. One thing at a time and one improvement at a time. The ideas are valid though. -
[GM]Saidin wrote: »For this I agree with your points. But to it I have to say lets hold up a bit. Basically we need to involve lots of clans for this, we want to lower the barrier to entry into competitive play. Allowing everyone to play achieves this goal in a blanket level.
But moving forward we might have a system that limits the clans who can participate in the tournament. Say by having some sort of qualifier to play in the season.
Making things tiered allows for everyone to play but not everyone to play together. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. One thing at a time and one improvement at a time. The ideas are valid though.
Yes I know we need to involve a lot. But when you think into it, those clan will have motivation for the next tournament you know? To get better for the next one, and you possibly expand it then. But I fully believe you should start it off this way, as a sort of test run, considering GM and SND are two different things. I would rather have the system limiting to start if off, like honestly, make sure everyone knows what they are doing for the future when more clans come into play.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post though
.
@Judge I pretty much quit e8, and only play clan server now. I have armor for 60+ days. I'm a total pubstarr I like it more than e8, except for the fact when you d/c you can't join back. For that I'd like to ask Saidin to possibly suggest to the devs allowing a player to join back in a clan match if he/she dced 
. -
sukodaBEST wrote: »Yes I know we need to involve a lot. But when you think into it, those clan will have motivation for the next tournament you know? To get better for the next one, and you possibly expand it then. But I fully believe you should start it off this way, as a sort of test run, considering GM and SND are two different things. I would rather have the system limiting to start if off, like honestly, make sure everyone knows what they are doing for the future when more clans come into play.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post though.
@Judge I pretty much quit e8, and only play clan server now. I have armor for 60+ days. I'm a total pubstarr I like it more than e8, except for the fact when you d/c you can't join back. For that I'd like to ask Saidin to possibly suggest to the devs allowing a player to join back in a clan match if he/she dced .
if you get dc'd during the first half, just log out of crossfire, and log back in. go into clan lobby and wait for halftime. works flawlessly everytime
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