Hacking Deterrence
I posted the below in reply to another thread however since the summer games announcement I think this is really possible to implement.
Yes it is a ribbon suggestion but it's not merely a ribbon suggestion but more of a hacking deterrence measure so it rightfully deserves its own thread here in suggestions rather than the ribbon suggestions thread.
The idea:
Z8 should implement another ribbon for the online profile called "Fair Play", you either have it or not depending on whether you have ever been banned for hacking.
And yes Z8 can differentiate between Hack bans and other supposedly lesser bans:
What would this do? It would encourage players to play fair since they can't hide behind "Oh it was a Chargeback" and it would make hacking rates drop because nobody would want to get caught.
Give amnesty to everyone prior to implementing it, if there is so much opposition to it, so those with no "Honorable soldier" ribbon can still maintain their bs stories of "chargebacks", because they'll have the "Fair play" ribbon due to the amensty but not the "Honorable Soldier".
Thoughts?
Yes it is a ribbon suggestion but it's not merely a ribbon suggestion but more of a hacking deterrence measure so it rightfully deserves its own thread here in suggestions rather than the ribbon suggestions thread.
The idea:
Z8 should implement another ribbon for the online profile called "Fair Play", you either have it or not depending on whether you have ever been banned for hacking.
And yes Z8 can differentiate between Hack bans and other supposedly lesser bans:
Bans for chargebacks and non hacking related suspensions will still allow you to win the prize - From the above link^
What would this do? It would encourage players to play fair since they can't hide behind "Oh it was a Chargeback" and it would make hacking rates drop because nobody would want to get caught.
Give amnesty to everyone prior to implementing it, if there is so much opposition to it, so those with no "Honorable soldier" ribbon can still maintain their bs stories of "chargebacks", because they'll have the "Fair play" ribbon due to the amensty but not the "Honorable Soldier".
Thoughts?
Comments
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I agree 100%. You would have a sure-fire way to know if a player is legitimate (especially for a clan war), of you just check up on the opposite team and on their profiles to see if they have both ribbons. Another idea would be to either place that ribbon in or one specifically related to chargebacks.
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+1.
But if it should be shown in game (as it was ment to be in the other thread) then Z8 should distinguish between people that have hacked recently and people that have been hacking a long time ago and stayed clean after that. Like give the second group of people half a ribbon for the in game profile. Because otherwise people would kick them right away though they were playing legitly for a long time. -
it sure would help to fine a good clan to play clan wars and not to end up with hackers.
but i dont think it would drop the hacking number. because people hack and those that hack just wanna have fun on a smilly account and dont care about ribbons,ranks,....
a hacker dont hack with hes main but a alt so why would they care? -
that's obviously the majority that hacks on an alt. But those living in an IP-restricted area will have to use they're main as they can't simply create a new account. This might be the minority but it's at least a few hackers less..L_OVER_BO_Y wrote: »it sure would help to fine a good clan to play clan wars and not to end up with hackers.
but i dont think it would drop the hacking number. because people hack and those that hack just wanna have fun on a smilly account and dont care about ribbons,ranks,....
a hacker dont hack with hes main but a alt so why would they care? -
but then report them and ban them? then they are gone aswell..... so thats not really a good reason to get this system.that's obviously the majority that hacks on an alt. But those living in an IP-restricted area will have to use they're main as they can't simply create a new account. This might be the minority but it's at least a few hackers less.. -
To clear a few things up:
If a player gets caught hacking, we do not only lock the account they were hacking on, but any alternative account linked to his IP address. So the urban myth that hackers will use alts to get away with hacking is false.
Furthermore, having such a ribbon is kind of pointless, for A) we already have the "Honorable Soldier" ribbon, and
no one is going to check the clan page to see if a person has lost this ribbon while playing.
Since players that lost their "Honorable Soldier" ribbon are still playing, it is save to say they indeed lost it for another reason rather than hacking. And even if they lost it for hacking, if they got their account back, it is because the GMs are convinced they deserve a second chance.
In no way do we want to create a community that judges their fellow players on their past transgressions, for it is not the community's job to do so. We have Moderators and GMs to concern themselves with a player's history. It is the community's job to only concern themselves with present transgressions, and report hackers they come across while playing.
In no way is it going to help anyone to give players a stigma, such as the loss of a silly ribbon. -
[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »If a player gets caught hacking, we do not only lock the account they were hacking on, but any alternative account linked to his IP address. So the urban myth that hackers will use alts to get away with hacking is false.
That is irrelevant.[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »Furthermore, having such a ribbon is kind of pointless, for A) we already have the "Honorable Soldier" ribbon, and no one is going to check the clan page to see if a person has lost this ribbon while playing.
1) Honourable Soldier is a poor standard to judge by nor does it cause a deterrence to hacking since you could hack multiple times and get caught and just say "charge back".
2) It's not really about checking whether a player is legit it is in fact about deterrence, that being people will stay legit since they don't want a mark on their profile incase people do check i.e friends, clannies, clan leaders.[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »Since players that lost their "Honorable Soldier" ribbon are still playing, it is safe to say they indeed lost it for another reason rather than hacking. And even if they lost it for hacking, if they got their account back, it is because the GMs are convinced they deserve a second chance.
No it's not because GM Saiden decided "this guy seems ok, i'll give him a chance", it's designed to be that way any player can get multiple temp bans.[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »In no way do we want to create a community that judges their fellow players on their past transgressions, for it is not the community's job to do so. We have Moderators and GMs to concern themselves with a player's history. It is the community's job to only concern themselves with present transgressions, and report hackers they come across while playing.
Yes indeed it would be Z8 that implements this not players.[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »In no way is it going to help anyone to give players a sigma, such as the loss of a silly ribbon.
I think you mean "stigma" and that is precisely people don't care about hacking themselves or not, because;
1) Z8 is weak they give multiple chances when hacks are detected via the auto ban.
2) They merely lock accounts even if you reached the max amount of temp bans or even if you are perma banned.
Overall Z8 and it's ban policy is no deterrence to hackers whatsoever, whereas their "image" to others is. -
You are missing the point, Chimpzz. You are not in any way in a positions to judge anyone. We do not want players to go on a witch hunt, judging fellow players on what they have done in the past. It's not your job, nor do you have the right to do so. Hackers do not get temp bans for hacking, unless it's Xtrap that issues the ban. If the GMs ban people for hacking, it is permanent. And if by chance the GMs decide for what ever reason they see fit to give a player a second chance, then again you are not allowed to overrule their judgment and say "Well, he's missing this or that, so I'll kick him anyway".
A silly little ribbon is not going to stop hackers from hacking if they are set out to do so. -
[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »You are missing the point, Chimpzz. You are not in any way in a positions to judge anyone. We do not want players to go on a witch hunt, judging fellow players on what they have done in the past. It's not your job, nor do you have the right to do so.
As already explained it's z8 that issues the judgement, not players. Do you get the point yet? Do you think we have access to remove ribbons?:rolleyes:[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »Hackers do not get temp bans for hacking, unless it's Xtrap that issues the ban. If the GMs ban people for hacking, it is permanent.
Of which 99.99% are temp, so your point is?[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »And if by chance the GMs decide for what ever reason they see fit to give a player a second chance, then again you are not allowed to overrule their judgment and say "Well, he's missing this or that, so I'll kick him anyway".
Actually you can kick anyone you like for any reason without punishment, that is well established fact. And you contradicated your earlier statement that being "no one is going to check the clan page to see if a person has lost this ribbon while playing." - Which makes me think you troll:)[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »A silly little ribbon is not going to stop hackers from hacking if they are set out to do so.
Who said stop?
Any more rambling like your Superior? lmao -
Im not in agreement with your amnesty idea.
And I'm still in awe in why players believe they can judge others.
The temp ban is more effective than the permanent, hence why there more faith in our auto-detection system. Look its easy enough to close an account, but continuously harrassing/trolling that account with temp bans would drive them crazy.
I understand you wish to see another layer of security through ribbons, but it in turn would be detrimental and just lead to bad returns. -
I like the idea of another ribbon. Having a sure way to know if someone has been temp banned from X-trap is useful.
But it won't act as a deterrence.
A deterrence makes people think twice before they do something. Most hackers know and expect to get banned at one point, and make new accounts all the time because they lost nothing but time in the ban.
If you want a deterrence you will need to make them lose something they value when they get caught. Sadly I can't think of anything that Z8 can do to make a deterrence other then MAC banning. -
There seems to be a curious disconnect here.
A disconnect between Z8, as represented by Gms & MoDs, and the community.
I was under the impression that many clan Lt's/Leaders refer to a players honour ribbon status prior to clan acceptance. I know my clan does this.
This has been seen as a way the community can practically support Z8's efforts to keep the game clean.
I don't think we view it as a "silly ribbon", its been viewed as a meaningful status guide to a players integrity.
Perhaps there IS some work for Z8 to do here if we have this kind of disconnect. And perhaps Z8 has mis-judged the value that the community places on this particular ribbon - and is now asking for an even more PRACTICAL ribbon that denotes fair play.
The best way for the gaming community to be in the 'present' is for it to be informed, accurately!
Awareness of 'history' is integral if you want any kind of intelligent response from the gaming community.
Not to mention the fact that I see it practically applied on West Coast servers on a daily basis. That is, players that have been clearly identified as hacking are pro-actively removed from games.
If hackers can't get games, then hacking would become pretty boring I imagine.
2cents -
I like this idea only because I want a new ribbon.
A change to the idea: The ribbon would return after 3 months of good behavior (not hacking). This would give incentive to the players who have hacked to not hack again (though most hackers just hack for the thrill of it, some do hack because they want a higher rank). It would help us see who has hacked in the recent history.
Why can I not judge others? Society judges who would have a positive impact on the world constantly. When a nation votes for it's leader, the citizens must judge who will lead the best. Judging is inevitable and a necessity. Same thing in a game, the good players should have better treatment than the cheaters. I'm not saying judging is always good. We should not judge someone to the extreme based on a little thing.
This ribbon is however point less to most hackers. I think that a very high portion of the hackers will not stop hacking no matter what. The auto ban system and the report system are definitely the most useful in banning and deterring hackers. -
It's a bit late for that , is it not ?[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »
In no way do we want to create a community that judges their fellow players on their past transgressions, for it is not the community's job to do so. We have Moderators and GMs to concern themselves with a player's history. It is the community's job to only concern themselves with present transgressions, and report hackers they come across while playing. -
Not to mention the fact that I see it practically applied on West Coast servers on a daily basis. That is, players that have been clearly identified as hacking are pro-actively removed from games.
2cents
People actually take the time to check everyone that has come into the lobby's profile just for some dumb ribbon in a game that doesn't really matter?
Seems quite absurd, unless I'm not understanding something.. -
People actually take the time to check everyone that has come into the lobby's profile just for some dumb ribbon in a game that doesn't really matter?
Seems quite absurd, unless I'm not understanding something..
thats right, you're not understanding.
Two elements.
1 clans use honour ribbon as indication of honesty
2 'history' is applied every day, being in the present and identifying and reporting hackers is only part of it, restricting game room access to those identified as hacking is also done.
afaik, no one checks ribbons in game lobbies :P -
+1.
But if it should be shown in game (as it was ment to be in the other thread) then Z8 should distinguish between people that have hacked recently and people that have been hacking a long time ago and stayed clean after that. Like give the second group of people half a ribbon for the in game profile. Because otherwise people would kick them right away though they were playing legitly for a long time.
This would encourage unfair kicking, yes, so an in game representation would be terrible.[MOD]Frecklez wrote: »To clear a few things up:
If a player gets caught hacking, we do not only lock the account they were hacking on, but any alternative account linked to his IP address. So the urban myth that hackers will use alts to get away with hacking is false.
Furthermore, having such a ribbon is kind of pointless, for A) we already have the "Honorable Soldier" ribbon, and no one is going to check the clan page to see if a person has lost this ribbon while playing.
Since players that lost their "Honorable Soldier" ribbon are still playing, it is save to say they indeed lost it for another reason rather than hacking. And even if they lost it for hacking, if they got their account back, it is because the GMs are convinced they deserve a second chance.
In no way do we want to create a community that judges their fellow players on their past transgressions, for it is not the community's job to do so. We have Moderators and GMs to concern themselves with a player's history. It is the community's job to only concern themselves with present transgressions, and report hackers they come across while playing.
In no way is it going to help anyone to give players a stigma, such as the loss of a silly ribbon.
Why don't we have Game Masters in game, playing, frequently, perm banning players they see instead of relying on reports that are probably around 65% false? Also, why don't auto bans ban alts or perm ban? Most hackers test hacks on alts, just saying.Im not in agreement with your amnesty idea.
And I'm still in awe in why players believe they can judge others.
The temp ban is more effective than the permanent, hence why there more faith in our auto-detection system. Look its easy enough to close an account, but continuously harrassing/trolling that account with temp bans would drive them crazy.
I understand you wish to see another layer of security through ribbons, but it in turn would be detrimental and just lead to bad returns.
Agreed with this.I like the idea of another ribbon. Having a sure way to know if someone has been temp banned from X-trap is useful.
But it won't act as a deterrence.
A deterrence makes people think twice before they do something. Most hackers know and expect to get banned at one point, and make new accounts all the time because they lost nothing but time in the ban.
If you want a deterrence you will need to make them lose something they value when they get caught. Sadly I can't think of anything that Z8 can do to make a deterrence other then MAC banning.
Yes, it will only give people another free ribbon.I like this idea only because I want a new ribbon.
A change to the idea: The ribbon would return after 3 months of good behavior (not hacking). This would give incentive to the players who have hacked to not hack again (though most hackers just hack for the thrill of it, some do hack because they want a higher rank). It would help us see who has hacked in the recent history.
Why can I not judge others? Society judges who would have a positive impact on the world constantly. When a nation votes for it's leader, the citizens must judge who will lead the best. Judging is inevitable and a necessity. Same thing in a game, the good players should have better treatment than the cheaters. I'm not saying judging is always good. We should not judge someone to the extreme based on a little thing.
This ribbon is however point less to most hackers. I think that a very high portion of the hackers will not stop hacking no matter what. The auto ban system and the report system are definitely the most useful in banning and deterring hackers.
Returning after 3 months would mean a hacker that has not been caught for 3 months will get it back.
My 2 cents.
If implemented in game, this will, as other people have said, cause so much more harassment to players. Which, if they hack they do deserve it, but if they have stopped they don't. To me, it just seems like another ribbon, as I personally have gotten my honorable back by sending in a support ticket, from chargeback (after paying it), so that excuse is BS anyway, just send in a support ticket asking for it, worked for me. *Also, they did steal from z8 why shouldn't we treat them the same? I do know this isn't all cases. -
smokedaily wrote: »Why don't we have Game Masters in game, playing, frequently, perm banning players they see instead of relying on reports that are probably around 65% false? Also, why don't auto bans ban alts or perm ban? Most hackers test hacks on alts, just saying.We have those as well. But there are only a hand full of them, and they look not different from the 1,000,000 other players that CF has.
And the reason why we don't have that many of them, is because there isn't enough money to pay for these people's wages. This is a free 2 play game after all, so it doesn't make a whole lot of profit.
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