clans involvement in anti-hack solution
This is a crosspost, it should've gone here to begin with>
Its a suggestion to have clan structure and reward assist in the removal of hackers
SUGGESTION:
Strike 1 - 3 days - + (clan looses 500 clan points)
Strike 2 - 1 month - + (clan looses 3000 clan points)
Strike 3 - Permanent Ban - + (clan looses all clan points)
If in a given period multiple members from a clan incur strike 2+ bans the clan is deleted from rankings and can no longer participate in clan wars or accumulate clan points.
Honour ribbon for 'clean' clans - no strike 3 players have been in clan. (Allows for reformed players).
Minimum requirement to establish a clan increased to a player Honour Ribbon (an ongoing requirement for clan leaders) coupled with minimum rank of Officer (2nd Lt).
This would force clans to change how they recruit and manage themselves and therefore add much needed player group controls/pressure to assist Z8 in hack policing.
This could go hand in hand with farming and cow clan restrictions & policing. Some simple database queries/techniques could easily identify the farmers/farming clans.
To assist Clan Lt's so clans are not blindsided by dishonest players attempting to subvert a clan's status deliberately or vengefully - prior to clan acceptance a player status warning could be displayed.
[I removed the additional suggestion that rank be increased before people can join a clan]
Its a suggestion to have clan structure and reward assist in the removal of hackers
SUGGESTION:
Strike 1 - 3 days - + (clan looses 500 clan points)
Strike 2 - 1 month - + (clan looses 3000 clan points)
Strike 3 - Permanent Ban - + (clan looses all clan points)
If in a given period multiple members from a clan incur strike 2+ bans the clan is deleted from rankings and can no longer participate in clan wars or accumulate clan points.
Honour ribbon for 'clean' clans - no strike 3 players have been in clan. (Allows for reformed players).
Minimum requirement to establish a clan increased to a player Honour Ribbon (an ongoing requirement for clan leaders) coupled with minimum rank of Officer (2nd Lt).
This would force clans to change how they recruit and manage themselves and therefore add much needed player group controls/pressure to assist Z8 in hack policing.
This could go hand in hand with farming and cow clan restrictions & policing. Some simple database queries/techniques could easily identify the farmers/farming clans.
To assist Clan Lt's so clans are not blindsided by dishonest players attempting to subvert a clan's status deliberately or vengefully - prior to clan acceptance a player status warning could be displayed.
[I removed the additional suggestion that rank be increased before people can join a clan]
Comments
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This could easily mean sabotage. Even if there is a status warning or a higher rank requirement, a player could simply play legitly until they get to join a clan, join, and then sabotage them by hacking. In a month the clan servers would be completely empty because no one could play in it.
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This could easily mean sabotage. Even if there is a status warning or a higher rank requirement, a player could simply play legitly until they get to join a clan, join, and then sabotage them by hacking. In a month the clan servers would be completely empty because no one could play in it.
This . -
This could easily mean sabotage. Even if there is a status warning or a higher rank requirement, a player could simply play legitly until they get to join a clan, join, and then sabotage them by hacking. In a month the clan servers would be completely empty because no one could play in it.
No . Because it would take more than one player to bring a clan down like that. Idea is not to make clans vulnerable but to make them accountable and part of the solution, not part of the problem. -
No . Because it would take more than one player to bring a clan down like that. Idea is not to make clans vulnerable but to make them accountable and part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Like you stated in the OP, it would take 3 strikes before a clan loses all of their clan points, and a quick succession of such would cause a ban from accumulating clan points and the ability to play clan wars. 3 rivaling clans send 3 players to hack and give them a strike, boom.
Also, there are tons of instances where clans unfortunately find a player who is hacking but didn't know before they joined. Is it really fair for clans to be punished for accepting someone they thought was legit but turned out not to be?
You stated that only players with their Honourable soldier ribbon could join a clan, but what about those who were banned wrongly or want to start over? Raising the minimum requirement to 2nd LT also doesn't solve anything, because then new players would have little incentive to continue playing. It takes at least a year to reach 2nd LT without farming, so that means a whole year of being bored to death with no one to talk to. -
Like you stated in the OP, it would take 3 strikes before a clan loses all of their clan points, and a quick succession of such would cause a ban from accumulating clan points and the ability to play clan wars. 3 rivaling clans send 3 players to hack and give them a strike, boom.
Also, there are tons of instances where clans unfortunately find a player who is hacking but didn't know before they joined. Is it really fair for clans to be punished for accepting someone they thought was legit but turned out not to be?
You stated that only players with their Honourable soldier ribbon could join a clan, but what about those who were banned wrongly or want to start over? Raising the minimum requirement to 2nd LT also doesn't solve anything, because then new players would have little incentive to continue playing. It takes at least a year to reach 2nd LT without farming, so that means a whole year of being bored to death with no one to talk to.
You have misquoted me several times
I went through 3 stages of effect on clans - from ONE player and said that if MUTIPLE strike 2+ bans were received, the clan would loose all points and no longer participate in clan wars. If clans receive a warning when a member is banned, its no problem, they delete member from clan and move on. EASY.
The Honourable Soldier and 2nd Lt rank are for clan LEADERS as I stated - not members
1- its not a big deal to expect clan leaders to have hon. soldier ribbon
2- its not long to wait for privilege of starting a clan
3- Players can join clans at rank Sarge - doesn't change
3a - I didn't say hon. soldier as a requirement for joining, but why not? We don't want hacks in clans - that's the whole point.
The real issue that would need clarifying relates to reformed 'hacks' - been banned, warned, stopped - and providing clans with fair and reasonable notification that a member has received a ban (and wot type, 1st, 2nd, 3rd) so that the clan can delete that member.
Naturally it would have to be fair on clans too, no problem there. The real point is to deal with this issue before we end up with hack clans as well as hack players - its already started, this is a suggestion to nip it before it gets out of control, as clan farming already is.
You didn't mention the farming part - but there are considerable stats kept - therefore ALL farmers (clan and player) extremely easy to identify with data base searches.
Lets start there!
PS. Banned wrongly? example? -
Yeah, pretty much skimmed through it both times before replying, so my bad there. Too many big words and large wall of text, so didn't really read past the 2nd paragraph.
And about the banned wrongly, I don't mean they were banned for no reason, but rather were banned for reasons other than hacking. People still should be able to make a clan in my opinion, because people change. Even if they used to hack or had a bad day and decided to insult people, they should still be able to receive another chance, and I don't feel that not allowing them to make clans is a good solution to preventing hacks. -
I'd happily see the honour ribbon simply stand for 'gameplay' - but its a community thing too.
Plenty of people are just as peeved by scammers etc as they are by hackers - its understandable, these other breaches that cause ribbon loss are just as dishonest - but some even more blatant in their disregard for others.
I'm pretty sure that the 'legit' victims of this get unbanned. -
This is just wrong. You mean that all the players that lost their honorable soldiers couldn't actually join any clan, because the leader won't accept him. The honorable soldier ribbon lost doesen't mean that he hacked, it can be removed even if you swear, or by anything that it's in the rules. -1 to this.
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DarkAvengerr wrote: »This is just wrong. You mean that all the players that lost their honorable soldiers couldn't actually join any clan, because the leader won't accept him. The honorable soldier ribbon lost doesn't mean that he hacked, it can be removed even if you swear, or by anything that it's in the rules. -1 to this.
LOL, after 18 ribbons taken a way, sure wouldn't accept you!
You appear to be proof that the system doesn't work!!
But no.... leaders are free to make own choices/and we know some players reform.
The clan leader is taking more 'risk' accepting a player without an honour ribbon though - but if you know the player irl then it may not be a problem.
If you don't get a clan - i hope you get cold and lonely and rot in hacker hell -
Clans will never be collectively punished for the actions of a single cheater, but I did gather something from this.
Like a ribbon for the whole clan, marking it in the list if every member of the clan still has a honorable soldier ribbon.
No effect obviously, except a visible marker for other users that this clan really tries to stay clean.
I don't know, something to brainstorm around at least. -
Clans will never be collectively punished for the actions of a single cheater, but I did gather something from this.
Like a ribbon for the whole clan, marking it in the list if every member of the clan still has a honorable soldier ribbon.
No effect obviously, except a visible marker for other users that this clan really tries to stay clean.
I don't know, something to brainstorm around at least.
I think the best solution is to monitor clans to see how many ha,kers are in the clan and whether they're just members, a lieutenant or the leader. If it's a lieut and there's more than 1, then that should open some eyes to say that they're a ha,king clan.
Members might be a different story but it can still apply. I do agree that there should be some sort of clan point punishment IF there's a replay recording of a Clan War showing the clan is ha,king.
This might be a little harder to accomplish but knowing there isn't as much traffic in CW's, maybe have a separate section for CW replays? At least that way clans won't have to wait as long with regular reports and the cheating clan gets punished by double the points they won.
If the CW replay were to go to the regular reports, well it will be a year before the clan gets punished and by then, they've won well over the penalty points so there should be a little more priority in CW replays if this would go into effect. -
Clans will never be collectively punished for the actions of a single cheater, but I did gather something from this.
Like a ribbon for the whole clan, marking it in the list if every member of the clan still has a honorable soldier ribbon.
No effect obviously, except a visible marker for other users that this clan really tries to stay clean.
I don't know, something to brainstorm around at least.
Surely its not that big a deal to require clan leaders to have honour ribbon also...
...to both make a clan in the first place, and also to remain as clan leader.
AND - Raise the bar, only punish clans for the actions of multiple cheaters! -
no.
if a clan consists of ten cheaters, ten cheaters will be banned.
the clan is just a name.
NO
A clan is not just a name!
A clan is a ranked entity within the game and always has been - but even more so now with the new clan points system.
Some clan's have a highly developed agenda to rise further up this 'ladder' - no matter what, and foul play, clan farming etc, is the result.
To take no action at all against clans makes a total mockery of the clan ladder system - its also kind of insulting to those of us who are trying to run straight clans and assist weed out the 'cheaters'. -
you weed out cheaters by reporting cheaters
the clan will no longer have a cheater, unfair advantage neutralized
rinse and repeat
Very droll, but not good enough.
This means the clan keeps the 'spoils' the cheaters have gathered (you're actually just creating a motive for cheating)
- unfair advantage still on the books (rank/points) -
you weed out cheaters by reporting cheaters
the clan will no longer have a cheater, unfair advantage neutralized
thats true the unfair advantage is gone once the cheaters are gone.
but it is a fact that they did alot of clan point for that clan befor they got banned.
so the unfair advantage is still there well kinda.
its like that you cheat and then your on top 10 you stop cheating then they dont need that cheating advantage to stay up there. -
well easy.what you're asking for is impossible and extremely unfair to the rest of the clan
if you see a clan that have cheaters like 10-15 cheaters then the clan should also be banned. because those 10-15 cheaters would get alot of clan points in a few days so the unfair advantage allways gonna be there then. -
what you're asking for is impossible and extremely unfair to the rest of the clan
How can it possibly be unfair to remove ill-gotten gains?
That's like not recovering stolen goods -
PoliceManDOT ::
'ah, it woulda been unfair to the guy's family to take back the TV he stole from you, so we left it with them, he's been put away though.'
CF Community::
Oh, ok, no problem, we'll just go buy another one... NOT. Do your job and go and get it back.. they have no lawful ownership!
FAIL -
L_OVER_BO_Y wrote: »@j4mmer
so you want that everthing the cheater done thats removed again?
thats impossible to do. they cant track down what he all did. like clan points or something.
Yeah man, because they totally don't keep track of and show how many clan points people get! -
well they do or they wouldnt know how many points you made that day.Yeah man, because they totally don't keep track of and show how many clan points people get!
but they wont know how much you did that day when its like 4 months ago. -
L_OVER_BO_Y wrote: »well they do or they wouldnt know how many points you made that day.
but they wont know how much you did that day when its like 4 months ago.
Dude, you're putting words into my mouth. I never said ALL POINTS FOR ALL TIME....
this is a developing idea...not prescriptive anyway.
Fact is, i think you missed the point of the last few posts - for one thing, E2Blatant was being sarcastic - if there's one thing they CAN do, its work out what you scored, even easier to assess how many points a clan has made over fixed periods.... this is what data bases do...
SO technically, what I have suggested is really not that hard - given most of these features would be delivered via web not game development - so Z8 don't need to wait for devs to write new code...
But from what Dot contributed - they would first have to recognise that clans have become game entities in their own right, and that ALL cheating entities need to be addressed.. means clans AND players.
seriously.. 
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