Mission DOG TAG, fair or fake? Let's do the math!
Hi ppl.
The dogtag system fails me every time. I always get 8 of 9 dogtags, and then, after getting those 8 dogtags 3 times AGAIN, i get the last one.
So I'm gonna do the math here to prove the developpers that they need to find a new random generator for the game, OR , at least let them admit that it's programmed to NOT give you the dogtag for a number of days.
Let's assume:
1) the dogtag does not depend on the time of day when you finish your mission. ( meaning that whether i finish mission at 3 p.m, or at 4 p.m, has no influence on the tag.)
2) the dogtag does not depend on the mission. ( meaning that if - in an alternate reality - I were to finish mission 3 instead of mission 1 , i'd still get the same tag )
3) the chance of getting each dogtag is the same: 9 different tags, so chance of 1/9 to get each tag.
I will start from the fact that a player ( say myself ) already has 8 out of 9 dogtags. *(1)(see note at bottom of text about this assumption)
The chance of getting that last dogtag is 1/9. I will refer to this event as a 'POSITIVE'. The chance of getting a different one is 8/9. I will refer to this event as a 'NEGATIVE'.
From that day, the probability that I get the correct dogtag on the X-th day ( with X>1) is described by the geometric distribution function *(2)(see reference at bottom of text ).
For example: The probability (= the chance that this would happen to me) of getting a NEGATIVE for 20 days, and getting the POSITIVE on the 21th day is:
Pr(X=21)= POSITIVE * (NEGATIVE)^X-1
Pr(x=21)= (1/9) * (8/9)^20
Pr(x=21)=0.01053%
MEANING: there is a chance of 1.1 percent that this should happen to me.
Okay, you can say, 1.1%, if you have 9000 players, then this would happen to 99 of them. Okay, I can live with that.
But this calculation method applies to anything with fair odds. So using the same rule, let's calculate the probability of this happening to me ( or you )... about 5 times?
( with NEGATIVE = chance that it happens to me , and POSITIVE = chance that i doesnt happen to me )
Pr(Y=6)= (NEGATIVE)^Y-1 * POSITIVE
Pr(Y=6)= (0.01053)^5 * 0.98947
Pr(Y=6)= 1.2809E-10 ( = 0.00000012809 PERCENT chance, - don't count zero's, give or take XD )
Concluding: the chance that 5 times in a row, you get 20 NEGATIVES and then a POSITIVE is astronomically small.
Either I am the unluckiest ******* in the world, or the dogtag-system is programmed to give you anything but the right tag ( for number of days ). Or, the third option: The random generator used by the game is about as good a random generator as the following code:
for(int i=0;i<20;i++){
dogtag = Player.get_List_of_owned_Dogtag().get(i%8);
}
NOTES: ( for the educated ppl among u )
(1) If I start calculating from the very start (0 dogtags->8 different dogtags->then calculating odds for 9th tag), then the math gets to complicated to explain in a foreign language, but those calculations would conclude the same thing.
(2) geometric distribution : this is a function that describes the chances of event with succes rate 'p' occurring after 'k-1' fails. See wikipedia if u are not familiar with basic statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_distribution
The dogtag system fails me every time. I always get 8 of 9 dogtags, and then, after getting those 8 dogtags 3 times AGAIN, i get the last one.
So I'm gonna do the math here to prove the developpers that they need to find a new random generator for the game, OR , at least let them admit that it's programmed to NOT give you the dogtag for a number of days.
Let's assume:
1) the dogtag does not depend on the time of day when you finish your mission. ( meaning that whether i finish mission at 3 p.m, or at 4 p.m, has no influence on the tag.)
2) the dogtag does not depend on the mission. ( meaning that if - in an alternate reality - I were to finish mission 3 instead of mission 1 , i'd still get the same tag )
3) the chance of getting each dogtag is the same: 9 different tags, so chance of 1/9 to get each tag.
I will start from the fact that a player ( say myself ) already has 8 out of 9 dogtags. *(1)(see note at bottom of text about this assumption)
The chance of getting that last dogtag is 1/9. I will refer to this event as a 'POSITIVE'. The chance of getting a different one is 8/9. I will refer to this event as a 'NEGATIVE'.
From that day, the probability that I get the correct dogtag on the X-th day ( with X>1) is described by the geometric distribution function *(2)(see reference at bottom of text ).
For example: The probability (= the chance that this would happen to me) of getting a NEGATIVE for 20 days, and getting the POSITIVE on the 21th day is:
Pr(X=21)= POSITIVE * (NEGATIVE)^X-1
Pr(x=21)= (1/9) * (8/9)^20
Pr(x=21)=0.01053%
MEANING: there is a chance of 1.1 percent that this should happen to me.
Okay, you can say, 1.1%, if you have 9000 players, then this would happen to 99 of them. Okay, I can live with that.
But this calculation method applies to anything with fair odds. So using the same rule, let's calculate the probability of this happening to me ( or you )... about 5 times?
( with NEGATIVE = chance that it happens to me , and POSITIVE = chance that i doesnt happen to me )
Pr(Y=6)= (NEGATIVE)^Y-1 * POSITIVE
Pr(Y=6)= (0.01053)^5 * 0.98947
Pr(Y=6)= 1.2809E-10 ( = 0.00000012809 PERCENT chance, - don't count zero's, give or take XD )
Concluding: the chance that 5 times in a row, you get 20 NEGATIVES and then a POSITIVE is astronomically small.
Either I am the unluckiest ******* in the world, or the dogtag-system is programmed to give you anything but the right tag ( for number of days ). Or, the third option: The random generator used by the game is about as good a random generator as the following code:
for(int i=0;i<20;i++){
dogtag = Player.get_List_of_owned_Dogtag().get(i%8);
}
NOTES: ( for the educated ppl among u )
(1) If I start calculating from the very start (0 dogtags->8 different dogtags->then calculating odds for 9th tag), then the math gets to complicated to explain in a foreign language, but those calculations would conclude the same thing.
(2) geometric distribution : this is a function that describes the chances of event with succes rate 'p' occurring after 'k-1' fails. See wikipedia if u are not familiar with basic statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_distribution
Comments
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you're implying that each outcome affects all the others...
every day you have a 1/9 chance of getting a selected dogtag.
this does not affect the next days dog tag, and is not affected by what you got the previous day.
learn basic probability rules...
but anyway, we dont need more than one topic on this issue, so in future, please use this thread
or use the search bar -
I'm not implying that they are dependent. But I am calculating the chance that the SEQUENCE happens.
The chance that i get the dogtag is 1/9 every day over. Its the chance that for 20 days straight i get the negative, and then the positive. The chance of the dogtag does not change. -
To illustrate:
If i were to take the sum of:
-> the chance that i get 9 times a NEGATIVE, and then a POSITIVE , plus
the chance that i get 10 times a NEGATIVE, and then a POSITIVE, plus..
and so on... to infinite
( meaning i'd calculate the probability that it would take longer than 9 days to get the correct dogtag )
that sum should be ( if the odd are fair ) 1/9.
But i am talking about the chances that the sequence of the events occurs -
my dear lord... I just came home from math class and this is what I find?!
We even had the exact same subject at school..
Can you count the chances of this bull***t happening to me?
Oh yeah, seems like the chances are too small.
Idk how could old game like CF have system that makes everything random xD.
Im sure that there is some secret behind this, just like black market.
It just cannot be 100% random. -
Concluding: the chance that 5 times in a row, you get 20 NEGATIVES and then a POSITIVE is astronomically small.
You've got exactly that 5 times in a row? Hard to believe, but if you knew the basic rules of statistics, then there is nothing stopping that from happening. Therefore, your just unlucky
. -
Concluding: the chance that 5 times in a row, you get 20 NEGATIVES and then a POSITIVE is astronomically small.
[/i]
Small but not impossible ! .. so i guess you unlucky ... just like me as that happens allot to me, an quite a few ppl i know lol , so what the probability of lots of ppl being that unluck .. go work out
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Pretty much. He is confusing the opportunity to win with the chance to win. Your chance of winning a letter is 9/9. Your chance of getting a specific letter is 1/9. Your chance to get a letter you "need" diminishes with each success, with x/9 as the formula (x being the number of open slots). None of this means that you cannot also receive a letter you don't "need". Your chance of an undesired result grows with success as well.There's not much to say.
Each day you have a 1/9 chance of winning your desired tag.
That's it. -
nuff said.you're implying that each outcome affects all the others...
every day you have a 1/9 chance of getting a selected dogtag.
this does not affect the next days dog tag, and is not affected by what you got the previous day.
learn basic probability rules... -
you're implying that each outcome affects all the others...
every day you have a 1/9 chance of getting a selected dogtag.
this does not affect the next days dog tag, and is not affected by what you got the previous day.
learn basic probability rules...
but anyway, we dont need more than one topic on this issue, so in future, please use this thread
or use the search bar
^This
Good try. -
Random generators doing this type of thing is nothing new.
Back when I was playing Pokemon Gold 9 years ago I was trying to find a Ponyta on route 26..
Even tho it has a 20% chance of appearing on a encounter, it took me 2 hours before I found my first one. Hundreds of encounters in that 2 hours to find something that has a 20% chance of appearing.
Humans have a very bad grasp on probability.
If you ask one person to make up a list of 100 possible coin flips and then ask someone else to flip a coin 100 times and record them, easily the majority of the time its easy to tell which one was made up and which one was the real record.
The made up on will rarely have more then 4 in a row but the real one can have 10 in a row easy. -
The dog tag system is similar to the BM system, they are rigged in such a way that makes it so hard to tell that we all just assume it is luck.
Fixed it for you. :P
Probability is weird though. You can flip a coin 1000000000000000000000000 times and it could be all heads, even though the chance of flipping tails at least one time in two flips is technically 1... (1/2+1/2)
Probability is based on the idea that EVENTUALLY if you account ALL THE TRIALS that it will end up being the predicted probability. It might take you a month to get one letter, but for someone it will take a day to get the last one.
Last thing: It's a lot easier to remember how unlucky you were than how lucky you were. Let's say you win a BM gun in one crate but you don't even see a different one in 1000000 crates. What will you remember more vividly?
-
-
Ironically enough, one day after I post this , what do I GET ? THE FINAL DOGTAG XD , lols... it's actually around the 20th mission XD
I haven't gone so far as to document every dogtag i get every day, but it would seem that I do am unlucky XD . but you know what they say, less luck in games, more luck in luv XD
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