Getting Down To The Issues
![[MOD]Polleus](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/7/navatar_8918107.gif){kind=avatar}
waiting on league action ..
I've been seeing this a lot lately, considering now that ESL is anything but certain and WOGL is again the only organization in CF offering what one might consider competitive events. A lot of you claim to want competitive action but are you all really serious about that or do you just want something to do to take up your spare time? It seems that almost every season of WOGL and the first season of ESL there is always a problem where teams simply don't take the competition seriously. I understand that there are inherent problems with the Leagues that we won't discuss here, but let's look past that for now. I'm directly addressing the attitudes of you as players and as teams wanting "competition".
Let's take all the details out of it. Let's say a group comes in with a great anti-cheat and a great system. How would your attitudes be? Would they change? Would you actually take things somewhat seriously or would the competition still be a "something to take up my time" situation? All other things aside, everyone season of WOGL or ESL, it never fails that at least 50% of the teams simply don't take anything seriously. Their team, their actions, their games, none of it. I find it hard to believe that would change overnight because of a new organization. That attitude hasn't changed in 3 seasons of competition.
Everyone blames the Leagues for the bad quality of competition in Cross Fire. Shouldn't the blame at least be first directed at the players and their attitudes? You can't have competition without the players. You can't have players without legitimate interest in competition. So, can these attitudes change or will we always have a "whatever" attitude? Even if a legitimate organization were to come in to Cross Fire, would that change your attitude about the game? Your interest in the game? I have doubts that even if a group were to come in here, the same problems would arise even with a great anti-cheat and a great group to run it. Even a great organization can't hope to succeed when the players don't care about what they're doing.
Thoughts? Comments? Discussion? Constructive arguments?
This thread will be moderated closely as it is a delicate subject and will be needing the extra moderation. Please keep your comments constructive, even if being argumentative. Let's try and get a good discussion going to start off the week.
Comments
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This game will always be just a hobby, and people have varying time to put into it. Communities change often, people leave and people join. The problem is that with leagues being the way they are right now we are not attracting the "serious" kind of player. In fact many have left in the past.
Sadly, unless this latest issue with WCG is fixed I will be one of them, along with most of my team. -
there's not enough money in tournaments
So, in your opinion, you're saying that the amount of money awarded dictates the seriousness of teams that participate? That higher amounts of money will adjust attitudes towards a more serious direction?This game will always be just a hobby, and people have varying time to put into it. Communities change often, people leave and people join. The problem is that with leagues being the way they are right now we are not attracting the "serious" kind of player. In fact many have left in the past.
Sadly, unless this latest issue with WCG is fixed I will be one of them, along with most of my team.
Right. I understand what you mean. Are you implying that IF a group were to come here and do things more seriously, it attract more serious players? Or would it not matter? -
Reasons why the competition in this game is dead.
1. People think they are good when they are not.
2. People gets really nervous ranging from scrims to tournaments.
3. Lack of fps experience for players, making every strat the same for almost every team.
4. It's a free game, there is bound to be cheaters who try to get competitive.
5. This game gives players with low ping a much higher advantage.
6. Sometimes mods are too strict on trash talk. I say trash talk should be allowed, along with profanity but must be kept at a limit. No need to lock threads just because some losers talk shyt without being able to back their shyt up. This can't happen though because of the average age of this game.
7. Racism. Brazilians are actually really professional gamers in the e-sport world but too many people categorize them with the cheaters they see regularly. When I go to d9, I sometimes see players who have higher ping than slaya but are much better than him.
There are also some people who hates playing with "ch1nks". Get off your racist ass and get good.wikipedia wrote:The Brazilian industry of gaming is growing increasingly. In 2008, a growth of 31% in the software and 8% in the hardware (physical part of a computer and its peripherals). "The trend is to continue to grow and strengthen it.", says the chairman of Brazilian Association of Developers of Electronic Games (Abragames), Winston Petty.[1]
8. Quit fuhking complaining. Some of you trash have like a stick up your ass. Quit crying about boosting/trying hard. Boosting isn't wrong AT ALL, learn to check corners with your team. Stop calling people tryhards when you are probably trying too. There's no way you can get good without trying. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »So, in your opinion, you're saying that the amount of money awarded dictates the seriousness of teams that participate? That higher amounts of money will adjust attitudes towards a more serious direction?
Right. I understand what you mean. Are you implying that IF a group were to come here and do things more seriously, it attract more serious players? Or would it not matter?
It may be too late, a big amount of the potential pool of "serious" players has already tried or heard about this game and formed an opinion about its leagues.
If I am, however, underestimating the amount of serious players out there, then having a league do things in a more "serious" way would, arguably, attract this kind of player or, at the very least, make sure we do not lose any of our current ones or future ones. -
If something were to bring a better anti-cheat, better prizes, and great staff, I'm sure more serious players would arise. The whole reason most people don't take this game seriously is because we literally have nothing good. WOGL? Broken anti-cheat, corrupt staff, prizes take months to be given out. ESL? Anti-cheat never even worked, admins quit, I don't even think they were giving prizes. I'm sure if all of this were to happen, serious players would come back, or even new serious teams would form.
Most serious players haven't left, they're just lingering around waiting for something good to happen. -
It may be too late, a big amount of the potential pool of "serious" players has already tried or heard about this game and formed an opinion about its leagues.
If I am, however, underestimating the amount of serious players out there, then having a league do things in a more "serious" way would, arguably, attract this kind of player or, at the very least, make sure we do not lose any of our current ones or future ones.
I certainly hope its not too late and I really hope that you are underestimating the amount of serious players. I'd like to see at least one serious thing going on for this game before everyone moves on. -
[MOD]Polleus wrote: »I certainly hope its not too late and I really hope that you are underestimating the amount of serious players. I'd like to see at least one serious thing going on for this game before everyone moves on.
Not going to happen when LL get's a low blow forfeit win to korea. -
Very good posts from sLaNt and Tae
I agree with nearly all the points Taeyeon stated
Whether it's a free game or not, it doesn't matter. What you said happens in every single game which has at least a shadow of competitive scene. Problem is that cheaters are treated in a horrible way here. You see people like SuKo and different ex-cheaters still playing this game like they didn't do anything, some people even suck up to them. Correct me if I'm wrong SuKo?taeyeoNNNNNN wrote: »Reasons why the competition in this game is dead.
4. It's a free game, there is bound to be cheaters who try to get competitive.
In other competitive games (I'll compare it to COD4 because that's the only competitive game I play as of now) you get bashed on for cheating/getting busted. In this game people simply don't give a damn.
He cheated? No big deal, I don't care. Another problem is the massive load of hackusations. If you THINK someone is cheating then for ****'s sake PROVE it. Stop continuosly repeating it in-game, unless you don't mind making yourself look dumb, because after all it's just the internet.
No serious organizations and/or leagues will pick this game up if people won't change, at least a little.
I know your question was directed towards sLaNt but I'd like to share my answer too. It totally would matter[MOD]Polleus wrote: »Right. I understand what you mean. Are you implying that IF a group were to come here and do things more seriously, it attract more serious players? Or would it not matter?
I think people would be attracted and perhaps take things more seriously if THAT group looked promising and serious enough. Not some amateur bull****.
But after WOGL pulling off some nasty crap in WCG.ca, shouldn't we all ask ourselves if there's still a point to take this seriously/play it competitively? -
Very good posts from sLaNt and Tae
I agree with nearly all the points Taeyeon stated
Whether it's a free game or not, it doesn't matter. What you said happens in every single game which has at least a shadow of competitive scene. Problem is that cheaters are treated in a horrible way here. You see people like SuKo and different ex-cheaters still playing this game like they didn't do anything, some people even suck up to them. Correct me if I'm wrong SuKo?
In other competitive games (I'll compare it to COD4 because that's the only competitive game I play as of now) you get bashed on for cheating/getting busted. In this game people simply don't give a damn.
He cheated? No big deal, I don't care. Another problem is the massive load of hackusations. If you THINK someone is cheating then for ****'s sake PROVE it. Stop continuosly repeating it in-game, unless you don't mind making yourself look dumb, because after all it's just the internet.
No serious organizations and/or leagues will pick this game up if people won't change, at least a little.
I know your question was directed towards sLaNt but I'd like to share my answer too. It totally would matter
I think people would be attracted and perhaps take things more seriously if THAT group looked promising and serious enough. Not some amateur bull****.
But after WOGL pulling off some nasty crap in WCG.ca, shouldn't we all ask ourselves if there's still a point to take this game seriously?
I have yet to see a free FPS game hit the competitive US e-sport scene and leave a noticable 'dent'. Crossfire, AVA and Soldier Front are the only US FPS that went on a world LAN tournament but even in Soldier Front, the community is dying. Scar is a cheater in ch10 yet he is still playing competitively. Even in WCG, CF and SF will only get a small event time compared to huge games. In other words, CF and SF are 'filler-events'. -
Another point that I forgot to add. North America grows really slowly in E-Sport. In fact, they are the most premature E-sport region in the category of "free games". Not many people sees games as a sport in NA. Brasil, EU, Korea, China and etc are all countries who are slowly accepting E-Sports as a "real" sport. The people in North America are concerned with earning big bucks, guess how much money playing CF competitively will earn you? What you earn in CF a year will not even constitute to what I can earn flipping burgers in McDonalds. Only games that will be noticed are the big games that will earn you money. SC2, LoL, WC3, CS. I don't think winning a season in WOGL and split 1 grand with your team is even worth mentioning. It's only games in NA where people will use the insult "get a life". When you use that insult in Asia, people will just think you are a downie.
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taeyeoNNNNNN wrote: »Another point that I forgot to add. North America grows really slowly in E-Sport. In fact, they are the most premature E-sport region in the category of "free games". Not many people sees games as a sport in NA. Brasil, EU, Korea, China and etc are all countries who are slowly accepting E-Sports as a "real" sport. The people in North America are concerned with earning big bucks, guess how much money playing CF competitively will earn you? What you earn in CF a year will not even constitute to what I can earn flipping burgers in McDonalds. Only games that will be noticed are the big games that will earn you money. SC2, LoL, WC3, CS. I don't think winning a season in WOGL and split 1 grand with your team is even worth mentioning. It's only games in NA where people will use the insult "get a life". When you use that insult in Asia, people will just think you are a downie.
Did you know, The Rain Man makes up to 100,000 a year JUST by streaming 10 hours a day. -
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PR0PAGANDA wrote: »maybe z8 could start weekend events that are overseen by in game mods in a certain server , channel , room , ect . ?
we need to get something going to keep the game competitive and Fair
we are looking for competition, not pubstar events.
Want to get rid of pubstars from a channel/server? Make you not be able to get exp from certain channels, and you only get the amount of GP it takes to repair your gun. -
taeyeoNNNNNN wrote: »we are looking for competition, not pubstar events.
Want to get rid of pubstars from a channel/server? Make you not be able to get exp from certain channels, and you only get the amount of GP it takes to repair your gun.
excuse me..... hiccup *
how are we gonna keep it fair then? replays? , xtrap ? lol
ya gotta start somewhere -
1000 dollars is not a good incentive for a majority of people to take the league serious. Split between 5 people that money will be gone in 3 days off gasoline alone. A bigger prize pot will draw in a bigger and even more diverse group of people. I see more people interested in winning that xfire alienware contest than anything else. Because if u add up the stuff u get, that a nice amount of crap for one person to enjoy. And if u noticed z8 is promoting this event rather well on the homepage, the forums, the splash screen and ingame with the little ticker. WOGL and ESL can work with a little motivation.
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taeyeoNNNNNN wrote: »Another point that I forgot to add. North America grows really slowly in E-Sport. In fact, they are the most premature E-sport region in the category of "free games". Not many people sees games as a sport in NA. Brasil, EU, Korea, China and etc are all countries who are slowly accepting E-Sports as a "real" sport. The people in North America are concerned with earning big bucks, guess how much money playing CF competitively will earn you? What you earn in CF a year will not even constitute to what I can earn flipping burgers in McDonalds. Only games that will be noticed are the big games that will earn you money. SC2, LoL, WC3, CS. I don't think winning a season in WOGL and split 1 grand with your team is even worth mentioning. It's only games in NA where people will use the insult "get a life". When you use that insult in Asia, people will just think you are a downie.
Is there anyway to get e-sports recognized as a "real" sport then? Well that would take a couple things, A company to pay the players, players, and an audience to watch it to make money for the company. Americans dont give a damn about gaming to turn their tvs on and watch you get flicked on by 15 over and over again rather than watching kobe dragging his nuts on wade and yamming that shi7. -
PR0PAGANDA wrote: »excuse me..... hiccup *
how are we gonna keep it fair then?
Events don't keep things fair, we are talking about the competitive community. People who are going to play competitive could care less about events. There are only so many mods in this game that can regulate scrims. Important matches get reviewed by staffs.
Think before you throw out a suggestion. -
1000 dollars is not a good incentive for a majority of people to take the league serious. Split between 5 people that money will be gone in 3 days off gasoline alone. A bigger prize pot will draw in a bigger and even more diverse group of people. I see more people interested in winning that xfire alienware contest than anything else. Because if u add up the stuff u get, that a nice amount of crap for one person to enjoy. And if u noticed z8 is promoting this event rather well on the homepage, the forums, the splash screen and ingame with the little ticker. WOGL and ESL can work with a little motivation.
Where would the motivation come when you'll have players still not taking it seriously because of whatever reasons; AC, little prizes, its a game who cares, etc. Its like all your hard work gets thrown down the drain because no one else gives a damn. -
I believe what I have seen is that these organizations have come into CF and underestimated the amount of work this community entails. Group A comes in and designates that 2 to 3 Admins will be enough to handle it and then figures out half way during the season that it isn't enough. Out goes Group A's credibility as an organized group. Out goes all seriousness and/or confidence players had in that group. See what I mean?
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I agree wit taeyeoN about the lack of fps experience..
I mean almost every member of Optimum (except 1 or 2) has never played anything other than CF with a piece of sh1t pcs in alpha server pubs.
It's our first time even touching anything competitive... -
That's a really stupid thing to do especially when you take under consideration everything included in this link:Suggestion, beg esea to drop tf2 and put cf in its place.
Thoughts ?
http://iseries.multiplay.co.uk/i43/tournaments/event/team-fortress-2/
in 3 words; NOT GONNA HAPPEN
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