Graphical Explanation of How People See Guns
Many of you it seems, do not understand how people can possibly think that M12s isn't as Overpowered as is often stated. The reason is because of different skill levels.
Here is a graphical demonstration
Explanation of graph:
The lines demonstrate how lethal a weapon becomes once it is used by a person with a certain 'skill level'. I've converted Skill level to numbers to make it easier for me to handle. 100 Skill level basically means you are GOD, the best, whatever. 0 means you don't have any experience in FPS, and your an unlucky newb.
Further Explanation:
What this basically means is, M12s may give you a siginificant boost in lethality below 40 skill level. Above 50 or so it ceases to give any siginificant boost as it is an SMG. SMGs are inherently weak in this game.
The SL follows in a similar vein. However, as it is a rifle, the boost it gets is much higher. However, the higher skilled you get, the more you find that that gap will begin to shorten. Eventually, the 3 big guns in CF (M4, AK, AWM) even take over.
However, as many of you are stuck on the 50 skill level stage or 'average'. You only see your point of view, leading to many people saying SL is OP etc. Whereas people at the top of their game around 80-90 skill level, tend to have a favourite gun in which they can kill everyone with it, no matter what the opponent is using. In addition, they rarely feel or even care about what the opponent is using as guns are SO similar in CF.
Things to learn/discuss in this thread
1) People see guns differently according to skill level
2) When choosing a gun to use, think about what skill level you are and what you want to be
3) This can be creatively applied to using armour/no armour, axe/shovel etc
4) Try and think about why other people have different views
Things to bear in mind when reading this thread
1) The Original Poster of this thread is severly biased towards M4s as that is his favourite gun
2) The Values have no actual data apart from intuition
3) Therefore the graph may look un/exaggerated
4) The views of the original poster may also be biased
So.... What do you guys think? Anything I missed? Is it total bullsh*t? Discuss.
Here is a graphical demonstration
Explanation of graph:
The lines demonstrate how lethal a weapon becomes once it is used by a person with a certain 'skill level'. I've converted Skill level to numbers to make it easier for me to handle. 100 Skill level basically means you are GOD, the best, whatever. 0 means you don't have any experience in FPS, and your an unlucky newb.
Further Explanation:
What this basically means is, M12s may give you a siginificant boost in lethality below 40 skill level. Above 50 or so it ceases to give any siginificant boost as it is an SMG. SMGs are inherently weak in this game.
The SL follows in a similar vein. However, as it is a rifle, the boost it gets is much higher. However, the higher skilled you get, the more you find that that gap will begin to shorten. Eventually, the 3 big guns in CF (M4, AK, AWM) even take over.
However, as many of you are stuck on the 50 skill level stage or 'average'. You only see your point of view, leading to many people saying SL is OP etc. Whereas people at the top of their game around 80-90 skill level, tend to have a favourite gun in which they can kill everyone with it, no matter what the opponent is using. In addition, they rarely feel or even care about what the opponent is using as guns are SO similar in CF.
Things to learn/discuss in this thread
1) People see guns differently according to skill level
2) When choosing a gun to use, think about what skill level you are and what you want to be
3) This can be creatively applied to using armour/no armour, axe/shovel etc
4) Try and think about why other people have different views
Things to bear in mind when reading this thread
1) The Original Poster of this thread is severly biased towards M4s as that is his favourite gun
2) The Values have no actual data apart from intuition
3) Therefore the graph may look un/exaggerated
4) The views of the original poster may also be biased
So.... What do you guys think? Anything I missed? Is it total bullsh*t? Discuss.
Comments
-
As said in my first post. All info is by my intuition only, therefore it could be biased as I am a heavy M4 user.Where exactly did you get this information?(for the graph)
As said before, based on slightly different viewpoints, you may think AK is better than M4. But that does not take away from the fact that at higher levels of play, all the assault rifles have quite similar lethality.ChrisRaymond wrote: »Kalashnikov > ALL -
Then it's not information, it's speculation.GodsGunman wrote: »^this.
msg2short
It is information and speculation.
Information:
1. knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance; news: information concerning a crime.
2. knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.
Nevertheless, I wanted to put what I thought was logical down. You are of course free to disagree and tell me it's not information. However, may I ask if there is any element of truth in what i'm saying? Or what is the real situation in Crossfire concerning the balancing of guns? -
It is information and speculation.
Information:
1. knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance; news: information concerning a crime.
2. knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.
Nevertheless, I wanted to put what I thought was logical down. You are of course free to disagree and tell me it's not information. However, may I ask if there is any element of truth in what i'm saying? Or what is the real situation in Crossfire concerning the balancing of guns?
fine i'll read it and then get back to you -.-' didnt want to read it initially because of the ugly colour and size you chose. looks unappealing.
*edit*
read it and relooked at the graph.
you think an awm is harder to use than an m4a1?... just no. also ak is a lot easier to use than the awm.
m12s is way easier to use than a scar light, so starting them off at the same point is stupid.
the ak-47 should have a curve in the graph, it gets from harder than the m4 to easier and then back to harder, because once you know how recoil works and to move your cursor down a little bit, it's a lot easier to use an ak-47. At higher levels they get more even.
The scar light does the same damage as the m4a1 and it has the same rate of fire. the only thing different between the two is the spray pattern, and the scar light has a much tighter spray pattern than the m4a1. so you saying the scar light gets harder to use than the m4a1, AK-47, and AWM makes no sense whatsoever.
I could make a "guide" with all of the information I just had up there^, however it would still just be speculation unless I used actual data. -
GodsGunman wrote: »Answers in red
read it and relooked at the graph.
you think an awm is harder to use than an m4a1?... just no. also ak is a lot easier to use than the awm.
I did not say that in the thread. Even though I believe that is true, this thread has nothing to do with how easy a gun is used... What I am trying to say is, if you were the equivalent of God, there would be a maximum proficiency you could achieve with that weapon. Assuming you can headshot people with no difficulty at any range (as God). Then, there difference in LETHALITY of said weapons (which is what the y-axis is) would be minimal. (There would be a few situational differences, for example where you can't see the head.)
m12s is way easier to use than a scar light, so starting them off at the same point is stupid.
To say again, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with ease of use. It is how lethal the weapon is in the hands of a beginner, average player, above average and all powerful player. In addition, I would like to point out the fact that it is your opinion that M12s is easier to use than SL. I have not stated anything I have said as fact, you should not either.
the ak-47 should have a curve in the graph, it gets from harder than the m4 to easier and then back to harder, because once you know how recoil works and to move your cursor down a little bit, it's a lot easier to use an ak-47. At higher levels they get more even.
Explanation of graph is, as you get more proficient with your weapon, the more lethal it becomes. Yes, the graphs can be curved, but the straight lines were there to make it easy to demonstrate the main point of the thread 'People with different skillsets will find different guns OP, while the more higher you get up the skill level, the more you realise, the difference between the often used guns in CF is minimal.
The scar light does the same damage as the m4a1 and it has the same rate of fire. the only thing different between the two is the spray pattern, and the scar light has a much tighter spray pattern than the m4a1. so you saying the scar light gets harder to use than the m4a1, AK-47, and AWM makes no sense whatsoever.
Not everything can be measured in stats. I like to believe that the M4 is more consistent in it's shots (accuracy wise), even at long distances. I can not prove this, but hopefully one day you will
.
I could make a "guide" with all of the information I just had up there^, however it would still just be speculation unless I used actual data.
Feel free to make a similar guide with what you think is the correct interpretation, but please make sure you understand what I am trying to say first.
msg2shortcosofquote -
It is information and speculation.
Information:
1. knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance; news: information concerning a crime.
2. knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.
Well this isn't necessarily fact, nor has there been any study or specific research. It's not factual data.
It's not information.
There is no real way to define skill level, it's all perception and perspective.
Take me for example. I couldn't the broad side of a barn with an AK, but I have the gamesense of a ninja on cocaine. That's how I play. But you can't say I'm more lethal than someone who just started playing. Especially if they spray as much as I do.
The graphical explanation of guns being more lethal with higher skill level is extremely linear, and very broad. -
msg2shortcosofquote
well when I was talking about certain guns being harder to use, I was referring to in your chart at the very beginning where the skill is as low as possible for each weapon.
If you have a predetermined skill level and the lethality changes depending which gun you use, that means that it's easier to use the guns that have more lethality at the same skill level.
How you don't understand this I'm not sure. -
Well this isn't necessarily fact, nor has there been any study or specific research. It's not factual data.
It's not information.
Information does not have to be factual data.
There is no real way to define skill level, it's all perception and perspective.
Yes that is true.
Take me for example. I couldn't the broad side of a barn with an AK, but I have the gamesense of a ninja on cocaine. That's how I play. But you can't say I'm more lethal than someone who just started playing. Especially if they spray as much as I do.
I am talking about skill level as in the control you have over the gun. Surely you would play better if you had epic gamesense and controlled the gun well.
The graphical explanation of guns being more lethal with higher skill level is extremely linear, and very broad.
Yes, it is. It is also very biased
This is based purely on opinion.
An opinion most are already aware of.
If most are aware of it then please explain:
1) Why people still think M12s are OP at all levels, no matter the skill level. When clearly it is not. If there were 2 Godlike players who could hit every shot. The one using ARs would win 99% of the time, as M12s is not a 1 hit kill.
2) Why people place so much importance on damage and recoil. When the thing that should matter the most is accuracy and whether or not it is a 1 hit kill.
I'm extremely disappoint in you Henry.
GodsGunman wrote: »well when I was talking about certain guns being harder to use, I was referring to in your chart at the very beginning where the skill is as low as possible for each weapon.
If you have a predetermined skill level and the lethality changes depending which gun you use, that means that it's easier to use the guns that have more lethality at the same skill level.
Yes. Guns can be easier to use, but also there is a maximum lethality that a gun can do. If you had a m9, there is only so much you can do, even if you hit every shot on the head perfectly. (As it is not 1 hit kill, much like M12s). Therefore, I proposed that as you got closer and closer to that 'perfection' i.e. hitting the head every time. The difference in how good guns could be via your perceptions would be almost the same. As they all do the same thing. Hit the head once for a kill.
How you don't understand this I'm not sure.
Please try to understand my view too. I am trying very hard to understand you.If you could hit every shot with AWM then it would be the best gun in the game.
You haven't really thought about the time between shots though, or the manouevrability. The fact that ARs can take out multiple enemies within the same 2 secs, sort of averages out the AWM and the ARs to me. But that's my opinion.
But i'm proposing there is a max lethality to a gun. I am also proposing the max lethality of the M12s is higher than that of the M9 but lower than that of M4, AK, AWM, SL. And that therefore, instead of constantly arguing about it, we should just compare how good the gun could 'possibly' be rather than how well some people use it.Point is : you can fail and use the m12s and fail more
you can be a pro and get 78 -13 kdr in one match with an m9
no gun is too nooby as long as you know how to use it -
But i'm proposing there is a max lethality to a gun. I am also proposing the max lethality of the M12s is higher than that of the M9 but lower than that of M4, AK, AWM, SL. And that therefore, instead of constantly arguing about it, we should just compare how good the gun could 'possibly' be rather than how well some people use it.
I don't think you understood me this whole time. I was not talking about your graph as a whole, I'm picking specific things that don't make sense on it. Please re-read my previous posts as I don't think you understood them. -
Ok... You said
Shouldn't the gun that is easier to use, have higher lethality at skill level 0? AWM has higher lethality, so I thought I would be easier to use at lower skill levels.you think an awm is harder to use than an m4a1?... just no. also ak is a lot easier to use than the awm.
Also, I unfortunately don't agree that ak is easier to use than AWM, but that is opinion based.
What I am trying to get at here, is not how easy a gun can be used. But how lethal it is in various stages of learning to use the gun.
e.g.
M4 is a fairly weak AR at the start damage wise. Therefore, you may find that SL and AK outperform it if you consistently aim for the chest/legs. (Skill level 0.)
That is why AK and SL starts higher up the chart at Skill level 0.
However once you start consistently aiming for the head, (Skill level 80). The differences in performance gradually lessen. Till I think the stability of the M4 means that it begins to outperform the other 2 guns.
That is why the gap between AK/SL and M4 gradually reduces.
@ Sonicace. This was never meant to be an EXACT display of the graph. It is simplified to demonstrate a point. -
Ok... You said Shouldn't the gun that is easier to use, have higher lethality at skill level 0? AWM has higher lethality, so I thought I would be easier to use at lower skill levels.
Also, I unfortunately don't agree that ak is easier to use than AWM, but that is opinion based.
What I am trying to get at here, is not how easy a gun can be used. But how lethal it is in various stages of learning to use the gun.
e.g.
M4 is a fairly weak AR at the start damage wise. Therefore, you may find that SL and AK outperform it if you consistently aim for the chest/legs. (Skill level 0.)
That is why AK and SL starts higher up the chart at Skill level 0.
However once you start consistently aiming for the head, (Skill level 80). The differences in performance gradually lessen. Till I think the stability of the M4 means that it begins to outperform the other 2 guns.
That is why the gap between AK/SL and M4 gradually reduces.
@ Sonicace. This was never meant to be an EXACT display of the graph. It is simplified to demonstrate a point.
with the AWM you have to aim, with the AK you can just spray and get kills.
the m4a1 is not that weak, it does the same damage as the scar light.
I'm not even talking about as the skill level goes up, because there it gets more based on opinion. I'm just talking about skill level 0. -
GodsGunman wrote: »with the AWM you have to aim, with the AK you can just spray and get kills.
the m4a1 is not that weak, it does the same damage as the scar light.
I'm not even talking about as the skill level goes up, because there it gets more based on opinion. I'm just talking about skill level 0.
I am somewhat doubtful that you don't have to aim with the ak. Surely, that's like saying if you noscope with the AWM you can get kill. Nevertheless I get your logic, would you be happier if AK was higher than AWM?
But as you said, SL has higher ROF. ROF matters if you aim for the feet/chest.
Don't get too bogged down on the details, try to see the bigger picture. What I was mainly hoping to explain was that as skill increases, differences and therefore how OP certain guns look should be decreased. If you ignored the graph, what do you think of that hypothesis?
i started off being better with an m4 than an ak.
explain that...
I think you are misunderstanding. Skill level is not your total skill level. This does not include your gamesense or how you use multiple guns. It is how proficient you are with a single specific weapon.
If you started off better with M4 then you were maybe average skill level for M4 but only below average when using AK. -
GodsGunman wrote: »with the AWM you have to aim, with the AK you can just spray and get kills.
the m4a1 is not that weak, it does the same damage as the scar light.
I'm not even talking about as the skill level goes up, because there it gets more based on opinion. I'm just talking about skill level 0.
SL is stronger than M4. -
I am somewhat doubtful that you don't have to aim with the ak. Surely, that's like saying if you noscope with the AWM you can get kill. Nevertheless I get your logic, would you be happier if AK was higher than AWM?
But as you said, SL has higher ROF. ROF matters if you aim for the feet/chest.
Don't get too bogged down on the details, try to see the bigger picture. What I was mainly hoping to explain was that as skill increases, differences and therefore how OP certain guns look should be decreased. If you ignored the graph, what do you think of that hypothesis?
Please tell me where I said the scar light has a higher RoF. I did say that they're the same, as quoted below.GodsGunman wrote: »The scar light does the same damage as the m4a1 and it has the same rate of fire.
and details are everything.
As for your hypothesis, I do agree with that and ever since I figured out the DPS of the m12s compared to other guns I've believed that. I just don't like how you displayed it.SL is stronger than M4.
only by 2 dmg per bullet, not a huge difference so I didn't mention it. -
@ Sl comment
O.o sry I misread your post then. Disregard what I said about SL then.
@ Hypothesis
Any ideas on how to display it?
It would help some of the other players believe it. As I don't think many people do at the moment.
well it's common sense once you know it's DPS isn't very high... it's probably possible but it would take lots of explaining and time. I am not doing something like that because to get facts on it would be very hard.
![UK]Dave](https://forum.z8games.com/uploads/customavatars/41/navatar_6182241.gif){kind=avatar}
, which is ofc opinion based. But all SMGs are definitely lower than most of the main rifles (not winch) or AWM. 
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