Would all the room hosts do what I did?

iAchy

GhostArch wrote: »

That is what we supposed to do. You have give me some example that mislead me. You said you might be a player just play for fun and not care about other things. That is what I hate to see.



When I said apparent hackers, you should know what I mean. 1. You can see some tag under sea level in your team, 2. The normal player's best killing rate is far from the hackers --- we may have lucky time, but it normally can not continue for too long. While the hackers will keep the killing rate for a long time. If this still can not cause your attention. I have nothing to say.

According to my replay, almost all the underground is near the enemy's base. They have best angle there. And sometimes you should pay attention to the player who shoot at walls. Sometimes they are just testing spray pattern. But sometimes someone have other reason to keep doing it, you know it when you see the kills.

Remember, I only did kick the team when it is obviously that they would not kick a hacker. If the hacker is somewhat hard to know, I would not do it.

We might need a general definition of what is apparent hacking, but that is a trivial compared to the whole idea.




Still the argument is focus on the definition of apparent hacks, you might ignored this word in my starting post.

Why you are the reason? If u keep playing the game without noticing anything abnormal --- especially in the case you can have the fun and can not notice hackers when they are in your team, that is problem. Hacker like to be your teammate, because if they don't bother you, you will not bother them, both of you have fun there.

Again, it is from your misleading example.



So if hacker bothers you, you still cares. Combined with your statement that you almost always mute the chat and normally would just have fun there, it create a terrible impression. You can evaluate if someone told you so.



That is the attitude I want to change. If everyone do the same, hacker will be happy. If we don't fight, haker would not go away. If we are not fight as a group, we can not win.

I am trying to create some influence to the player base (z8 might do it easier with any ribbon, mission, or something like that, the problem caused is relative small than the hacking problem itself), I want them to learn the rule that if they are not belong to this group, they will be classified as other group. If they want to be treated with fair, they need to do the correct thing.

If you quit the game when you are host because of hacker, I will be totally disappointed. Come on, when the right falls into some unknown kids, you might abuse it in another way. But when you are abusing it, at least you create some influence. If all the room has the same rule, every new player would consider to vote, because otherwise, they might be kicked -- for example, 10 games.

Normally the first thing I do after each game, is team hopping for the top position in your team. With that easily to abused power, I can have the player who think they can benefit from haker learn something.

But I really think the host should be able to see the all the players who had joined match. Because hackers are those who we want to punish, but they always run faster than those idiots who would not vote and would not leave.



Suggestion taken. I was in rage because this is the second time you ask for my in game name. And because all you previous example used seems passive and even selfish to me.

When they don't know what to do, you should push them to do the right thing, when you have the power.

Hells_Judge wrote: »

Dude, when I play CF I just want to have some fun in my spare time, yet I have to cope with the lag/lag spikes from my shared connection, the host error, the hack tool detected error, the disconnection, the hackers and CF bugs of all kinds. Sometimes it's just too much so I stop giving a ****. I just join a game, start fragging and don't care about the rest.

Don't try to lecture me about this behaviour, I play CF for fun and it's not my job to take care of hackers. Besides, from my 2 years experience of this game, I know that whatever we do hackers will come back in full force. Report ? Tried many times, works at best on 1 out of ~10 hackers (never worked for me and I'm talking about the very obvious ones). Kicking ? Never works on them, but works fine on me and other legit players.

I'm not saying that in those moments I don't kick a hacker when I see one, I'm just saying that I may not notice them.



Listen, if, like it happened to me yesterday, a guy start multi-killing with micro-Galil to the extent I can't even kill one guy (they all died before they could get out of spawn), of course I kick him.
But sometimes it's not that obvious. The guy has one shot but aim like a noob, so, unless you are the one getting killed, you can't say for sure. I can't kick those types of hacker unless I stop playing and follow them to investigate thoroughly.
Again, when I come to play for fun, I won't do it, it's not my job.



I don't mute the chat, I simply don't read it sometimes.
When you have people hackusing you or other legit players, when you have macro spammers, when you have people that start to discuss (usually not in english), you can't read every single line of the chat, not in the very fast paced gameplay of a TD. So, again sometimes, I miss some information about hackers or demand to kick them.



It's good you still have the will to fight. I've been fighting for 2 years, what changed ? The community worsened, the QQ is stronger than ever, the kick vote abuses are legion and the hackers are still there. Don't ask me to keep doing something that never worked while I'm just here to have fun.

If you like going to a park but are always bothered by drunken hobo, what do you do ? You ask them to go or call the police to do something about them.
After the 100th call and nothing changed, you logically come to the conclusion that it's useless. So you either stop going to that park or don't give a **** about the b*****ds anymore and try to enjoy the park despite them.



None of these guys got banned, not even one (I checked their profile frequently), and it was back in the time report wasn't as used as it is probably now (if only because there was less players). I checked some of them today (those that didn't change their name) and last play dates are in march/april of 2011... I reported them several months ago, one shot + aimbot hackers so obvious they would have kicked themselves if that was possible, and they are still there.

I can't be arsed to keep track of all the hackers I report + the corresponding replay, so that I can report them again and again until it works.
There's just no incentive to do so and I don't have the time : it can take several minutes watching the replay to see where the hack is obvious to describe it at best as possible, it takes me 5 min to upload a replay since we can't cut/compress them, and if there's multiple hackers, you have to RE-upload it, and then you have to think about reporting hacker again after 1-2 weeks.



I don't remember ever asking you your in-game name, that would have been stupid since it's in your signature and I learned reading more than 20 years ago.

____________________

Conclusion : I agree that we should kick hackers whenever we see one, no problem about that. I just disagree with the whole "you didn't kick him, so you must support hackers or like them thus I kick you from the room" thing. I don't think it will make people think or change their way of handling hackers. They will at best rage against the host that kicked them, at worst don't give a **** and go play in another room.

I agree with these 2.

GhostArch

Hells_Judge wrote: »

I play CF for fun and it's not my job to take care of hackers.

Kicking ? Never works on them, but works fine on me and other legit players.

Just a suggestion. I know most the forum community wants fair play, so once you are the host and with the power, do whatever you think is right. I think my way works somehow, I will keep doing it. You think your is better, do it. So you know the vote system failed too? Just use your way to make it work again.

The vote system's effectiveness depends on the community. I remember when I said "The community is rotten", you are one of the opposite dudes who think I was wrong. Now you said that community is worsen, but you still think it's not my job to take care of hackers --- that is another sign of rotten The problem is, we have too many these players in the forum. And we have too many hackers outside forum. Guys in forum marks themselves as decent and pros, they do or did complain the vote kick system, but no one want to do anything to change it.

Yes it's z8's job to take care of hackers, to turn the players on to fight hackers. If they don't do it, we either find our way to do it, or we push them to do it (this is the forum' power), or we just all leave the game. Keep sour but would not try something is a fail.

Hells_Judge wrote: »

But sometimes it's not that obvious.
Again, when I come to play for fun, I won't do it, it's not my job.

Please read my method again, I only mentioned that for the apparent hack, the way can be applied. If it is not obvious hack, I would not bother, because as I said, I can even start a vote just to smooth the complain on the other side, so that if they ask again, I would say we already did that and most players think he is not.
But when the hack is obvious, it is your responsibility to kick him, if you don't, you can have the benefit of the room.
The situation is lots of players would not do what they should do. So we need some extreme method to change it.

Hells_Judge wrote: »

I simply don't read it sometimes.
So, again sometimes, I miss some information about hackers or demand to kick them.

Neither do I read all the things.
But if I was kicked because host give me the reason for I have not start a vote against hacker on my side, I would not argue.
I was kicked many times by host, either as hacker or totally have no reason. So I can take it more, especially now there is at least a sound reason.

Now, most of the opponents will automatic leave the game after I said punish BL for not kick hacker. So they know my rule now. And if we can add them to the temp 10 game ban list, they would know it better.

The victim is a small percentage, and these people, like you, already by unfairly treated lots of times, so if it is for a good reason, you might consider to be unfairly treated again.

Hells_Judge wrote: »

It's good you still have the will to fight.
The community worsened.
The QQ is stronger than ever.
The kick vote abuses are legion and the hackers are still there. Don't ask me to keep doing something that never worked while I'm just here to have fun.

There are too many hackers, I feel legit player is out numbered in some rooms. If we don't fight, they would not disappear automatically.

All the facts are facts, but all start from 1 point, players don't insist fair play any more. So more hackers, more QQers about hackers, and more failed kick for hacker, more abusive kick for legit players. I have mentioned several times, z8 has not tried to lead the community in the right way. There are many ways they can give legit player hope, give those who about to hack warns, and give the hacker an alert. They don't, they daily mission and event are leading the player to rank, to gain ribbon, ---- none of them are meaningful compared to getting rid of hackers.

If you think to kick an obvious hacker is too much, prepared to be kicked from my room. I want everyone played in my room know the rule.

As the start of this reply, if you think I am wrong, just do what you think is right when you are a host.

When things get worse, if everyone decides there is no solution, things will not change. It will get worse and worse.

So just think about it, when there is something you have not tried, would you try it or would just wait thing get worse.

About hackers report, I know the problem, but I only have 4 instances. I don't know if hacker get bothered and quit the game (before to my imagination, hacking would be boring very quickly ---- if you kill without skill, it is nothing different to ask you to keep press left button).

You want to let z8 to do something, you have to push them. In the forum some people just understand z8's difficulty too much. But I would normally doubt the problem. Replay system need to be updated for a long time, but after we have crystal gun, pink gun, and maybe till water gun, it would not be solved. So when Saidin says his 100+ posts about hacks, I know he stays in April 1st all the year.

Now just report the player when they have bar. AND ASK Z8 TO ANSWER THE STATUS.
BTW, we are talking about what the host should do, without the help of z8. We need not to report hackers if we can vote kick him from every room ---- if so, the vote system works, and most gamer will feel happy because the game is totally ruined.

Hells_Judge wrote: »

I don't remember ever asking you your in-game name, that would have been stupid since it's in your signature and I learned reading more than 20 years ago.

____________________

Conclusion : I agree that we should kick hackers whenever we see one, no problem about that. I just disagree with the whole "you didn't kick him, so you must support hackers or like them thus I kick you from the room" thing. I don't think it will make people think or change their way of handling hackers. They will at best rage against the host that kicked them, at worst don't give a **** and go play in another room.

Thread "The community is rotten", many jumped out to point their fingers (all kinds of ) to me. You are one of them, but you have not use the middle finger yet.

At that time, I don't use signature, because the avatar always have my IGN, I think it is stupid to have it write again.

I did add the signature because you asked, I know someone can read but would not figure out


=========================================

Suggestion:

1. Do whatever you think is right.
2. If get kicked for some good reason, don't complain.
3. If you are the host, consider to do something that can change if you want.
4. If you would not do it, no one would complain that you are a bad host.

Conclusion:

I can not expect you to do it

GhostArch

DevLegion wrote: »

Well, it is not the vote kick system that admin should change, but the CrossFire players . I mean, like punish abusive kicks.
For exemple, they could choose some "moderators In game", a high number of In game moderators, bsed on confidence, people admins can trust, and choose like 500-700 Moderators, old players, ESL/WOGL players that we're sure they're trusted, and active players, and allow them to kick players when they wan it, or make their vote count like 5 votes (or I don't know), or allow them to ban players from a server, for a period of time, or ban him from all the servers, for like 15 minutes, twice a day, or something like that.

That would be cool, that would make people change. And if moderators abuse of their powers, then the Admins just take them of, and kick them for a period or 7 days or more.

it is not the vote kick system that admin should change, but the CrossFire players

That is the point. I am trying to do the first step. To make most player really they should vote kick hackers. When this is successful, we would ask them don't kick those who did nothing wrong.

To ask them to do too much in one time might not work.