This is why we don't get nice things ;p
One may wonder why hacks are so rampant and in game, no one really deals with them save for the occasional good natured player who wants to clear a room. However, the way our version of CF has turned into is a profit driven dog eat dog world where the only thing that matters is winning. At any cost.
People complain about the hackers, but really, I bet most of the time, as long as they aren't on the receiving end, it doesn't bother you quite as much does it? Its actually rare to see a hacker get kicked. Why? Because its all a mind set. Most people feel 'hey, they wouldn't do it for me' and probably feel the others deserve it. Or, just want to gain from it. After all, its a pretty simple math equation.
-Hack > Skill
-Time X Games / Hacks
-Faster Games = Faster Missions = Profit.
-Hacks on your side have a 8:1 less of a risk of you being owned by the other team.
-If they do raise a kick vote, 100% guaranteed that its not you on the block. Allowing you to keep your good score.
Think about why you see a kick vote denied so often. Almost all the time, the opposing team makes sure to hit that f11 as they get cut down. The upside is, they still get the little gp and xp for their time playing as the rounds end quickly in a matter of moments. The problem however, is the side who has the hacker. Winning is important, and there's no penalty for keeping a hacker in is there? No laws, no issues and.... No proof of who voted on what. So they can let their conscious blame it on 'others' for not having them kicked.
Of course, if a player is actually legitimate, things go differently. There's no way he could get good scores, so that simply makes him a terrible hacker and because he isn't ending the game soon enough for this 'fast paced shooter' (thats what you wanted right? what a quicker way to end a game than in 30 seconds using vip aimbot? ;p huur hurr). So gets kicked.
People ask, whether the vote kick system is to blame. No, its not. Its the people. but in all actual fact, is the vote kick useful or pointless? In a game where players are calm, collected, cooperative and generally well faring, the need of even a kick vote system is unneeded. And if a hacker does arise, the majority of those players would swiftly prompt to remove them without question. Otherwise it wouldn't really be needed for anything else. (Oh wait! I know of such a place like this! A shame its not our version!)
In ours, its even more useless. It doesn't really kick hackers as its intended. Its a tool of rage, jealousy, protection from those who are doing wrong, and more instead. What is its purpose? It would be easier to remove desertion penalties and allow players to leave the room than deal with such problems. The kick vote is a slap in the face to anyone else. But again, its the people. Not the game.
But a simple system, abused by people who think a company is encompassed by greed, but don't realize they are themselves. Immersed in a world of capitalism. Profit and gain is all that's cared about, and the complaining only comes when they aren't getting it. Giving up respect, fun and everything that makes games, games to achieve this. And if you think its only specific groups of people in the world, you'd be wrong. Take a step back and look at yourself and think long and hard. Who comes first?
Are you a winner, if your the only one that plays a game?
People complain about the hackers, but really, I bet most of the time, as long as they aren't on the receiving end, it doesn't bother you quite as much does it? Its actually rare to see a hacker get kicked. Why? Because its all a mind set. Most people feel 'hey, they wouldn't do it for me' and probably feel the others deserve it. Or, just want to gain from it. After all, its a pretty simple math equation.
-Hack > Skill
-Time X Games / Hacks
-Faster Games = Faster Missions = Profit.
-Hacks on your side have a 8:1 less of a risk of you being owned by the other team.
-If they do raise a kick vote, 100% guaranteed that its not you on the block. Allowing you to keep your good score.
Think about why you see a kick vote denied so often. Almost all the time, the opposing team makes sure to hit that f11 as they get cut down. The upside is, they still get the little gp and xp for their time playing as the rounds end quickly in a matter of moments. The problem however, is the side who has the hacker. Winning is important, and there's no penalty for keeping a hacker in is there? No laws, no issues and.... No proof of who voted on what. So they can let their conscious blame it on 'others' for not having them kicked.
Of course, if a player is actually legitimate, things go differently. There's no way he could get good scores, so that simply makes him a terrible hacker and because he isn't ending the game soon enough for this 'fast paced shooter' (thats what you wanted right? what a quicker way to end a game than in 30 seconds using vip aimbot? ;p huur hurr). So gets kicked.
People ask, whether the vote kick system is to blame. No, its not. Its the people. but in all actual fact, is the vote kick useful or pointless? In a game where players are calm, collected, cooperative and generally well faring, the need of even a kick vote system is unneeded. And if a hacker does arise, the majority of those players would swiftly prompt to remove them without question. Otherwise it wouldn't really be needed for anything else. (Oh wait! I know of such a place like this! A shame its not our version!)
In ours, its even more useless. It doesn't really kick hackers as its intended. Its a tool of rage, jealousy, protection from those who are doing wrong, and more instead. What is its purpose? It would be easier to remove desertion penalties and allow players to leave the room than deal with such problems. The kick vote is a slap in the face to anyone else. But again, its the people. Not the game.
But a simple system, abused by people who think a company is encompassed by greed, but don't realize they are themselves. Immersed in a world of capitalism. Profit and gain is all that's cared about, and the complaining only comes when they aren't getting it. Giving up respect, fun and everything that makes games, games to achieve this. And if you think its only specific groups of people in the world, you'd be wrong. Take a step back and look at yourself and think long and hard. Who comes first?
Are you a winner, if your the only one that plays a game?
Comments
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Max_Skillz wrote: »Ok, so what is it you want to discuss? Or were you just making a point?
Well, its really an open discussion. Guess what I could drive at here is: What do we plan to do about it?
but generally it was a blunt point really. Want this game to be as good as CF CN, where seeing the kick vote window being necessary is screenshot worthy rare. lol -
but generally it was a blunt point really. Want this game to be as good as CF CN, where seeing the kick vote window being necessary is screenshot worthy rare. lol
I fear that is a dream which will probably never happen. But, even so, we down in the valley can still aspire to reach the city on the hill if only those a little further up could set an example. -
I fear that is a dream which will probably never happen. But, even so, we down in the valley can still aspire to reach the city on the hill if only those a little further up could set an example.
lol, this post made me smile. Did you quote something? Or was that you? -
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Your spot on bro. I seem to have a God given nack for analogies.
That's awesome.
Well Kelathe, I've gone over it in my head a ton and have done so in the past. I still don't have much of an answer on the subject. I'll be sure to post If I come up with any ideas. -
Max_Skillz wrote: »That's awesome.
Well Kelathe, I've gone over it in my head a ton and have done so in the past. I still don't have much of an answer on the subject. I'll be sure to post If I come up with any ideas.
Haha, it is rather hard to think of something regarding this problem isn't it? The thing is, it can start with an individual, but it needs to be worked with a larger group, in order for it to catch on or be effective. No matter how great an idea may be, it needs support.
Which is probably why it seems hard. Its something 'we' have to think of and do. A collective so to speak. -
vote system is good but people use it to kick skilled players and not hackers.
I start playing GhostMode about 9mounts ago and i spend a lot of time to have tactics to kill ghosts... but i cant play because always I see that i hack so they kick me...usually misions on GM take me about 20min when is "5game" or win... but its imposible to do it so quicly kids are crying when i have stats 20 to 0 so kick me... So guys tell me how I can play?? i must specifically get to dead?? its frivolous!!
I hate hakers no matter whitch side they are, me or enemy. They must be kicked and reported... but why skilled players cant quietly play? -
Very good points. However... removing the kick vote will not solve all the problems. What happens if there IS a hacker? With no kick-vote... what do you do?
Removing the kick vote woud cause more problems than benefits... It is simply the community abusing it for the points Kelathe pointed out.
Children... raging that someone is doing better or being ignorant enough to think a legit player is hacking. Mature players are a hell of alot more intelligent and can easily tell between a hacker and a good player.
And if it isnt for the reasons above, then its for next to no reason at all.
An example of this is when me and Rory were playing in a GM with some polish players. We were both kicked without even noticing... noone was screaming F11.
It really is purely a lack of respect for other players. They see it as a name... a character on the screen... no a person wanting to play a few games before work, or school/college/university or to play for fun. Why should they care if youre out of the game?
In the end it is pure immaturity. Generally I find that the people that DONT kick when theres a good player in the room are people who speak English as their first language (or speak it well) and are generally above the age or 15-16 -
Foreigners are the ones mainly abusing the kick vote. Lets face it, there are more foreigners playing this game than actual N/A players (Dunno how the situation is in the uk). Alot of these foreigners carry ping over 100 and when they go up against the low pingers they rage due to the fact that they cant reg which makes them spam hack in hopes a foreigner on the opposite side will help him out and they usually do. Due to the language barriers no one can explain themselves or try to be friendly to reduce the chances of being kicked. Ping options on rooms would reduce the kick abuse alot since you would be able to communicate with the people in the room.
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[MOD]Giggletron wrote: »Very good points. However... removing the kick vote will not solve all the problems. What happens if there IS a hacker? With no kick-vote... what do you do?
Removing the kick vote woud cause more problems than benefits... It is simply the community abusing it for the points Kelathe pointed out.
Children... raging that someone is doing better or being ignorant enough to think a legit player is hacking. Mature players are a hell of alot more intelligent and can easily tell between a hacker and a good player.
And if it isnt for the reasons above, then its for next to no reason at all.
An example of this is when me and Rory were playing in a GM with some polish players. We were both kicked without even noticing... noone was screaming F11.
It really is purely a lack of respect for other players. They see it as a name... a character on the screen... no a person wanting to play a few games before work, or school/college/university or to play for fun. Why should they care if youre out of the game?
In the end it is pure immaturity. Generally I find that the people that DONT kick when theres a good player in the room are people who speak English as their first language (or speak it well) and are generally above the age or 15-16
Your Completely Right!
Today i was playing GM. There was a good player in there with a score of 39-11. He was playing on BL.
Score was 11-11 (13), Then some guy on the same team trys to kick him. I said f12 and all that.
I asked him why he did, he said because its fun. Its Not fun to kick pro players with a good score at the end of a game. Its Childish.
This game went on... Then a butter bar who i thought was a legit player tryed to kick the pro player again!
And it got approved. I asked him why he said... Kickings part Of the Game.
It angers me that people are that ***ed up. Its true when u say it all comes down to maturity.
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[MOD]Giggletron wrote: »Very good points. However... removing the kick vote will not solve all the problems. What happens if there IS a hacker? With no kick-vote... what do you do?
Removing the kick vote woud cause more problems than benefits... It is simply the community abusing it for the points Kelathe pointed out.
Children... raging that someone is doing better or being ignorant enough to think a legit player is hacking. Mature players are a hell of alot more intelligent and can easily tell between a hacker and a good player.
And if it isnt for the reasons above, then its for next to no reason at all.
An example of this is when me and Rory were playing in a GM with some polish players. We were both kicked without even noticing... noone was screaming F11.
It really is purely a lack of respect for other players. They see it as a name... a character on the screen... no a person wanting to play a few games before work, or school/college/university or to play for fun. Why should they care if youre out of the game?
In the end it is pure immaturity. Generally I find that the people that DONT kick when theres a good player in the room are people who speak English as their first language (or speak it well) and are generally above the age or 15-16
100% true removing it wont help anything...but putting some modifications on it will...only host can kick...only 1 vote kick per person...instead of it resetting wen someone is finaly kicked...im sick of being ina room with abunch of pubstar clan nubs that want there team in so they kick u wen ur doing AMAZING...just modify ur vote kick settings a bit and call it a day... -
I don't want to appear to be the downer, but I believe there is little we can do to help the overall case in NA CF. The forum community is already a minute portion of the playerbase, and the portion of forumers who would be willing to commit to educating others, smaller again.
The bottom line is that the game has attracted a target audience that is both young, and geographically diverse. This results in communication barriers, and a lack of maturity. The Internet and free gaming both draw children into online communities way before they have learnt general disciplines and manners related to such contexts. Many will only change as they mature in age, and many will never get the message, perhaps coming from a different background where global communication is still something largely untouched.
As the game gets more publicity, more problems will arise. Perhaps we can aim to tackle the issue in a small community. Target a specific channel perhaps, target a specific demographic. I don't believe the community will turn around in months, or even years solely from efforts of a small denomination. I do believe we can make a small difference in some places, and occasionally, it's the little things that count. -
[MOD]Giggletron wrote: »Very good points. However... removing the kick vote will not solve all the problems. What happens if there IS a hacker? With no kick-vote... what do you do?
Without having to worry about honor (which could be removed), and without having to lose your GP/EXP (which could be rectified) you could just leave the game.
That's how to prevent hackers farming people and to prevent hackers from playing, if the above was implemented then hackers would get tired very fast as noone will play with them.
Kick vote actually keeps them in the game as the hacker knows its often hard for 2 teams of imbeciles to muster up 10 votes between them to kick him and hackers also know many will f12 for the lolz:rolleyes:
This would enable all to play except hackers and who cares really if the hackers continues farming idiots that will stay rather than leaving? As long as you got your GP/EXP and can join another game and immediately rid yourself of the hacker then GG.
And this does permit others to play without little brats QQ'in, kicking, besides you still can report hackers:) -
[MOD]Giggletron wrote: »An example of this is when me and Rory were playing in a GM with some polish players. We were both kicked without even noticing... noone was screaming F11.
You aren't the only one to get treated like rubbish by Polish players. It happens to me too. You frag the same Polish player 3 times in a row- you get kicked. You headshot them 3 times in a row- you get kicked. You disagree with them that the player using a beretta isn't hacking but playing good- you get kicked. A friend of theirs wants to join but the room is full- you get kicked.
They show us foreigners as much respect as Brazilians do to north Americans. That's the way I see it. -
People ask, whether the vote kick system is to blame. No, its not. Its the people.
DIS!!!!!!!!
Everything that's wrong with this game is the fault of the people. Glitches? They weren't intentional on the part of the devs...some kids just found and abused them. Hacking? Its also the fault of the people for using it. They have a choice and they decide to choose the wrong one.
Same with the kick system. I think it's pretty good (besides the fact that people that dont vote count as F12 and they should change it) but people abuse it >.<
They should give you all the exp, gp, kills and deaths if you leave or get kicked from a game. It's bs when you spend about 30 minutes in a game then get kicked by some crying loser...it just makes you waste your time. -
[MOD]Giggletron wrote: »Very good points. However... removing the kick vote will not solve all the problems. What happens if there IS a hacker? With no kick-vote... what do you do?
Removing the kick vote woud cause more problems than benefits... It is simply the community abusing it for the points Kelathe pointed out.
Children... raging that someone is doing better or being ignorant enough to think a legit player is hacking. Mature players are a hell of alot more intelligent and can easily tell between a hacker and a good player.
And if it isnt for the reasons above, then its for next to no reason at all.
An example of this is when me and Rory were playing in a GM with some polish players. We were both kicked without even noticing... noone was screaming F11.
It really is purely a lack of respect for other players. They see it as a name... a character on the screen... no a person wanting to play a few games before work, or school/college/university or to play for fun. Why should they care if youre out of the game?
In the end it is pure immaturity. Generally I find that the people that DONT kick when theres a good player in the room are people who speak English as their first language (or speak it well) and are generally above the age or 15-16
Simple answer Giggle. Leave. The problem with that currently is that the penalty leaving ensues. Not only do you lose gp/xp, but you also get a desertion which affects honour (personally I pride in having Average or better honour still). I'm sure that even if it was just removing the desertion penalties alot of people wouldn't mind leaving overall. Though, the gp/xp keeping for that duration might be more beneficial. Time played is still time played, regardless of how long your in there. The only thing they would lose out in such instances would be games/wins/kills for missions and badges and such.
Personally... I think there should be a patch for like 1 month or so, to test what it would be like without the kick vote. See how many handle it. Just as a test suggestion. People should get into the mind set that it is a 'last resort' thing, not a weapon to remove anyone better than you. Once they realize they don't have this power, they have simply two options. Suck it up and play like we're supposed to, or leave. That's all it takes. Games like Modern Warfare if I remember don't even have a kick option. Security aside, they don't complain about the lack of such.
But your quite right though Giggle about the general players that don't kick needlessly. There's a few that usually disregard such, but its generally few in between. I've seen some rare exceptions on either spectrum though, but disrespect is rampant for the negative nature for this game in any instance.
The saying for Crossfire these days is "If you can't beat 'em, kick 'em." -
Personally... I think there should be a patch for like 1 month or so, to test what it would be like without the kick vote.
I don't know how a 'test' would work though, if we are relying on feed back from noobs, as they'll just rage "oh I seen about 547 hackers today and I couldn't kick anyone, one guy even did 3 head shots one after another" - unfortunately.
Something like this would require a proper decision at the highest level only and no guidance from the users.
Just look at the forum there are noobs running around saying "only hakrs get kicked so yeah you hack":p -
UKDissident wrote: »I don't know how a 'test' would work though, if we are relying on feed back from noobs, as they'll just rage "oh I seen about 547 hackers today and I couldn't kick anyone, one guy even did 3 head shots one after another" - unfortunately.
Something like this would require a proper decision at the highest level only and no guidance from the users.
Just look at the forum there are noobs running around saying "only hakrs get kicked so yeah you hack":p
Its not a test to see if there would be a reduction of hackers, but more of a community tolerance. After a while chances are the kick vote would be re-implemented covertly. People will probably report more than kick now that its the way to deal with hackers. Instead of kick and forget. We want them to report. The more they say the numbers are, we will respond with 'how many reports of those hackers did you send in?' Besides, as said, they can leave, still report and so on. There's no excuse.
But it is a very touchy issue indeed, one to be treaded on carefully, but if we can get the community into the mindset where kick voting is not a tool of rage and that hackers are something we CAN ignore, then we should. Even if it means doing so forcefully.
The game wasn't always like this and the kids are taking it for granted and need to learn their place. If this game was for immarity it would be rated ages 3 and up. Not 13. -
About the question of maturity, how to solve it is what i ask, anyone has any idea that would help? =/
Lead by example, and like in life, maturity comes with experience of the good and bad one's action has on situations to reflect upon. Currently, they see no error in their ways and thats the problem. As a community, we can only lead by example, and obviously ignore or remove them if they can't respect such.
The rest is purely game mechanic additions to help that.
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