Clan ranking.
1. I know there have already been many threads about this
2. I'm making a new one anyway
Basic idea: make a ladder system based on clan wars (keeping the current system as a secondary ranking is optional, just don't let activity remain the main base for ranking). This would actually give a better view on the skill of clans (in CW that is)
2 views on how to make such a ladder:
Discuss pls ^^
Pros or cons of one (or both) of the suggestions, other suggestions, global remarks on the system are all welcome.
2. I'm making a new one anyway
Basic idea: make a ladder system based on clan wars (keeping the current system as a secondary ranking is optional, just don't let activity remain the main base for ranking). This would actually give a better view on the skill of clans (in CW that is)
2 views on how to make such a ladder:
Actually I suggested this and a few people liked it. I said just have one based on Scrim, but farming team cow in beta wouldn't work because it woould be a little more in depth than im 16-0 and you're 15-0 so im better. More along the lines of If A > B and B > C then A > C.
If you beat top clans you jump them and so on, keep track of every scrim. So beating 0-100 TEAM C0W every 10 minutes wouldn't mean anything for this rank. This would be your "Power Rank" based on scrim record. Then you could have an activity rank like the one we use now. Just to show how often your clan is on. But punish farming in some way. Smiley if you're caught?
Phillybear wrote: »I was more thinking in the way of a system that gave you points for each scrim won: beat a clan that's better ranked than you = get more points, beat a lower clan = less points (with a maximum possible gain). I doubt the top clans are willing to let themselves get farmed in scrims
Maybe we should make a new suggestion thread about this...
Discuss pls ^^
Pros or cons of one (or both) of the suggestions, other suggestions, global remarks on the system are all welcome.
Comments
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Couldn't fix my typo? lol jk. I like both ideas though, they could each be implemented, but would Z8 take the time needed to fix this problem, they have no excuse. Xtrap is holding their ground when it comes to hackers so far. Now let's focus on another problem. The lack of a legit and gratifyiing ranking system. This could be it imho ^^
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What about "Elo rating system"?
Here is how it works in other game http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_ladder
And system itself (more in Theory) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
I've played Guild Wars and I can say that the system works pretty good, on top were skilled clans and not the farming ones
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Shiningami wrote: »What about "Elo rating system"?
Here is how it works in other game http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_ladder
And system itself (more in Theory) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
I've played Guild Wars and I can say that the system works pretty good, on top were skilled clans and not the farming ones
It looks like a pretty good system as well Certainly shows more than the current one -
Shiningami wrote: »What about "Elo rating system"?
Here is how it works in other game http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_ladder
And system itself (more in Theory) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
I've played Guild Wars and I can say that the system works pretty good, on top were skilled clans and not the farming ones
So confusing. Maybe the techies at Z8 would know that stuff. Looks good. As long as it can't be farmed to gain #1. D= -
1) not all clans clan war.
2) illegal programs
3) clans would get smaller only letting in good players
3B) the best 'clan' would have like 7 people in it.
4)the more you play the higher you get which is the same as the system now except moved to a different server.
5) clans specialize in different modes.
6) clans would be afriad to face other good clans so they don't lose the rank.
7) clans sending alt accounts into other clans then purposely losing to their main account's clan.
should i continue?
maybe a new system is needed, this is not it however. -
MasterBrett wrote: »1) not all clans clan war.
2) illegal programs
3) clans would get smaller only letting in good players
3B) the best 'clan' would have like 7 people in it.
4)the more you play the higher you get which is the same as the system now except moved to a different server.
5) clans specialize in different modes.
6) clans would be afriad to face other good clans so they don't lose the rank.
7) clans sending alt accounts into other clans then purposely losing to their main account's clan.
should i continue?
maybe a new system is needed, this is not it however.
1) If clan dont want clan war, it wouldnt be ranked, thats all - any problem? Ranking shows (or at least should) which clan is better, and that's the main idea of ranking, so clan wars are the best way to check it
2) Huh? But what illegal programs have to do with ranking system? hacking is different problem and it will affect every ranking system, no matter how good
3) Well - yeah, the good and skilled clans will let in only good players - but trust me, the worse ones will exist as well and there will be place for everyone - in conclusion everyone will be in clan proper to his skill - is it bad?
3B) I did not get that point.... is it wrong? Quality is more important than quantity. And in current system its not. In "Elo" it is. Isnt it funny for you that the 1st clan have ~100 members?
4) Not really - few clan wars a day is enough to get #1
5) 6) 7) It is needed to rebuild current clan war system - You have 2 options:
1st - You get your team, choose your favourite map, then click button clan war - and the system will get you automatically to the team that is nearest to your rank and have same amount of current players - and the map will be choosen randomly - between your map and yours oponent (or another idea: 1st round your map, 2nd opponents map), and by the way it will be easier to find 2nd team for clan match than it is now
2nd - Practise mode - you choose which clan do you want to stand against, and you are playing with them when they agree, however - you won't get ranking points from that match - just to prevent farming (alts in other clan)
So it make it almost impossible to farm. To conclude - i know that this is not the perfect system, and i dont want to prove that, but it's like with democracy - it is stupid like hell, but so far no1 devised better one -
the farmers will still farm? but then in cw ? same problem dun dun dunnn
How? It isnt possible to farm in cw - if they will play alot - they for sure will lose some, coz system choose opponents - and if they will play alot and wont lose - thats mean they are the bestwouldnt work ud get the nooobs in each clan that will just mess it all up.
So you have to choose your members carefully + Only leader and lieutenants can start cw, what about that? -
the farmers will still farm? but then in cw ? same problem dun dun dunnn
I agree with ownedbyme, the farmers would only scrim with their animals (cows); therefore, rule out the use of skill!
It dones't matter anymore...it only counts in the real tournaments...do you see the farmers winning these tournaments, no.
Not to say that the teams farming have no skilled members, it just makes a bad reputation for them. -
1) That's why I suggested that they might keep the current system as a secondary ranking. Then the other clans will still have some rankings to play for. Also, if they don't clan war, there's no way you can determine their skillMasterBrett wrote: »1) not all clans clan war.
2) illegal programs
3) clans would get smaller only letting in good players
3B) the best 'clan' would have like 7 people in it.
4)the more you play the higher you get which is the same as the system now except moved to a different server.
5) clans specialize in different modes.
6) clans would be afriad to face other good clans so they don't lose the rank.
7) clans sending alt accounts into other clans then purposely losing to their main account's clan.
should i continue?
maybe a new system is needed, this is not it however.
2) Can be punished....both player and clan.
3) No need to make the clan smaller, just make intern rules about the clan wars. e.g.: main team plays the clans that are close in the ranking, secondary team plays against lower ranked clans.
3B) Rather a best clan with 7 characters than a best clan with 7 players, but 100 members....
4) If you keep losing, you won't get any higher. If you keep winning against low ranked teams, your rise should be too slow to compete with the big guys...
5) might be a problem indeed....
6) How about not losing points when you lose a fight? Not fighting another good clan will only mean they'll win the points from another team instead of from you.
7) see 3) How big is the chance that an alt, which is normally less active than a main account, will make it in the main team and can stay there?the farmers will still farm? but then in cw ? same problem dun dun dunnn
Make it so you can only get points for fighting a clan once or twice each day. Also, farming a certain clan will push them deeper in the rankings = almost no gain. I doubt top clans are willing to let themselves get farmed... -
i dunno... those r just 7 ideas that came into my head off the bat, i'm sure i could come up with 20 reasons...
as for 2) i meant this new system will encourage hacks. and the system as of now does not encourage. you get decent xp no matter how bad u do. and z8 doesn't and can't get find and ban all the hacking accounts.
and for the sending spys to other clans to destroy them, it doesnt take long to make a staff sarg with a good k/d then going into clan wars and getting owned on purpose. anyone who plays EA sport games or 2k games knows that the leaderboards are so unfair. it is much like this system.
having the top clan with 7 people is just.... it's not even a clan.. its a small team.
but let's look at the positives of this new system... i can't think of any... why even try to put it in? it's not like it's going to turn out the way you think.. -
MasterBrett wrote: »i dunno... those r just 7 ideas that came into my head off the bat, i'm sure i could come up with 20 reasons...
as for 2) i meant this new system will encourage hacks. and the system as of now does not encourage. you get decent xp no matter how bad u do. and z8 doesn't and can't get find and ban all the hacking accounts.
and for the sending spys to other clans to destroy them, it doesnt take long to make a staff sarg with a good k/d then going into clan wars and getting owned on purpose. anyone who plays EA sport games or 2k games knows that the leaderboards are so unfair. it is much like this system.
having the top clan with 7 people is just.... it's not even a clan.. its a small team.
but let's look at the positives of this new system... i can't think of any... why even try to put it in? it's not like it's going to turn out the way you think..
For 2) harder punishment for clans (like losing a great load of points) would discourage the use of hacks (in top clans then, noobs would probably still download them to look good)
The spies, idk about them...
In any system based on clan wars it's only a small team that matters. Even now we say that Lifeline is better than Trio based on a fight between 4 or 5 members....
Positive sides? How about giving a ranking based on competitive fights instead of based on time spent on the game? A clan filled with bottomfraggers can easily rank higher than a clan with decent/good players, just because they run around in game all day. Not a very representative ranking system if you ask me.... -
yea i know. but there's just so many problems this would start and wouldn't solve any of the current ones. clans that play a lot are still going to have the advantage over clans that do not. u'd rank up faster. still not an improvement over current one.
also if you don't lose rank when you lose is bad. the better players from a top clan will just make a new clan on noob accounts, get a decent rank, then lose to their main characters clan... over and over
but if u do lose rank then the same thing happens except those people in the new clan on noob accounts would just play clan wars on that clan then decrease every other clan rank who they face. with their awesome players hidden behind a horrible rank
having 4-7 players in a clan and being the top is not how it is supposed to be. i think the tournaments are the way to find out who is the best. and the clan system is just a clan system that is all fair, aside from the farming.
like i said, it will never turn out with all the forum popular clans being on top. it's going to be some 10 no name clans on the first page and everybody is going to be like 'wtf how did they get there, i have never seen them before' and it's going to be because they cheated their way to the top.
oh and also after a fair amount of time, there is going to be 3/5 of the top 5 clans that are going to be the exact same people on different accounts lol... just like in the sport game rankings.
did i mention devs or z8 or whoever will lose out on money because people won't need to buy the extra 25 members ect? because only pro's are wanted. -
The good scrim teams didn't become good by playing 1 or 2 times a week... I guess they didn't start scrimming less because "we're already good anyway"MasterBrett wrote: »yea i know. but there's just so many problems this would start and wouldn't solve any of the current ones. clans that play a lot are still going to have the advantage over clans that do not. u'd rank up faster. still not an improvement over current one.
That's why I suggested to limit the amount of times you can win or lose points against 1 clan each day. (you should already make 10 other clans or so to farm effectively)MasterBrett wrote: »also if you don't lose rank when you lose is bad. the better players from a top clan will just make a new clan on noob accounts, get a decent rank, then lose to their main characters clan... over and over
True, but the same goes for filling your clan with alts to farm. Tournaments might be a good idea, but they have a limited amount of participating clans.MasterBrett wrote: »having 4-7 players in a clan and being the top is not how it is supposed to be. i think the tournaments are the way to find out who is the best.
ban?MasterBrett wrote: »like i said, it will never turn out with all the forum popular clans being on top. it's going to be some 10 no name clans on the first page and everybody is going to be like 'wtf how did they get there, i have never seen them before' and it's going to be because they cheated their way to the top.
That would take them a lot of daily scrims....But at least you would have skilled players at the topMasterBrett wrote: »oh and also after a fair amount of time, there is going to be 3/5 of the top 5 clans that are going to be the exact same people on different accounts lol... just like in the sport game rankings
edit: sorry if I seem a bit stubborn about this, but I just believe it might be better than the current system Also, I know the chance it'll change is small (Match results on the clan page are still "Coming soon"), but it doesn't hurt to try -
i'd like a new system too. and after a long thought out plan, this system could work. xtrap got my back and it would probably encourage me and my clan to take up clan wars. would require a fair amount of thinking and if they are even able to program the clan system to work like that could be worth it.
perhaps before that system is considered, it would be easier if they just made a way to stop farming. then people wouldnt complain too much about our inaccurate clan ranking system.
(i meant cheating their way to the top as in finding ways around fighting random clans in clan wars, not hacking) so wouldnt be bannable -
I hope that's not to make me shut upMasterBrett wrote: »i'd like a new system too. and after a long thought out plan, this system could work. xtrap got my back and it would probably encourage me and my clan to take up clan wars. would require a fair amount of thinking and if they are even able to program the clan system to work like that could be worth it. I know it still needs some/a lot of thinking, it's still pretty basic as it is now. Don't think I got what it takes to think it all out anyhow 
It would certainly stop the complaining (at least it should), but it still doesn't offer a representative rankingMasterBrett wrote: »perhaps before that system is considered, it would be easier if they just made a way to stop farming. then people wouldnt complain too much about our inaccurate clan ranking system.
Misunderstood that part, my bad. That might turn out to be a problem then....hopefully someone can find a way to avoid it; can't think of one myself right now.MasterBrett wrote: »(i meant cheating their way to the top as in finding ways around fighting random clans in clan wars, not hacking) so wouldnt be bannable
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